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[Prisoner KSC2-303]

It is possible, but I do not think it will be as much as the PC.

I think most are using that argument in comparison to development time/resources being spent now, more so than the options available to the end user.

That's what I thought, and why I believe it's a flawed comparison, as the two are somewhat linked. Without the options, the time spent optimising will inevitably have to be much greater, as there'll be little to no flexibility for the user to tailor how something performs. Saying varied hardware works for PC, without assuming there'll be PC-like flexibility, just seems a bit odd, to me at least. It's putting all the focus on developers, and thinking it'll be easy.

 

[Lebneney]

Why ? Better shadows ?

Better shadows and more AA for certain games. Maybe higher texture quality as well.

The Last of Us Remastered 4K doesn't seem farfetched to me, and maybe The Last of Us Remastered VR too if third person VR games becomes a thing.

That is something that I wouldn't put past them.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I suppose I should use my poor google-fu and find the right formula).

There isn't a formula, just a rule of thumb. In my living room we have a 60" FullHD and we are sitting 3 meters (or 9,8 feet for those ffrom Myanmar et al.) away from it. I for one think 720p games on a current gen console are a disgrace and should be killed with fire. My beloved wife on the other hand can't see the difference between a regular PAL TV channel (576i) and a HD (720p or 1080i here in Germany)...

 

[michaelius]

It seems to me that the likeness of "well it's already done that way on PC" is a flawed comparison without the true flexibility to adjust major aspects like resolution in order to allow the user to tailor things. Without that, the onus will be on developers to spend extra time optimising for multiple machines.

Developers already suck at optimising - I'd love to see graphic options in console games since way too often games can't even hit stable 30 fps.

 

[SDCowboy]

Did any big new info drop today?

 

[Averon]

So they will reveal at e3 and launch early 2017 ?

Doubtful if this ain't getting released this year.

I can see them announcing it at PSX this year in December and releasing it in March 2017 alongside GoW4. But I can see that pissing off a lot of people who bought a PS4 that holiday season and make people who are about to buy a PS4 hold off.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Did any big new info drop today?

No.

It was held back for understandable reasons. One part ethics, another part risk I wager.

 

[Boke1879]

Doubtful if this ain't getting released this year.

I can see them announcing it at PSX this year in December and releasing it in March 2017 alongside GoW4. But I can see that pissing off a lot of people who bought a PS4 that holiday season and make people who are about to buy a PS4 hold off.

Yea. If this thing is launching next year. PSX with like a March release.

 

[Fafalada]

The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question.

You don't say.

 

[Mister Megative]

Let's be honest with ourselves, shall we? If DLC, Season Passes, project $10, broken games at launch, paying for online functionality, unsupported games, pricing of digital distribution, and all the other myriad number of things that people have rightfully complained about haven't already pushed people out of the console market, the release of a box that supports new displays certainly won't either.



And the first video showcasing a new game upscaled to 4k on a flash 60" 4k display will pull them right back in.

Smartest take in this entire thread. 100% accurate. I eagerly await the next death of consoles, after PS4k sells great.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Wow, so many people buying PC's in the next 12 months or so...

More just spending $500 for an i5 and decent GPU lol.

 

[pixellated_man]

I don't think it's ridiculous in any way, if I think a game seems fun I obviously want to play the best version of it.
What's so strange about that?

I don't get a cross gen game for PS3 now that I have a PS4, I'm sure the game is fun there too but why would I want that version?
If I have a PS4 then I get the game on PS4.
And if I have a PC then I get a multiplat on PC.
And if I don't have a PC then I'll be a bit bummed that I can't play the game with that graphics/framerate/resolution on PS4 or PS4K.
And if I don't have a PS4K then I'll be a bit bummed that I can't play the game with that graphics/framerate/resolution on PS4.

Ridiculous way of thinking? I don't think so. I just want the best version. Within my budget of course, I wouldn't spend 100k on a PC rig only to get all games to run at 300fps ;P

This is why it's such an outrage about this from my point of view. People didn't suddenly start disliking PS4, they just want to play the best versions of the games they like. And as a console gamer who don't want to spend 30k on a PC they could do that on PS4, the definitive console version. But if the PS4K rumors are true they might have to upgrade the console to get the best version, a purchase they never wanted to do and an upgrade they never even thought was neccessary, until now.

If the bolded part is true for you and others who think alike then what difference does the existence of ps4k make? You'd still feel you're missing out on the best version regardless right? And leaving pc out of the equation, what will happen when xbox 1.5 comes out and that offers the best version of the vast majority of games (multiplatform) that is on the market?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Smartest take in this entire thread. 100% accurate. I eagerly await the next death of consoles, after PS4k sells great.

This gen was suppose to be the death of consoles .
PS5 will do find just like everything else that gets updates .

