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[ItIsOkBro]

They placed all their chips on Zack Snyder.

Zack Snyder.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

"20 years in Gotham.. How many good guys left?"

"How many stayed that way?"


Though that could also be referring to Harvey Dent.

Just realized how much I hate that line since it makes it seem like Batman's entire crusade has been pointless and he has accomplished nothing in Gotham.

For all the many problems I had with TDKR, I loved that it actually showed Batman's efforts had not been in vain an Gotham was actually on the mend, something I feel a lot of Batman media fail to ever show.

 

[IndoAssassin]

Rumor mill on 4Chan is that the Ultimate edition has that along with the Wayne manor being burnt.

Honestly the last thing the movie needed are more flashbacks, dreams and premonitions. Movie needed to be leaner not more bloated. I appreciated that the movie didn't tell us that Robin is dead or what happened with Wayne manor... it was shown through the visual medium. "Show, not tell" essentially. One of the few things Snyder got right in this movie.



*Opening credits origin story
*Bruce tries to save people during Metropolis destruction
*Bruce and Alfred have the talk backs and debate over fighting Superman
*Bruce gives monologue about the history of the Waynes (they were hunters)
*Bruce smack talks Clark
*Bruce working out and prepping his Kryptonite before the fight
*Batman smack talks Superman and smashes his head with a toilet sink before almost killing him.
*Batman whooping some Luther goons Arkham style
*Knightmare sequence (cool scene standalone even if it didn't belong in the movie)

All good to great scenes in the movie that are kinda glossed over by everything related to Superman. About the worst thing about the Batman stuff aside from the killing and weird characterization was the JL tie ins.

Ok maybe not a flash back but what about while he was staring at Robin's suit, he goes into a trans and you hear Jason screaming in pain, calling out to him, then cut to Alfred calling his name, imo something as simple as that.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

LOL.

Snyder thinks Batman is Rorschach, I wouldn't put it past his Batman uttering something close to Rorscach's opening:

"This city is afraid of me...I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper

"No."

the pop culture reaction to Rosharch is hilarious to me. His entire character creation is a parody, an exaggeration of the grim, self-serious hyperviolent vigilante. He's psychopathic, schizophrenic, socially backwards, possibly homophobic, sexually confused(and perhaps abused), morally self-righteous, and absolutely not a hero in any regard. He hides in a fridge for hours just so he can get a big scary entrance on a suspect! There's nothing admirable about this person!

and yet people think he's cool! They quote him unironically, and cosplay his outfit, and think he's really badass.

Zack Snyder TOTALLY thinks Rosharch is really cool, you can tell

 

[Dahbomb]

why can't batman break? the reason for him abandoning that ideal is poorly explained but still it's weird how angry people got over such a..normal plot point.

The explanation given is that things changed when Superman came as narrated by Alfred. "That's how it starts, the fever, the feeling of helplessness" is referring to how Batman feels helpless against Superman and is starting to become cruel because of it.

Also in the SS behind the scene shots, Batman doesn't have the turret on his batmobile. It's very possible that he went into retirement after the Jason Todd incident and then came back when Superman arrived and when he came back from retirement he didn't follow his rule anymore. It was like "well it didn't work last time, time to do things differently now".

 

[Alandrus Sun]

Just realized how much I hate that line since it makes it seem like Batman's entire crusade has been pointless and he has accomplished nothing in Gotham.

For all the many problems I had with TDKR, I loved that it actually showed Batman's efforts had not been in vain an Gotham was actually on the mend, something I feel a lot of Batman media fail to ever show.

If Gotham ever improved then how could they sell you more comics or movies? Status quo must remain the almighty God in such universes. Which is also why the Nolan trilogy is so special since it is an entirely self-contained story.

the pop culture reaction to Rosharch is hilarious to me. His entire character creation is a parody, an exaggeration of the grim, self-serious hyperviolent vigilante. He's psychopathic, schizophrenic, socially backwards, possibly homophobic, sexually confused(and perhaps abused), morally self-righteous, and absolutely not a hero in any regard. He hides in a fridge for hours just so he can get a big scary entrance on a suspect! There's nothing admirable about this person!

and yet people think he's cool! They quote him unironically, and cosplay his outfit, and think he's really badass.

Zack Snyder TOTALLY thinks Rosharch is really cool, you can tell

Exactly, Rorschach should be pitied not worshiped.

 

[broncobuster]

why can't batman break? the reason for him abandoning that ideal is poorly explained but still it's weird how angry people got over such a...decent plot point.

