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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
- Thread starter N7Commander95
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ThoseDeafMutes
Member
His original plan was to legally import the Krpytonite so he could legally build anti-Kryptonian weapons with government help. When the fell through this was his backup. He was still buddy buddy all through the film until the end with military contacts. They gave him the ship, they gave him the corpse. That was the senator's personal obstruction.
The explosion would either be blamed on superman directly, or he would be blamed for not stopping the bomb. This is part of both his PR campaign against supes and his psychological attack on him, Cavil gets quite upset at failing to stop it and has to go have a time out afterwards.
Also, MY PARENTS ARE DEAD MOVIES ONLY MAKE SENSE IF YOU FORCE THEM TO
BronsonLee
Member
I don't even think he wanted Batman to steal that shit, he was gonna use it on his own
It just..didn't bother him too much, since he knew who took it, and exactly what for
It just..didn't bother him too much, since he knew who took it, and exactly what for
But she is also the only reason Superman approaches Lex at all. The reasoning for that bullet conspiracy ultimately only to get Clark to face Lex, who wants him to face Batman, but also to face Doomsday as some ill-planned contingency?
It's a clumsy convenience more than anything.
Don't think about the actual logical flow of motivations for Lex or Bruce in this film, or the script collapses. This is the biggest warning flag that it is a heavily rewritten script where there are chunks of it the director says MUST be in, but it gets harder and harder to have strong connecting tissue between those parts as the moving pieces change.
This is why I don't care for nitpicking of minor details which don't matter, since there are larger issues like that to talk about.
Bruce Wayne was so concerned when he saw his ex-employee vandalize the Superman monument. Yet... he wasn't concerned enough to bail him out personally and have a chat with him after that? It was Luthor who bailed him out and set everything up with the senate hearing. That was particularly jarring to me because the scene where Bruce sees him vandalizing the statue on the news had such a strong reaction from him, and then he does... nothing after that.
Same with Luthor's overall game plan. He seemed REALLY mad that Batman stole his Kryptonite. And his response to that was to go risk his own life to create Doomsday because he lost his ace in the hole against Superman. That's how I saw it based on his performance in those scenes because he didn't actually say anything. At first I thought him forcing Superman to go kill Batman was him watching to use Superman to get revenge for him on Batman for wrecking his lab. Before unleashing Doomsday to kill Superman too.
But yet in the scenes that follow, he suggests that Batman was being pushed over the edge by -his plan- all along. And that Doomsday was just a Plan B in case Batman couldn't kill Superman. What? That makes zero sense when you work backwards and try to understand what he was planning. So clearly at some point one or more of these components weren't part of an actual plan in the script.
LumpOfCole
Member
Oh man, this movie has potential. It's like a ribeye steak with twelve fatty sides around and top of the steak. I mean, just about any aspiring editor can take a damned axe to entire scenes and come out with a leaner, better movie. The ingredients are all mostly there!
I get that WB is trying to take an express pass to world building their cinematic universe, but damn that made this a fatty movie.
Dump the entire 'Earth 2' Batman trenchcoat nightmare scene that throws off the whole pacing. It's like someone stuck in that scene in what would make sense chronologically, but not pacing-wise. No, if you insist on having that scene, make that the 'after credit' scene.
Dump Wonder Woman looking at the meta-human files. Show Diana three times total - at Lex's party investigating him (and maybe have her say a mysterious line to Bruce or something), then way later show her leaving the plane, and then finally have her show up to be Wonder Woman against Doomsday. That's it. Let the audience assume she pieced it all together herself and that we didn't need to actually see her connect the dots.
Dump Clark and Perry sparring over covering the 'Gotham Bat' - just one comment from Clark wanting to cover him and begrudgingly being reassigned to a sports article is sufficient. We get it, newspapers aren't like newspapers in the times of old, no need to hammer the point in 3 or 4 more times.
Dump the Bruce & Martha's Grave dream sequence. In fact, this movie could do without any dream sequences. find a smarter, shorter way to show that Bruce's mother is also named Martha.
