Unknown Soldier
Member
So basically we're giving credit card companies unlimited power to control and censor the Internet this is going to end well
Steam rules updated to prohibit content that violates rules set forth by payment processors and banks
- Thread starter Peroroncino
- Start date
GreenAlien
Member
Not sure if that would have helped, according to AI it's like this: "when you buy a game on Steam with a credit card, your credit card company typically only sees that you made a purchase from Steam, not the specific game you bought. The transaction will usually appear on your statement as something like "Steam Purchase" or "Valve Corp," along with the amount charged."
DryvBy
Member
PCMR, kiss the ring.
Actually though, I don't like the idea of them having control over this because this is usually how these things work. They come after weird loli creepy mentally ill incest games, then they have some kind of activist take it and run with it. Games like Postal will eventually be pulled. And since we own digital, we don't own anything on PC anymore.
Actually though, I don't like the idea of them having control over this because this is usually how these things work. They come after weird loli creepy mentally ill incest games, then they have some kind of activist take it and run with it. Games like Postal will eventually be pulled. And since we own digital, we don't own anything on PC anymore.
bender
What time is it?
It would be another buffer and technically you could avoid payment processors all together in some countries as you can exchange cash for Steam wallet cards.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Which sister, the regular one or the Hot one?
GHound
Member
And then like always the weirdos come out to defend it or even demand more restrictions because... I don't know, I guess they don't like LARPers? "You must be this much actual sex pest to enjoy artistic freedoms.
"
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IFireflyl
Gold Member
Card networks operate globally, and some jurisdictions have strict or ambiguous laws around adult content. That includes the following:
Additionally, financial institutions and card processors are subject to anti-money laundering laws, human trafficking laws, and child exploitation statutes, which can be triggered if adult content isn't strictly controlled.
On top of that, adult content carries a higher risk of fraud and chargebacks, and this translates to a cost for the financial institutions and card processors. Adult content transactions have a higher risk of having stolen cards used for purchases, having users later deny that they made the purchase, and chargebacks/disputes due to embarrassment or deception. High chargeback rates can cause a platform to be flagged as "high risk," which raises processing fees or even leads to termination of service.
The last sentence explains why Valve could elect to remove certain types of content. If pervert games (don't be offended by the truth) are being purchased with fraudulent cards at a higher rate than other games, or if chargebacks are occurring at a higher rate than other games, it is in Valve's best interest to nix these types of games so that their relationship with card processors isn't put at risk. This is also in the best interest of everyone else who isn't buying these pervert games.
TL;DR - This isn't card processors making arbitrary decisions to restrict the content that users are allowed to consume, and Valve isn't engaging in censorship by removing these games. There are legal issues at play that people are not considering, and Valve has to ensure that their relationship with card processors remains solid in order to avoid potential disruptions for their users who aren't dirty, wiener-spanking perverts.
- Depictions of non-consensual acts (even if simulated/fictional)
- Incest themes
- Characters appearing underage
- Extreme violence or fetish material
Additionally, financial institutions and card processors are subject to anti-money laundering laws, human trafficking laws, and child exploitation statutes, which can be triggered if adult content isn't strictly controlled.
On top of that, adult content carries a higher risk of fraud and chargebacks, and this translates to a cost for the financial institutions and card processors. Adult content transactions have a higher risk of having stolen cards used for purchases, having users later deny that they made the purchase, and chargebacks/disputes due to embarrassment or deception. High chargeback rates can cause a platform to be flagged as "high risk," which raises processing fees or even leads to termination of service.
The last sentence explains why Valve could elect to remove certain types of content. If pervert games (don't be offended by the truth) are being purchased with fraudulent cards at a higher rate than other games, or if chargebacks are occurring at a higher rate than other games, it is in Valve's best interest to nix these types of games so that their relationship with card processors isn't put at risk. This is also in the best interest of everyone else who isn't buying these pervert games.
TL;DR - This isn't card processors making arbitrary decisions to restrict the content that users are allowed to consume, and Valve isn't engaging in censorship by removing these games. There are legal issues at play that people are not considering, and Valve has to ensure that their relationship with card processors remains solid in order to avoid potential disruptions for their users who aren't dirty, wiener-spanking perverts.