I've been running with that argument but starting to waver if it's intentional. Snyder's out there agreeing with "more manslaughter than murder," and saying he does not want to be the guy to make Batman kill. Regardless, it's clear by the end it's not meant to condone the actions.

 

[Discotheque]

I've been running with that argument but starting to waver if it's intentional. Snyder's out there agreeing with "more manslaughter than murder," and saying he does not want to be the guy to make Batman kill. Regardless, it's clear by the end it's not meant to condone the actions.

yeah he's done a poor ass job with the PR for the movie. contradicts his own damn film too with the superman destruction and batmurder comments.

can it be that he doesn't even understand what the hell he directed, it's baffling.

 

[Dahbomb]

Just realized how much I hate that line since it makes it seem like Batman's entire crusade has been pointless and he has accomplished nothing in Gotham.

Batman has probably saved Gotham from complete destruction many times. He's just referring to the fact that along the way he has lost many allies. He's probably also referring to Barbara Gordon too.

Who knows what crap hole Gotham would've been in this universe if Batman wasn't there.

the pop culture reaction to Rosharch is hilarious to me. His entire character creation is a parody, an exaggeration of the grim, self-serious hyperviolent vigilante. He's psychopathic, schizophrenic, socially backwards, possibly homophobic, sexually confused(and perhaps abused), morally self-righteous, and absolutely not a hero in any regard. He hides in a fridge for hours just so he can get a big scary entrance on a suspect! There's nothing admirable about this person!

and yet people think he's cool! They quote him unironically, and cosplay his outfit, and think he's really badass.

Zack Snyder TOTALLY thinks Rosharch is really cool, you can tell

Snyder doesn't understand that Watchmen has parody and social commentary stuff in it which is why he made Superman like Dr Manhattan and Batman like Rorshach.

 

[Blader]

why can't batman break? the reason for him abandoning that ideal is poorly explained but still it's weird how angry people got over such a..normal plot point.

wellthereitis.gif

 

[Khal_B]

As much as I detest this version of Batman (if you can call him that), I can roll with it if him killing Joker is what set him off and made him go over the edge into Punisher territory.

If Joker is still alive after all these events, well, I don't know what to tell yah 'cept Zack Snyder.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/03/30/superman-and-the-damage-done

Superman symbolizes way more than the optimism of the 50s and 60s. Don't forget he was a character born out of the great depression. Folks had it way worse in that era than people do now but Superman was OK with them. Superman has actually remained relevant in virtually every decade since his conception, so I don't understand why we think we are different now.

I mean, the fact of a character remaining relevant for a number of decades doesn't necessarily mean they will continue to remain relevant.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

why can't batman break? the reason for him abandoning that ideal is poorly explained but still it's weird how angry people got over such a..normal plot point.

i think if it was handled better in the movie there wouldn't be so much outrage over it (you could say that about a lot of plot elements in here). needed a better run through on the script.

What broke him though? Apparently it was recent after Superman but there's an 18 month time skip for pretty much no reason. Robin's death? Being Batman for 20 years? Aside from a throwaway line the movie doesn't really show him beat up and dejected.

The kind of Batman in this movie needed a moment like this:

 

[Gattsu25]

Use this version of the image from now on:

 

[NumberTwo]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/03/30/superman-and-the-damage-done

Superman symbolizes way more than the optimism of the 50s and 60s. Don't forget he was a character born out of the great depression. Folks had it way worse in that era than people do now but Superman was OK with them. Superman has actually remained relevant in virtually every decade since his conception, so I don't understand why we think we are different now.

This is such a good article and the highest rated comment in the comments section almost made me a little teary-eyed. Ahem....almost.

They placed all their chips on Zack Snyder.

Zack Snyder.

It really does sound insane when you say it out loud, doesn't it?

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I mean, the fact of a character remaining relevant for a number of decades doesn't necessarily mean they will continue to remain relevant.

Of course not, but there has to be a reason. "We've gone through so much terrible shit in the last decade that people have gotten too cynical" is not a reason. Again, Superman survived The Great Depression, WW2, The Cold War, Watergate, etc.

 

[ItWillGetBetter]

Well, Uncharted 1-3 were not a complete story although UC4 seems to be the end of the franchise. But, LOTR is a good example doing a new story with a new big conflict post-Sauron sort of defeats the entire purpose of the trilogy. TDK trilogy is a complete story and TDKR perfectly ends the tale of Nolan's Batman. Bruce Wayne is able to overcome the tragedy of what happened to his parents and put down the cowl to start a new life of his own with someone else. He manages to do this after giving Gotham the hope it deserves for a better tomorrow while ensuring that Batman continues to exist to help rebuild this new Gotham.

