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[Dead]

Nolan has bad taste.

Hindsight is 20/20 but there was no way WB was ever going to pick someone other than Snyder

Prior to Man of Steel, he was still a fanboy darling thanks to Watchmen, even if Sucker Punch didn't land, and no other director in their stable gets the comic book aesthetic like he does.

The main issue is Snyder has no interest in making movies that will please everyone, only movies he wants to make for himself, which is why he is at WB because it's only Studio that's letting people do this as opposed to something like Disney where every director is at the leash of Kevin Feige. Problem is before Man of Steel he was making mostly adaptations so it worked out, and now he is making original works based on existing characters, leaving a lot of room for interpretation, a lot of which don't jive with some people.

 

[Schweinehund]

If they want to go back to LOTR they still have enough material to pull from Silmarillion & the war of the jewels.

lets do dis.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

If they want to go back to LOTR they still have enough material to pull from Silmarillion & the war of the jewels.



lets do dis.

Isn't Chris Tolkien being a dick and not releasing the rights to it?

 

[Alpende]

Get a different director and stop messing with scripts by jamming more stuff in. I hope Affleck's Batman movie doesn't get too much studio interference.

 

[Omadahl]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

 

[Rooster12]

The main issue is Snyder has no interest in making movies that will please everyone, only movies he wants to make for himself, which is why he is at WB because it's only Studio that's letting people do this as opposed to something like Disney where every director is at the leash of Kevin Feige. Problem is before Man of Steel he was making mostly adaptations, and now he is making original works based on existing characters, leaving a lot of room for interpretation.

Deadpool wasn't a movie made to please "everyone"...that movie barely had a story...no absurd CGI fights....and it worked on every level.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

You serious?

Justice League>>>>>>>>>>>>The Avengers

 

[Inferno313]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

Without getting into fan debates on which one is better.

The DCU has A TON of potential that hasn't been capitalized on in film. I recommend watching some Justice League on Netflix for a taste.

 

[Calm waterfall]

Last year was horrible for the WB. This year is not starting well either.

 

[Dead]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

Um no lol

DC has far more interesting material that has yet to be mined. They have always been far bigger in scope and much more "mythic" than Marvel, a lot of that stuff just hasn't been capitalized on.

Green Lantern if executed properly would have made Guardians of the Galaxy look like a joke, but they fucked that up.

 

[BronsonLee]

Jupiter Ascending probably has a fairly decent opening week

There is no scenario in this universe where that was possible, JA was number one with a bullet on the bomba prediction list

 

[DeathyBoy]

Sure if you want to totally back-track every shred of ongoing character development and closure those films had. It would just feel gross and opportunistic if BvS opened with Baleman, living his happy life in Paris, decided "Fuck, there's a cinematic universe now? Bye babe, I'm heading back to Gotham. Fuck that John Blake kid, am I right?"

I think it'd be more gross if there existed a Batman who'd shrug off an alien invasion in a 'meh, I've done enough' way.

 

[Garlador]

Isn't Chris Tolkien being a dick and not releasing the rights to it?

He saw the Hobbit movies.

Can you blame him?

 

[Anth0ny]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

It is. It's just that the amazing success of Marvel on the big screen and the continued dropping of the ball with DC would make you think otherwise.

 

[Dead]

I think it'd be more gross if there existed a Batman who'd shrug off an alien invasion in a 'meh, I've done enough' way.

haha yep

"Well that's that, now let me fuck off for 7 years"

What a god damn embarrassment lol

 

[MHWilliams]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

Generally, Batman and Superman outperform the top Marvel characters, which are Wolverine and Spider-Man. Given the rights situation with Marvel preventing a New Avengers lineup onscreen, Batman v Superman and Justice League should be slam dunks.

Marvel characters are actually getting a boost thanks to the success of the films.

It's one of the reasons you don't need to do Batman and Superman's origins on film - everyone knows them - but you have to tackle Captain America's. WB is just having trouble capitalizing on that.

