PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

It only works for me if there's an upgrade path. Without it, I'm not pleased.

Frankly, consoles have only two advantages over PC -- uniformity of system and account architecture. and uniformity of specification. A PS4K would spoil the latter, and move me even faster towards maintaining a PC. An iterative console approach could work, but not in this fashion -- not having to get a whole new box. On a PC, if the current GPU is the bottleneck, you upgrade the GPU and keep everything else. I already have a console with 8GBs of GDDR5 RAM and a hard drive, why do I need to buy those again? If this was the approach they wanted to take with the PS4, they should have planned an upgrade path in the design.
 
Plinko said:
These posts are so far off target I don't even think people read any more.

If you read the thread, the people against it are largely arguing that they don't believe devs will keep optimizing games for OG PS4 and instead optimize for PS4K instead and that will result in poor performance.
Click to expand...

I really don't think those fears are rational, though. Mainly because

A. There are a ton of PS4s in the wild already and Sony will continue selling the OG model alongside the 4K indefinitely. Sony and Devs will have a vested interest in supporting it long term.

B. We've already seen countless instances of cross development with hardware MORE powerful than PS4K on PC, which hasn't led to these doomsday scenarios coming to pass. Why would it when we're taking about a smaller gap with more similar architecture? Doesn't make sense.
 
MrHoot said:
But that's with the expectation that games on the ps4k will be 60fps in the first place. You're giving devs a lot of credit, like they'll suddenly be the best at optimization because it's a powerful machine. Just like people were saying that the ps4 would be the era of 60fps games on consoles.

If this leak is accurate, the power gap is not minor, it's in fact quite significant and it's already implied in the OP that there would quite significant downgrades from ps4k to ps4. Considering how we barely get optimized multiplatform games NOW, what makes you think the difference will be so minor between ps4 and ps4k, or that it will just be a FPS difference. I really don't buy it. Not with the currrent mindset, where still major companies like Warner Bros. or Bethesda still have a lot of issues now.

The fear of most is that the ps4k will become the norm for "acceptable" and not good, and the ps4 will barely get it running after a while. Considering stuff happening right now, this is a way more likely alternative than the perfect utopia some seem to have
Click to expand...

It will probably be like the difference between PS3 and Ps4 versions of the same game. You don't get to change settings or anything. This is basically the PS5 but the game disk automatically detects what system you have and adjusts settings to suit.
 
Don't understand the outrage. Its been almost 3 years since the release of the ps4

We are getting a revised version that's almost twice as powerful and will deliver improved performance and graphics. Shouldn't we want better products?

And if its sold at $499 count me the fuck in
 
PS4K - THIS IS FOR THE PAYERS

Anyway, I am really surprised that the 4K will be the new target spec with 'considerable sacrifice' on PS4. I think this was about the worst possible scenario from feedback from many posters in previous leak threads about this.

I am OK with this, but I am at a time with a bit more expendable income then when I was younger. I can see how some people will definitely feel burned if they get left with a game that barely runs.

That being said, I do not trust all the details of this leak, either.
 
vpance said:
I game on PC too, but basically only for exclusive strategy games.

Honestly if I had more sense than money and PC was my main gaming platform I'd switch to only buying mid gen slim refreshed consoles if I really had to play their exclusives.
Click to expand...

Thing is, before we had generations, so it was a simple concept, now we don't know how often a refresh is coming if a generation is still a thing, there may not be a PS5 anymore, Sony surely won't tell you their plans, cause they'll get people like those on Gaf who will double or triple dip or buy a new Playstation every year like a mobile phone.

So now if you want the best possible experience, you have to either spend a lot of money often, wait a long time, or settle on something inferior.
 
It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance.
Click to expand...

We were also given a list of games that will be available at launch that will directly take advantage of the PS4K where the differences are and I will quote him "Significant."
Click to expand...

This is why I was concerned and I was right. This is a bad idea.
 
OsirisBlack said:
It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance.
Click to expand...