To bring Bale Batman into the mix is to disregard the entire last movie and his entire character arc. Could it be done? Sure, logic has never stopped a sequel from being made. Should it be done? No, especially when they can simply create a brand new Batman not tied down by Nolan's established universe.

That's like Disney saying, "Let's make Star Wars but disregard the original trilogy".

I didn't like TFA at all. Thought it was horribly written. BUT it shows that it doesn't matter. That any franchise, however perfect of a trilogy or duology you see, can be extended and expanded upon. LOTRs, TDK, etc.
Its simply a waste of source material.

 

[funkystudent]

Just gimme that Batfleck solo movie.

 

[neojubei]

"20 years in Gotham.. How many good guys left?"

"How many stayed that way?"


Though that could also be referring to Harvey Dent.

Or Catwoman or even red hood

 

[Dash_Riprock]

"Let's make Star Wars but disregard the original trilogy".

Technically we already got that...

 

[Harmen]

Bad films happen to the best, but looking at WB's recent output and their treatment of DC live action films in particular, I'd say the management really has no clue. Which is a shame, because they have some awesome franchises with huge potential.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

That's like Disney saying, "Let's make Star Wars but disregard the original trilogy".

I didn't like TFA at all. Thought it was horribly written. BUT it shows that it doesn't matter. That any franchise, however perfect of a trilogy or duology you see, can be extended and expanded upon. LOTRs, TDK, etc.
Its simply a waste of source material.

Batman isn't SW, he's a comic book character whose had hundreds of different iterations even within the film universe. We've had over five different actors play Batman in one form or another on the big screen with each bringing their own take on the character. Star Wars is one film franchise with set characters and their resulting stories. And, the idea of a post-original trilogy movie wasn't crazy since there have been countless books and video games involving stories past ROTJ.

You can't really disregard the past movies when making a sequel to SW, however, you can do that for comic book heroes. No one was scratching their heads thinking that Batfleck was an extension of the Nolanverse, they were actually excited to see what this new Batman was all about. Now, we are fucking thankful that Nolan Batman still exists untarnished from that mess.

 

[neojubei]

Bad films happen to the best, but looking at WB's recent output and their treatment of DC live action films in particular, I'd say the management really has no clue. Which is a shame, because they have some awesome franchises with huge potential.

Look what they did to green lantern. All they had to do was adapt first flight animated movie to live action and they could not do that right

 

[Firemind]

As much as I detest this version of Batman (if you can call him that), I can roll with it if him killing Joker is what set him off and made him go over the edge into Punisher territory.

If Joker is still alive after all these events, well, I don't know what to tell yah 'cept Zack Snyder.

Maybe Joker is taken to Arkham years before and therefore doesn't require Batman's attention during BvS. SS is set after BvS so maybe we will see more development of Batman's character arc in the Snyderverse.

 

[kittoo]

One agent notes BvS likely won't get to $1 billion despite launching the universe with "two of the most iconic characters in history." Pointing out that Jurassic World pulled in $1.67 billion globally, he continues, "you can't tell me Batman v. Superman is so much less valuable."

This guy gets it. It bombed because it AND man of steel arent good movies. They dont get the characters right, especially Superman. Snyder just isnt suitable for this. WB should've fired him after Man of Steel. If these movies were half decent, Man of steel wouldve earned 800-900 million easily and BvS would've 1.1-1.2b easy. Now this isnt going to touch even 900m. Superman AND Batman can set the box-office on fire if its a good movie. Batman alone did with the Dark Knight trilogy.

 

[LosDaddie]

So what's going to happen with the Shazam movie? I thought The Rock was already cast as the villain. WB should at least combine the Flash and Cyborg movies. Make it a team-up movie.

DC-GAF didn't want to hear it, but many of us said that adding Flash/Seaman/Cyborg and even Wonder Woman to BvS was a mistake when it was first announced. BvS was already going to be stuffed just introducing a new Batman, setting up their fight, and then their eventual team-up against a villain. That's easily enough content right there for a movie.

But WB just wanted that Avengers $$ now. Shame that DCEU is going to suffer with WB wanting to rush things.

That's like Disney saying, "Let's make Star Wars but disregard the original trilogy".

I didn't like TFA at all. Thought it was horribly written. BUT it shows that it doesn't matter. That any franchise, however perfect of a trilogy or duology you see, can be extended and expanded upon. LOTRs, TDK, etc.
Its simply a waste of source material.

