You can have a fight that's in character. Batman 'fighting' to test the limits of Superman's powers, for instance. A 'leaked' (likely fake) Batman v Superman synopsis suggested that; Batman would provoke, and fight Superman, and Superman would come out on top, with it all being Batman's test to see whether or not Superman would go all out and kill Batman. That way Batman gets a grasp of Superman's powers and his character.
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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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You can have a fight that's in character. Batman 'fighting' to test the limits of Superman's powers, for instance. A 'leaked' (likely fake) Batman v Superman synopsis suggested that; Batman would provoke, and fight Superman, and Superman would come out on top, with it all being Batman's test to see whether or not Superman would go all out and kill Batman. That way Batman gets a grasp of Superman's powers and his character.
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
This doesn't quite fly with me (mind the pun) but i'm not going to get heated over that in a movie that had way more problems.
Alandrus Sun
Banned
Yeah but who wants to sit through an entire credits sequence to see cool stuff, breh?
They should have a mid film intermission with trailers.
i mean
it's a bit like saying why kryptonians carry material that degrade their cells, essentially destroying themselves?
the answer is plot
That's not even an actual fight. People would get mad that the movie was hyped up as Batman v Superman and the fight wasn't even a real one.
Only way a Batman v Superman fight makes sense is if some mind control or doppelganger shenanigans are in place (which are always poorly written crutches). Both characters in sound mind and body would never actually fight each other.
If Batman wanted to test Superman's strength.. then he will just ask him and Superman will be like "ok".
That's probably the best way to do it and stay true to the characters. What you got wasn't really a fight anyway, it was one dude punching another dude who wanted out of the fight.
A comic book called Batman vs. Superman: The Greatest Battles came out recently. Two of the best battles, atleast as I saw it, we're both when superman was mind controlled. It's a weak plot device, but it can work if used in the right context. I mean, I didn't think that hulls battle with iron man in age of ultron was badly written, and that was the basic excuse there. If you right mind control into the story, it might be a transparent pretense as to what the purpose is, but that doesn't make it bad writing.
But otherwise, you're right. The real greatest battle was actually not a battle at all, but two kids discussing the fight. They tried to come up with reasons and in the end they couldn't. Every excuse was lame and made the hero look bad or like an idiot. When they're their true selves... Yeah, you're right, there aren't many situations where they'd willingly fight and try to kill each other. Their both decent people who want to help others, even if their methods are different. Batman and superman, in their right minds, are friends.
I would've prefer that 50 times over Batman actually wanting to murder Superman.
Most likely cut from the intro desert scene with Lois.
I mentioned in my post that the only way these two would actually fight was if mind control or doppelgangers shenanigans were at play. The mind control angle already happened in Hush with Poison Ivy mind controlling Superman.
Even people who write these comic books can't really find a good enough reason to have these two fight without making changes to their characters. The TDKR fight makes Superman look like a government lap dog when that's not what he is supposed to be.
batman and superman aren't acquaintances in this movie.
But you did get mind-control. Lex Luthor mind-controlled Batman to fight Superman.
Mind-control sucks. Batman fighting Superman with the intent of seeing the extent of his powers and putting him in his place (the latter being the reason for the fight in The Dark Knight Returns) portrays Batman a lot better. 'I'm going to put my foot on your neck, not because I want to kill you, but so that you know I could and remember I will if you ever fuck up'.
Mind-control sucks. Batman fighting Superman with the intent of seeing the extent of his powers and putting him in his place (the latter being the reason for the fight in The Dark Knight Returns) portrays Batman a lot better. 'I'm going to put my foot on your neck, not because I want to kill you, but so that you know I could and remember I will if you ever fuck up'.
BigBossVanzetti
Member
I think it's a solid 7.5 or 8 out of 10, and I strongly think that it was better than the last Avengers movie. Not great cinema or anything, but very entertaining. Scene on the mountain with Pa Kent spirit hit me in the gut emotionally more than anything else in the movie. Very sad, for anyone who has lost a parent.
I don't see how that matters.
I know, I'm just saying mind control isn't a bad reason, just a transparent one.
And yeah, I agree. Like I said in the other paragraph, when everything is normal, they're buddies. I wish we could see more of that.
Yeah, clear strong motivation to put down the alien...thrown away because their mothers have the same name and his mom is in trouble? Why does that hypothetical 1% chance that he might destroy the world reduce down to 0%? Bruce's motivations are bullshit because in any scenario based on his convictions, he would have put superman down. Instead we get an instant face turn. I call bullshit.
Discotheque
Banned
No the weird shit with Bruce was having that nightmare being the last straw for him going after superman. Everything else made sense, especially due to this being Bruce with his mental state at its lowest point. Hes not the rational and patient hero he once was. He's branding people ffs. Completely driven by emotion including fear. He gives no fucks and the next few films are his redemption.
Not only does weird fan service like that knightmare alienate general audience and critics (it's admirable that snyder didn't care tho I suppose) but it is a pacing killer AND paints superman out to be a shit
Flash literally told Bruce that superman is only morally tied to earth by Lois and/or his mom. He modeled his superman after Dr Manhattan
Not only does weird fan service like that knightmare alienate general audience and critics (it's admirable that snyder didn't care tho I suppose) but it is a pacing killer AND paints superman out to be a shit
Flash literally told Bruce that superman is only morally tied to earth by Lois and/or his mom. He modeled his superman after Dr Manhattan
if it's a mind controlled or doppelganger superman, why would bruce hold back if he has no relationship with him?
roflwaffles
Member
I think? Lex has files on all the Justice League - so he knows Wayne is Bats and Kent is Supes.
