PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

Marty Chinn said:
This is missing what one of the fears is. It's not simply that there's another system with better graphics. It's the fear that their version of the game is going to get the shaft and negatively impact them as a result. That's the fear.
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Has that happened with xbox1, i would say the opposite is true. Ps4 being the stronger system has seen less optimization and has gotten by on simply being stronger.
 
Vinland said:
That line of logic doesn't fly. In fact it is a straw man. The PS4 SDK is a black box. Having two known hardware configurations is more like having having two performance profiles on the ps4k vs 1 on the standard ps4. As long as traditional games can do 1080p/30-60 on different hardware with the same profile for ps4 no harm no foul.

If they want to make a game target the PS4k they can dial down the graphic fidelity on the ps4 profile to reach the same frame rate. Simple as that. The adjustment all PC gamers do when hardware gets outdated will be handled by the developers. Of course you have to put faith in the developers to do something that makes sense but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we are shown otherwise.
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You're talking about this under the assumption there will only be two targets and that's it for this generation before a new generation takes place. The person I'm replying to is talking about moving away from a generational platform to an iterative platform which is what I'm addressing. What I'm saying is absolutely true if we no longer have generations and have frequent updates. We need not look any further than the PC and mobile market to see what specs are targeted relative to what the current most powerful hardware is out there.
 
FLAguy954 said:
I stand by what I said. The consoles lose nothing by this move and only gain one additional hardware configuration. Contrary to popular belief, this will not be a problem to the devs or to the general console gaming populous. The common target is not lost just because an additional target is added, that's ridiculous. The current common target just becomes the 'lowest target of two' and that apparently bothers you.
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Agree. I've seen people (not here as far as I know) use the word "port" to describe this scenario and reference PS4 to PS3 as a comparison.
 
RadarScope1 said:
Great posts. The current console business model is from the 1970s. It's bound to change over time. The cry baby thrashing mystifies me. I attribute it to the incessant focus enthusiasts have on the new, new, new.
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Or maybe the fact it's worked for years. And it;s only recently since tech has gotten cheaper for these platform holders that they can add themselves in with Nintendo for making a profit off of hardware.

This is the issue, is it seems more of a push to get people to buy into 4K.

And using gamer's to do it. N3DS didn't have the best reaction, and also hopefully is the way it will go with PS4 with not many developers adopting to make big differences between the versions of software.

But there always could be a hyrule warriors scenario and that's what has people in a tizzy.
 
My question is what's the difference between this and a PS5? Why not just call it that and say ps4 games work on it and they are still making ps4 games for now. ( I know it's easier to just do this, but why not go all the way?)

Honestly how fast tech changes these days I see console cycles being a lot shorter especially if they make multiplats with PC.(on games optimzed for PC then posted to console) PCs are getting cheaper to build and the graphics cards are becoming better and better every year. (Can't say that about CPUs though)

it's sad to me that the PS4 doesn't do 60fps and 1080p on all their games. If this next console does this I'll sell my ps4 and buy it even though I don't have a 4K set yet.
 
monegames said:
Has that happened with xbox1, i would say the opposite is true. Ps4 being the stronger system has seen less optimization and has gotten by on simply being stronger.
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Yes it has. Look at how the resolution drops on the Xbox One version and how often the framerate is less stable too. Even ignoring the fact that the Xbox One is sub 1080p, the framerate not being as stable as the PS4 version is most certainly an example of where the XB1 version is not the gold standard and takes a bit of a back seat.
 
Marty Chinn said:
You're talking about this under the assumption there will only be two targets and that's it for this generation before a new generation takes place. The person I'm replying to is talking about moving away from a generational platform to an iterative platform which is what I'm addressing. What I'm saying is absolutely true if we no longer have generations and have frequent updates. We need not look any further than the PC and mobile market to see what specs are targeted relative to what the current most powerful hardware is out there.
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That's fair and I agree. I could see reason down the line of there being a 'major revision' which would feel functionally similar to a generational change, but those will likely be few and far between.

e: but all the same, comparing this to PC in terms of hardware profiles is a tad disingenuous. Even mobile complexity is a stretch with what we know right now.
 