Cut the part of the Superman montage that shows a rocket being blown up while Superman saves the capsule; the movie is already tonally sad enough.
I mean, just that hatchet job will shorten and tighten the movie by 30 minutes. Retake some of the Superman scenes where Clark is actually smiling. Maybe find an excuse to bring that great scene where Batman is fighting a bunch of Lex's dudes closer to the beginning of the film (Make that the part where Batman is off to get the Kryptonite or something) so that the pacing isn't so top-heavy with action in the later half.
I still don't think all of the above completely fixes it though - Doomsday just didn't feel like the sort of 'Final Boss' that should be in a movie about kickstarting the Justice League, due to Doomsday's one defining trait of killing Superman having to be fulfilled. (Instead of Doomsday, maybe Lex could've built Metallo or something, cutting all of the weird 'Zod's body' stuff out of the movie. Hell, rename and tweak Wallace's legless character to John Corben and the plot just writes itself).
But we get Doomsday, so we get the obvious outcome. We know Superman is coming back before the funeral even starts, because the audience has it hammered into them that the Justice League movie is obviously happening and they aren't making a Justice League without Superman. This movie has a lot of pathos and downers already, so just give the good guys a damned straight win at the end.
There is a fine movie underneath all the sides. Just some actual editing and some tweaking and it's a truly great film.
I get that WB is trying to take an express pass to world building their cinematic universe, but damn that made this a fatty movie.
Dump the entire 'Earth 2' Batman trenchcoat nightmare scene that throws off the whole pacing. It's like someone stuck in that scene in what would make sense chronologically, but not pacing-wise. No, if you insist on having that scene, make that the 'after credit' scene.
Dump Wonder Woman looking at the meta-human files. Show Diana three times total - at Lex's party investigating him (and maybe have her say a mysterious line to Bruce or something), then way later show her leaving the plane, and then finally have her show up to be Wonder Woman against Doomsday. That's it. Let the audience assume she pieced it all together herself and that we didn't need to actually see her connect the dots.
Dump Clark and Perry sparring over covering the 'Gotham Bat' - just one comment from Clark wanting to cover him and begrudgingly being reassigned to a sports article is sufficient. We get it, newspapers aren't like newspapers in the times of old, no need to hammer the point in 3 or 4 more times.
Dump the Bruce & Martha's Grave dream sequence. In fact, this movie could do without any dream sequences. find a smarter, shorter way to show that Bruce's mother is also named Martha.
Cut the part of the Superman montage that shows a rocket being blown up while Superman saves the capsule; the movie is already tonally sad enough.
I mean, just that hatchet job will shorten and tighten the movie by 30 minutes. Retake some of the Superman scenes where Clark is actually smiling. Maybe find an excuse to bring that great scene where Batman is fighting a bunch of Lex's dudes closer to the beginning of the film (Make that the part where Batman is off to get the Kryptonite or something) so that the pacing isn't so top-heavy with action in the later half.
I still don't think all of the above completely fixes it though - Doomsday just didn't feel like the sort of 'Final Boss' that should be in a movie about kickstarting the Justice League, due to Doomsday's one defining trait of killing Superman having to be fulfilled. (Instead of Doomsday, maybe Lex could've built Metallo or something, cutting all of the weird 'Zod's body' stuff out of the movie. Hell, rename and tweak Wallace's legless character to John Corben and the plot just writes itself).
But we get Doomsday, so we get the obvious outcome. We know Superman is coming back before the funeral even starts, because the audience has it hammered into them that the Justice League movie is obviously happening and they aren't making a Justice League without Superman. This movie has a lot of pathos and downers already, so just give the good guys a damned straight win at the end.
There is a fine movie underneath all the sides. Just some actual editing and some tweaking and it's a truly great film.
Bluekaveli
Member
I'd give the movie between a 5-6. The storytelling was every where. It felt more like Batman with Superman as he's an afterthought. I think Snyder said, "Hey, they complained about Superman so let's give them more batman. Yeah that'll work."
