PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

Finally some sense in this thread! As a dev I've been saying the same thing. I don't think he majority in this thread understand the extra work involved.
Also, as dev time can take 3-4 years what spec do developers target?

if we pretend PS4k isn't a thing...do you think consoles will eventually move to something more mobile-inspired with lets say 3 years cycles on...$299 machines or something like that? that use evolutionary technology so there isn't - in theory - some mass investment of R&D costs and new engines needing to be written from scratch every 6 years or so?
 
Again, a 5 years iteration could achieve all that, it doesn't have to be 3 years or less.

The jump in power will either be too little (held back on consoles) for the computing/graphical tech on the PC at the time in development comparison, or too much for a cohesive same disc experience with 5 years. 3 seems more a sweet spot with tech vs. scalability between the machines/PC.

The big 3 want one ecosystem. Games as a service.

Technology stagnated too fast for that.

Yep.
 
if we pretend PS4k isn't a thing...do you think consoles will eventually move to something more mobile-inspired with lets say 3 years cycles on...$299 machines or something like that? that use evolutionary technology so there isn't - in theory - some mass investment of R&D costs and new engines needing to be written from scratch every 6 years or so?

I think for the next two cycles (PS4K/Xbox Elite + PlayStation 5/Xbox Two), it will be four year cycles to keep consistence with past generations.

The OG systems (PS4/X1) will be playing the same games as the updated systems (PS4K/Xbox Elite) while latter systems do their thing (some exclusive VR games, slightly enhanced visuals, ect).

The PS4K and Xbox Elite will support PS5/Xbox Two games and will 'replace' the PS4/X1 (so we have two SKU's developers have to work with instead of three). Same process will occur, but the power jump will be stronger for the PS4/Xbox Two.

Same thing will happen and......as long as the OG system is supported for the 'generation' (PS4/Xbox One, PS5/Xbox Two), I think things will be fine.
 
Technology stagnated too fast for that.

What do you mean?
5 years iteration is no different from 3 years, same architect just more powerful.
And Sony doesn't need to force forward compatible, first party can make exclusive to push adoption,
if third party want to aim for largest install base, just make compatible titles, they don't have to start from zero, they can use same engine and all.
 
Why would publisher like the idea? PS4K won't make the oeverall PS4 install base growth 2 fold.
They make games for same amount of customers with or without PS4K but require more work.


Lets see: make a few changes to your code & have a game that work on over 50 million consoles or start work on a game today working hard for 3 years on a game that will have a install base of 0 to a few million on release date?
 
You completely forgot about what Mark Cerny said about compute in the OG PS4. Take a look at what he said. It's alot of tech talk, but it's good stuff. :)



http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

Never forget that this may be PC architecture, but it's still customized by Sony. And devs taking advantage of all these customizations will reap all of the benefits.

Tough luck with that. They keep going on about low power mobile hardware and how their toaster is faster than the PS4.
 
Man no wonder so many gamers complain about lazy developers. They think this shit is trivial and practically free despite multiple developers in this thread shedding light on the reality of how this takes up time, money and resources to support.
 
What do you mean?
5 years iteration is no different from 3 years, same architect just more powerful.
And Sony doesn't need to force forward compatible, first party can make exclusive to push adoption,
if third party want to aim for largest install base, just make compatible titles, they don't have to start from zero, they can use same engine and all.

His response below...

Lets see: make a few changes to your code & have a game that work on over 50 million consoles or start work on a game today working hard for 3 years on a game that will have a install base of 0 to a few million on release date?

.

Man no wonder so many gamers complain about lazy developers. They think this shit is trivial and practically free despite multiple developers in this thread shedding light on the reality of how this takes up time, money and resources to support.

And job security with a larger ecosystem that consumers have adopted in mobile and PC.

I never thought I would hear a handful of developers complain about a better chance of job stability with seemingly less risk of contraction and a crash, due to the other facets like mobile being more attractive/profitable to your publishers due to this model of never having to redesign from square one every 5-7 years.