If we knew nothing, then a few of your arguments could apply (yet I seriously doubt that Steam gets hit with chargebacks quite as much, in comparison to other platforms, since it has reasonable refund policies and it's not an adult only website, plus it has relevant features such as hiding games in your library).
However...when you do the research and realize that the payment processors didn't suddenly wake up in the middle of the night, but were intentionally triggered by a mass e-mail campaign organized to turn them against Steam that was recently carried out by a radical feminist organization in Australia, a group that is against pornography in all of its forms (see my previous post above and you can look up their previous activities online too)...then many of those explanations are of limited applicability in this case.
The text below was from just a few days ago and they've since posted even more about it:
It wasn't "oh no, Steam is facing a lot of chargebacks for adult purchases" (again, very unlikely as a matter of principle), but the result of malicious actors poisoning the well. They rely on the fallacy that something happening in a game means you're somehow in favor of a similar thing taking place in reality. That's not true when fictional characters are killed by the thousands in GTA, and it's also not true in these other games either.
For that matter...
More on that person:
Melinda Tankard Reist - Wikipedia
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Danny22
Member
So what's the solution here? Payment processors decide what we can consume in many other areas. Hell, they were about shut off porn in OnlyFans were it not for the backlash.
Visa and Mastercard have a monopoly and they want to look presentable and avoid controversies hence ruining other people's livelihoods considered beneath them.
I would personally say get a payment processor that specifically has a 'everythings allowed unless illegal' like probiller for porn sites. Idk who or why anybody will set it up tho.
Visa and Mastercard have a monopoly and they want to look presentable and avoid controversies hence ruining other people's livelihoods considered beneath them.
I would personally say get a payment processor that specifically has a 'everythings allowed unless illegal' like probiller for porn sites. Idk who or why anybody will set it up tho.
Danny22
Member
Tiktok is kind of a wild west of the internet today, probably partly why it's so popular with the youth. You can pretty much find anything despite the rules (creative ppl use loopholes and there are many on it)
Peroroncino
Member
And they already had GTAV in their crosshairs once.. It seems like it worked this time, ffs - since like I mentioned, it wasn't possible in some territories to pay on steam with PayPal for a few days now. And... oh, what's this:
What is PayPal’s policy on transactions that involve sexually oriented goods and services? | PayPal US
PayPal allows US transactions for physical sexually oriented goods only within the country. No transactions are permitted for digital goods or involving minors.
The first one is VERY worrying, as it's pretty broad.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I do think you are underestimating this. Fringe material is how the rule is accepted and put in place. After that you lost all the bargaining power and the way things shake up is self censoring driven by multiple interested parties making it even murkier to trace back from a user perspective why and what is happening.
It started with pressure put on payment processors to be responsible for what individuals do with their money (instead of individuals…), of course it started with noble intent, and now payment processors are applying pressures on stores, etc…
There is a much longer history of this problem and it is an older level of control rebranded… effectively some people seem ok or happy to put more and more power in essentially stateless corporations thinking the democratic process can take / control it (and even there obfuscating even more what censorship get effectively applied with more and more indirect levels)…
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crackajack
Member
Those anti freedom lobby groups are terrible, leading us directly in some Demolition Man / Equilibrium / 1984 / Brave New World jail.
Anything sexualised, any violance, alcohol and drugs, offensive jokes.... they hate pretty much everything and essentially love dictatorships without realising it.
"The West" was successful because we had and fought for decent freedom, while other regions suffered from repressive mind policing and these dumbasses fight to get us there too. smh
Anything sexualised, any violance, alcohol and drugs, offensive jokes.... they hate pretty much everything and essentially love dictatorships without realising it.
"The West" was successful because we had and fought for decent freedom, while other regions suffered from repressive mind policing and these dumbasses fight to get us there too. smh
Vlodril
Member
When you have a monopoly you break it up. Governments should at least but you know. Maybe the solution will be crypto but i doubt it.
Poppinfresh
Member
Cash and Crypto
Disbanding and demolishing the Federal Reserve would be a good start too.
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Edgelord79
Gold Member
Thank you for the adult explanation to this, not that anyone will notice cause they're be too busy screaming woke, DEI, etc
Yerd
Member
You can find out on my fan page at mysisterviolentlypegsme.gov
Topher
Identifies as young
Perhaps. Too much slippery slope fallacy in all of this for me, but not really interested in engaging in this further. It is not really a gaming topic.
