This should in no way be considered a bad thing.
Alison Rapp Fired By Nintendo Discussion Thread -- Read Ground Rules in OP
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This should in no way be considered a bad thing.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
...yeah. This is a messy situation and all of it is just icky.
chronic_archaic
Member
I hope she can come back from this. Would be so angry/upset/confused if a bunch of internet assholes made me lose my job.
metalslimer
Member
I'm sure Alison will be fine but Nintendo just emboldened these horrible people it they will continue to terrorize people with the knowledge it continues to work
GoldenEye 007
Member
Sure they are made up of people but decisions are usually not made in vaccums. And especially with firings, it is usually carefully done so not to expose the company to potential litigation. Ultimately the people that make up the company would be required to support whatever leadership wants. Like I said in the other thread, I'm actually shocked they made any sort of statement at all
As for the rest, it seems like she has had latitude in the past and also clashes in the past. It just isn't unexpected for Nintendo to finally just say enough.
I'm also unconvinced a company should be expected to support or step in over someone being harassed on their own social media accounts or through other means not accessed through the company or their property. It seems like a civil/legal matter that the victim would be responsible for handling. Sure a company could put out a general statement, but I wouldn't expect one when apparently no company accounts or property were involved.
As I mentioned in the other thread right as it was locked...
I think that any discussion around Alison should just be stopped for the moment. Since as others pointed out it could end more damaging towards her. Since she's not going to openly talk about details, Nintendo obviously won't, people will start digging for more and if that "anon" found that second job then that might be found and posted by others.
And the thread will just go in circles. All assumptions and people looking for stuff that the parts involved at the moment doesn't want out to be seen.
NOW...
The discussion about a group of...ehr..people digging for dirt, attacking and harassing people with the sole focus of damaging them and ruining their lives. That most of them are women and that companies in general (not only Nintendo) outside the usual PR response won't say much; should be a topic and have a discussion.
I also mentioned in the other thread how the media in general also fails in this. When this women are openly attacked, they talk about it. When they don't talk about it, the media just ignores the topic...while they continue to be attacked.
Anita, Alison, Jade has been harassed for years...they still do. Yet they're reported about whenever a threat is targeted at them or something random like with Jade Raymond at the game awards were people just talked about how she looked off and mentioned The Witcher by mistake. The rest of the time they continue trying to live their lives around the harassment and threats, while media is taking about fake NX controllers and PS4K.
I think that any discussion around Alison should just be stopped for the moment. Since as others pointed out it could end more damaging towards her. Since she's not going to openly talk about details, Nintendo obviously won't, people will start digging for more and if that "anon" found that second job then that might be found and posted by others.
And the thread will just go in circles. All assumptions and people looking for stuff that the parts involved at the moment doesn't want out to be seen.
NOW...
The discussion about a group of...ehr..people digging for dirt, attacking and harassing people with the sole focus of damaging them and ruining their lives. That most of them are women and that companies in general (not only Nintendo) outside the usual PR response won't say much; should be a topic and have a discussion.
I also mentioned in the other thread how the media in general also fails in this. When this women are openly attacked, they talk about it. When they don't talk about it, the media just ignores the topic...while they continue to be attacked.
Anita, Alison, Jade has been harassed for years...they still do. Yet they're reported about whenever a threat is targeted at them or something random like with Jade Raymond at the game awards were people just talked about how she looked off and mentioned The Witcher by mistake. The rest of the time they continue trying to live their lives around the harassment and threats, while media is taking about fake NX controllers and PS4K.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Not to go too far of topic, but I feel like the same results would've happened if it were a guy doing the same exact things.
Apparently her employer had a problem with it, that's the important bit. Instead of dropping it, she pressed the issue. Just one of the straws on the camel's back.
Of course not, but sometimes you have to ask yourself: "Is this really something I want to risk angering my boss, or potentially losing my job over?"
She was only at Nintendo for 2.5 years. There's more than one way to advocate for a cause.
Dangansona
Member
Man, in a few weeks I am giving a speech to my ethics in computing class about women and gaming (representation in games, how marketing has driven them away for decades, and treatment online). I don't know how to touch GG nonsense.
stump sock
Member
morally? no. but when you're saying potentially inflammatory stuff from the same account you use to do stuff related to your job, you'd be smart to listen to your employers if you value said job.
e: short story is, the public isn't going to know when you are or aren't representing your company in a situation like this. the employer has every interest in making sure they're not going to be seen as endorsing ANY views they don't explicitly endorse.