 

[Nictel]

They need to say something at or around E3. This vagueness is hurting them. I want to get a PS4 for VR but as long as there is uncertainty about a possible upgrade I won't get one.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Better shadows and more AA for certain games. Maybe higher texture quality as well.



That is something that I wouldn't put past them.

Doubtful on textures as memory comes into play more for that.

 

[Boke1879]

They need to say something at or around E3. This vagueness is hurting them. I want to get a PS4 for VR but as long as there is uncertainty about a possible upgrade I won't get one.

Again outside of forums I doubt your general audiences knows about this. They should only share info when they have a substantial amount to reveal.

 

[RoboPlato]

Doubtful on textures as memory comes into play more for that.

They could potentially have optional high res texture packs for those on the 4k.

 

[SlimySnake]

They need to say something at or around E3. This vagueness is hurting them. I want to get a PS4 for VR but as long as there is uncertainty about a possible upgrade I won't get one.

the vagueness is hurting them less than announcing a better version of PS4 8 months before it launches. just imagine the impact that would have on the PS4 sales.

this thing will get announced a week or two before its ready to be sold. anything more and they will be cock blocking themselves for that period of time.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

the vagueness is hurting them less than announcing a better version of PS4 8 months before it launches. just imagine the impact that would have on the PS4 sales.

this thing will get announced a week or two before its ready to be sold. anything more and they will be cock blocking themselves for that period of time.

Again (knocks head against brick wall) why have retail been briefed?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

the vagueness is hurting them less than announcing a better version of PS4 8 months before it launches. just imagine the impact that would have on the PS4 sales.

this thing will get announced a week or two before its ready to be sold. anything more and they will be cock blocking themselves for that period of time.

Best time to announce PS4K is the day they announce PS4 pricedrop to 299 and PS4K as 499. That gives such a huge cap it won't impact the more casual consumers and the more hardcore would wait for PS4K anyway at this point.

PS4 will still sell way more than 4K for a long time. Price is king.

 

[Boke1879]

Again (knocks head against brick wall) why have retail been briefed?

Because retail is usually aware of such things before the general public

 

[Moneal]

Because retail is usually aware of such things before the general public

Especially the higher ups that make decisions on inventory.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Especially the higher ups that make decisions on inventory.

And if they are unsure about the launch, and there is the possibility of an E3 announcement and/or preorder, it makes sense to inform retailers this early.

 

[MilesTeg]

Again outside of forums I doubt your general audiences knows about this. They should only share info when they have a substantial amount to reveal.

Eh. This has been reported on all the biggest gaming web sites. I think if you are invested in gaming chances are you have heard about this by now.

I don't necessarily think Sony needs to comment, I just think this information has spread wider than you believe.

 

[Nictel]

Again outside of forums I doubt your general audiences knows about this. They should only share info when they have a substantial amount to reveal.

the vagueness is hurting them less than announcing a better version of PS4 8 months before it launches. just imagine the impact that would have on the PS4 sales.

this thing will get announced a week or two before its ready to be sold. anything more and they will be cock blocking themselves for that period of time.

Maybe businesses wise it makes sense. But I know personally I would be quite annoyed if it stays this vague.

 

[Fess]

If the bolded part is true for you and others who think alike then what difference does the existence of ps4k make? You'd still feel you're missing out on the best version regardless right? And leaving pc out of the equation, what will happen when xbox 1.5 comes out and that offers the best version of the vast majority of games (multiplatform) that is on the market?

You mean because they're also on PC? Since Xbox games will be on PC too I'll definitely get those, so personally I'm good on that front. But Sony's first party games are still console only and then you'll instantly get into the dilemma I described if PS4K becomes a reality, if you're not upgrading.
I don't want to leave PC out of the equation with Xbox, they're kind of evolving into the same platform, PC will soon be Microsoft's 4K option.

 

[CitizenCope]

I could see myself holding out on all the major releases and PSVR for this thing if the release date wasn't too far out and it had the secret sauce we are hearing rumors about. That's how much I want it. Return to the doom and gloom.

 

[Omnistalgic]

TBH it's the best looking PS4 game on the horizon for me (I'm speaking in terms of art style, photorealistic or not).

Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted 4, and Horizon would all like a shot at that title.

Guerrilla Games
Naughty Dog
PD
MM
Sucker Punch
Santa Monica

All these studios IMO have a shot at taking the graphics crown. Going to be a glorious 2 years. And, with this news, I’ve just decided, I’m not ready for a PS4K. I don’t hate the idea, I welcome it, but I’m just going to get it later. UC4, Ratchet, Horizon, etc...there is enough wow factor on my PS4 to not worry about upgrading. But by the end of 2017, or maybe 2018, I’ll definitely be ready and willing.

Insiders tks for the news and info. Very much appreciated.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Because retail is usually aware of such things before the general public

Especially the higher ups that make decisions on inventory.