I hated Eisenberg, he was a lite Joker. That was no damn Lex Luthor. They should've went with dude from Malcolm in The Middle. I hated the way he lost his hair, there is so much I can say regarding lex.
How they were able to bring us Princess was pretty cool but how does she out detective Batman? How does Batman not know about the other super heroes yet, he's a detective? How does lex not have a file on Batman yet he does everyone else? But I love the little clips of each one. I got hyped but then I realized who's doing justice league.
Very creative way to create doomsday but the villain should've been a very powerful lex imo. Doomsday should've been saved for the justice league movie maybe.
Also, why wouldn't Bruce Wayne have more kryptonite? That's dumb but hey they just wanted to set up them getting the spear anyway(that was a dumb part as well.)
Aflac surprised me. I can't wait for the Batman movie. But why the fuck is batman shooting and killing? I said what the fuck in the theatre. That dream sequence was stupid. There were too many batman flaws as well.
I hated Alfred. Wtf? Was he my grandfather? Why is he a damned mechanic?
But Michael Bay Jr. Did us dirty.
My favourite part was when they rolled Supes corpse over, all I could think of was the picture of hid funeral and Batman looks as if he's wondering if he left his stove on.
I hated Eisenberg, he was a lite Joker. That was no damn Lex Luthor. They should've went with dude from Malcolm in The Middle. I hated the way he lost his hair, there is so much I can say regarding lex.
How they were able to bring us Princess was pretty cool but how does she out detective Batman? How does Batman not know about the other super heroes yet, he's a detective? How does lex not have a file on Batman yet he does everyone else? But I love the little clips of each one. I got hyped but then I realized who's doing justice league.
Very creative way to create doomsday but the villain should've been a very powerful lex imo. Doomsday should've been saved for the justice league movie maybe.
Also, why wouldn't Bruce Wayne have more kryptonite? That's dumb but hey they just wanted to set up them getting the spear anyway(that was a dumb part as well.)
Aflac surprised me. I can't wait for the Batman movie. But why the fuck is batman shooting and killing? I said what the fuck in the theatre. That dream sequence was stupid. There were too many batman flaws as well.
I hated Alfred. Wtf? Was he my grandfather? Why is he a damned mechanic?
But Michael Bay Jr. Did us dirty.
My favourite part was when they rolled Supes corpse over, all I could think of was the picture of hid funeral and Batman looks as if he's wondering if he left his stove on.
kidtamagotchi
Member
Kryptonite only glows when close to a Kryptonian.
I'd like to talk about Zack Snyder's cinematography for a moment.
There is a lot of praise for the guy regarding this aspect. He knows how to make a shot look good. But does he? I don't deny that he has some measure of skill, but while he can make the aesthetics of some things neat, he uses very basic techniques, while what Whedon did with Avengers is far more complex and sophisticated.
Lets first look at how Whedon did it.
Sorry for the shitty quality.
First notice the placement about how their all standing in a circle. This makes the circular shot not only the logical choice, but it allows the viewer to get a good look at almost all the avengers. Second, look at the fact that the Avengers are all doing something. It begins with Hulk roaring, then Hawkeye notches an arrow, then Thor spins and readies his hammer in a striking pose, then Black Widow load her gun, and finally Captain America readjusts his shield (you could argue this last one is a bit weak, and I'd agree). Stark is the only one that doesn't get his own shot, but he's there in the background, settling down, joining his team, so he's not absent either. And they all do it as the camera gets to them, so there is always something for the audience to actually look at when you get to each character. This also conveys narrative information. The intentions of these characters is not just clear, it's dynamic. They're getting ready for battle, but the fact that they have their backs to each other implies trust and teamwork between the group, when they have been up to this point mostly divided (especially with Stark. While his dynamic motion is just joining the group rather than showing off his suit, he was one of the ones most resistant to a team, so his joining them is narratively significant demonstration of character development). That they're standing this way, next to one another, gives the shot a sense of narrative conclusion, that showing that something has changed between the beginning of this film and now.
In comparison, we have this.