I did enjoy the TFA, but this was/is my chief complaint with the movie, as well. The original trilogy essentially didn't happen. There's still an evil (and extremely well funded) Empire with a huge powerful weapon. A group of Rebels being hunted. No Jedi. etc

 

[Killer Queen]

So what's going to happen with the Shazam movie? I thought The Rock was already cast as the villain. WB should at least combine the Flash and Cyborg movies. Make it a team-up movie.

DC-GAF didn't want to hear it, but many of us said that adding Flash/Seaman/Cyborg and even Wonder Woman to BvS was a mistake when it was first announced. BvS was already going to be stuffed just introducing a new Batman, setting up their fight, and then their eventual team-up against a villain. That's easily enough content right there for a movie.

But WB just wanted that Avengers $$ now. Shame that DCEU





I did enjoy the TFA, but this was/is my chief complaint with the movie, as well. The original trilogy essentially didn't happen. There's still an evil (and extremely well funded) Empire with a huge powerful weapon. A group of Rebels being hunted. No Jedi. etc

But I mean like Luke was the last Jedi and its not like he didn't try to make more but uh...Kylo.

 

[Omadahl]

It's pretty subjective but one thing I feel like they've missed entirely in these two DC movies is making the world these characters inhabit interesting.

Marvel stories taking place in what is very similar to our real world is a different take from DC's big stand-in cities, Gotham and Metropolis are very unique and should be living breathing characters themselves, but it feels like they didn't even try to give them much signifance other than "this is where Batman is from and this is where Superman is from".

I agree with you completely on the Gotham and Metropolis fronts. Snyder has done an amazing job of making you understand the kind of torment that Gotham goes through; almost to the point of "Why in the hell would anyone live there?" I really hope WB get their act together.

 

[Omadahl]

As much as I detest this version of Batman (if you can call him that), I can roll with it if him killing Joker is what set him off and made him go over the edge into Punisher territory.

If Joker is still alive after all these events, well, I don't know what to tell yah 'cept Zack Snyder.

Hell. They could just tie in with 'The Killing Joke' and I'd at least appreciate the attempt.

 

[Escape Goat]

Wrong thread

 

[J_Viper]

So what's going to happen with the Shazam movie? I thought The Rock was already cast as the villain. WB should at least combine the Flash and Cyborg movies. Make it a team-up movie.

A Shazam movie seems like a really terrible idea, even with The Rock. Just cast him as Darkseid. There's your billion dollar idea WB.

And yeah, grouping up Flash and Cyborg would be wise.

Book people - Whats up with the knights of Ren? Was Reys vision one of the past as it truly happened? The film never spends any time on it except for one line of dialogue.

As much as I enjoyed TFA, that shot amazing Dark Souls-esque shot of the Knights of Ren from the trailer ending up as a damn sequence broke my heart.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

A Shazam movie seems like a really terrible idea, even with The Rock. Just cast him as Darkseid. There's your billion dollar idea WB.

And yeah, grouping up Flash and Cyborg would be wise.

Rock as Darkseid? Ewwww. No thank you. He is a great fit for Shazam or Black Adam though.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Lol then why didn't Batman never kill the Joker after Jason Todd or Barbara?

It hasn't been totally explained but it's obvious he's in a darker place in this movie than he ever was prior. He really gives zero fucks and it shows.

If he didn't give a fuck earlier in his career, the Joker and half of the Suicide Squad cast would be dead by now.

I think this will be the last time we see him like this too. One reason is story, as he hints at it at the end of the film. Another is public backlash like the backlash about the damage in Man of Steel. They'll respond to that for sure.

 

[Escape Goat]

A Shazam movie seems like a really terrible idea, even with The Rock. Just cast him as Darkseid. There's your billion dollar idea WB.

And yeah, grouping up Flash and Cyborg would be wise.


As much as I enjoyed TFA, that shot amazing Dark Souls-esque shot of the Knights of Ren from the trailer ending up as a damn sequence broke my heart.

The Rock as Darkseid? LOL

 

[Discotheque]

javier bardem's voice for darkseid.

the rock as black adam
john cena as shazam (or armie hammer or something, somebody big and willing to act like a dork)

 

[Jigorath]

yeah he's done a poor ass job with the PR for the movie. contradicts his own damn film too with the superman destruction and batmurder comments.

can it be that he doesn't even understand what the hell he directed, it's baffling.

Eh.

Snyder has always just been a really bad speaker.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Michael Ironside as Darkseid, duh

 

[Jawmuncher]

Would the failure of BvS have cancelled Tron 3 if WB owned it?