It's all needless speculation at this point, but it's arguable that she never would have been targeted by the hate-group if she wasn't a woman.
But we really don't know.
EDIT: Man, I really hope some of you aren't my boss one day. I get that this is how some companies operate, but it's not how all companies have to operate. I hate all the handwaving of, "this is how it is". No, this is how Nintendo is.
Pyccko
Member
I don't think GG would have gone after a guy half as hard.
CenturionKei
Banned
Yeah. I'm glad Nintendo has a zero tolerance thing in relation to anything remotely near pedophilia.
Hate to say it, but I think Nintendo made the right decision to fire her.
Dangansona
Member
Yeah sadly (or maybe fairly) this is the weight companies attach to social media posts by their employees. The real shitty part of this story is how GG surfaced it all.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Agreed. It's not necessarily about silencing women. It's that when you're hired as a PR for a company, you represent that company. Nintendo doesn't want their brand being associated with divisive topics. Nintendo has been very against discussing religion, politics, and other controversial topics.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
I think the conversation around this point should be about why Nintendo considers that to be inflammatory.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
Can you cite a single instance of her using her account to do stuff related to her job? Even if you're a "social media manager", you've got another account to do that and your personal account is your own. Pretty much no one mixes it like that, for obvious reasons, so I imagine you probably have something specific in mind here, right?
This is 100% not the case. If it was a guy doing these things, GG never would have targeted them.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
I don't care to know what her 2nd job was. However, if Nintendo allows moonlighting why wouldn't she just have used her real name? Unless she knew Nintendo would not be cool with what it was. If it put her in a more positive light I think she would say what she was doing as a second job.
It could have, but definitely not as publicly or as quickly since Gamergate would not have been involved.
JasoNsider
Member
This whole thing has me feeling down. We are not doing enough for women in this industry. Period. She was, bar none, one of the best new voices out of any company - she spoke about self care and positive image constantly.
We need to do better. I think we're going to look back on this 30 years from now and won't be able to believe we allowed this sort of thing to go for so long.
edit: and yes, please stop asking and digging about her second job. It's precisely that kind of garbage that lead to this mess. It's not your business.
We need to do better. I think we're going to look back on this 30 years from now and won't be able to believe we allowed this sort of thing to go for so long.
edit: and yes, please stop asking and digging about her second job. It's precisely that kind of garbage that lead to this mess. It's not your business.
NormalFish
Banned
Why is saying negative things about rape inflammatory? You lost me.
If I ran a business and my employees said something positive about rape, I'd fire them, though.
I still have no idea why you post in these threads given you clearly do not put any sort of effort to educate yourself.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Perhaps your sources on the subject matter should be better than KotakuInAction, because you clearly have not been paying attention at all.
A male employee of Nintendo would never have had dirt dug up on them by GG in the first place. This has been proven time and time again.
Exactly. I was on /v/ back in 2006, this is shit they could have or would have pulled back then. Nothing has changed, but social media becoming mainstream has given them near unlimited targets and resources to research to attack people with.
https://twitter.com/alisonrapp/status/715362765326553088
That's the tweet that's missing from the OP.
But basically read the QuixoticNeutral post.
I think the focus needs to be on what can be done to stop the harassment/GG going forward (and whether Nintendo being publicly supportive of Rapp earlier would have helped that), and not whether Nintendo should have fired her or not.
I am speculating here, but I think another treehouse employee snitched on her? Remember, treehouse are the same group of people who made changes to xenoblade and fire EMBLEM over the smallest shit?
Alison had nothing to do with that from what I understand? If anything, she would be AGAINST those changes. I am guessing a hater among the treehouse employees outed her personal hobby to Nintendo, and boom! The hater gets what he/she wants.
Just taking a shot in the dark. Awful for someone to lose their job tho. Man...
Alison had nothing to do with that from what I understand? If anything, she would be AGAINST those changes. I am guessing a hater among the treehouse employees outed her personal hobby to Nintendo, and boom! The hater gets what he/she wants.