kc44135 said:
Marty Chinn summed it up pretty well a few comments back, but basically, Devs will push the PS4 as far as they can because that's the only choice they have if they want the console audience, and it leads to better and better looking games over time. Look at Uncharted 1 compared to The Last to Us, or GTA 4 compared to GTA V. The Devs pushed the PS3 as far as they could since there wasn't a more powerful option available. After the PS4 came out, we still got games on the PS3, but they were clearly designed with the PS4 in mind, and the PS3 versions of those games suffered heavily because of it. While it probably wouldn't be as extreme of a difference, I absolutely believe what the OP says about Devs more or less leaving the OG PS4 in the dust, and making the most of PS4K instead, while the PS4 suffers from "considerable sacrifices" that I don't believe would be necessary if Devs further optimized for the PS4, as they had with the PS3.
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TLoU, GTAV both ran sub 30FPS in an effort to push the hardware. So that optimization had its costs and wasn't as rosy a situation as you might remember it to be.
 
Mister Megative said:
As am I. That's awfully sensitive, R&D info to be casually tossed around in a retailer meeting. I just.....this seems like a huge misstep. I wanna believe Sony isn't this dumb. Now I'm wondering if the info is even real.
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The new and more powerful console is real. We have had multiple sources confirming the rumor. But GOW4 being developed for the PS4K being true is still up in the air, but it wouldn't shock me.
 
Jal said:
This thread

7fT3X1D.jpg
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Holy shit...
 
Marty Chinn said:
Yes it has. Look at how the resolution drops on the Xbox One version and how often the framerate is less stable too. Even ignoring the fact that the Xbox One is sub 1080p, the framerate not being as stable as the PS4 version is most certainly an example of where the XB1 version is not the gold standard and takes a bit of a back seat.
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I don't think the Xbox One would apply in this case, going by what Matt said earlier in the thread:

Matt said:
I don't think that's the right way to look at it. My understanding is, every game will have one SKU, and just two profiles for how to run.

Games won't be downported from the PS4k, just like they aren't downported from the PC to the PS4 now.

Or at least, that's the idea.
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To me this seems devs will have it easier than usual to port another version of their game.
 
I honestly don't get all the hand wringing about badly optimized games because of the existence of a more powerful ps4. If Sony doesn't release this ps4k console, vanilla ps4 owners would still be in the same situation when the xbox 1.5 releases. Does anyone really believe that Microsoft won't go all out creating a much more powerful xbox one this time around? Wouldn't we be in the same boat in that situation, when it comes to multplatform games?
Personally I am happy Sony is releasing this newer upgraded ps4, especially now that we know it will most likely release 5 or more months after psvr. Previously that was my only concern. Sony releasing two platforms in the same year, seemed like a really daft business decision. Would of cannibalized each others sales. If it get's released end of next year, that would be even better for me. Would give me time to save up :)
 
GameAddict411 said:
The new and more powerful console is real. We have had multiple sources confirming the rumor. But GOW4 being developed for the PS4K being true is still up in the air, but it wouldn't shock me.
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I'm talking about the more specific stuff. Like "significant compromises" to non PS4k games. Having a tough time believing that.
 
Marty Chinn said:
Yes it has. Look at how the resolution drops on the Xbox One version and how often the framerate is less stable too. Even ignoring the fact that the Xbox One is sub 1080p, the framerate not being as stable as the PS4 version is most certainly an example of where the XB1 version is not the gold standard and takes a bit of a back seat.
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That has to do with xbox1 being weaker than ps4. We have seen quite a few examples of games being optimized for xbox1 while ps4 has basically the same game, destiny comes to mind as does AC unity at launch. Being the gold standard has nothing to do with optimization and everything to do with hardware power.
 
Theoretically speaking... Polaris 10 w/ anywhere from 8GB-16GB GDDR5x or HBM1... with that massive bandwidth increase are we looking at 5-8TFlops?
 
Marty Chinn said:
This is missing what one of the fears is. It's not simply that there's another system with better graphics. It's the fear that their version of the game is going to get the shaft and negatively impact them as a result. That's the fear.
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I hear what you're saying.
I wouldn't be too upset if the PS4 version is the PC equivalent of medium and the PS4K is Ultra.
But if the game can barely run on the PS4 then that may upset some people.