Let me be clear, this is one of my favorite moments of a movie, one of the few parts, but as with the film in general, it falls short in a number of ways. Really, the real reason I like it is because I've waited for so long to see these 3 come together on screen to kick ass, so even if the fight itself doesn't impress me too much, them coming together does. And it's not entirely an awful shot. All the heroes look great, and the bright fire in the background helps all of them stand out.
HOWEVER
Does this shot really convey the magnitude of awesome it should, cinematographically speaking? It is shot in the most basic, plain way possible. You have the camera being stationary and zooming in, with all 3 characters just standing around. Lets be charitable and say Wonder Woman looks like she's in a battle stance, and I guess you can say Superman is readying his gun, even if it's not much. It'd work better if Wonder Woman flourished her sword a bit or something. Batman looks okay, but it kind of encapsulates how tonally off this movie is when his iconic pose in the Trinity shot is readying a gun of all things. And Superman is just...standing there, literally doing nothing. He could just as easily be waiting in line at Chipotle as in the battle of his life. And they're all stationary, their presence pretty independent of the each other, so you'd be even hardpressed to say they're standing together as a team. The only indication we have that their together now, is that they're facing the same direction, but the shot gives no indication that they trust or will now rely upon one another.
It's not a bad shot, necessarily, but Synder's shortcomings even in his supposed specialized skill as a movie maker become clear when compared to his competition.
Snyder's "best" cinematic moments are when he rips comic book panels or literal references and plants them right on the screen. But when he does something original, it's nothing great, like that shot of the trinity. It's awesome to see, but there's really not much to it at all. It's literally just a shot of them posing, static.
The swirling Avengers shot at the end of that movie was awesome. It was a moment everyone shared including the film, by showing the characters in action together in a way that couldn't have been done in a comic where the panel is static and unchanging, much like the Trinity shot in BvS. It was a purely cinematic moment that highlighted a special comic book-inspired event.
It's not clear whether anyone believes Superman killed the terrorists (directly) and other than the witness testifying, it's not clear anyone actually cares (perhaps by virtue of the fact they were alleged terrorists and the view Superman as a "combatant" or "soldier"). If they believe he killed, they don't care in this world. However, that's not a necessary interpretation, you could go with the idea he broke up their forces and then "worse came later" the local government retaliating against the terrorists after Superman leaves them wrecked.
The whole point is that even a "good" act against a "bad guy" can have negative collateral consequences, whether framed or no. There's no way for Lois to prove it was a frame job because her word on Supes is Mudd (unreliable as biased) and it's not like they were going to extricate bullet-ridden bodies to prove her point (and neither would the local government cooperate since they're just as guilty of following up with their own slaughter). Lois clings to the bullet as having potential to clear Superman's name (or reveal more to the story) which is why she dogs Swanwick.
We never learn what makes the bullets "super"... we only have three characteristics: 1) experimental prototype; 2) can't be ID'ed without revealing classified info; 3) "light metals"... penetration isn't any of these known factors so it could be stopped by a notebook and the benefit- for all we know- is reliability in desert conditions.
Lex doesn't covertly do anything in this film though. The only reason why the movie doesn't open with his arrest and downfall is because everyone else is just that much dumber.
Magicgamer101
Member
Terrible terrible movie. I'm literally so disappointed. I don't think they portrayed Batman well at all. Killing people, being manipulated by Lex Luthor and his whole reason for wanting to fight Superman was fucking stupid.
Superman was a good guy but just on the off chance he might turn evil, with no indication of that going to happen, Batman thought ite let me kill this guy who saves more people than I could.
Casting for Lex Luthor and Alfred were atrocious as well.
Superman was a good guy but just on the off chance he might turn evil, with no indication of that going to happen, Batman thought ite let me kill this guy who saves more people than I could.
Casting for Lex Luthor and Alfred were atrocious as well.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
There was a scene about this actually, Bruce is presented with the profiles of some employees who apparently got left behind including that one, and he's like "wtf why didn't these people get helped?" because it's stated that he had a fund for victims of the attack.
broncobuster
Banned
Lex had it so, basically he wins regardless. He did, more or less. The largest hole I found is Wonder Woman. He's seemingly oblivious for a guy with a file on her. Maybe he believed she couldn't pass up that sweet, luxurious first class seat on Turkish Airways.
