You need to stop saying "up-rendered".
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
You need to stop saying "up-rendered".
When you use 2X rendering resolution on a emulator you think that's the same thing as up-scaling?
No I shouldn't
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
If PS4k is an success this will happen for sure. Early adopters of consoles are the people who buy many games. If these people switch to the new console publisher/developer will concentrate on the PS4k.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That's because PS4 emulator up-renders to 1292x896, then that is upscaled to 1920x1080. That won't look quite as good as native 1920x1080 uprender.
However, it also means that PS4 emulator is not doing some fancy upscaling, or whatever that patent diagram is suggesting. It actually renders at higher resolution, and at highed color depth too.
You can see that on this image comparison:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-grand-theft-auto-san-andreas-face-off
Note how PS2 version of the game has dithered gradients and rough looking brick textures for example, while PS4 version has smooth and more precise gradients, and nicely defined lines of brick textures. You can't accomplish stuff like that just with some upscaling.
He shouldn't. It would be entirely possible to up-render 1080p PS4 game to 4K, on a (much) stronger machine with the hardware that's similar enough. Similar how changing the resolution in a PC game doesn't mean that you're 'upscaling'
manny10032
Member
Would it be one code for both or to separate codes?
Edit: OHHSNAP graduated to member!!!!!!!!
I would love to see a comparison of an upscaled image and an up-rendered image.
SmiteOfHand
Member
Up-rendering is just an unusual term that I don't think is used, at least I've never seen it. Rendering typically refers to the process leading up to producing the frame buffer (the pixels), scaling is the part after where the pixels may be used to produce an image of a different resolution.
Looking at that screenshot my assumption would be that the emulator is rendering at a higher resolution, but I am not familiar with it or its interface.
E: worked my way back to the article from Shu. Hard to tell. If I recall his english isn't the strongest? My assumption would be he was referring to the internal rendering resolution. Dude is a smart guy, don't think he'd throw the term rendered around willy-nilly.
bitbydeath
Member
If it's the same thing KZ:SF used then you can find a pretty detailed post on their site.
https://www.killzone.com/de_CH/blog/news/2014-03-06_regarding-killzone-shadow-fall-and-1080p.html
https://www.killzone.com/de_CH/blog/news/2014-03-06_regarding-killzone-shadow-fall-and-1080p.html
SmiteOfHand
Member
It almost certainly isn't, but that is pretty cool.
I am suddenly remembering all the 1080p complaints about KZ at launch. I like that their response is Native 1080p in single player, motherfucking temporal pixels for multiple player. Fuck off with your noise!
I may have embellished a bit there. Just a bit.
When you use 2X rendering resolution on a emulator you think that's the same thing as up-scaling?
If you use 2x rendering resolution, then the emulator will actually render higher than the default PSP output. Let's say if the original PSP render at 320x240 natively, 2x rendering resolution will render at 640x480 natively.
But you're talking about 4k gaming, that doesn't mean the PS4K will render at 4k natively, it might be able to render higher than 1080p for example 1440p and then upscale it to 4k. But it is not the same as rendering at 4k natively (not gonna happen unless Sony want to sell PS4K at $1000-$1500).
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Ok first the new Xbox NeXt 4k capable and now this:
Nintendo NX Will Be Capable Of Outputting 4K
It even has DDR4 Memory (between 6GB – 8GB). EDIT: Available to software.
If all the rumours about PS4K/Xbox X/ Nintendo NX are true and they all can output 4K, next-gen is offcially out.
Console manufacturers surely know what the competitors are doing that is why they all need to stay in competetion and do similar things to counter the rivals.
Nintendo NX Will Be Capable Of Outputting 4K
It even has DDR4 Memory (between 6GB – 8GB). EDIT: Available to software.
If all the rumours about PS4K/Xbox X/ Nintendo NX are true and they all can output 4K, next-gen is offcially out.
Console manufacturers surely know what the competitors are doing that is why they all need to stay in competetion and do similar things to counter the rivals.
A lot of people included me.
I'm going to take the NX leaks with a grain of salt. I recall people were saying how much more powerful the WiiU was over the PS360 and while it had more ram and a slightly better gpu, its cpu was laughable compared to the Cell and Xenon.
Which explained why some of the PS360 ports to WiiU had some odd issues.
Which explained why some of the PS360 ports to WiiU had some odd issues.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
So laughauble it beat PE in everything but FLOPS. Which did not help with ps3/360 ports, but let's not bastardize every single argument on these boards with 'this laughauble', 'that ancient', 'x86 or bust', shall we. I'm sure most gaffers could do better than that.
I'm struggling to see the difference.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
It surely takes an effort, but I stand by my beliefs ; )
BouncyFrag
Member
I hope this has better WiFi.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Marty Chinn
Member
No. Emulators typically, at least on the PC render them natively and not upscale. You're going to have to explain the difference between native rendering, up-rendering, and upscaling because so far all I've seen are examples of either rendering natively or an image being upscaled.
deathkiller
Member
Up-render is mainly buzzword/marketing term. The patent image shows a process slightly different from how emulators usually increase the internal rendering resolution but the end result is the same. (The difference is that it uses the original pixel position for one of the 4 samples instead of distributing all the samples positions uniformly).
Is far more clear to just say "increased internal resolution", specially if you don't know if they are using the patented method.
Tell me your definition of native rendering, upscaling, and uprendering then we can talk.
If you "increased internal resolution" what did you just do?
You up'ed the rendering, Why is that so hard to understand?
If PS4 games are native 1080p & you render them in 4K you up-rendered them to 4K.
If the PS4K is rendering at 1080p native and show it as 4k signal, it's called upscaling.