This is basically the PS5 at this point, especially if the details in the OP about the doubling of the GPU power and CPU enhancements are accurate.
 
Breakage said:
It must be galling to be a current PS4 owner knowing this is on the horizon - I would be pissed off if I owned a PS4 right now.

The non-4k model will be seen as the inferior system by Sony and devs alike.
Click to expand...

Yet it's still better then the x1 and poo eople are still buying that
 
Welfare said:
Who honestly gives a shit. It was outdated by PC's at launch and will be outdated when the next gen comes. Literally nothing changes except your consoles placement in "power level" speak.
Click to expand...

Well there are all the people complaining about it in this very thread for a start.
 
The PS4K is needed if they really want to push VR. The CPU and GPU in the PS4 are significantly weaker than any VR-ready PC.
 
BETRAYAL!!! I'm outraged! My cheeck is red from the slap Sony wtf!
More outrage over shiny graphics then trump being Republican front runner lol (not really)
Do people really get this bent out of shape over video games? Lets remember your PS4 will still work even though there is a newer model out.
 
Raylan said:
If the PS4K launches in Q1 2017, expect a PSX reveal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense to announce the PS4K early when it doesn't launch this year. The news of a better PS4 coming up would only hurt their sales.

At the same time, all of these leaks might force their hands to announce it sooner than planned. The news is out in the wild, and letting the rumors run havoc for half a year wouldn't be wise.
 
Demanufacture said:
Ah the one example!

Which actually still looks and runs better than the PS4 version if you have a good enough PC.
Click to expand...

Doesn't it run like shit on PC still ? I mean when they reintroduced it it was still garbage.

Anyway, want more examples, like Toukiden or the latest Tales game for instance. What about dark souls 2 where it had weapon degradation tied to it's framerate for some reason. Mortal Kombat X. A slew of japanese games etc etc
 
I was starting to become tempted to get PlayStation VR, but now this just puts that in the same situation as I have with the PC. I wasn't going to go VR there for a year or two because I need to update my pc, and now I feel the same about the ps4 (albeit at a much lower cost). If I'm going to do it though I will just go the PC route now, more games I want to play and will last me longer than a console.

I just hope they hurry up with the new gpu's and announce prices.
 
ArkhamFantasy said:
That's not going to happen. Console developers have never targeted 60 FPS, every time they get more powerful hardware they use the extra power for graphics, always, consistently, for 30 years.

Hyrule Warriors 3DS JUST came out, the New 3DS version is NOT 60 FPS, and the original 3DS version runs like garbage.
Click to expand...

Sure, but with Uncharted 4, 60 fps was their initial target when they first unveiled the game and then scaled back a little to add the bell and whistles.
 
MrHoot said:
Doesn't it run like shit on PC still ? I mean when they reintroduced it it was still garbage.

Anyway, want more examples, like Toukiden or the latest Tales game for instance. What about dark souls 2 where it had weapon degradation tied to it's framerate for some reason. Mortal Kombat X. A slew of japanese games etc etc
Click to expand...

Yep.

The point is this assumption that the PS4 experience will always be great compared to the PS4K experience is a false assumption that is idealistic and not realistic.
 
Parfait said:
You don't understand but then you try to cite an example using android,

This is basically Sony's treatise on 'How to take a lead then fuck it up.'

Even though I held off on buying a PS4 until now, it feels dumb to buy into one now, and I really, REALLY want to with Star Ocean V coming out so soon. The fact that apparently future games will run worse on the PS4 is basically sealing this thing 20 feet under.

It just feels so dumb. I can't go around dropping hundreds of bucks on a new console, I have to pick and choose my fights here. And I don't know what I'm really going to do until there's more info on how badly these 'new' games run on a ps4.

I shouldn't care because I don't have a PS4 yet, but jeez, the shit people must be going through when they're low on dosh and have one already...
Click to expand...