 

[FreshCakes]

WB has always been in a downward spiral after Nolan's Batman and Harry Potter series ended. The Hobbit trilogy only slowed down their downturn.

 

[Foggy]

Just one more step in Hollywood's death march into oblivion

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

It's pretty subjective but one thing I feel like they've missed entirely in these two DC movies is making the world these characters inhabit interesting.

Marvel stories taking place in what is very similar to our real world is a different take from DC's big stand-in cities, Gotham and Metropolis are very unique and should be living breathing characters themselves, but it feels like they didn't even try to give them much signifance other than "this is where Batman is from and this is where Superman is from".

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

He saw the Hobbit movies.

Can you blame him?

He'll eventually need money. Give it time.......

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Honest question- What has Snyder done to deserve such a huge franchise?

No one could have handled the reins here?

I'd rank both 300 and Watchmen as good films with stunning visuals, that held an inordinate amount of reverence for their source material that has only been seen in stuff like Sin City. Man of Steel may have missed a few beats here and there, but the premise of BvS was supposed to be directly addressing those missed beats (based on the initial trailers), and it had some pretty kick ass action sequences.

BvS slobbers over TDK Returns (novel), directly lifting out set pieces and dialogue, but completely misses the mark on the characterization of both heroes, as well as the reason for their fight.

 

[Loxley]

If they want to go back to LOTR they still have enough material to pull from Silmarillion & the war of the jewels.



lets do dis.

Middle Earth Enterprises and WB only have the film rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings - which Tolkien only sold off to pay for medical bills for his dying wife back in the late 60's. Stuff like The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is still the sole property of the Tolkien Estate, and they have no intentions of selling off the film rights anytime soon. After how the Hobbit films turned out, I can't say I blame them either.

WB can still make more Middle-earth films if they wanted, there's a couple of stories within The Appendices that could be their own movie (like the Battle of Fornost for example). Or heck, they could even make a film detailing the exploits of a younger Aragorn. But yeah, anything not directly tied to The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings is off-limits for them.

It's why, in the first Hobbit film, Gandalf "can't remember" the name of the two blue wizards - WB legally could not use their names because they were only mentioned in Unfinished Tales and not The Hobbit or LOTR.

 

[A.D. Skinner]

This is bullshit, right? They added 1 film each to 2019 and 2020...3 films a year.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Middle Earth Enterprises and WB only have the film rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings - which Tolkien only sold off to pay for medical bills for his dying wife back in the late 60's. Stuff like The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is still the sole property of the Tolkien Estate, and they have no intentions of selling off the film rights anytime soon. After how the Hobbit films turned out, I can't say I blame them either.

WB can still make more Middle-earth films if they wanted, there's a couple of stories within The Appendices that could be their own movie (like the Battle of Fornost for example). Or heck, they could even make a film detailing the exploits of a younger Aragorn. But yeah, anything not directly tied to The Hobbit or The lord of the Rings is off-limits for them.

Do they hold these rights in perpetuity?

 

[Inferno313]

I think it'd be more gross if there existed a Batman who'd shrug off an alien invasion in a 'meh, I've done enough' way.

Yeah, which is why those films don't take place in the same universe.

If you insert Baleman into the MoS universe, it's dissatisfying because you either undo the ending of the TDK trilogy so that you can sell more tickets, or you have a Bruce who ignores the situation and a Batman no one wants to watch in John BlakeMan.

 

[Cheebo]

He'll eventually need money. Give it time.......

No he won't. The Tolkien estate makes tons of money off the royalties of the books. Both Chris Tolkien and his heir to take over after he dies hate the films and are adamant they won't give up any rights. They have nothing but bad things to say about Peter Jackson. They hated the LOTR films as well.

 

[Can Crusher]

Yup. Which itself was following the actual cancellation of a Justice League movie by George Miller.

