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[Dictator93]

Youtube Video here: "Continuing Development: EVA Transitions" (It is more visually obvious from 3rd person, starting at 1:15)

The way it works (as I understand it):

You start out in gravity zones in the above default state. Animation driven per muscle constraints, inertia, and weight. Since Star Citizen has merged first and thrid person animation sets and assets, it is more like a third person shooter from Naughty Dog or so where you have to wait on animation transitions and your character starts and stops.

Transitioning to EVA or out of gravity areas, you take on an animation/ai (if NPC) driven ragdoll that is bounded by the muscle constraints. The limbs and such can rebound off of things, bend and flex to fit with in areas, and has inertia applied (you can see motion carrying on in the limbs after thrusters change vector direction). An applied force from hitting something or being hit by something, will contort the body within constraints.

When you come back into a gravity zone at steep or sharp angles, you are placed (in first person mind you) into a pure ragdoll state so the physics engine can "punish" you as per the video. Then you return to the living character state per a contextual animation.

 

[Aztechnology]

That hits my Zero-G-Spot

 

[jmga]

Looks pretty good and very natural.

Any word on when they will start optimizing the game?

 

[Possumowner]

Glorious... Now when is the game due

 

[Aztechnology]

Looks pretty good and very natural.

Any word on when they will start optimizing the game?

Honestly they've already started. The PU is much much smoother than it was even a few months ago. I often get ~60 fps on high settings with a 970. But my CPU is pretty beastly (5820k 4.5ghz)

 

[mrqs]

For sure not "euphoria-like". Euphoria makes the character reacts a lot more, in this video when he crashes in the floor he just stay on a doll position and doesn't react at all. In Euphoria he would try to protect himselft from any damage.

Actually i don't see much similarities from Euphoria in this video. Wich is insane how Rockstar can dominate this area for so, so long.

 

[Dictator93]

Actually i don't see much similarities from Euphoria in this video. Wich is insane how Rockstar can dominate this area for so, so long.

That is the first person player character in the video, they will not directly take control over you and make you do things that you do not command to do (i.e. protect yourself, i.e. raise your hands when you do not command it, etc.). What an NPC does (ala GTA or The FOrce Unleashed) is not demonstrated in this video.

 

[ponpo]

The timing of some of those rocket booster / jet things on his back seem a little odd.

Unless they are firing in response to the recoil from him shooting. Would be pretty impressed if that was it lol.

 

[mrqs]

That is the first person player character in the video, they will not directly take control over you and make you do things that you do not command to do (i.e. protect yourself, i.e. raise your hands when you do not command it, etc.). What an NPC does (ala GTA or The FOrce Unleashed) is not demonstrated in this video.

So why use the term "Euphoria like" if this doesn't have anything to do with it? Euphoria is known for being so reactive and realistic, this just shows people floating in space and, when it's supposed to be reactive, just acts as straight ragdool.

Nothing against the game, i just don't understand the thought proccess.

 

[Dictator93]

Unless they are firing in response to the recoil from him shooting. Would be pretty impressed if that was it lol.

It is that (note the firing of thrusters after gun shots):

 

[Renmyra]

I'm already getting motion sick watching that spinning in first person. Imagine in VR...

Looks good though.

 

[benny_a]

It's okay but I agree that it doesn't show the parts that are good about Euphoria. This doesn't have the reactiveness of Euphoria.

The floppy ragdoll isn't even impressive by last gen standards. It's serviceable.

 

[Burny]

Am I the only one getting the impression every aspect of Star Citizen's development is being overblown out of any reasonable proportions?

This looks good, ignoring the imo janky and probably non-interactive watch-my-character's-ragdoll-do-its-little-dance-for-five-seconds parts. Seriously though? It's Rockstar/Naughty Dog level of character animation and transitons with added zero G part. In a game about seemless EVA and zero G transitions with aspirations to be cinematic. It's in the grand scheme of things a minute piece of the puzzle. If they couldn't get that much right, they'd have no business in attempting to make that game.