Seems like that is MUCH more work, than smaller changes to code in an every growing scalable ecosystem.
 
if we pretend PS4k isn't a thing...do you think consoles will eventually move to something more mobile-inspired with lets say 3 years cycles on...$299 machines or something like that? that use evolutionary technology so there isn't - in theory - some mass investment of R&D costs and new engines needing to be written from scratch every 6 years or so?
It totally makes sense to have the next model have similar architecture but a much higher spec than the older, so devs are used to the hardware, but 3 years is far too short a time imo. 4-6 seems more sensible. Dev times are already around the 3-4 year mark with some AAA titles so it seems crazy to keep moving the goalposts that quickly. And yes, 'but PC', but you really can't compare them in that way, and just because It happens with PC doesn't mean it's right.
 
But they have to spend time to test it.

I must admit this is a very valid point that I hadn't realised/thought about properly.

Again, a 5 years iteration could achieve all that, it doesn't have to be 3 years or less.

It's a balancing act. On the one hand you've got how many models in a iterative cycle you're supporting concurrently, and on the other you have the age of the lowest model. On a 5 year cycle PS4 will be 10 years old at retirement, on a 2 year cycle you need to support at least 3 models otherwise owners of the oldest will be pissed at having to upgrade too quickly. I've said before, I think optimum is 2 models in the 3-5 year span.

If PS4.5 releases this year then PS5 needs to hit anywhere between 2019 and 2021 to maintain that cycle.
 
His response below...



.

5 years iteration won't make developer start from zero. They can still make game for both set of customer, just skip the medium setting part.
The different is, dev can start capitalize on better hardware from day 1 if they want, by making exclusive without pissing off anyone.
 
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Where is this from?
 
And job security with a larger ecosystem that consumers have adopted in mobile and PC.

I never thought I would hear a handful of developers complain about a better chance of job stability with seemingly less risk of contraction and a crash, due to the other facets like mobile being more attractive/profitable to your publishers due to this model of never having to redesign from square one every 5-7 years.

Seems like that is MUCH more work, than smaller changes to code in an every growing scalable ecosystem.

There's nothing here in this move that supports there's going to be a larger ecosystem. Mobile development takes weeks, and at most months and costs a tiny fraction of what it takes to develop a console game. PC development, especially high end development is reliant on console development to exist.

What you're doing here is ignoring people who do this for a living and have experience in how this work so that it fits your ideal concept of how this would work. There's nothing here that proves there will be better job stability. All we have right now is a bigger burden on the developer. A bigger burden puts that developer more at risk than being more stable.

I bet you don't even understand the cost of even making "small changes in code"
 
It totally makes sense to have the next model have similar architecture but a much higher spec than the older, so devs are used to the hardware, but 3 years is far too short a time imo. 4-6 seems more sensible. Dev times are already around the 3-4 year mark with some AAA titles so it seems crazy to keep moving the goalposts that quickly. And yes, 'but PC', but you really can't compare them in that way, and just because It happens with PC doesn't mean it's right.

Oh yeah, i do agree in some senses...and I agree PC is different, in a fundamental way especially. My opinion has been that there should be the opportunity for a trilogy to be made on a generation of console but that's not realistic at all unless we had 2 years dev times :P I just meant 3 years as an example, i feel like the problem with anything less than 5 years could be that you would get such comparatively incremental upgrades year on year its not worth it.

Sorta like how Apple often have the "real" upgrade every 2-3 years or more, but year on year its small revisions. I'm still of the opinion the PS4k will turn out to be a VR focused box rather than something meant as a Ps4.5 equivalent, but I feel that if Sony/MS/Nintendo moved towards a refresh every 5 years they'd need to let devs and publishers know obviously but really make it clear to the consumer that it's not like your console will stop working or stop doing this or that but 5 years for $/£xxx amount is probably the golden period.
 
PS4 OG already has USB 3.0

Maybe he meant 3.1, which was not released until June/July of 2013 (too late to put in PS4/Xbox One). Which to me, seems wasted for HDD support. HDDs do not read/write fast enough to utilize the 10gb/s rate.

3.0 handles the lower HDD bandwidth just fine. I want them to have external HDD gaming support so much, lol.