I guess I could have used the example of Televisions, or Laptops, or PC Video cards, or a whole slew of other consumer electronics. I used the Nexus 5/5x example because I'm currently thinking about upgrading.

I think it's a little premature to assume that new games will be vastly inferior running on the current PS4. But it shouldn't be a surprise when some here will deem a game 'unplayable' because of a couple frame drops.
 
Demanufacture said:
Because games on 1080p 30fps games PS4k (they will happen) will probably be all over the place on PS4. I highly doubt we are going to see the same level of optimisation for PS4 after the new machine comes out.
Click to expand...

so what are you saying games should be held hostage because? if the game is 1080p 30fps on ps4k you will play 1080p 30fps on your ps4 with less particles and bells. or do you think developers will be held back by ps4. ps3 games were crap and that didnt stop developers to push the pc market
 
GaimeGuy said:
The PS4K is needed if they really want to push VR. The CPU and GPU in the PS4 are significantly weaker than any VR-ready PC.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. Now the outlay to have PSVR running at its potential is $399 for the headset and $399 for PS4K, which is roughly the same price point of PCVR (assuming you already have adequate pc hardware)
 
endlessflood said:
What happens for online gaming? One player is playing with a substantially better image quality or framerate than his opponents on what was previously a completely level platform.
Click to expand...
Thus already happens. Some people play on monitors with zero lag while others will do so on horribly calibrated TV's with massive input lag. Last gen you had people playing and competing.some on SD with composite, some on HD with HDMI. You also have things like Ethernet and Wireless, awful and brilliant Internet connections.

There's never a level platform.
 
endlessflood said:
What happens for online gaming? One player is playing with a substantially better image quality or framerate than his opponents on what was previously a completely level platform.
Click to expand...

Since these rumors started I've seen this come up, but never before. I guess it wasn't a consideration before.

What's weird though is I saw a lot of people asking for cross platform multiplayer. People really liked it with Rocket League. Personally I don't think the differences are enough to worry about advantages. What if someone has a bigger TV or bought a programmable controller? Faster internet has always been advantage with online multiplayer. There are a lot of different ways online players get advantages.

Shahed said:
Thus already happens. Some people play on monitors with zero lag while others will do so on horribly calibrated TV's with massive input lag. Last gen you had people playing and competing.some on SD with composite, some on HD with HDMI. You also have things like Ethernet and Wireless, awful and brilliant Internet connections.

There's never a level platform.
Click to expand...

Yup it's a silly thing to worry about.
 
Nameless said:
I really don't think those fears are rational, though. Mainly because

A. There are a ton of PS4s in the wild already and Sony will continue selling the OG model alongside the 4K indefinitely. Sony and Devs will have a vested interest in supporting it long term.

B. We've already seen countless instances of cross development with hardware MORE powerful than PS4K on PC, which hasn't led to these doomsday scenarios coming to pass. Why would it when we're taking about a smaller gap with more similar architecture? Doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Because this is the console market. There's a reason why console gamers are console gamers and not PC gamers. Yes, developing for multiple hardware configurations has existed for decades on PC but this is a first for the console market. People are going to have to deal with the hassle of, "Will my PS4 run this game?" and "Will I have to play it on crappy settings?" and "Oh, this is only a PS4K game?"

It would have been better if they had just done a full upgrade and called it a PS5 that's completely bc with PS4. Then it creates a clear line for consumers.

Everyone was waiting for the time when Sony screwed up a good thing, well here it is, if true.
 
eFKac said:
Thing is, before we had generations, so it was a simple concept, now we don't know how often a refresh is coming if a generation is still a thing, there may not be a PS5 anymore, Sony surely won't tell you their plans, cause they'll get people like those on Gaf who will double or triple dip or buy a new Playstation every year like a mobile phone.

So now if you want the best possible experience, you have to either spend a lot of money often, wait a long time, or settle on something inferior.
Click to expand...

I think now that they've shown their hand I think it's relatively predictable. Even in the past it's basically whenever a feasible node shrink is on the horizon is when we can expect a slim revision. It's just that now instead of only being a cost cutting measure it's also an upgrade path.