It's also nearly four (!) years and 110 Mio.$ funding into the game's development, to put the whole "we can do the basic required animations for our game" into a financing and time context. Iirc, the single player portion Squadron 42 or parts of it are supposed to be released by the end of this year.

 

[benny_a]

This looks good, ignoring the imo janky and probably non-interactive watch-my-character's-ragdoll-do-its-little-dance-for-five-seconds parts. Seriously though? It's Rockstar/Naughty Dog level of character animation and transitons with added zero G part. In a game about seemless EVA and zero G transitions with aspirations to be cinematic. It's in the grand scheme of things a minute piece of the puzzle. If they couldn't get that much right, they'd have no business in attempting to make that game.

I disagree that this looks as good as Rockstar and ND animations.

It's especially noticeable in the transitions. I don't think this is up there with the two top tier studios when it comes to animation.

That isn't to say it's bad. It's just not especially noteworthy. The spinning around the Y-Axis in the DrivenRagdoll looks quite nice though.

 

[Aztechnology]

Am I the only one getting the impression every aspect of Star Citizen's development is being overblown out of any reasonable proportions?

This looks good, ignoring the imo janky and probably non-interactive watch-my-character's-ragdoll-do-its-little-dance-for-five-seconds parts. Seriously though? It's Rockstar/Naughty Dog level of character animation and transitons with added zero G part. In a game about seemless EVA and zero G transitions with aspirations to be cinematic. It's in the grand scheme of things a minute piece of the puzzle. If they couldn't get that much right, they'd have no business in attempting to make that game.

It's also four (!) years and 110 Mio.$ funding into the game's development to put the whole "we can do the basic required animations for our game" into a financing and time context. Iirc, the single player portion Squadron 42 or parts of it are supposed to be released by the end of this year.

Derek. Just stop man.

All kidding aside, most of us fully realize this game is going to take a long time. This is still Alpha footage. I don't mind waiting. This is a game where many of us are just enjoying the ride. I don't expect them to deliver on all their promises. Like I've said before, even if it just turns out to be ARMA in space, that would be incredible to me.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'm already getting motion sick watching that spinning in first person. Imagine in VR...

Looks good though.

Nothing I've seen of this game looks like a good fit for VR, beyond looking around your cockpit. Lots of suplerfluous animatons and linking of head position with your 3D char's head seem unsuited.
I think Elite should go off the other way in a full VR friendly direction, even if that means exploring places in Wall-E style chairs instead of on foot.

 

[Burny]

Derek. Just stop man.

Not to mention that any criticism directed at Star Citizen means being likened to that lunatic, because he's such a convenient straw man.

 

[SmartBase]

I'm more impressed by the framerate in that video considering how early in development the game is.

 

[Aztechnology]

Not to mention that any criticism directed at Star Citizen means being likened to that lunatic, because he's such a convenient straw man.

The problem is you're directing all this criticsm towards the game prior to release. We have no idea what the expect by the end of the year, or early next year. SQ42 is an entirely different beast than the PU which has no set release. How can you so harshly condemn something that's doing things never tried before. They can take whatever time they need, the community seems to largely be ok with it.

 

[tuxfool]

I'm more impressed by the framerate in that video considering how early in development the game is.

Well, they're running it on private servers or offline. The framerate of the game is perfectly fine then. Currently the primary thing limiting performance is purely the servers.

 

[Dictator93]

I disagree that this looks as good as Rockstar and ND animations.

It's especially noticeable in the transitions. I don't think this is up there with the two top tier studios when it comes to animation.

Well, beyond the fact that it is a preview video from a WIP game, you cannot have considerable input delay in first person shooter (aka, full animation driven in transition and otherwise). Their animation director has commented on this quite a lot as they themselves struggled with making the animations realistic yet responsive. So it is a balancing act between having animations correctly transition based upon constraints, and giving the player the control they need to enjoy the game. Hence why stuff like Ryse or Quantum break allow you to do single frame transitions which come at the cost of realistic animation.