I understand the reasoning behind everyone framing this as a Marvel catch-up game, but it's really more to do with the fact Warners was looking to plug holes based on the knowledge Harry Potter & Tolkien were going away. Seeing Marvel doing what they were doing certainly provided incentive, yeah - but it makes sense to see why they're tripping over themselves the way they are when you look at it from the perspective of them trying to get back to Potter/LOTR with their superheroes, rather than them trying to catch up to Marvel.

But there's like, 30 years of superfans (and the media borne from their ranks) trained to think of everything solely in the Marvel/DC binary, so that just gets reinforced.

But surely you can also see the other point being made, right? There were no "expanded universes" in the industry before MCU. DC never actually tried it. Justice League by George Miller didn't have Green Lantern in it, so I don't see where the connection to Martin Campbell's movie being the start of a DCU. Green Lantern's development actually started after they scrapped JC:Mortal.

Of course I understand that the larger point here is to have a franchise that can deliver consistent output in terms of numbers. I personally think they should really give it a shot with the Matrix. There's a lot that can be done with that Universe, but I'm probably alone.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

There is absolutely no way to prove it, but I feel like things would've been different if everything was the same, but it was Christian Bale instead of Ben Affleck.

Like Bale did for Exodus?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

No he won't. The Tolkien estate makes tons of money off the royalties of the books. Both Chris Tolkien and his heir to take over after he dies hate the films and are adamant they won't give up any rights. They have nothing but bad things to say about Peter Jackson. They hated the LOTR films as well.

I didn't know about their hatred towards the movies.

 

[Strictly]

You serious?

Justice League>>>>>>>>>>>>The Avengers

But is the JL as translatable to films as the Avengers? Maybe, but it might require a hell of a lot more effort and vision to nail perfectly.

 

[Nemesis121]

They want that Avengers money.

Can't get that money with a hack like Snyder..

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Have you read Hellblazer?
If not then I can see why you have such opinion.

I haven't, but I've read comics with John Constantine in them. Keanu's character had some of the arrogance, but not much of the wit and obviously none of the Britishness.

Lucifer was the best part of that movie, but he was in it for only a few minutes.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Isn't Chris Tolkien being a dick and not releasing the rights to it?

Correction: Chris Tolkien (despite hating the LOTR films too) is the saviour of us all. After The Hobbit films, I pray and hope that WB never release another Middle Earth film for all eternity.

 

[The Artisan]

At this point, I'm starting to believe it's because he has dirt on the WB heads of staff or something.

damn, for real? so then what, he would've done like some crazy leak about them if they didn't let him direct?

I'm absolutely not. Those films obviously don't take place in our reality, but they also don't take place in a reality where Superman and Wonderwoman and Darkseid would exist. Films aren't either "realistic" or "fantasy", each film takes place in it's own universe with it's own rules.

Okay man but you have to remember that these movies are based on a source material in which all these fictional characters do coexist with one another. And for some of them they are surprised themselves to realize that aliens and monstrous creatures walk among them. Just because Nolan didn't want his movies to be played out that way doesn't put a lid on the idea. He didn't create these characters like he did Inception and Interstellar, he pulled them out of comic books. As far as I'm concerned, his trilogy would've fit in perfectly fine with the DCCU. There was no need to replace Bale and doing so was a missed opportunity.

The world of Lord of the Rings isn't anything like ours, but it's also a world that wouldn't have alien invasions happening in it.

Middle Earth's source material also never had alien invasions taking place in it, either.

WB picked him because apparently:

1.) Nolan recommended him.

and more importantly

2.) No other director on their shortlist wanted to do MoS.



Its not a question of IF, but WHEN.

Same with Star Wars.

Whoa, Nolan recommended him? I never knew that. & I wonder why no other director wanted to direct the next Superman film...?

Like Bale did for Exodus?