Nikodemos
Member
That woman sounds like some reactionary Neoprotestant masquerading as a radfem.
Sonik
Member
Feminism is a cult, people like her just believe in a different religion that is equally or often even more prude than Christian fundies specifically when it comes to content aimed at men. Content aimed at women like books though can be as rapey and degenerate as they like, in fact the cult promotes that as "empowering"
Nikodemos
Member
"Feminism" isn't monolithic. There are multiple various versions of it, some of which are actually adversaries.
What I find it highly curious, is how old, decrepit second-gen feminism, with its censor-happy militant radicalism, its exclusionary prudishness, its lack of (desire to accept) nuance, made a recent comeback.
It's as if some bad-faith background actors have been signal-boosting it for their own purposes...........
Poppinfresh
Member
I could probbably answer that but my answer would definitely break the "no politics" rule.
Sonik
Member
You're kind of right, I should have said cults, not cult. The point is though that every iteration is just as hateful and authoritarian towards men as the next one
Nikodemos
Member
Hah, gottem. If you look on the "Partners" page of that Collective Shout group, you'll see an absolute shitton of reactionary religious organizations, like the National Center on Sexual Exploitation, The Rite Journey, Bodies Endangered, Compassion In Jesus' Name etc.
They're 100% reactionaries.
They're 100% reactionaries.
Kacho
Gold Member
Fahdis
Member
Oh I don't know, maybe the posters that have already went down the whole let's blame feminist groups and "anti freedom" groups for this rather than seeing this as big corpos just covering their asses
Scroll up a bit and you'll see what I'm talking about
Kacho
Gold Member
So your issue isn't people screaming woke and DEI. It's them calling out a feminist group for doing something they are literally doing. Your "etc" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Are you a male feminist by chance?
Nikodemos
Member
That's absolutely not true for 3rd wave "slutwalk" feminism. It's the reason why it was fought against so bitterly by those forces who would prefer sowing discord for their own gain.
Antagonism towards men is a characteristic of 2nd wave feminism and its recent signal-boosted degenerate offshoots. This makes it attractive to reactionary Neoprotestants (since the orgs I mentioned above are majoritarily Neoprotestant) as a donkey's jaw (to speak Biblically). Hence why they are currently astroturfing this specific form of feminism, by putting a bunch of otherwise unlikeable people in the spotlight: its militantism, vehemence, and adversarialism appeals to their goals. And the more people engage with their tarbaby, the fewer who instead look behind the curtain.
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Poppinfresh
Member
He seems not to want to admit who the payment processors are "covering their asses" from...
Hint: It's not the right/religious right. They have never been a big enough threat to make something like this happen.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
From the first page:
It is ironic that after you called A AMC124c41 a male feminist,
Poppinfresh
jumped on the attack bandwagon even though he is one of the people directly tied to the statement
A
AMC124c41
initially made.Then of course this page was littered with the "it's changing because of radical feminism" theory. And while that could be true, it's just conjecture. My post provided factual information that has nothing to do with "agendas". Maybe that's not what prompted the changes, but I'm content knowing that I am not pointing the fingers at different parties and accusing them of being directly responsible when the only evidence for that is circumstantial.
Having said all of that, I do agree with the intent of your original question, which was (I believe) to indicate that most of this thread doesn't center around anti-woke, anti-DEI, or anti-"agenda" speech.
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Kacho
Gold Member
Is that screeching about DEI or was he using it as an example about how these things are slippery slopes?
The male feminist I quoted made it sound like the entire thread was full Poppinfresh's, when in reality he was just mad about people calling out the feminist group.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
I identify with all of these attributes except "feminism", and even that is something I agree with as long as it doesn't do anything in excess of, "Women should not be treated as inferior to men." Pornography is terrible for your brain and your sex life. Many prostitutes are sex trafficked, and it's an extremely unhealthy lifestyle to engage in (both from the prostitute, and the person paying for the prostitute). Abortion is murder. Feminism (the specific statement that I used previously) is just about treating women properly. I think everyone should be against violence against men, women, children, and animals.
That isn't the gotcha that you think it is.
I edited my post to provide more context. Sorry, I should have waited until my response was fully fleshed out before posting it.