So why use the term "Euphoria like" if this doesn't have anything to do with it? Euphoria is known for being so reactive and realistic, this just shows people floating in space and, when it's supposed to be reactive, just acts as straight ragdool.

Nothing against the game, i just don't understand the thought proccess.

I mean, I could quote the wiki article definition of what Euophoria is, but I think you can find it as well. The physicalised animation aspect is what makes it "Euphoria-like" IMO, hence why I used the term. Having the AI (aka, not the player character) have other priorties on top of that (keeping alive, hanging on to ledges, etc. as shown in games like The Force Unleashed or GTA) is anti-thetical to first person control, so that is not going to be something player characters will do. NPCs is a whole other story of course.

Am I the only one getting the impression every aspect of Star Citizen's development is being overblown out of any reasonable proportions?

This looks good, ignoring the imo janky and probably non-interactive watch-my-character's-ragdoll-do-its-little-dance-for-five-seconds parts. Seriously though? It's Rockstar/Naughty Dog level of character animation and transitons with added zero G part. In a game about seemless EVA and zero G transitions with aspirations to be cinematic. It's in the grand scheme of things a minute piece of the puzzle. If they couldn't get that much right, they'd have no business in attempting to make that game.

It's also nearly four (!) years and 110 Mio.$ funding into the game's development, to put the whole "we can do the basic required animations for our game" into a financing and time context. Iirc, the single player portion Squadron 42 or parts of it are supposed to be released by the end of this year.

Burny, I guess I am troubled that you do not find physicalised animations for an FPS game sync'd over multiplayer to be a unique or challenging ambition. I cannot think of any game that does it, and I think it is a time and resource consuming process to make it work if it works at all.

 

[Alienous]

I'm more impressed by the framerate in that video considering how early in development the game is.

Early?

I feel like I've been hearing about this for years.

 

[SmartBase]

Well, they're running it on private servers or offline. The framerate of the game is perfectly fine then. Currently the primary thing limiting performance is purely the servers.

Early?

I feel like I've been hearing about this for years.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[benny_a]

Well, beyond the fact that it is a preview video from a WIP game, you cannot have considerable input delay in first person shooter (aka, full animation driven in transition and otherwise). Their animation director has commented on this quite a lot as they themselves struggled with making the animations realistic yet responsive. So it is a balancing act between having animations correctly transition based upon constraints, and giving the player the control they need to enjoy the game. Hence why stuff like Ryse or Quantum break allow you to do single frame transitions which come at the cost of realistic animation.

You invited this comparison and I don't think the posted video stacks up.

And the reason for that isn't just because anticipation and responsiveness are sworn enemies.

 

[Zabojnik]

Well, they're running it on private servers or offline. The framerate of the game is perfectly fine then. Currently the primary thing limiting performance is purely the servers.

Which bodes very well for Squadron 42. Well, at least until those humongous Vanduul / UEE capital ships start showing up, lunching dozens of fighters, anyway.

 

[tuxfool]

I was being sarcastic.

Of course. Which is why I said what I did.

 

[Dictator93]

You invited this comparison and I don't think the posted video stacks up.

My comment was not about quality or anything, but rather about the animation not being like Call of Duty or even battlefield, aka, it is just the thirdperson model transitioning that drives your FPS character. Something FPS games do not do, rather, third person games do.

 

[Refreshment.01]

This seems like a FPS game that pays emphasis on "authenticity" and thus a more slow pace for traversal and gunplay. A trend i was hoping to see since the 6th generation of consoles. i like this a lot.

However, what's up with the traditional steady cam gun animation? Hopefully they are considereing stances and animations that look more natural when just holding the gun.