If the PS4K is rendering at 1440p native and show it as 4k signal, but OG PS4 is rendering at 1080p. That means the PS4K increase the internal rendering resolution from 1080p to 1440p but still upscale it to 4k.
Uprender to 4k != native 4k render.
At this point, I think uprender is just a marketing/buzzword if it doesn't tell you the internal resolution. You should say "PS4K render at 1440p natively and upscaled to 4K" instead of "4K uprendered"
The games are not native anything.
The PS4 renders (many) games natively in a 1920 x 1080 pixel backbuffer (aka 1080p). Any potential PS4K would not be powerful enough to increase the backbuffer to anything close to 3840 x 2160 pixels (aka 4K). If anything, it might increase the backbuffer in one dimension or another to then better upscale it to match a 4K front buffer.
It most probably won't do that anyway, because if it uses its increased resources to do that, 1080p displays would hardly see increased image quality at all, just slightly better antialiasing due to supersampling. When the PS4K comes out, it will probably allow developers to make games look or run better in 1080p and then apply a clever upscaling to 4K. That way everybody could profit from it, not just 4K TV owners.
The PS4 renders (many) games natively in a 1920 x 1080 pixel backbuffer (aka 1080p). Any potential PS4K would not be powerful enough to increase the backbuffer to anything close to 3840 x 2160 pixels (aka 4K). If anything, it might increase the backbuffer in one dimension or another to then better upscale it to match a 4K front buffer.
It most probably won't do that anyway, because if it uses its increased resources to do that, 1080p displays would hardly see increased image quality at all, just slightly better antialiasing due to supersampling. When the PS4K comes out, it will probably allow developers to make games look or run better in 1080p and then apply a clever upscaling to 4K. That way everybody could profit from it, not just 4K TV owners.
This poses many problems to the quantic scalar nodes for the raster modules though.
¯\_(ツ
_/¯
_/¯
geordiemp
Member
Logically only when ps4k sales would outnumber OG ps4 sales, as all developers want money and a bad performing game does not sell as well.
When that happens is impossible to predict, but OG ps4 will have a 40 + million head start, so even if Ps4k goes full steam at 15 million per year it will still take minimum 3 years before Ps4K is the main attraction.
If Sony keep selling OG Ps4, then Ps4K may never be the base console, and will just get parity or better effects / frame rate and will always be a second thought.
I personally will still get it as big devs on AAA game slike say Witcher or a Frostbite game will I think offer nicer things for Ps4k, but will still be focussed on their main audience.
What will happen though is Ps4K settings will be used to SHOW OFF games ....thats for sure, but no different to ubisoft showing games running on Titan X
You may be able to compensate that by polarizing the deflector shields in reverse order.This poses many problems to the quantic scalar nodes for the raster modules though.
¯_(ツ
i'll show myself out, thanks
Then you better make sure to modulate the bifocal RAM interface before you extrapolate the spectral matrix.
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Must have missed that in training. Is it in the handbook?
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Hopefully it has the latest HD interface (latest SATA whatever) to boost perf.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Only a small part of the userbase is really interesting for publishers. The biggest part of gamers buy CoD/Madden/FIFA and occasionally another game at sale. But there is a minority who buys many games and at full price. It's likely that these gamers are the first to switch to the new console. If PS4k sells 15 million in its first year the PS4 would be only an afterthought for developers and publishers.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
NVME or bust!
Imagine how quick games would load on 2500MB/s read NVME SSD. homerdrool.jpg
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
No, you cant simply drop in a new SoC. There will be no official upgrade path. Once the new system is out the market will be flooded with PS4s and the price will drop to next to nothing leaving you to foot the $250+ bill.
Also, it really helps while reticulating splines.
Zero chance. And I doubt console motherboards use socketed processors even if it were possible.
Of course maybe retail would offer a trade-in deal, like say gamestop.
But really if the 4K comes to pass it seems like they are going to follow the Apple model. New revision priced like the original at launch with the current one price dropped to get the budget conscious on board.
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
this so much. the internet on the PS4 is dreadful. it took me 40 minutes to download the 3.50 update over wifi. it was only 286mb. i have 75 down / 5 up internet connection. it should really have only taken about 30-40 seconds.
playing games online or streaming netflix works OK but i dread the thought of downloading games or updates. I've never seen my PS4 get the speeds I pay for. even when i used ethernet i was getting no where near 75 down.
my pc, smartphone, laptop, and xb1 have no bother connecting to the internet in the same room as the PS4.
The SSD performance is not throttled by the SATA interface, but by system design. The ARM Coprocessor has access to it as well as the main CPU, so it isn't directly attached. Also you have to factor in encryption. While a redesign / semi-successor surely can improve performance there, you will never get PC-like throughput out of it.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
I must the say HD performance is good (well i'm satisfied with it). BluRay installation is super fast. I just hope for further improvement if at all possible.
ninjablade
Banned
It really is hilarious, you have developers literally saying how weak the cpu compared to 360/ps3, then blue comes out with some test he did at home or some theory or speculation if why it's as powerful or even more powerful, when developers with NDA comment on how weak the cpu compared to lastgen, then you know there is a big problem.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Thought PS4 only had SATA2 interface which means you are looking at 265-285MB/s on any SATA3 SSD.
Gee
Member
Ditto
Marty Chinn
Member
You really don't seem to understand what you're talking about. This is not the first time it seems like you read a buzz word and latched on to it without fully understanding what you're reading. I ask again, tell me the difference between native rendering, up rendering and upscaling. All you did was say it's up-rendered without explaining what the difference is between these three techniques. If you can't explain the difference on a basic technical level, how can you even be sure you understand what they mean? At least a few of us here have asked you to define the three things and how they differ. For starters games in itself aren't a native resolution. They are set to render at a native resolution. Just like PC games aren't defined by some set resolution.