Just taking a shot in the dark. Awful for someone to lose their job tho. Man...
cartographer
Member
A man in her position likely wouldn't have been a target of the same coordinated harassment campaign that targeted Rapp, which spawned pretty much all of this.
So maybe the result would have been the same if Nintendo found out, but Nintendo would be less likely to find out without the increased scrutiny that came with the situation, and that scrutiny is directly connected to Rapp's gender.
I'm not sure what there is to "soul search" about. We know what the problems are.
People are shitbags and "gamers" are comprised of immature twats who have the power of internet anonymity.
This isn't going to change.
It's pretty telling - and damning - that being critical of rape culture is considered to be an inflammatory position in the video game industry.
Dangansona
Member
I think we can assume he is saying this action would be taken by the company if they were aware of it regardless of the GG part.
CenturionKei
Banned
She was fired for her thesis right? Which was, in a very weird sort of way, defending child porn. That's pretty cut and dry to me.
She's a PR person. If I was Nintendo, and one of my employee's wrote somthing like that. I would sack them too.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
It shouldn't be, but Nintendo is conservative as fuuuuuuck.
I mean, this is a company whose initial response to the whole Tomodachi Life gay marriage stuff was "We didn't include gay marriage because we didn't want to make any sort of political statement", which is unbelievably tone deaf and insulting.
Gotdatmoney
Member
hahahahaha yeah no. Gamer gate isn't gonna go after a male like this. No way in hell.
did you even read the OP?
Which isn't necessarily exclusive to gamer culture. This is right-winged astroturfing that stuff like Breitbart and Fox News live off and propagate. Same tactics used when it comes to abortion rights, Black Lives Matter, LBGTQ rights, workers rights, fair working condition, economic equality, and so forth.
The difference lies in how the games industry and media respond to this Astro turfing. So far, we've mostly seen silence, whitewashing, or throwing people under the bus.
Therein lies the problem. Nintendo is perpetuating the problem.
No she was not. Read the OP.
She says she wasn't fired for that and Nintendo says she wasn't fired for that.
Only if you force what I said out of context. I don't know what her other job was.
In my example a fellow employee of mine was fired for a visible tattoo. It doesn't matter if I, or you, think that is silly. My company's rules state that you may not have one to represent them. I don't think the business I work for owes me anything and I respect their rules.
I don't have a clue if she actually did something she shouldn't have. If she did then they can fire her. Period.
If it's BS, and can be proven BS..then she could fight it.
I hope she lands right side up either way. Don't twist my words to fit or start an argument.
You're right but it looks like nothing will change in the near future if at all. We need more companies and media outlets coming out in support of the women in the industry, and I mean real support not canned PR responses, but it seems like that will never happen. In a few weeks almost everyone will forget about Rapp being fired just like every other incident.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Tons of people make very similar thesises. That's the point of these things, to make a defense for something that is considered by most to be a bad defense (ie, defending the position that marriage is between a man and a woman). The thesis posed that criminalizing child porn is not an effective way to fix the problem - it was not a thesis in defense of the existence of child porn.
So yes, please, do any research.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Wish her the best of luck.
These are fair points, but it needs to be noted that she didn't get fired for pushing boundaries. Nintendo was seemingly willing to overlook a lot before somebody brought whatever her second job was to their attention.
charlequin
Banned
It's not even that "GamerGate" as an organization is a thing (because lots of people will deny that it as a standalone entity is involved with any given case), it's that the techniques used by the full-on #GamerGate movement in 2014 have been proven to work and adapted by a broader, more diffuse network of misogynist harassers and general-purpose shitheads.
Yes, this has been mishandled at almost every level by Nintendo. Companies with a decent overall public-relations strategy get out in front of this stuff and protect their own employees from external harassment; companies with mealy-mouthed, craven middle-managers making these calls windowseat and fire people for it.
no, no she wasn't.
CambriaRising
Member
You could at least read the op in the thread you're posting in before spewing ignorance.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Man this story has more twists that a pretzel. I hope she lands on her feet soon. Nothing more that I think I can really contribute here other than the obligatory, "fuck GG". That group made Nintendo find a reason to put her under a lamp and she lost her position ultimately because of that. If not for the GG thing it's pretty clear we wouldn't be talking about her and she wouldn't have been fired.
Seems fairly logical and indisputable at this point.
Seems fairly logical and indisputable at this point.
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