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

But surely you can also see the other point being made, right? There were no "expanded universes" in the industry before MCU. DC never actually tried it. Justice League by George Miller didn't have Green Lantern in it, so I don't see where the connection to Martin Campbell's movie being the start of a DCU. Green Lantern's development actually started after they scrapped JC:Mortal.

I can see it, I'm just saying it's not necessarily borne out of anything but knee-jerk perpetuation of a mostly non-existent rivalry between companies that have largely employed the same people to do the same thing to the same characters.

2009: WB was going to use Miller's Justice League as a jumpoff point (it's why they cast those characters as young as they did), and then it got canceled.

2011: WB was going to use Green Lantern as a completely different jumpoff point, and then it failed out.

2013: WB used Superman as a baseline, and it worked just enough to try Batman v Superman, which has disappointed on an ASM2 level.

The entire time, WB was trying to fill a Potter/Tolkien-sized hole in their schedules (remember, they're a movie studio that has to pay attention to more than just superheroes, unlike Marvel Studios), and I feel that knowledge isn't really brought up, and it causes all their decisions (which are still questionable) to be looked at through a very specific, and possibly not very accurate, prism.

 

[xaosslug]

Aside from Batman, is the DC universe really that intriguing compared to Marvel? I just don't see how they match up. Don't get me wrong, I read some DC comics (mostly Batman), but do people really rank them equally?

ur in a DC-leaning thread asking about DC vs Marvel... u in danger, girl.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

The people who own the DC comics film rights are also the people who own DC comics. The only way Disney would get those rights is if they straight up bought Warner Bros or if Warner Bros straight up sold DC, both of which would probably get crushed by monopoly laws.

Assuming Warner Bros would want to sell DC Comics, Disney probably wouldn't be allowed to purchase it because monopoly laws would drop on them faster than BvS Rotten Tomatoes score because then Disney would have an overwhelmingly huge amount of the comic book industry.

It's not as simple as you think. This would really depend on how they would look at it. Anything between 50 and 75% market share is considered inconclusive (which is where the combined comic book marketshare of the two companies would fall under). Exceptions occur to that such as broadcast tv and the like (i.e. ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX cannot merge with one another even though their marketshare would be less than 50%). Any smart lawyer would also argue that comic books are a genre of books and you should therefore compare the market share of the combined Marvel/DC with that of book publishers in general. Something similar is also what would happen if Hasbro and Mattel decided to merge since they are rumored to be in talks right now.

I think much more concerning things for the SEC and FTC would be TBS/TNT combining with ESPN, HBO streaming distribution, WB's old paramount/mgm catalogs, and probably a few more things. The nerdy fanboy dream/hate of DC/Marvel under one roof would be looked at, and the combined movie marketshare would as well, but I don't think that would be what would make FTC/SEC want to block such a merger.

Warner Bros. is not going to sell DC. I'm not even sure why that is being discussed.

That's true, but Jeff Bewkes said he is open to selling Time Warner, and it's an all or nothing kind of deal. Apple and Fox (again) were rumored to be interested in buying them as recently as January (though that was of course denied). I am sure multiple interested parties are talking or have talked to them and we might never hear about it. A merger would be in the neighborhood of $80B or so, so there are only a handful of players that can make a play. Whether the buyer would be Disney, I don't know, but they could be one along with other deep pocketed players, and all major DIS acquisitions under Iger came out of left field that no one really saw coming.

 

[Josh5890]

Correction: Chris Tolkien (despite hating the LOTR films too) is the saviour of us all. After The Hobbit films, I pray and hope that WB never release another Middle Earth film for all eternity.

You could make an argument that it is similar to Star Wars where George Lucas botched the second trilogy but J.J Abrams came in and brought Star Wars back big time. I could see fresh blood coming in and doing something good with Middle Earth. I think they need to move past the old characters though.