There's gonna be a great fan edit of this. Ditch the Knightmare, move a shortened version of Batman's origin there + some quick flashes of Metropolis. Remove the metahumans secret files part and slap it mid-credits. Nip and tuck some of the crazier Lex moments, add in some saner ones if the Ultimate Edition has them. Ditch the Pa Kent hallucination. Gonna be great.
If Goyer didn't write the "drop the gun or Martha (Kent) gets roasted" part, I'll eat my shirt.
Yup. And Superman's death was needed for the story. The movie was about the redemption of Bruce Wayne through the example of Superman. Batman had to see Superman sacrifice everything to save humanity for him to completely believe that it was possible to be a good person. That was the final step on his path back to being a superhero.
Incidentally, it's also a heck of a good reason to start up the Justice League. Batman/Wonder Woman/Superman couldn't defeat Doomsday without loss. They're now missing the most powerful member so it makes sense that they'd seek out any other superpowered people.
If Goyer didn't write the "drop the gun or Martha (Kent) gets roasted" part, I'll eat my shirt.
Yup. And Superman's death was needed for the story. The movie was about the redemption of Bruce Wayne through the example of Superman. Batman had to see Superman sacrifice everything to save humanity for him to completely believe that it was possible to be a good person. That was the final step on his path back to being a superhero.
Incidentally, it's also a heck of a good reason to start up the Justice League. Batman/Wonder Woman/Superman couldn't defeat Doomsday without loss. They're now missing the most powerful member so it makes sense that they'd seek out any other superpowered people.
BronsonLee
Member
Speaking of Turkish Airways
Why did we have two separate ads for Gotham and Metropolis if they are legit right next to each other
They probably share the same airport!
Wait, really? I had absolutely no idea. Chalk that up to something the movie doesn't quite explain then.
aparisi2274
Member
I did not like this movie.
Here are some issues I had with it:
1. Doomsday. What a waste of a villain!
2. Why did all the JL guys have symbols/logos already on that LexCorp drive that Batman unlocked? Did someone at LexCorp just make them up based on their abilities? LAME
3. How in the hell did Batman e-mail Wonder Woman? I mean seriously... how the hell does that happen? Did he have her e-mail in his Bat database..
4. Future Flash showing up in Bruce's Dream within a dream... I had no clue who that was supposed to be!
The one thing I really did like, aside from the end credits, was the Batman fight in the warehouse. It was the Arkham games come to life.
I gave this movie a B-/C+
Here are some issues I had with it:
1. Doomsday. What a waste of a villain!
2. Why did all the JL guys have symbols/logos already on that LexCorp drive that Batman unlocked? Did someone at LexCorp just make them up based on their abilities? LAME
3. How in the hell did Batman e-mail Wonder Woman? I mean seriously... how the hell does that happen? Did he have her e-mail in his Bat database..
4. Future Flash showing up in Bruce's Dream within a dream... I had no clue who that was supposed to be!
The one thing I really did like, aside from the end credits, was the Batman fight in the warehouse. It was the Arkham games come to life.
I gave this movie a B-/C+
Yes, but what happened after that? We're talking about a Bruce Wayne, who in the awesome opening moments of the film was shown as a boss who cares so much for his employees he personally flies over to Metropolis during a disaster and drives through rumble in the warzone just to get to his building to personally rescue employees and look them in the eye.
"You're the boss, boss."
That was such a great depiction of a Bruce Wayne that we haven't seen before in film.
So when he later finds out that an ex-employee of his who he personally helped rescue in that incident is so bitter that he turns to vandalism to express his outrage - an outrage that Bruce agrees with, why wouldn't he be on the first flight over to Metropolis to bail him out, give him a hug, bring him back to Gotham and try to fix whatever is wrong?