 

[KKRT00]

People that are commenting about animation quality or transitions should understand the principles behind this.
In every other game, except maybe for Arma, the animations in 3rd person are different to those in 1st person. In Star Citizen it is not the case, the 3rd person animations are 1st person animations, so all of them need to work from FPP.
By need to work, i mean that they need to look good from first person view, they need to not occlude the view and they need to be responsive as in any other shooter.

Now You have to add to this zero G movement and procedural animations in zero-G movement where You have things like legs going up when You fly through obstacle or arms straighten forward when You pass through really tight tunnel.

Now think about it and then watch this video again. Then go and watch Uncharted gameplay video and imagine seeing all of those Uncharted animations from FPP view and then watch video in OP again.

Ps. Euphoria like comparison was due to this being procedural and physics reaction based system.

 

[Aztechnology]

People that are commenting about animation quality or transitions should understand the principles behind this.
In every other game, except maybe for Arma, the animations in 3rd person are different to those in 1st person. In Star Citizen it is not the case, the 3rd person animations are 1st person animations, so all of them need to work from FPP.
By need to work, i mean that they need to look good from first person view, they need to not occlude the view and they need to be responsive as in any other shooter.

Now You have to add to this zero G movement and procedural animations in zero-G movement where You have things like legs going up when You fly through obstacle or arms straighten forward when You pass through really tight tunnel.

Now think about it and then watch this video again. Then go and watch Uncharted gameplay video and imagine seeing all of those Uncharted animations from FPP view and then watch video in OP again.

Ps. Euphoria like comparison was due to this being procedural and physics reaction based system.

I think this is a really good thing to take into account, putting it into that perspective given it was a huge challenge for them to overcome will help others understand why this is really impressive.

 

[petethepanda]

I imagine it'll change, but my first thought was how frustrating it must be in first person to wait for the ragdoll to "settle" before you can get up.

 

[Aztechnology]

I imagine it'll change, but my first thought was how frustrating it must be in first person to wait for the ragdoll to "settle" before you can get up.

Yea they'll definitely work that out. Nobody wants to be jigglin on the ground.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

The problem is you're directing all this criticsm towards the game prior to release. We have no idea what the expect by the end of the year, or early next year. SQ42 is an entirely different beast than the PU which has no set release. How can you so harshly condemn something that's doing things never tried before. They can take whatever time they need, the community seems to largely be ok with it.

The problem is the core gameplay is still (after 2 years of "testing"), frankly a mess. Honestly I don't care to much on the technical side when they still can seem to understand the basics of ship to ship combat and piloting, not to mention the still broken controller mechanics. S42 is supposed to be out within the next year that is far more worrying than animation.

 

[Raticus79]

I'm already getting motion sick watching that spinning in first person. Imagine in VR...

Looks good though.

Yeah, they'll need to go third person for most of the on-foot stuff and animations I think.

Still worth it for the potential to outmaneuver everyone thanks to spatial awareness.

---

I think it's a bit too early for comparisons to Euphoria, but that will be worth revisiting when they implement "grabby hands" for things like moving through doorways in zero-G.

 

[Burny]

Burny, I guess I am troubled that you do not find physicalised animations for an FPS game sync'd over multiplayer to be a unique or challenging ambition. I cannot think of any game that does it, and I think it is a time and resource consuming process to make it work if it works at all.

And I guess I find the need to shout the news from the rooftops when a video shows a character walking off/onto a ledge/falling flat on their face into a zone of different gravity pretty irritating. In the time and financing context I mentioned above, when the playable "Alpha 2.0" is a broken mess, when their scope would allow for myriads of situations where the characters enter/leave such zones e.g. through differently shaped ship doors warranting more complex transitions not shown in a really smooth form yet, when other - primarily 3rd person games - have both similar animation systems and multiplayer (and GTA5 even has a limited FPS mode on top of it) - I guess I fail to see how the video showing off a tiny detail of all the things their animation engine has to be able to do is threadworthy news.