 

[DeathyBoy]

But surely you can also see the other point being made, right? There were no "expanded universes" in the industry before MCU. DC never actually tried it. Justice League by George Miller didn't have Green Lantern in it, so I don't see where the connection to Martin Campbell's movie being the start of a DCU. Green Lantern's development actually started after they scrapped JC:Mortal.

Of course I understand that the larger point here is to have a franchise that can deliver consistent output in terms of numbers. I personally think they should really give it a shot with the Matrix. There's a lot that can be done with that Universe, but I'm probably alone.

There absolutely were expanded universes before the MCU. Jason vs Freddy, WB's old monster films etc. The expanded universe isn't a new thing, Marvel just marketed it brilliantly.

 

[ItWillGetBetter]

I don't get why they couldn't have just used Nolan's Batman. They're both dark and somewhat realistic. The Nolan Batman could have extended itself very well into this one. They could have

Spoiler

Had the Joseph Gordon-Levit have been the one that "died" and maybe even that Anne Hathaway Catwoman died too. Maybe then this BvS Bruce is a single father, but also feeling a bit empty, so still fights crime like he used to. Then they could have done the whole fight different. Maybe Lex finds out how to control Superman. And so this whole time Batman is suspicious of Superman, but is at least logical about it and has the philosophy of, "well at least he's helping people, but I am skeptical cuz that is kind of nuts". But then Superman goes nuts, but the audience doesn't know why. Batman fights him, wins, finds some w/e connected controlling Superman, detaches it, I duno. But anyways. They could have had 3 movies in their arsenal already. So what about Suicide Squads joker? Well he's not that Joker, he's the Robin-joker. Boom.

The whole thing could have gone better if they threw money at Nolan and had him be the lead editor of the scripts.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

I don't get why they couldn't have just used Nolan's Batman. They're both dark and somewhat realistic. The Nolan Batman could have extended itself very well into this one. They could have

Spoiler

Had the Joseph Gordon-Levit have been the one that "died" and maybe even that Anne Hathaway Catwoman died too. Maybe then this BvS Bruce is a single father, but also feeling a bit empty, so still fights crime like he used to. Then they could have done the whole fight different. Maybe Lex finds out how to control Superman. And so this whole time Batman is suspicious of Superman, but is at least logical about it and has the philosophy of, "well at least he's helping people, but I am skeptical cuz that is kind of nuts". But then Superman goes nuts, but the audience doesn't know why. Batman fights him, wins, finds some w/e connected controlling Superman, detaches it, I duno. But anyways. They could have had 3 movies in their arsenal already. So what about Suicide Squads joker? Well he's not that Joker, he's the Robin-joker. Boom.

The whole thing could have gone better if they threw money at Nolan and had him be the lead editor of the scripts.

Hell no, and I'd imagine that Nolan would riot if they tried to use his Batman that way. TDKR perfectly ended his Bruce Wayne/Batman, to bring back Baleman is any way would be an insult.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

WB gonna become the THQ of the movie making business if they keep directors on multi-picture deals like this.

 

[MHWilliams]

I don't get why they couldn't have just used Nolan's Batman. They're both dark and somewhat realistic. The Nolan Batman could have extended itself very well into this one. They could have

Spoiler

Had the Joseph Gordon-Levit have been the one that "died" and maybe even that Anne Hathaway Catwoman died too. Maybe then this BvS Bruce is a single father, but also feeling a bit empty, so still fights crime like he used to. Then they could have done the whole fight different. Maybe Lex finds out how to control Superman. And so this whole time Batman is suspicious of Superman, but is at least logical about it and has the philosophy of, "well at least he's helping people, but I am skeptical cuz that is kind of nuts". But then Superman goes nuts, but the audience doesn't know why. Batman fights him, wins, finds some w/e connected controlling Superman, detaches it, I duno. But anyways. They could have had 3 movies in their arsenal already. So what about Suicide Squads joker? Well he's not that Joker, he's the Robin-joker. Boom.

The whole thing could have gone better if they threw money at Nolan and had him be the lead editor of the scripts.