 

[The One and Done™]

There it is. This movie needed flash backs of Jason getting tortured. Would have made it easier to stomach his carelessness for the criminals.

What proof do you have that he actually killed someone?

 

[BlackGoku03]

Would the failure of BvS have cancelled Tron 3 if WB owned it?

Nope they would have made it. And rightfully so.

Hopefully WB doesn't see BvS as a failure but as something to improve on.

 

[Anung]

I wish DC went with a more Elseworld approach to these films. The only thing that Synders BVS made me want is a Flashpoint movie starring Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Bats and Lauren Cohen as Joker.

 

[MHWilliams]

Going with the casting of Luthor, we'll get something like Steve Buscemi as Darkseid.

Ohh, Rami Malek as Darkseid.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Middle Earth Enterprises and WB only have the film rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings - which Tolkien only sold off to pay for medical bills for his dying wife back in the late 60's. Stuff like The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is still the sole property of the Tolkien Estate, and they have no intentions of selling off the film rights anytime soon. After how the Hobbit films turned out, I can't say I blame them either.

WB can still make more Middle-earth films if they wanted, there's a couple of stories within The Appendices that could be their own movie (like the Battle of Fornost for example). Or heck, they could even make a film detailing the exploits of a younger Aragorn. But yeah, anything not directly tied to The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings is off-limits for them.

It's why, in the first Hobbit film, Gandalf "can't remember" the name of the two blue wizards - WB legally could not use their names because they were only mentioned in Unfinished Tales and not The Hobbit or LOTR.

Does the same hold true for Potter films or do they have to get the rights from Rowlings if they want to make a new movie in the Harry Potter mythology?

Do they hold these rights in perpetuity?

I don't think so. When those works become public domain then everyone will be able to adapt them, like Jungle Book or Peter Pan. I think stuff becomes public domain 70 or 80 years after the death of the author in the UK, which means LOTR and Hobbit would be public domain in ~2040-2050. Unfinished Tales and Silmarillion are a bit more complicated because they were released posthumously and edited by his brother (I think) who is still alive.

 

[IndoAssassin]

Going with the casting of Luthor, we'll get something like Steve Buscemi as Darkseid.

Ohh, Rami Malek as Darkseid.

I hope who ever they get, the make-up team does a better job than what they did to Apocalypse. Man what a shit job.

 

[Dahbomb]

I wish DC went with a more Elseworld approach to these films. The only thing that Synders BVS made me want is a Flashpoint movie starring Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Bats and Lauren Cohen as Joker.

I know right?

If JL fails then they can just do a Flashpoint Paradox with those characters and reset the universe just like Days of Future Past. So we can have good guy, non emo Superman and non murder Batman.

 

[Discotheque]

Going with the casting of Luthor, we'll get something like Steve Buscemi as Darkseid.

Ohh, Rami Malek as Darkseid.

http://media.philly.com/images/remi-malick-600.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

...and that wouldn't be awesome?!

in eisenberg's defense he hammed up a film that was in dour need of some energy. and while it was a misguided performance he definitely had the [i]ability[/i] to play a damn good lex going by [URL="https://youtu.be/VKnNUYknsuQ?t=1m15s"]this[/URL]

hell they even shaved his damn head...for one minute at the end. it was all a giant troll. zuckerberg lex would have been perfect.

 

[Monocle]

Problem clearly isn't the # of films being released.

Maybe stop making terrible movies?

Aaaaaaaaand, /thread.

...and that wouldn't be awesome?!

in eisenberg's defense he hammed up a film that was in dour need of some energy. and while it was a misguided performance he definitely had the ability to play a damn good lex going by this

hell they even shaved his damn head...for one minute at the end. it was all a giant troll. zuckerberg lex would have been perfect.

Eisenberg was one of the OK elements in the film.

 

[MHWilliams]

...and that wouldn't be awesome?!

The more I think about it, the better it gets.

hell they even shaved his damn head...for one minute at the end. it was all a giant troll. zuckerberg lex would have been perfect.

I think Zuckerberg Lex would've worked, but he pushed it a bit too far. There was a solid nugget of a great Lex in there though.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

Going with the casting of Luthor, we'll get something like Steve Buscemi as Darkseid.

Ohh, Rami Malek as Darkseid.

Yo, don't act like he wouldn't nail that shit.

 

[gatti-man]

Yeah Bale is really good at elevating bad movies. Terminator Salvation was a masterpiece.....

It was better than BVS all day.