Bull smack. Alfred was one of the best parts about the movie and injected some much needed levity to the movie.
Man, the second I saw Doomsday's hand get cut off and become a sharp instrument of death, I started praying that Zack Snyder wouldn't try to cram "Death of Superman" into the movie. Alas, my prayers were unanswered and the movie became "Death of Superman" + "The Dark Knight Returns" + "Man of Steel 2". I understand why they needed to kill Superman off. It helps pave the way to Darkseid. It's just that if that was their end game, they needed to shed a ton of subplots.
After a second viewing, I say fuck Batman and his killing. I like Ben Affleck's performance as Batman enough to be excited for where that character goes in the future, but they didn't need the killing to drive home the fact that this is a changed Batman.
The big reason is the guns.
The car chase scene is jarring when he fucking crushes the henchman in the back of the truck, but that also reminded me of other times in the past where people point on weird moments where Batman clearly kills, but it could be left aside as it wasn't a super important moment.
However, the guns? The gun is the weapon that killed his parents. At what moment in Bruce's life did he decide that using the same tool that essentially destroyed him as a child was acceptable? Even subtle moments in the comics have Batman destroying the guns after incapacitating enemies. Subtle, and meaningful.
I might be ironically thinking too much about this, as the people focusing on Batman inadvertently killing in other stories might do, but even Frank Miller's Batman included this frame:
The big reason is the guns.
The car chase scene is jarring when he fucking crushes the henchman in the back of the truck, but that also reminded me of other times in the past where people point on weird moments where Batman clearly kills, but it could be left aside as it wasn't a super important moment.
However, the guns? The gun is the weapon that killed his parents. At what moment in Bruce's life did he decide that using the same tool that essentially destroyed him as a child was acceptable? Even subtle moments in the comics have Batman destroying the guns after incapacitating enemies. Subtle, and meaningful.
I might be ironically thinking too much about this, as the people focusing on Batman inadvertently killing in other stories might do, but even Frank Miller's Batman included this frame:
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Maybe I'm confused in the timeline but I thought he only found out fairly late, after he'd already been bailed out by Lex and Bruce was into his investigation. As a character he seemed shaken by the revelation at any rate.
broncobuster
Banned
Metropolis has a JFK. Gotham has a Laguardia.
2. This was indeed a very silly scene.
3. Assume he found her email address in the same place he found her picture - in Lex's files.
4. It's made even more confusing to the uninitiated by the fact that earlier in the movie he had an actual dream about a giant bat. This Flash scene wasn't a dream, but a vision of a possible future apparently. Do one or the other, because doing both is confusing.
The fuckery continues.... I keep thinking there won't be another thing to make me dislike this movie more and ya'll keep providing.
This makes me worry about Civil War a little (based Russos got it), but since the original story was trash imo and TDR and Death of Superman stories were also trash stories imo. I am a tad concerned. I feel like nobody is safe anymore.
I know, but I wanted to compare them directly and analyze them, because I hear repeatedly that this is Zack Snyder's greatest skill, how there's no one that can make DC's heroes look THIS good.
But he does fall short, and it's clear when you look at what he's actually doing with a shot compared to someone like Whedon that, like you said, truly brought a comic book movie to the big screen in a dynamic way.
I seem to recall two different scenes. One was when Bruce was watching the news coverage of the vandalism, and another later when he was watching the news coverage of the senate hearing where the guy was testifying at. It was in the latter that they revealed the checks were being returned with the angry messages. Am I remembering this wrong?
Captain America Civil War is trying to combine a personal Captain America/Bucky story with the bombastic Civil War smackdown, while an evil presence is lurking behind the scenes. Basically what Batman v Superman was trying to do. If it doesn't throw in set up for Infinity War, it should be okay. But it could just as easily trip in the same places as Batman v Superman.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I don't remember who was watching the footage in the first scene, I guess we'll have to go watch it again
whatsinaname
Member
When we have the scene in the jail where the guard says he has been bailed out, I assumed it was Bruce outside.