That's a lot of work and there's nothing they particularly need from Nolan's Batman. You put Nolan Batman in BvS and the film doesn't really change. Audiences are fine with a new Batman and that was the least of Batman v Superman's problems.

What you're really getting at is, "write a better script."

 

[BewareTheBatsie]

I'm so confused. WB just announced two extra films supposedly to the already stocked up schedule they have laid out and that means they're releasing...less?

 

[ItWillGetBetter]

Hell no, and I'd imagine that Nolan would riot if they tried to use his Batman that way. TDKR perfectly ended his Bruce Wayne/Batman, to bring back Baleman is any way would be an insult.

You don't need to bring back Bale to have it continue. Batman Forever was the same Batman as Returns and the original 1989(?) and it wasn't half bad.

How would it be an insult? That trilogy exists as it does. Just like Batman and Robin doesn't in anyway ruin the ones before it.

But you already have three decently written well-loved Batman movies. To abandon them is silly. LexCorp existed in that universe already. So there was no shoe-horning needed.
Also it didn't end "perfect". It ended with Robin taking the suit.

That's a lot of work and there's nothing they particularly need from Nolan's Batman. You put Nolan Batman in BvS and the film doesn't really change. Audiences are fine with a new Batman and that was the least of Batman v Superman's problems.

What you're really getting at is, "write a better script."

Couldn't have been any more work than BvS took. Nothing they really "need" except for an already established universe to continue. Which makes it a little easier to do than trying to rush and shoe horn everything together and play catch-up with Marvel.
Maybe that's what I'm getting at, but I think it would have given this Batman more substance. Because, regardless if it was Affleck taking over, it would have allowed us to look at that Batman and see just how tragic he is, because we were THERE and saw him lose that girl, lose Dent. Then we wouldnt' have to see it, but we would understand the pain from losing Catwoman and that Robin (Nightwing w/e I don't read comics). So we see him and think....fuck....Yeah.

 

[MHWilliams]

I'm so confused. WB just announced two extra films supposedly to the already stocked up schedule they have laid out and that means they're releasing...less?

Less films overall, more films aimed in direction they believe will make money: DC/LEGO/Harry Potter. Basically, double-down on what they think works and ignore the rest.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

WB gonna become the THQ of the movie making business if they keep directors on multi-picture deals like this.

Jason Rubin will save them.

WB is becoming more like Activision.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

How much money is WB making with their games ?

I would think the Batman games sold pretty well and Shadow of Mordor too. I hope they start a universe on the gaming side of things too.

 

[Inferno313]

Okay man but you have to remember that these movies are based on a source material in which all these fictional characters do coexist with one another. And for some of them they are surprised themselves to realize that aliens and monstrous creatures walk among them. Just because Nolan didn't want his movies to be played out that way doesn't put a lid on the idea. He didn't create these characters like he did Inception and Interstellar, he pulled them out of comic books. As far as I'm concerned, his trilogy would've fit in perfectly fine with the DCCU. There was no need to replace Bale and doing so was a missed opportunity.Middle Earth's source material also never had alien invasions taking place in it, either.

He didn't create these characters but he created those versions of the characters and this version of the universe. Largely pulling from source material like Year One, The Killing Joke, and The Long Halloween. Which are Batman-ass Batman stories that focus on Gotham and Batman characters exclusively. The Dark Knight trilogy was a completed narrative. It had a beginning, middle, and ending. It didn't need to be dug back up so they could sell more Superman tickets.

And like I said, Bale wasn't replaced. He made it clear he wasn't interested in returning regardless.

 

[Rooster12]

Green Lantern if executed properly would have made Guardians of the Galaxy look like a joke, but they fucked that up.

Omega Men would be more like DC's version of Guardians. And an Omega Men movie would have definitely been interesting.

You can't compare Green Lantern to Guardians...that's not even the same thing to me.