There's nothing here in this move that supports there's going to be a larger ecosystem. Mobile development takes weeks, and at most months and costs a tiny fraction of what it takes to develop a console game. PC development, especially high end development is reliant on console development to exist.

What you're doing here is ignoring people who do this for a living and have experience in how this work so that it fits your ideal concept of how this would work. There's nothing here that proves there will be better job stability. All we have right now is a bigger burden on the developer. A bigger burden puts that developer more at risk than being more stable.

I bet you don't even understand the cost of even making "small changes in code"

I am questioning a handful of opinions, because there are those who also do this for a living that I am sure do not share the same viewpoint. When you start to say things like this is a 'hive mind' in development, one tends to tune it out as bias.

I understand the costs just fine. But do not even try to say, 'small changes in code' cost as much as designing from scratch every new box generation. Then that is utter bullshit, and goes against everything Ubisoft, EA, EPIC, etc., have done with the scalability of their engines for ecosystem growth.
 
Yes, more hardware profile will make it worst don't you think?

Not necessarily as over time developers will become more familiar with the platform and the SDK. If everything is consistent across a platform for 10 years do you think developers will become more or less efficient vs on a platform that they only get to spend 5 years with because they were forced to start all over again from scratch?

Konami IIRC?

Funny that this is coming from Konami considering they have seemingly moved away from console development at the moment. Maybe things becoming more iterative would encourage developers like them to return in a big way?
 
Those charts are ridiculous and completely unrealistic.

It depends on what parameters they mean "difference" but even still it has no resemblance to anything practical.

You don't need to be 10 feet away from a 100 inch screen to notice 4K being better than 1440p or 1080p I mean really.

Maybe that applies to "test images" but it definitely doesn't apply to actually watching movies or playing games at those resolutions.
 
Not necessarily as over time developers will become more familiar with the platform and the SDK. If everything is consistent across a platform for 10 years do you think developers will become more or less efficient vs on a platform that they only get to spend 5 years with because they were forced to start all over again from scratch?

What make 3 years iteration keep same dev tools but a 5 years iteration have to start from scratch?
Like you said, it's just low medium high setting profile. 3 years is medium and 5 years is high, dev don't need to start from scratch, they just skip the medium setting.
 
I am questioning a handful of opinions, because there are those who also do this for a living that I am sure do not share the same viewpoint. When you start to say things like this is a 'hive mind' in development, one tends to tune it out as bias.

So again, you're selectively picking out info so it conforms to your belief. Gotcha. There's no point in discussing it if you're going to ignore everything that people tell you that don't fit your mold.

I understand the costs just fine. But do not even try to say, 'small changes in code' cost as much as designing from scratch every new box generation. Then that is utter bullshit, and goes against everything Ubisoft, EA, EPIC, etc., have done with the scalability of their engines for ecosystem growth.

Do you? Do you really because it sure feels like you're trivializing it when it's not a trivial factor. Who even suggested the cost to make small changes was as much as designing from scratch. Go ahead, quote someone because I have yet to see anyone make that argument.
 
So again, you're selectively picking out info so it conforms to your belief. Gotcha. There's no point in discussing it if you're going to ignore everything that people tell you that don't fit your mold.

Do you? Do you really because it sure feels like you're trivializing it when it's not a trivial factor. Who even suggested the cost to make small changes was as much as designing from scratch. Go ahead, quote someone because I have yet to see anyone make that argument.

No I am not, I am drawing from all facets, and studying market trends. And you acting like you are speaking for the entire development community does not help your case, due to such trends do not completely agree with you.

Again, answer the question why the top engine makers have designed their shit with one scalable ecosystem in mind now, with the biggest complaint of having to start from scratch every generation was too expensive, if they 'cost the same as smaller changes'?
 
What make 3 years iteration keep same dev tools but a 5 years iteration have to start from scratch?
Like you said, it's just low medium high setting profile. 3 years is medium and 5 years is high, dev don't need to start from scratch, they just skip the medium setting.