Discotheque
Banned
I never read that comic or played the game. But lmao the gall of snyder to make something that bleak canon.
And Matrix Reloaded before that.
Only for Neo, it was the thing that allowed the world to be saved.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I know that what this forum needs is yet another BvS topic, but I wonder if a mod could put up a poll with these options:
After seeing BvS, how would you rate it:
Awesome
Good, not great
Average
Pretty bad
Really bad
Literally worse than Hitler (Snyder raped my childhood)
I think it would be interesting to see how it would shake out. I feel like the forum, despite constant assertions of Marvel Fanboyism and hivemind groupthink, would be more representative of the general populace than most people would like to believe. I would guess around 65 percent would rate average or better, 30 percent would proclaim this the Third Reich in movie form, while only 5 percent would rate pretty bad or really bad.
After seeing BvS, how would you rate it:
Awesome
Good, not great
Average
Pretty bad
Really bad
Literally worse than Hitler (Snyder raped my childhood)
I think it would be interesting to see how it would shake out. I feel like the forum, despite constant assertions of Marvel Fanboyism and hivemind groupthink, would be more representative of the general populace than most people would like to believe. I would guess around 65 percent would rate average or better, 30 percent would proclaim this the Third Reich in movie form, while only 5 percent would rate pretty bad or really bad.
Well... I guess in this FUBAR Batman it would make no difference since he's all about the bloodletting. In my head Batman's objective would be to make Clark snap out of it, with straight out killing him being Plan B obviously if there's no other way.
Oh well, whatevz.
In Hush, he tries to kill Lois.
Bruce's entire fucking character rests on his obsession over the trauma over the murder of his parents.
Now this thing which he barely acknowledges as human is telling him right before he is about to die that "hey even though you're about to kill me, I need you to save my mother, please" and in one fell swoop humanizes the guy right in front of Bruce and hits him where he is cut deepest, the potential loss of a parent, that both of their mothers have the same name fucks up Bruce even further as in the cries of Clark begging him to save her, he is immediately reminded of what he felt when his mother died. This is a human moment between the two of them, and clearly in the context of this movie, human moments are few and far between for Batman
I mean, it works, and clearly worked for many people, even some who didn't like the film.
Movie has tons of problems but I dont think this is one of them at all.
Solid SOAP
Member
Wait that's a good point... why act now? Stupid
Some of my problems with the plot points:
* If Batman has no problem killing, why is the Joker still alive, as implied by the Suicide Squad trailer?
* If Batman/Alfred could easily figure out Martha's whereabouts, why can't Superman? Or for that matter, why can't Batman/Alfred do a research about Superman including his background/family? Then they'd have known that Superman is Clark Kent and have family.
* I also don't understand why Superman went on a high horse about Batman being a vigilante for branding that girl-trafficking goon when he himself just slammed a warlord against a wall or two just to save Lois?
* What is the point of the piss and the senator? I know it's related to the Senator making a remark comparing Lex to a piss. But what kind of public speaker not prepare to bring his/her own bottled water when delivering a speech or holding a conference?
* I don't understand why Batman is so angry at Superman. It is implied that he has had fucked up experience in the past year or so but without knowing those experiences (childhood trauma aside), he just came across as a lunatic with anger management problem.
* If Batman has no problem killing, why is the Joker still alive, as implied by the Suicide Squad trailer?
* If Batman/Alfred could easily figure out Martha's whereabouts, why can't Superman? Or for that matter, why can't Batman/Alfred do a research about Superman including his background/family? Then they'd have known that Superman is Clark Kent and have family.
* I also don't understand why Superman went on a high horse about Batman being a vigilante for branding that girl-trafficking goon when he himself just slammed a warlord against a wall or two just to save Lois?
* What is the point of the piss and the senator? I know it's related to the Senator making a remark comparing Lex to a piss. But what kind of public speaker not prepare to bring his/her own bottled water when delivering a speech or holding a conference?
* I don't understand why Batman is so angry at Superman. It is implied that he has had fucked up experience in the past year or so but without knowing those experiences (childhood trauma aside), he just came across as a lunatic with anger management problem.
Is almost Like a plot were a Nuclear Sub carry plutonium....
Forgetting that this is overanalizing the smallest of details, Lex knew both Martha and Lois were the most important people in his nemesis life, it isnt hard to imagine that one of the most powerful man in the planet kept close surveilance on both of them.
IMO of course
roflwaffles
Member
thecouncil
Banned
Maybe Batman hasn't been given the chance to "indirectly" murder him.
Jack Remington
Banned
Which side are you on?
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
First point: this is the worst gripe I have ever seen. EVER. Have you seriously never been in a professional setting where someone is going to be speaking? The room is set-up, including water. Why would a senator be tasked with bringing in their own water?
Second point: this is an alien whose wanton disregard for others' safety presumably caused the death of thousands of innocents. Think of all the nerds over the past 5 years who have expressed the same animosity. For most people this is one of their biggest complaint about MoS. Now think if you were actually there and lost close friends, employees, and fellow citizens. Of course you would be pissed.
#notmysuperman #notmybatman #hackman2016
You're correct.
Obliterator
Member
I had some issues with this movie for sure but I really didn't think it was as bad as what has been implied from critics / some people. I mean it wasn't the best thing I've ever seen but it was well worth a watch.
It's either the second worst Batman film, or the second worst Superman film.
Has that going for it at least!
lmao, yeah, for all the people whining about Man of Steel, you'd think they'd be able to empathize with Bruce a lot more
But Batman's smarter than me.
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