Beerman462
Member
Edit. I'm feeling pretty dumb this morning. I understand what you were getting at now. My apologies.
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Edit. I'm feeling pretty dumb this morning. I understand what you were getting at now. My apologies.
ah if it's late q1 2017, then they're definitely shoving it out the door before the end of their fiscal year. i wonder why instead of having it in late 2017 and letting the ps4 ride 2017 at $300 or less?
SmiteOfHand
Member
This thread would be a whole lot different if all the people going on about the woes this brings for development started their post with "I'm not a developer, but..."
Aztechnology
Member
If you're mad about the move, then don't move? I really don't get it. it's like having a PC with a 750ti vs a 970. Sure, the graphics and FPS go up but it doesn't make your current PC any less viable.
Night Angel
Member
Sacrifices from the PS4k experience.
Which could literally mean anything. Given that devs currently choose to sacrifice effects, textures, lighting, and such from the PC version to deliver a 1080p (usually) 30fps (usually) experience on the PS4, I'd imagine the same exact sacrifices will take place to offer the same experience PS4 owners are currently getting.
The PS4 spec hasn't changed. High end PCs are always changing. Now another new, better (but still not top of the line) configuration exists. What has changed from a dev perspective?
Fess
Member
Just this new info from the OP or the whole PS4.5/PS4K rumor that started like a month ago?
If it's the first scenario then the joke will still likely be reality in some form and the hahaaa would turn into cries anyway. If it's the second scenario then bravo GAF mods, brutal but still the best april fools joke in a decade.
SneakyStephan
Banned
40 million people who expected the game to look like that on their system get to know that they have to spend 400$+ to play it at that quality
But this is literally every third party game already.
They show trailers at some insane downsampled resolution (that even people with good pcs can't run) and at maxed pc settings (targetted at hardware more powerful than this ps4k rumor)
That's if they're nice and don't simply false advertise the game completely like ubisoft loves to do.
The OP mentioned GoW4 being a game developed with the specs in mind and March is the traditional GoW release window so a launch to coincide would make sense. However, I'm getting less confident in the info the more I think about it.
They have already hinted at doing the same.
One change of simple word can make me think they will have graphic profiles for each device instead of losing my shit like a lot of people here. So to me it was not stated plainly. "To" means a game will run like shit. "For" means a game may look like shit, comparatively.
Makes me think they are going for a 2-2.4ghz jaguar clock and just down clocking to 1.6 for normal mode. This is why a profile makes sense to me.
I swear there are so many knee jerk reactions in this thread that are so obtuse. It will work just like PC games now except devs will dial in the sweet spot for you. E.g. consoles will be turn on and go, the sole reason why the market exists in the first place.
i also expect that gow4 would be a good launch title for it, but i wonder why they wouldn't just let ps vr breathe more unless they didn't really have a ton of faith in it.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Activision had no problems selling the only version of BLOPS3 worthy of a mention to less than 40M people while shafting a userbase of 170M which had smashing software sales just the year before.
Fair enough. I wonder if Sony sees lost sales as some wait for this new console.
Marty Chinn
Member
It's about targeting your game to a specific set of specs. When those specs are fragmented by having multiple configurations, then there's no longer one single spec that everyone targets. Nobody makes a game that fully exploits a Titan because then only a Titan would be able to run that game and the market isn't there for only a Titan to run that game. The Titan may be used to get better framerates, higher resolution, but it's never fully exploited now in a game. That's where you see an advantage in a console. It's a known target that everyone has. It's one of the primary reasons the bar level takes a big jump at the beginning of a new console generation because it is now the primary target that can be used against multiple consoles and PCs. So an iterative console loses a console staple of a known common target.
timmyp53
Member
Wouldn't the exact opposite be the argument for not owning a PS4 and not the PS4k?
I think going on 2.5 to 3 years we're no longer early adopters but console owners getting screwed with a stupid new profit scheme. This is not the same as requested expansion pak for n64. This is essentially a new console less than 2.5 years into a generation. Goes beyond even the slim if it ha's greater cpu and gpu capabilities essentially creating two tiers of console owners.
Night Angel
Member
I've already said in this thread that making exclusives for the PS4k would get me to buy a pitchfork. Cutting content rather than visual effects to make a game work on the PS4 makes no sense, and to imply that is likely is ridiculous.
No way. I bought my PS4 mainly for the exclusives, and the ones I'm interested in are mostly releasing this year. So far I've basically only completed Second Son, which was a huge disappointment and Bloodborne, which is unarguably a masterpiece.
Still wouldn't have hurt my gamer life to stick with my PC and skip completely the PS4. Considering I'd be able to buy the PS4K in 2017 when the games I want would be even cheaper.
"If you don't mind waiting for price drops why didn't you just wait to buy the PS4 then?" Because I went overseas and it was a steal compared to the price on my country.
presagetogood
Member
New hardware and new product is generally am exciting and enticing concept in consumerist economies....so when software and experiences start to fail to excite, the platform holder makes promises of new experiences made possible through elusive new hardware to get the compulsive side of human nature, the side that has to have what it doesn't have, full of anticipation.