Why are you so hung up on this 3 vs 5 year thing? Whos not to say that 2 years after the PS4K is released we won't get another upgraded console from PlayStation? Them bringing out another console at the end of this year doesn't stop them bringing another one out a couple of years after that.

That way if you are not comfortable in getting this latest update after 3 years you can still get your upgrade after 5 years and enjoy everything that those people who upgraded at the 3 year point did and more. I don't get every new iPad that comes out nor do I get every new GPU that Nvidia pumps out but I still enjoy my games on those 2 platforms. I'd most likely do the same if Sony decided to go this route with PlayStation - I'd upgrade when I feel ready to, not every time they bring a new iteration out.
 
That's also the only game we'll see on PS4 which won't use rasterizer h/w probably. It's unique but it's not the best use of h/w resources available.

It's insane that Dreams is ONLY using compute for it's graphics per Media Molecule.

As an high level introduction, here’s the description of the talk, that explains how the game’s rendering engine works:

“Over the last 4 years, MediaMolecule has been hard at work to evolve its brand of ‘creative gaming’. Dreams has a unique rendering engine that runs almost entirely on the PS4’s compute unit (no triangles!); it builds on scenes described through Operationally Transformed CSG trees, which are evaluated on-the-fly to high resolution signed distance fields, from which we generate dense multi-resolution point clouds. In this talk we will cover our process of exploring new techniques, and the interesting failures that resulted. The hope is that they provide inspiration to the audience to pursue unusual techniques for real-time image formation. We will chart a series of different algorithms we wrote to try to render ‘Dreams’, even as its look and art direction evolved. The talk will also cover the renderer we finally settled on, motivated as much by aesthetic choices as technical ones, and discuss some of the current choices we are still exploring for lighting, anti-aliasing and optimization.”

This is insane to me. When people say that the leap from the PS3 -> PS4 wasn't that big of a leap, it just leads me to believe that they don't understand what the PS4 can actually do. And that devs are also still working in the 2nd generation of PS4 games.

No triangles, just GPGPU/Compute software based rendering on the GPU and this what you get in Dreams.....

22499781966_e3f1cbb937_o.png

22512266282_e64003bf77_o.png

18688806079_382d0737c6_o.gif
 
Despite all these rumors and such , I'm not 100% convinced this thing is coming as soon as we've all been lead to believe.

As Eurogamer established in their article a week ago , the next big drop in semiconductor fabrication for GPU's is 14nm. CPU's just started using it this past year with intels 6000 series. Consoles rely heavily on performance per watt and heat generated per watt to make their closed off nature function reliably.

So in order to make a box that takes up as much physical space as the current PS4 but doubles the performance, you need to make the chips half as big. 14nm being half the size of the 28 nm chips found in a PS4 means this is do-able. In fact, it means 2 things - once the 14nm parts can be reliably manufactured in bulk you'll see a much smaller version of the PS4 made available that should also cost sony substantially less to manufacture which translates into probably price drops for the end consumer. Thing is , I don't think the 14nm chips can be made quite so easily , intel had problems making enough 6700k's to meet demand last year and that shortage inflated prices. Sure, that's their top end chip which required the best of the best components but still. I'm not positive on this but I think GPU's have to handle a lot more stress than a CPU does , especially with the way games are rendered internally these days. Those parts HAVE to work. So , if the regular PS4 has a 28NM custom "tahiti" GPU (7970 PC videocard) with about 25% of it's power disabled to improve yields and lower power use, it's possible that the PS4K could make use of a 14nm "Fiji" GPU (currently available as AMD's Fury) or even the new polaris line (I'm doubting this because I think it would cost too much) . Something that will be more reliably manufactured and sold more cheaply if it doesn't start getting built until 2017. Currently, the Jaguar has a succesor in the form of Puma, I imagine a custom built version could be made for a PS4K that has the same 8 cores the custom Jaguar contains while also using only 25 watts but managing 2.4 ghz + instead of 1.6 + ghz. Perhaps this is the point of contention with regards to spending more on a CPU though, as AMD is launching "summit ridge" this year which is aimed at competing with intels 6000 series CPU's. Perhaps a cheaper custom version of this is getting looked at ?