This just never happens with consoles, though. We only found out about the 8GB RAM in PS4 at the announcement 9 months before launch, price at E3 and pre-orders from July I think.

Yet with this it might not be announced until the end of the year and launched possibly as late as next March? If Sony are just unsure on timing of release then it would imply everything is in place and the thing started being made already. It takes months to ramp production up to a million units a month.

The fact that there has been absolutely no update on the original story from Kotaku tells me this is in the early phases and very few people outside first party know anything.

Even if the high up execs at game retailers are informed this early, with all due respect to the OP, would it really include detailed SKU and price information this far out?

Genuine question. GAF has made me a dirty skeptic

 

[EatinOlives]

Man no wonder so many gamers complain about lazy developers. They think this shit is trivial and practically free despite multiple developers in this thread shedding light on the reality of how this takes up time, money and resources to support.

It's sadly nothing new. Remember the Skullgirls debacle where people simply could not comprehend how much one fighter cost to make end to end? That people think game optimization is basically just a dude tinkering with presets like he was gaming on a PC I guess should be expected.

The two are nowhere near equivalent. On PC I have my hardware of my choosing, and the onus is on me, the consumer, to correctly turn up or down the parameters so that the game runs at a level that is acceptable to me. Hey maybe I don't mind turning up the shadows even though the frame rate dips sub-30 in that one area. But for developers, the onus is on THEM to make sure their game runs on the specified hardware at a level that is acceptable for the industry. Set the shadows to the PC equivalent to "medium"? They're not done, they have to test the game to make sure the frame rate is acceptable throughout. That's time and resource consuming.

 

[timmyp53]

I just think this information has spread wider than you believe.

I doubt it. It would literally be bad business to comment.
NPD for the next two months going to be Interesting ™.

 

[Moneal]

This just never happens with consoles, though. We only found out about the 8GB RAM in PS4 at the announcement 9 months before launch, price at E3 and pre-orders from July I think.

Yet with this it might not be announced until the end of the year and launched possibly as late as next March? If Sony are just unsure on timing of release then it would imply everything is in place and the thing started being made already. It takes months to ramp production up to a million units a month.

The fact that there has been absolutely no update on the original story from Kotaku tells me this is in the early phases and very few people outside first party know anything.

Even if the high up execs at game retailers are informed this early, with all due respect to the OP, would it really include detailed SKU and price information this far out?

Genuine question. GAF has made me a dirty skeptic

this isn't just a new console, this is an updated console, that will in some ways compete with ps4. retailers need to know how to shift inventory to deal with something like this.

 

[EatinOlives]

So he/she plus someone else in this thread who are developers, now don't have a better understanding of the industry than the regular posters on here? I would say if someone who is a developer with 15 years experience raises a red flag maybe we should listen.

And since they are with the other's like myself who see the big negative impact this can have on development, future console adoption rate.

Feel like the conversation isn't so one sided for everyone being happy about this announcement.

"You people are wrong, this'll be great for developers!"

"Actually, I'm a dev and I don't like this for these reasons"

"Psssh, what do you know, you're just one dev! I bet all the other ones I haven't talked to agree with me!!"

 

[Boke1879]

"You people are wrong, this'll be great for developers!"

"Actually, I'm a dev and I don't like this for these reasons"

"Psssh, what do you know, you're just one dev! I bet all the other ones I haven't talked to agree with me!!"

Well there are devs clearly on board with this as well. Of course you'll get wide ranging opinions on this. If devs and publishers weren't on board there would be no reason for MS or Sony to even think of doing this.

 

[onQ123]

And this is all thanks to Compute in the PS4's GPU. Guys please realize that there's years to go before the OG PS4 will be tapped out. Probably 2019 at the earliest.

Just like with my 4K threads in 2012 they thought I was crazy when I made the GPGPU thread in 2011

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?


I'm a Jr because people didn't understand yet & now we are right back to talking about the stuff that got me Jr'ed years ago

 

[CosmicQueso]

"You people are wrong, this'll be great for developers!"

"Actually, I'm a dev and I don't like this for these reasons"

"Psssh, what do you know, you're just one dev! I bet all the other ones I haven't talked to agree with me!!"

The average developer can be as misinformed and have just as bad judgment on evaluating the business side of this industry as can the average gaming aficionado.

 

[Inuhanyou]

There are developers that will negatively impacted by this. You think there won't be? You can't just dismiss inconvenient truths.

We're supposed to be having a debate about it, not just dismissing criticism, and there are legitimate arguments against what we think is going to happen with the splintering of the user base, the development teams and otherwise.

Its not like flicking PC settings at all for this kind of thing.

 

[The God]

And it is. But to retain the install base in the playstation platform, not to a specific device. The more engaged an user is on a platform, the easier will be to retain him.

How does the mid-gen upgrade help engagement though?