After 14nm is 10, and that is not coming anytime soon. By the time it does is when an 8x power is probable and that is certainly PS5 territory.
 
Dad said:
I'm not upset that people will be playing 60fps while I'm at 30fps. I'm worried that games on the base system will be sub 30fps unoptimized garbage while all the developer's efforts are pouring into the PS4K version. New 3DS has a handful of titles that work this way with some pretty mixed results.

Monster Hunter 4 is a competent example. The regular version runs at pretty solid 30fps, while it gets a bump in framerate and textures while running on New 3DS.

Hyrule Warriors is an incompetent example. It runs sort of okay on New 3DS, but it's deplorable on the original system.

I don't have much faith outside of maybe first party offerings to make games well optimized for the original system.
Click to expand...

I don't want to derail but Hyrule Warriors on Wii U wasn't an absolute masterpiece in terms of performance either.
 
MrHoot said:
But that's with the expectation that games on the ps4k will be 60fps in the first place. You're giving devs a lot of credit, like they'll suddenly be the best at optimization because it's a powerful machine. Just like people were saying that the ps4 would be the era of 60fps games on consoles.

If this leak is accurate, the power gap is not minor, it's in fact quite significant and it's already implied in the OP that there would quite significant downgrades from ps4k to ps4. Considering how we barely get optimized multiplatform games NOW, what makes you think the difference will be so minor between ps4 and ps4k, or that it will just be a FPS difference. I really don't buy it. Not with the currrent mindset, where still major companies like Warner Bros. or Bethesda still have a lot of issues now.

The fear of most is that the ps4k will become the norm for "acceptable" and not good, and the ps4 will barely get it running after a while. Considering stuff happening right now, this is a way more likely alternative than the perfect utopia some seem to have
Click to expand...
Well duh,ofcourse PS4 can't compete with PS4k but who says PS4 games are going to run worse because of PS4k no one knows that alot of armchair develop ers in this thread
 
Marty Chinn said:
Yep.

The point is this assumption that the PS4 experience will always be great compared to the PS4K experience is a false assumption that is idealistic and not realistic.
Click to expand...

But it's also a false assumption to say it won't. Both speculation are incorrect as it is since we aren't in that time to see if there is a big difference. All we have is, more power. The PS4 had great tools for better optimization... I doubt all of a sudden those tools are extinct and the PS4 becomes a PS3 overnight.
 
F4r0_Atak said:
Sure, but with Uncharted 4, 60 fps was their initial target when they first unveiled the game and then scaled back a little to add the bell and whistles.
Click to expand...

And that kind of proves the point. I do think there are devs who honestly want to make games at 60 FPS...but there's a lot of pressure to make your game as "pretty" as possible (many would argue that 30 more fps is prettier, but I digress...).

And this pressure pretty much always supersedes the FPS concerns. And that's partly why it's so noteworthy when a dev actually does aim for AND hit their 60 FPS target. It becomes the exception rather than the rule.
 
hemo memo said:
This is why I was concerned and I was right. This is a bad idea.
Click to expand...

For all you know the PS4 version will run the same as it ever would have. Just worse then the PS4K is what I get from that. So your "concern" is currently concerning to me. Very concerning indeed.
 
Tainted said:
Pretty much this. Now the outlay to have PSVR running at its potential is $399 for the headset and $399 for PS4K, which is roughly the same price point of PCVR (assuming you already have adequate pc hardware)
Click to expand...

..and thats the problem. Many still do not have adequate pc hardware, so PSVR with PS4K remains the cheapest

Naudi said:
For all you know the PS4 version will run the same as it ever would have. Just worse then the PS4K is what I get from that. So your "concern" is currently concerning to me. Very concerning indeed.
Click to expand...

The OP makes it clear that the PS4K will be the new target spec, so no, do not expect the PS4 games to run as well as they ever did.
 
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