All this tech rambling aside, my point is that the big leap forward required to make a new console at all worth it can't happen cheaply (from a manufacturing standpoint) until next year so , simply put , I don't buy that PS4K is coming out until at least next fall. Waiting until say , September 2017 to launch might allow Sony to get the cost down to that 400$ USD price point that worked so well for them in 2013 , it also means this holiday season and much of next year the hardware won't be changing. People can feel safer buying a PS4 over the next 18 months in other words. As well, in the meantime , you might well get that PS4 slim available by next March. Sony needs to maintain profitable hardware but also be able to drop prices into mass market territory. As well, in order to spent the power increase even more , the regular PS4 needs to be half the cost of the PS4K by the time it launches.

Despite the second rumor about developers using all the extra juice available in the 4K devkit and regular PS4 owners having to suffer with worse graphics, I don't think you'll have a full generation leap forward here. Most games that utilize PS4K levels of power will just step down settings in the same way a PC game goes from high to medium. Sony might even have licensing fees set up so that buying a PS4K license gives you a PS4 license but you need to make the game run on both , I still don't see a point in the PS4/4K lifespan where buying a brand new game will mean you can only play it on the 4K. It will be a simple case of - do you care if your games look their best or not ? spend 200$ in a year or 2 if you don't care and spend 400$ if you do.
 
Why are you so hung up on this 3 vs 5 year thing? Whos not to say that 2 years after the PS4K is released we won't get another upgraded console from PlayStation? Them bringing out another console at the end of this year doesn't stop them bringing another one out a couple of years after that.

That way if you are not comfortable in getting this latest update after 3 years you can still get your upgrade after 5 years and enjoy everything that those people who upgraded at the 3 year point did and more. I don't get every new iPad that comes out nor do I get every new GPU that Nvidia pumps out but I still enjoy my games on those 2 platforms. I'd most likely do the same if Sony decided to go this route with PlayStation - I'd upgrade when I feel ready to, not every time they bring a new iteration out.

Because 5 years is what we used to. Most gamers won't complaint about tradition gen hardware getting exclusive.
That way, console make doesn't need to force foward compatible and they get to introduce new feature/control scheme/invention on new machine.
Which is why I think timing is very important on iterative hardware.
 
No I am not, I am drawing from all facets, and studying market trends. And you acting like you are speaking for the entire development community does not help your case, due to such trends do not completely agree with you.
Who said I was speaking for the entire dev community? I said there have been numerous developers in this thread saying the same thing and yet it gets ignored because it goes against the argument that this is all great. I'm not the only one saying this.

Again, answer the question why the top engine makers have designed their shit with one scalable ecosystem in mind now, with the biggest complaint of having to start from scratch every generation was too expensive, if they 'cost the same as smaller changes'?

You know this has been going on for awhile now right? The idea has always been to minimize the amount of work setting up the backend so that you can focus more on time with content. One of the reasons why UE3 was popular last gen was because of this. The engine abstracted the hardware more. However no matter how much you do this, you can never abstract it completely. Also nobody here is arguing against the idea of moving to x86 architecture for easier development, using engines to make it easier to develop across platforms and so forth. But this whole point your making has NOTHING to do with the points we're pointing out. Not one person is arguing for starting completely from scratch nor insinuating having another target platform is going to involve doing more things from scratch. You've invented that argument that nobody is making.
 
I did and I am relaxed. The other guy's post has echoed many others in this thread. The poster I quoted implied the PS4K would be inferior to the NX and next Xbox, and I feel that was unnecessary bullshit granted not one of these systems has even been announced.

Very late reply..but since its me you've misquoted I feel the need to respond. I was not implying ps4k would be inferior to those two at all. Rather I was making a point about how if Sony did not respond to them (like some here are wishing for), those who feel insecure about ps4k will still end up feeling insecure when Microsoft and maybe Nintendo release more powerful systems than vanilla ps4.
 