 

[EventHorizon]

There are developers that will negatively impacted by this. You think there won't be? You can't just dismiss inconvenient truths.

That isn't even be remotely true. The PS4K will be fully backwards compatible with the PS4. If a developer wanted to, they could pretend the PS4K didn't exist. They could make their normal PS4 game and it would run perfectly fine on the PS4K. Support for the PS4K is totally optional.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

There are developers that will negatively impacted by this. You think there won't be? You can't just dismiss inconvenient truths.

We're supposed to be having a debate about it, not just dismissing criticism, and there are legitimate arguments against what we think is going to happen with the splintering of the user base, the development teams and otherwise.

Its not like flicking PC settings at all for this kind of thing.

I think the question is how big the impact will be .
For all we know Sony can have tools that would make it rather easy .
Plus it was already easy to port stuff to and from PS4 .
The next question is devs or pub will really waste much time trying to do anything with the extra power.
The simplest thing for them would be just to brute force things .
It will have impact yes but how much is what really matters .

 

[stan423321]

That isn't even be remotely true. The PS4K will be fully backwards compatible with the PS4. If a developer wanted to, they could pretend the PS4K didn't exist. They could make their normal PS4 game and it would run perfectly fine on the PS4K. Support for the PS4K is totally optional.

Interesting stance, but I wonder if any sort of studio can afford that. The performance pushers will make use of PS4K, either the budget way ("we market with PS4K footage, now stop optimizing") or the pro-PS4K owner way ("let's improve this") - if they don't, competition will take advantage of that. For stuff such as visual novels, I guess it makes no change at all.

 

[get2sammyb]

Interesting stance, but I wonder if any sort of studio can afford that. The performance pushers will make use of PS4K, either the budget way ("we market with PS4K footage, now stop optimizing") or the pro-PS4K owner way ("let's improve this") - if they don't, competition will take advantage of that. For stuff such as visual novels, I guess it makes no change at all.

I'm sure the hope is that Sony would build PS4K into its tools so it's practically seamless for devs to take advantage of. If, of course, this is a performance upgrade in the first place.

We still don't know enough about it.

 

[vpance]

I wonder if Deep Down taking advantage of PS4K means RE7 will too. After all, Sony had a hand in helping them develop their engine.

Capcom must have gave up trying to pull off whatever ambituous stuff they were trying to do on the base consoles and will make the non-gimped versions for PS4K. Sucks for OG only owners but it would've just been another massive downgrade thread after the reveal. Now at least we can see their true vision for Panta Rhei.

 

[CosmicQueso]

That isn't even be remotely true. The PS4K will be fully backwards compatible with the PS4. If a developer wanted to, they could pretend the PS4K didn't exist. They could make their normal PS4 game and it would run perfectly fine on the PS4K. Support for the PS4K is totally optional.

This.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Just like with my 4K threads in 2012 they thought I was crazy when I made the GPGPU thread in 2011

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?


I'm a Jr because people didn't understand yet & now we are right back to talking about the stuff that got me Jr'ed years ago

Can't believe you're still a junior. You're a good poster around here imo.

 

[family_guy]

How does the mid-gen upgrade help engagement though?

Well some people do make the jump to PC if they feel like they need that extra performance. This could keep them from doing that.

 

[teh_pwn]

There are developers that will negatively impacted by this. You think there won't be? You can't just dismiss inconvenient truths.

We're supposed to be having a debate about it, not just dismissing criticism, and there are legitimate arguments against what we think is going to happen with the splintering of the user base, the development teams and otherwise.

Its not like flicking PC settings at all for this kind of thing.

I would think this is far easier for developers than PC game development with APIs like Direct X and hundreds of possible customer configurations. I would expect Sony would provide high level APIs for 2, and perhaps over time there will be 4-5 concurrent targets.

A lot of developers also struggled when X360 came out. The ones that flourished had a history in PC game development. Got to keep up with modern software development practices.

 

[The God]

Well some people do make the jump to PC if they feel like they need that extra performance. This could keep them from doing that.

I think this is more likely to push people towards PC gaming.

 

[SneakyStephan]

10 years ago the same chart was used to upsell 1080p over 720p, just compare what res you need for 100" from 10' - did evolution bring us suddenly supersight or what?

That chart has always been bullshit

 

[teh_pwn]

"You people are wrong, this'll be great for developers!"

"Actually, I'm a dev and I don't like this for these reasons"

"Psssh, what do you know, you're just one dev! I bet all the other ones I haven't talked to agree with me!!"

I've worked in the software industry for about 10 years. Not in gaming, but there's a lot of things that overlap. One thing I would be surprised if it didn't overlap was disagreement on development practices and platform ecosystems. At work I hear people argue over distributed componentization versus monolith stack, and honestly there isn't a correct answer. It depends on what you're doing, and sometimes both work.