I am very excited to see this thing at E3 (assuming it's there). Even if I decide not to buy it, I love new hardware announcements.
 
Omnii-chan said:
Holy fuck 2x GPU and way better CPU? I'm in for $499, that's a good price for that.

Also GT Sport using the better specs? Hell yes!

I really don't mind this model, I'm sure games will run as they have fine on current hard ware 1080/60/30 with good graphics, the PS4K will just be way closer to PC.
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Wouldnt it be nice to see GT Sport on the OG PS4 first?
 
pixellated_man said:
I honestly don't get all the hand wringing about badly optimized games because of the existence of a more powerful ps4. If Sony doesn't release this ps4k console, vanilla ps4 owners would still be in the same situation when the xbox 1.5 releases. Does anyone really believe that Microsoft won't go all out creating a much more powerful xbox one this time around? Wouldn't we be in the same boat in that situation, when it comes to multplatform games?
Personally I am happy Sony is releasing this newer upgraded ps4, especially now that we know it will most likely release 5 or more months after psvr. Previously that was my only concern. Sony releasing two platforms in the same year, seemed like a really daft business decision. Would of cannibalized each others sales. If it get's released end of next year, that would be even better for me. Would give me time to save up :)
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That's what I immediately thought, vanilla PS4 versions would run exactly like they would right now. But it's that "sacrifice" quote that has people pissed (I don't blame people who are worried at all) But to think that performance is just going to automatically turn to shit is just silly to me. Everything will run the same but the PS4K will just run it even better. Would 2x the amount of power even be THAT big of a difference?
 
timmyp53 said:
Thank all the graphics whores for the last 2+ years for getting into Sony's head.
and sony's tv division
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I don't it's so much that as the need to evolve past the "generational" mindset. An Apple product is an Apple product and you're pretty much guaranteed that apps that you already own will work on your next Apple device so long as there aren't any issues that would prevent it from working (no touch input on new device or screen too small). People are going digital in record numbers and the idea that in a few years they may not be able to play their games is a tough pill to swallow for many. The PS4 will still be able to play most if not all Playstation games for the next 4 or 5 years I'm sure, but it will probably have to sacrifice some visual fidelity on the older hardware just like multi-generational games do.

Once you have an ecosystem setup and you have people feel like they're invested in something they're more likely to keep coming back to it, it's been proven time and time again with the mobile revolution. I don't know many people who jump ship from iPhones to Android devices and vise-versa. Consoles have lost serious ground to mobile gaming, getting rid of generational upgrades and instead offering incremental upgrades over time means that consoles will no longer stagnate towards the end of their life-cycle because their life-cycle will only be defined by the end-user and their justifications of when they should upgrade. Instead of having a console that you put away, likely forever as you get older, and having no other way to play your favorite games will be a thing of the past since your library will be fully forwards-compatible with the next hardware upgrade.
 
SmiteOfHand said:
The difference is we are talking two hardware profiles compared to the hundreds if not thousands that exist for PC. Sony could release 3 specs yearly and it would still be nothing compared to how many targets exists for PC development.
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This.

Ps4 closed system loses nothing by having one additional hardware profile. In fact there may be significant gains by having 2 specs to code for, as the more powerful system will be optimized for and the less powerful system will be pushed to its limits.

Comparing it to the Infinite CPU, RAM, GPU, MOBO, OS combinations out there for pc's is quite a joke.
 
DarkStar189 said:
A $200 credit is still not good enough for me if we are looking at a $499 price tag like the OP stated it could be. I just preordered the PSVR for $499 thinking that was a great deal and extended my ps4's life even more. Now it's like a slap in the face seeing Eve and Gran Turismo Sport listed as being a "significant" upgrade listed in the OP.
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So you want game development stunted to spare your feelings?
 
If real.. Guess it will quite funny to go from one long-ass 7 years generation to just 3 years. It's not even half of the previous one.

To me, a significantly upgraded Ps4 or Xbone, even with all the backwards compatibilty stuff, means that somehow some games would be exclusive to the new one. And... that to me is a new gen.