So in order to make a box that takes up as much physical space as the current PS4 but doubles the performance, you need to make the chips half as big. 14nm being half the size of the 28 nm chips found in a PS4 means this is do-able.
Assuming the rest is correct, if you want a die two times smaller, you need 20nm, not 14nm.

Granted, it's still not given that you can produce GPU in 14nm. But at the same time, I'm not convinced it's just a matter of die size.
 
Seems like nothing is set in stone at the moment really. I also think a release next year would be the way to go. Not everyone gets bogged down with too many Skus and it gives them more of a reason to drop the price of the OG PS4.
 
Because 5 years is what we used to. Most gamers won't complaint about tradition gen hardware getting exclusive.
That way, console make doesn't need to force foward compatible and they get to introduce new feature/control scheme/invention on new machine.
Which is why I think timing is very important on iterative hardware.

Just because it's what we are used to it doesn't mean it's what's best for everyone. They don't need to reinvent the wheel with every new machine. The ps4 happens to be the one console this gen that was simple, no frills and launched without any gimmicks and lo and behold, it's the console that is performing the best in terms of sales. Forward compatibility is a big part of all of this (the ps4k). In fact, it's pretty much the whole point of it.

I said earlier in this thread that people against this simply don't like change and you are proving my point :)
 
exact same price quoted by more than 3 sources
Kind of odd that price is locked down but release date is not. Usually internally they would have a idea of price but that is not shared with retail partners this far un advance and is why I assume is where the leaks are coming from based on past comments. But generally if price point is locked and being shared with retail partners the date of release is usually given as well. If 2017 is the time frame usually they would not be sharing price point this far ahead.
 
Oh Christ, stop with the banal hyperbole. Decimate? Don't make me laugh.

So he/she plus someone else in this thread who are developers, now don't have a better understanding of the industry than the regular posters on here? I would say if someone who is a developer with 15 years experience raises a red flag maybe we should listen.

And since they are with the other's like myself who see the big negative impact this can have on development, future console adoption rate.

Feel like the conversation isn't so one sided for everyone being happy about this announcement.

Kind of odd that price is locked down but release date is not. Usually internally they would have a idea of price but that is not shared with retail partners why I assume is where the leaks are coming from based on past comments. But generally if price point is locked and being shared with retail partners the date of release is usually given as well. If 2017 is the time frame usually they would not be sharing price point this far ahead.

Probably because they are gauging reactions to this. Th leaks seem like they are no super hard NDA's or that the information could have been meant to spread, to see how people reacted to it, developers, consumers, news outlets.
 
So he/she plus someone else in this thread who are developers, now don't have a better understanding of the industry than the regular posters on here? I would say if someone who is a developer with 15 years experience raises a red flag maybe we should listen.

And since they are with the other's like myself who see the big negative impact this can have on development, future console adoption rate.

Feel like the conversation isn't so one sided for everyone being happy about this announcement.

I just think it all comes down to who you ask. I'm sure there are devs who are weary of this and I'm sure there are some who are geeked about this. For something like this devs and publishers have to be on board for.
 
Kind of odd that price is locked down but release date is not. Usually internally they would have a idea of price but that is not shared with retail partners this far un advance and is why I assume is where the leaks are coming from based on past comments. But generally if price point is locked and being shared with retail partners the date of release is usually given as well. If 2017 is the time frame usually they would not be sharing price point this far ahead.

That is not odd at all. They have a budget and what price point they think the market will bare. The release timing is tentative, as well as crucial to get right, since they also have another SKU (VR) to worry about.

This feels more and more 'controlled' to gauge interest, and develop that messaging strategy.

So he/she plus someone else in this thread who are developers, now don't have a better understanding of the industry than the regular posters on here? I would say if someone who is a developer with 15 years experience raises a red flag maybe we should listen.

And since they are with the other's like myself who see the big negative impact this can have on development, future console adoption rate.

Feel like the conversation isn't so one sided for everyone being happy about this announcement.

Just because you are a developer does not mean you understand the business side of things and how it is evolving with that.

I know plenty of tool maker, designers, world builders, code machines, etc., that could not tell you shit about the business side enough to merit it being 'make or break' arguments, other then clocking in, and doing their tasks.