This is what the promise of moving to x86 based processors meant...that Playstation and Xbox would become ecosystems with forever compatible hardware.
Both Sony and Ms seem to realize that the new frontiers for exciting experiences lie in virtual reality and stronger graphics possibilities. They are not going to deprive 60 million new gen console users of the experience they are already getting;they're not just going to abandon the existing user base, or let developers release shoddy ports....
Releasing high end hardware means they can lower the entry price for the base line consoles, make them more mass market....hell MS probably already has a plan in place to use xb1 as a remote play device for xb1.5, similar to how windows can play xb1 games.
If anything, what they're looking to do is to excite hardcore enthusiasts, giving them something new to talk about and eventually experience. But the gaming hardcore enthusiasts embody the obsessive, isolated psychological profiles of any hobby gone too deep.
I can see why some of you would be worried about not being part of the best experience...but it's also just thinking for thinking sake...thinking gone way too far....you're not losing a limb or a loved one...
This is what the promise of moving to x86 based processors meant...that Playstation and Xbox would become ecosystems with forever compatible hardware.
Both Sony and Ms seem to realize that the new frontiers for exciting experiences lie in virtual reality and stronger graphics possibilities. They are not going to deprive 60 million new gen console users of the experience they are already getting;they're not just going to abandon the existing user base, or let developers release shoddy ports....
Releasing high end hardware means they can lower the entry price for the base line consoles, make them more mass market....hell MS probably already has a plan in place to use xb1 as a remote play device for xb1.5, similar to how windows can play xb1 games.
If anything, what they're looking to do is to excite hardcore enthusiasts, giving them something new to talk about and eventually experience. But the gaming hardcore enthusiasts embody the obsessive, isolated psychological profiles of any hobby gone too deep.
I can see why some of you would be worried about not being part of the best experience...but it's also just thinking for thinking sake...thinking gone way too far....you're not losing a limb or a loved one...
Papacheeks
Banned
What i would like clarification on so far, is the God of war 4 reference. If that game is being targeted for PS4K, then what they hell have they been developing on for the past 2 years?
And if they are going to use GOW4 as a showcase for PS4K, how is the PS4 version going to fair?
That's straight up garbage. It feels like Sony has no confidence in their system, and is using their playstation division to help sell a 4k future in their TV'S, PHONES, gaming systems and VR.
This is a dark road, one hopefully people voice their opinions on and one hopefully is talked about by them to the public. GOW 4 for PS4 better still be amazing.
And if they are going to use GOW4 as a showcase for PS4K, how is the PS4 version going to fair?
That's straight up garbage. It feels like Sony has no confidence in their system, and is using their playstation division to help sell a 4k future in their TV'S, PHONES, gaming systems and VR.
This is a dark road, one hopefully people voice their opinions on and one hopefully is talked about by them to the public. GOW 4 for PS4 better still be amazing.
The leak really fucked them. If they were really planning for a release next year they probably would not have talked about it until way closer to actual release. All this information getting out ahead of time only hurts current console sales. Probably not to a crazy extent but still it sucks for them to have that news out there.
They can't exactly move up the release either. All attention is going to be on PSVR this holiday.
I guess you're more of an optimist than I am, man. Time will tell. For what it's worth, I hope your right about all this.
Marty Chinn
Member
This is different than what he's saying though. You're still talking generations. Iterative consoles that are more like a PC or mobile device market means you no longer have generations but constant updated systems with more powerful spec. The problem in this thread and other threads is there are four business models and everyone is talking about different ones. Those business models are the current one, one where you get a mid generation update, one where you get a multiple generation update, and then one where generations no longer exist and you just get periodic updates. Everyone is talking about different things and each model has a different impact on how things play out.
Big Shirtless Ron
Member
You keep saying "optimize" but I don't understand what that really means to you. Can you explain? Further, we can look at a lot of 3rd party games that are being released with performance issues, but run to a certain standard (usually 900-1080p @ varying frame rates, but nothing too drastic). Do you believe developers will release games below that standard (720p and below ~15 fps)? And why? This PS4K isn't a PS3 > PS4 jump in power, nor is it a change in architecture, so I don't really get some of the reactions. I could, however, understand it if games were made exclusively for 4K.
Mister Megative
Banned
As am I. That's awfully sensitive, R&D info to be casually tossed around in a retailer meeting. I just.....this seems like a huge misstep. I wanna believe Sony isn't this dumb. Now I'm wondering if the info is even real.
Yeah, PS4K tosses all of that out the window.
I guess this is the beginning of incremental upgrades to consoles. While I do approve (should be easy enough to flip my PS4 for ~$200 when the time comes), I'm just not sure how popular this will be or if they're planning on having multiple SKUs on the market on top of the current ones. Can see this being very confusing if they don't get their marketing right, which they probably won't.
I'm glad they decided to address the, frankly, lacking power of the system sooner rather than waiting and releasing a completely new platform, hopefully they can continue this and never have another hard launch of a new generation of platform and the games will just be forward/backward (to a degree) compatible for each new hardware cycle like the Apple App Store. That being said, I hope they drop the PS4K moniker quickly, there's no way even if it has twice the GPU power that it's going to be able to offer any kind of decent 4k gaming experience for games with the same level of fidelity as current PS4 games.