I don't like one bit this situation, I bought Ps4 because I thought they were gonna go the same good old route of their previous consoles: full support for more than 5 years and exclusive first party devs optimizing their games to the max.
That's one thing I loooove about consoles. Seeing its hardware on fire after years of full support. It happened to the NES, SNES, Gameboy, Megadrive, Neo Geo, PS1, PS2, PS3 and a bunch more.

You bought the console and even after 6 or 7 years when the next gen was getting the new mindblowing stuff, you could also get a few exclusives for your old-ass system and say: "How come my SNES is running Yoshi's Island? I don't need no N64 with ugly ass polygons and blurry textures" or "My Megadrive's 68000 heart's on fire with Alien Soldier, Saturn Go Home!" or... "PS3 is a beast, God of War Ascension rocks, PS4 has no game!"

Mid-gen upgrades will basically eliminate that, which to me is one of the most important aspects of videogame systems.

But anyways... bearing in mind that NX is coming soon, the recent launch of the first Bluray UHD and the imminent rise of 4k displays... a Ps4k sounds reasonable. I don't like the mid-gen upgrade thing if it's true that it will be more powerful than the original Ps4, really, I don't like this one bit, but is ok.
 
Marty Chinn said:
You're talking about this under the assumption there will only be two targets and that's it for this generation before a new generation takes place. The person I'm replying to is talking about moving away from a generational platform to an iterative platform which is what I'm addressing. What I'm saying is absolutely true if we no longer have generations and have frequent updates. We need not look any further than the PC and mobile market to see what specs are targeted relative to what the current most powerful hardware is out there.
Click to expand...

Exaggerated specs like PC and especially android are nothing, absolutely nothing, like an iterative console market. Trying to draw similarities is setting up a straw man. Think iOS, not Windows or Android. Also, generations can live in an iterative system you just get a few more profiles to hit and wait for the hardware breakthroughs to happen to release a iteration cutoff that gives enough space between the drop off to be a "generation" shift.
 
Marty Chinn said:
The benefit is that the platform is a fixed target that developers fully exploit by pushing it to the limit. Other consumer electronics don't rely on a multi year development cycle to release something that works on it. Those things that do, are not fully exploited because they have to aim at a lower common denominator. If you start making yearly iterations on consoles, you then lose the advantages of a console, start including the problems of PCs and mobile devices, but lose all the advantages of a PC.
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But devs never fully push hardware unless you talking first party .
Do you think 3rd party devs try to push PS4 to the limit ?
Not to mention there also X1 to take into account and marketing deal etc etc .
Also pushing to the limit is not always a good thing since framerate always take a hit because of effects .


kc44135 said:
People keep saying this, but I don't agree. If the PS4K didn't exist, Devs would have to optimize for the PS4. Now, they'll optimize for the PS4K instead. We'll get games that look and run worse on PS4 than we would have if the option to upgrade didn't exist. That's the way it's always been. Don't believe me? Just look at the last couple years on PS3. It ain't pretty, man.
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Devs don't optimize for the consoles now why would PSK4 change that .
 
gundamkyoukai said:
But devs never fully push hardware unless you talking first party .
Do you think 3rd party devs try to push PS4 to the limit ?
Not to mention there also X1 to take into account and marketing deal etc etc .
Also pushing to the limit is not always a good thing since framerate always take a hit because of effects .
Click to expand...

This is how I'm trying to figure this out. You got a dev working on four versions of a game at once and they have to somehow build it to take advantage of the new PS4 which could be weaker or stronger than the new xbox while also making sure it's still good on the old consoles, which has a power gap itself.
 
pixellated_man said:
Correction: every 3 years and 4 months. If we are to believe the words of the op, on which this whole thread is based on.
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Yes but there weren't even any games worth buying the first few months. This gen was just starting to get interesting and they are just ending it abruptly. I know ps4 will be supported but we all know it will be play the second fiddle to the new system.
 
Dunlop said:
I'm lost at who this is marketed to that they see this as being a profitable venture and how they plan on avoiding "joe sixpack" customer confusion
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Dear Joe Sixpack,

This new console plays NFLcallofbattleFIFA19 better than your previous console, look at these Gfx WEEEEEEBANG!!!

$400 please, thank you.

Sony
 
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