But I would also like more reasons, considering we have this thing called a PC that has been doing this at a much higher rate, for over 20 years.

All concerns and positives should be brought to the table, however, like both sides, there is very thin info being said/shared to draw a definite on here nor there.

Probably because they are gauging reactions to this. Th leaks seem like they are no super hard NDA's or that the information could have been meant to spread, to see how people reacted to it, developers, consumers, news outlets.

Agreed.

Now picture that in 4K

giphy.gif

I can't even, lol.

1080p (hell even 900p Battlefront) looks remarkable already upscaled to 4K on my set.

I think my mind's eye will melt with Dreams in native.

Too bad consoles are dead because of it since no one will ever buy a display better than the one they have now and everyone is going to PC and all devs are going to go out of business and cats and dogs will live together and mass hysteria.

Thanks for wanting to ruin video games man.

Oh you! ;)
 
Now picture that in 4K

giphy.gif

Too bad consoles are dead because of it since no one will ever buy a display better than the one they have now and everyone is going to PC and all devs are going to go out of business and cats and dogs will live together and mass hysteria.

Thanks for wanting to ruin video games man.
 
So he/she plus someone else in this thread who are developers, now don't have a better understanding of the industry than the regular posters on here? I would say if someone who is a developer with 15 years experience raises a red flag maybe we should listen.

And since they are with the other's like myself who see the big negative impact this can have on development, future console adoption rate.

Feel like the conversation isn't so one sided for everyone being happy about this announcement.

We've also had people who are devs/in contact with devs saying they're on board with this.

I also don't know what thread you're reading if you think this thread is one sided or overwhelmingly positive.
 
Just because it's what we are used to it doesn't mean it's what's best for everyone. They don't need to reinvent the wheel with every new machine. The ps4 happens to be the one console this gen that was simple, no frills and launched without any gimmicks and lo and behold, it's the console that is performing the best in terms of sales. Forward compatibility is a big part of all of this (the ps4k). In fact, it's pretty much the whole point of it.

I said earlier in this thread that people against this simply don't like change and you are proving my point :)

Seems like I not explaining myself too well. Sorry, English not my first language.
I'm pro change and pro progress. I'll buy PS4K day one and never look back. I wish they make exclusive for PS4K and couldn't care less PS4 getting shit port.

That said, I'm against 3 years iteration because of one reason, forward compatible,
This thing is the opposite of change and progress. We can't have games design exclusively for the lastest tech, we can't have new invention because it won't be compatible with old iteration.
We won't have Wii if console become PC/mobile, no movement tracking because it won't compatible with GC.
That's one of the perk of traditional console generation.

Look at all those 4K60fps fancy games running on Titan X , the same exact game could play on 750ti, that's not real progress. That's what Nvidia tricks you to think its progress.

The only reason we need forward compatible because we don't want to pissed off early adopter.That's it.
A 5 years iteration like traditional 5 years gen, we don't need foward compatible and we get to keep all the perks of iterative hardware.
 
Kind of odd that price is locked down but release date is not. Usually internally they would have a idea of price but that is not shared with retail partners this far un advance and is why I assume is where the leaks are coming from based on past comments. But generally if price point is locked and being shared with retail partners the date of release is usually given as well. If 2017 is the time frame usually they would not be sharing price point this far ahead.

Which price? 399 or 499?
 
I meant along the lines of- who would actually develop for the new piece of hardware, when you have an established large install base of the original consoles.

And further, who will want to spend development time making "special features" and content in their games for the better hardware, when the install base is so low?


Unless Sony/MS is going to subsidize the development and pay off developers and publishers to do it...

Also, it's going to up the QA and support costs twofold if you have to make sure your game is compliant on four separate platforms instead of just two. (if the XBone.five rumor is true as well)

As for your Apple/Android example, it doesn't take 3-4 years to make a AAA Apple/Android app.

Err is this guy bish approved, I mean he's talking about who would spent the time to make the port better, when you take the same specs of ps4k on a pc it's will already be a huge improvement over the ps4 version for the majority of games.
 
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