First, my main goal was to clarify that this isn't happening in isolation nor due the standard risks associated with adult transactions. It's part of an intentional campaign, which started in the fallout of the "No Mercy" controversy. Once that's established, knowing more about the most likely culprits becomes relevant to understand their reasoning.
Second, you can personally believe whatever you want. As long as you're not breaking any laws, it's a matter of your private beliefs. That also applies to whatever you think of pornography. However, if you're publicly campaigning to impose your ethics on others, like in this particular case, then you should be prepared to be put under further scrutiny.
Third, we're not discussing abortion and other issues here, but disclosing that these are puritan, right-leaning "feminists" is perfectly appropriate. Why? Because these people have made clear they're not only against certain types of porn. They want to ban or restrict all pornography as one of their long term goals. You might like that, but many others won't.
They initially wanted to get GTA V removed from various stores because of "violence against women". Then they campaigned against "No Mercy". Now they're calling on payment processors to stop dealing with Steam unless they remove more objectionable content, regardless of whether it's illegal or not. All in the name of "protecting children" or "protecting women", when their ultimate objective is incredibly prude and narrow-minded. Maybe you find yourself on the same ideological side as these particular individuals, yet that is hardly what most gamers will agree with.
In other cases, puritanism has come from the left. Such as when, say, they criticize the classic design of Tomb Raider's Lara Croft as sexist. That's not where this is coming from.
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Zacfoldor
Member
These activist feminists at Collective Shout and elsewhere make me physical ill. What a sickening group of busybodies.
I'm sure they are all real gamers. /s
Cuckin credit card processors are worse. I thought we had the blockchain for this?
Where is Elon with the solution to this? He invented Paypal! Elon, bruh, help.
How bout a game licensing platform that is decentralized and can take any key but you pay in bitcoin?
I'm sure they are all real gamers. /s
Cuckin credit card processors are worse. I thought we had the blockchain for this?
Where is Elon with the solution to this? He invented Paypal! Elon, bruh, help.
How bout a game licensing platform that is decentralized and can take any key but you pay in bitcoin?
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I'm not a "male feminist" I just treat other people as what they are, actual people indifferent of their genitals or other silly differentiators. Everyone has the ability to be an asshole or a decent human being no matter their genitals, etc.
I just take people as they come and try to leave preconceptions at the door and that way of being makes reactions like the one in this thread stand out like a sore thumb. Some people are really far down some rabbit holes and they try to twist reality to fit their now twisted world view.
At the end of the day this is a corporate mandated change to Steam and it comes from the singular thing they have ever cared about, money. If they think they're liable to lose money they will make the appropriate changes not because some extremist feminist groups are yelling and crying about it.
The sooner people on all sides of these silly gender wars start realising this the sooner we'll all be able to focus on proper issues not dumb shit like do you have a willie or a vagene between your legs.
Does that make me a "male feminist"?
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1726376545){kind=avatar}
Mhmmm 2077
Member
It's fucking video games AKA fiction, why is this an issue at all?
Steam has given more of their own view of things:
www.gamingonlinux.com
Which seems to confirm my previous posts on the subject. That said, you can tell Valve isn't banning the developers themselves. Quite the contrary.
Having said that...you know these radical puritan feminists aren't going to stop at only "certain games" being removed. That would be almost reasonable!
Valve gets pressured by payment processors with a new rule for game devs and various adult games removed
Valve have added a new rule to the Onboarding guide for game developers, noting that payment processors get a say in what stays on Steam.
www.gamingonlinux.com
Which seems to confirm my previous posts on the subject. That said, you can tell Valve isn't banning the developers themselves. Quite the contrary.
Having said that...you know these radical puritan feminists aren't going to stop at only "certain games" being removed. That would be almost reasonable!
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Nikodemos
Member
Which one?
Pantz
Member
Well, 2 counting Trials of Innocence (Phoenix Wright knockoff game).
And Train Capacity 300%. Coincidentally it has an 2D art style some what similar to the Phoenix Wright games. It also had some 3D gameplay that looked interesting for a VN. It was a full $60 cost game. I didn't look into it too much but you probably get up to no good on the train. The sequel, Train Capacity 300% 2 is still available lol. Also $60.
Starbuck2907
Member
Is this U.S., E.U. or global?
it's a slippery slope once you let a bank tell you what you can and can't do with your money.
it's a slippery slope once you let a bank tell you what you can and can't do with your money.
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