That's a really good analysis of the group dynamic shots but I still think that Snyder creates some great visuals.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Massive let down. Movie is illogical and full of holes. I didn't appreciate fake lex, Bat Jesus and especially batman's turnaround.
After a second viewing, I say fuck Batman and his killing. I like Ben Affleck's performance as Batman enough to be excited for where that character goes in the future, but they didn't need the killing to drive home the fact that this is a changed Batman.
The big reason is the guns.
The car chase scene is jarring when he fucking crushes the henchman in the back of the truck, but that also reminded me of other times in the past where people point on weird moments where Batman clearly kills, but it could be left aside as it wasn't a super important moment.
However, the guns? The gun is the weapon that killed his parents. At what moment in Bruce's life did he decide that using the same tool that essentially destroyed him as a child was acceptable? Even subtle moments in the comics have Batman destroying the guns after incapacitating enemies. Subtle, and meaningful.
I might be ironically thinking too much about this, as the people focusing on Batman inadvertently killing in other stories might do, but even Frank Miller's Batman included this frame:
And Zack Snyder uses this Batman, and Batman who doesn't kill and is only able to push himself to paralyse, as a defence for why Batman should kill in BvS.
I'd like to see his response to these panels.
Clark was watching the footage. Bruce was too busy with his own shit to watch TV.I don't remember who was watching the footage in the first scene, I guess we'll have to go watch it again
Yessss. Exactly. I thought it was going to naturally lead to him being a neutral human element that further turns Bruce against Superman.
Lion Heart
Banned
Lul what, the cinematography was the best part of the movie and heads and shoulders above Avengers. It was beautifully shot, felt real and had real gravitas unlike Avengers.
The movie left a really positive vibe with me, I'm tempted for a second viewing which I haven't done since Avatar.
The movie left a really positive vibe with me, I'm tempted for a second viewing which I haven't done since Avatar.
Regarding that Avengers vs MvS "hero moment" comparison, I don't agree at all. I think it is a flawed comparison because cinematography doesn't happen in a vacuum. Context is just as important to the staging of a scene as anything else. The Avengers spin shot showed the group closing into together to handle a thread surrounding them. They were a vanguard force fighting an army. So that makes sense. The BvS shot is 3 heroes facing off against a big boss monster. They're not in a defensive position nor do they have any other enemies to worry about from any other angle. They're standing together and facing off against a singular threat opposite them.
You clearly know something is coming due to the "granny's sweet tea" though
Shit, you're right.
I don't know why I thought they were women.
Wow, that just made the shot so much more uninteresting to me. Wonder Woman rolling with an all female squad would have been so much more interesting. You don't typically see women in military settings, so having WW recruit them not only depicts how WW is an inspiration to women, but also immediately intrigues the audience into wanting to know their stories because you just don't see that.
Instead, they're a generic ass WWI squad. Nevermind, WW's file is as boring as the rest of them. Dammit.
Fair enough, I agree they shouldn't be clustered together back to back. But is that the most interesting way to shoot them together, just standing there? There's no other way to make it look more interesting?
I mean, Age of Ultron has them all together in the opening scene, attacking an army in a single direction. While some deride it as looking a bit silly, you can't deny hat there is creativity, a sense of motion, and an interesting that manages to fit all of them together. It's got SOMETHING going for it, even if you argue it doesn't succeed all the way.
It's just that them standing there is so...uninspired.
Don't forget the absence of Lex in addition to the freebie wheelchair as well. I was expecting a bomb the second Superman walked in.
Plus Lex not showing up
Glass Shark
Banned
I know there is a contingent of people who think The Dark Knight Rises is a bad movie, but compare the first Batman-Bane fight in that to anything in BvS for emotional weight and it's actually laughable.
Yes, the Batman warehouse scene at the end of BvS was actually pretty good. It was a good action scene with good action choreography. But it lacked emotion.
Yes, the Batman warehouse scene at the end of BvS was actually pretty good. It was a good action scene with good action choreography. But it lacked emotion.
You know something's coming from that shot of bomb-dude getting scanned before entering the senate.
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