I may be wrong of course. Maybe I just don't realize how this perfectly shows off "physicalised animations for an FPS game sync'd over multiplayer" and how it constitutes a revolutionary new breakthrough, instead of some absolutely fundamental functional requirement for Star Citizen to even work as a game.

 

[Krejlooc]

I may be wrong of course. Maybe I just don't realize how this perfectly shows off "physicalised animations for an FPS game sync'd over multiplayer" and how it constitutes a revolutionary new breakthrough, instead of some absolutely fundamental functional requirement for Star Citizen to even work as a game.

It can be both, you know? Something can be an impressive new technique and fundamental to the framework of the game.

"This thing we just made is great!"

"Pft, fuck you, you needed to make it in the first place."

do you not see how this reaction does not fit the context of the discussion?

yet, when other - primarily 3rd person games - have both similar animation systems and multiplayer (and GTA5 even has a limited FPS mode on top of it)

GTAV does NOT have a similar animation system, at all. GTAIV did, and the work required to get it in game was massive and constant - it needed to be deeply integrated into the game from the get go. These types of physics driven animation systems are monstrous undertakings, which is precisely why they are bragging about it.

When making GTAV, rockstar decided the amount of work to get a physics driven animation system was simply too much for their scope and dropped it. It's extremely ironic that you'd compare this to GTAV, considering that GTAV in and of itself is sort of a testament to how difficult this type of system is to create.

 

[Nuu]

This...doesn't look that good?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Procedural animation is really awesome for games with a lot of scope; always fun in Red Dead and GTA and whatnot to play around with. It's still something that runs up against intuitive control sometime but considering how few games use it I'm sure we'll start seeing games that strike a good balance between controllable and unpredictable/unique reactions soon.

GTAV does NOT have a similar animation system, at all. GTAIV did, and the work required to get it in game was massive and constant - it needed to be deeply integrated into the game from the get go. These types of physics driven animation systems are monstrous undertakings, which is precisely why they are bragging about it.

When making GTAV, rockstar decided the amount of work to get a physics driven animation system was simply too much for their scope and dropped it. It's extremely ironic that you'd compare this to GTAV, considering that GTAV in and of itself is sort of a testament to how difficult this type of system is to create.

It was toned down in some ways (especially on non-player characters) but it was still there in V. It still uses Euphoria.

 

[Kezen]

This is really impressive.

 

[Durante]

I may be wrong of course. Maybe I just don't realize how this perfectly shows off "physicalised animations for an FPS game sync'd over multiplayer" and how it constitutes a revolutionary new breakthrough, instead of some absolutely fundamental functional requirement for Star Citizen to even work as a game.

Some of the things require for Star Citizen to work as a game are also breakthroughs. It's really quite ambitious.

 

[KKRT00]

I'll just post webms from other threads

https://u.pomf.is/pdpmrp.webm

https://u.pomf.is/qdflhp.webm

 

[Purple Cheeto]

EUPHORIA LIKE

I hope some day my grand kids get to play a finished and working Star Citizen.

 

[Kezen]

EUPHORIA LIKE

I hope some day my grand kids get to play a finished and working Star Citizen.

Going by the progress made in a few months I don't think the wait is going to be long.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Going by the progress made in a few months I don't think the wait is going to be long.

You say that and then Chris Roberts says stuff like:

And partly that was because the server on the physics step was running at a much slower framerate than the client so we’re working on things to make all that better, it’s a work-in-progress, it will take a little while to get going but once it does, it will be better and there will be a lot more people in the instances and we’ll be moving smoothly. So these are all things that the network team is working on – I wish we had more members of the network team, we have essentially about 4 engineers that work on the game server network side and then we have another 3 that working in the backend services side. But if any of you out there are network engineers and wanna work on a really ambitious game, let us know, because we’ve had open positions for this for quite a while.