I'm glad they decided to address the, frankly, lacking power of the system sooner rather than waiting and releasing a completely new platform, hopefully they can continue this and never have another hard launch of a new generation of platform and the games will just be forward/backward (to a degree) compatible for each new hardware cycle like the Apple App Store. That being said, I hope they drop the PS4K moniker quickly, there's no way even if it has twice the GPU power that it's going to be able to offer any kind of decent 4k gaming experience for games with the same level of fidelity as current PS4 games.
Papacheeks
Banned
And how is that any different from any cross generational period? PS2 was getting shitty ports of games while PS3 was the primary candidate after 2007.
This is a different situation, the generation just started 2.5 years ago, we just now are getting big first party titles, and new third party IP's. And they want to shoe horn a new mid gen console so PSVR, 4k TV's will be sold.
Why not wait gradually and make the refresh just for upscale 4k resolution and Ultra Bluray playback?
Instead on actually increasing the specs like GPU. That should be in a New generational console not something that's a refresh because they had little faith or thought in making sure games would run correctly on it for 4-5 years.
So many people complained about weak consoles, now people complain that they're planning stronger versions. Personally I don't wanna be stuck with subHD games until 2020, Xbox needs this upgrade more than PS, but if both can get in the 4 Tf ballpark maybe this gen will finally feel like a substantial upgrade over last.
It's a bit ironic...
Console owner buys a console for the exclusives, experiences, doesn't need top of the line graphics because its good enough (otherwise they would have gotten a PC)
-- PS4K is leaked --
Console owner feels slighted because they won't have the best graphics for games while they still will have great experiences and exclusives.
Console owner buys a console for the exclusives, experiences, doesn't need top of the line graphics because its good enough (otherwise they would have gotten a PC)
-- PS4K is leaked --
Console owner feels slighted because they won't have the best graphics for games while they still will have great experiences and exclusives.
Papacheeks
Banned
People complaining about weak consoles are graphic whores and PC people who want top of the line tech in every console. When it's never been about that, there's always a compromise with consoles.
And these constraints force developers to make games more creatively. I see amazing titles coming this year and into 2017.
It makes no sense, and also makes even less sense since I never hear indie, first party or otherwise complaining on compute power with PS4.
Marty Chinn
Member
This is missing what one of the fears is. It's not simply that there's another system with better graphics. It's the fear that their version of the game is going to get the shaft and negatively impact them as a result. That's the fear.
travisbickle
Member
Come on. The difference between PS4 and 4.5 won't be that large, no way near a PS3-4 difference. I'm sure that when the specs are revealed, a lot of people will question the difference-to-price ratio. Then they'll be devs fucking up and releasing games that aren't noticeably different, as there are devs now fucking up the PS4 version.
Honestly I see the biggest issue as actually Sony trying to market this thing and not lose the audience through confusion.
That line of logic doesn't fly. In fact it is a straw man. The PS4 SDK is a black box. Having two known hardware configurations is more like having having two performance profiles on the ps4k vs 1 on the standard ps4. As long as traditional games can do 1080p/30-60 on different hardware with the same profile for ps4 no harm no foul.
If they want to make a game target the PS4k they can dial down the graphic fidelity on the ps4 profile to reach the same frame rate. Simple as that. The adjustment all PC gamers do when hardware gets outdated will be handled by the developers. Of course you have to put faith in the developers to do something that makes sense but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we are shown otherwise.
RadarScope1
Member
Great posts. The current console business model is from the 1970s. It's bound to change over time. The cry baby thrashing mystifies me. I attribute it to the incessant focus enthusiasts have on the new, new, new.
Omnistalgic
Member
I stand by what I said. The consoles lose nothing by this move and only gain one additional hardware configuration. Contrary to popular belief, this will not be a problem to the devs or to the general console gaming populous. The common target is not lost just because an additional target is added, that's ridiculous. The current common target just becomes the 'lowest target of two' and that apparently bothers you.
Marty Chinn summed it up pretty well a few comments back, but basically, Devs will push the PS4 as far as they can because that's the only choice they have if they want the console audience, and it leads to better and better looking games over time. Look at Uncharted 1 compared to The Last to Us, or GTA 4 compared to GTA V. The Devs pushed the PS3 as far as they could since there wasn't a more powerful option available. After the PS4 came out, we still got games on the PS3, but they were clearly designed with the PS4 in mind, and the PS3 versions of those games suffered heavily because of it. While it probably wouldn't be as extreme of a difference, I absolutely believe what the OP says about Devs more or less leaving the OG PS4 in the dust, and making the most of PS4K instead, while the PS4 suffers from "considerable sacrifices" that I don't believe would be necessary if Devs further optimized for the PS4, as they had with the PS3.
SmiteOfHand
Member
The difference is we are talking two hardware profiles compared to the hundreds if not thousands that exist for PC. Sony could release 3 specs yearly and it would still be nothing compared to how many targets exists for PC development.
Edit: Vinland is faster than I.