We’re always looking for good people because the things that we need is networkers, there’s a big need for us on the engineering side, AI is a big need and physics – if there’s any physics geniuses out there but if you talk to anyone in the game business, those are all the areas that are it’s genuinely hard to find people. We’re moving along and it’s going to be pretty cool when it’s all said and done, cause it’s basically building a system, I’ve talked about it before, that the next generation of how you build these online cloud-driven systems, so we can distribute it across many servers and process more than you would in traditional single-server setups.

So anyway, probably a long answer for whether or not there will be spaces for more additional pilot players, but there you go.

And I feel like this is the new Duke Nukem forever.

The physics quote is funny to me because I once had one of their designers rave to me about the genius physics guy they had programming stuff on the game. I wonder if he quit like a lot of other people did.

 

[KKRT00]

You say that and then Chris Roberts says stuff like:



And I feel like this is the new Duke Nukem forever.

The physics quote is funny to me because I once had one of their designers rave to me about the genius physics guy they had programming stuff on the game. I wonder if he quit like a lot of other people did.

A lot of other people did?


If You listened to more of that interview, Chris said that not all changes are in baby PU right now and some are still finishing development. Like for example ship streaming, they are changing the way they are streaming ships and all of its objects and they will reduce the footprint from several mb to few kb for example.
There is also a difference between getting this to work with 24 players and 100 players + AI, which is end goal.

 

[Kezen]

You say that and then Chris Roberts says stuff like:



And I feel like this is the new Duke Nukem forever.

The physics quote is funny to me because I once had one of their designers rave to me about the genius physics guy they had programming stuff on the game. I wonder if he quit like a lot of other people did.

This is supposed to imply that the game will not be out in a timely fashion ? A game (especially the MMO part) is never finished in the strictest sense.

 

[Stiler]

The animations are good but it doesn't make much sense.

How is the character controlling his movement while floating in space if his hands are holding that?

With a mmu like Nasa uses it's controlled with your hands.

 

[Aztechnology]

The animations are good but it doesn't make much sense.

How is the character controlling his movement while floating in space if his hands are holding that?

With a mmu like Nasa uses it's controlled with your hands.

I'm not sure if they've explained it. (I haven't been following as closely as I would have liked) But the year is 2945. So, I'm sure they have some kind of neural or sensory link. I mean we already have the technology in the works today with prosthesis and the like.

 

[Dictator93]

The physics quote is funny to me because I once had one of their designers rave to me about the genius physics guy they had programming stuff on the game. I wonder if he quit like a lot of other people did.

That would be Paul Reindell or John Pritchett I believe. They both still seem to be working at CIG.

And I guess I find the need to shout the news from the rooftops when a video shows a character walking off/onto a ledge/falling flat on their face into a zone of different gravity pretty irritating. In the time and financing context I mentioned above, when the playable "Alpha 2.0" is a broken mess, when their scope would allow for myriads of situations where the characters enter/leave such zones e.g. through differently shaped ship doors warranting more complex transitions not shown in a really smooth form yet, when other - primarily 3rd person games - have both similar animation systems and multiplayer (and GTA5 even has a limited FPS mode on top of it) - I guess I fail to see how the video showing off a tiny detail of all the things their animation engine has to be able to do is threadworthy news.

I may be wrong of course. Maybe I just don't realize how this perfectly shows off "physicalised animations for an FPS game sync'd over multiplayer" and how it constitutes a revolutionary new breakthrough, instead of some absolutely fundamental functional requirement for Star Citizen to even work as a game.

You seem more miffed that I posted a thread about it, rather than the content itself.

 

[atpbx]

It is looking good and coming together nicely.

The only bad thing about following Star Citizens development is people who literally have no idea about game development what so ever telling us how it won't ever come out and how it's impossible to make.

Well I've got news for you, I have no idea about game development what so ever as well, I'm telling you it's coming along just fine.

I mean there are people who literally just work in McDonald's or delivering pizza for a living writing diatribes about how the game can't be done.