probably accurate
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Western Localisation Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Features Costume And Age Changes
- Thread starter Storm Chamber
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probably accurate
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Yea, honestly.
Benzychenz
Member
Happy to see the localisation localising things.
Samus has always had a "sexy" set of pictures in her games, usually for higher-% completion runs or fast times.
But she:
- Is not a teenage girl in school or put in situations that can be construed as being taken advantage of sexually or otherwise (probably having to do with the fact that, in character, she's a walking natural disaster in terms of capabilities and self-confidence (Other what... M? Never heard of it.).
- Was raised by birdmen and is part-bird DNA.
- Participates in extinction campaigns against alien races.
- Blows up planets.
- Major characters in her games are usually (a.) already dead or (b.) guaranteed to die.
- Fights space dragons that are just far too big.
- All of her games are dark themed or of a similar tone, and has a general expectation associated with her games.
- Can be on occasion seen beating up two small children from Earthbound, and taking on such eldritch abominations such as Kirby. Also fights witches, angels, pole-dancing angels, demons, and edgelord-angels.
- Has nothing to do with Fire Emblem.
SolidSnakex
Member
I think it's because for the most part localizatons are coming over without much of anything changed. We've gone from the point in the 80's, 90's and even mid-2000's where Nintendo would remove any religious imagery and were tight on violence, as well as a point where companies would just straight out change the race of characters during the localization, to a point where companies try to make sure that everything stays intact. Except Nintendo. Nintendo of America specifically.
Since we're talking about Atlus as well, take their localization of Dungeon Travelers 2 last year. They did make edits to four cards for its release. But the difference between those edits and what we're seeing with Nintendo is that they were completely upfront about it. Not only were they upfront, but the reasons for the edits made sense. They said that if they didn't do these then it would change the ESRB rating, which was already at M. And that means that they'd be looking at an A/O rating, which would mean that they couldn't release the game at all in the US. So you could get mad about the changes, but you at least had to understand that it was a "we can either edit this and release it or not" situation. The edits were simply required for the release.
If Nintendo would actually explain why they're making these changes then maybe people could understand their decision like in the case of DT2. But Nintendo can't even be bothered to give people a simple explanation.
Crash Station
Member
I guess we can just pick and choose what words and terms mean now:
And even normal censorship doesn't need a governing body to happen. Network censorship is a big one.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
B-b-but I would never be in favour of censorship! It has to be something else.
Bumbletron
Member
We've had this censorship/localization discussion for too long and in too many threads now. Neither side is going to concede at this point, so why don't we just let it be and talk about something productive?
Like: Who was actually going to buy the DLC? It may very well be the case that that particular DLC wasn't forecast to sell well. Although given reactions in this thread, I can only assume that there were quite a few gaffers who were going to buy it, so who knows.
Like: Who was actually going to buy the DLC? It may very well be the case that that particular DLC wasn't forecast to sell well. Although given reactions in this thread, I can only assume that there were quite a few gaffers who were going to buy it, so who knows.
So long as the actual skin of the women wasn't plot important, this ultimately seems fine if not somewhat disappointing. Censorship is never really great (the only times I'm in favour of it is when the original content is even worse, like Japan's fascination with sexualising children), but if they're keeping the original VO I doubt any changes will be that substantial.
For this type of game, I assume you'd generally want to sell DLC since it's a way to get more money out of a game with expected low sales.
BeardyChan
Member
Something that's already a niche title to begin with gets more work put into it for no good reason. It serves no purpose and is just a waste on both sides, it doesn't change the fact that the game won't have a huge audience.
Personally give the player the option, the work is already done. If I want the uncensored non localized version give me the option. I don't care if its through a pay DLC at this point. Because if enough people buy it they'll realize that we want the game as it was originally intended. It'll also devalue the cost associated with making all of these changes.
Personally give the player the option, the work is already done. If I want the uncensored non localized version give me the option. I don't care if its through a pay DLC at this point. Because if enough people buy it they'll realize that we want the game as it was originally intended. It'll also devalue the cost associated with making all of these changes.
GinoFelino
Member
Dudes whining about this were wrong the last time and they're wrong this time.
This game looks fun and camp, it doesn't need to be pervy too. The more people can fully enjoy this, the better.
This game looks fun and camp, it doesn't need to be pervy too. The more people can fully enjoy this, the better.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
They are swimsuits. For both male and female characters.
"Less options are better".
SolidSnakex
Member
The fact that the game is only subbed will turn more people off to it than bikinis.
The only reason they're keeping the Japanese voices is because they know the game will bomb, and it wouldn't be worth the money to find high-quality voice actors to dub the game who can also sing the songs in it.
Bumbletron
Member
Fair point. Do you think this particular one would sell? I'm honestly interested. I've been thinking about it, and while it may get couple thousand bucks or so, it really doesn't seem like DLC that would sell too well to me.
Do the women in swimsuits have ages that magically change depending on the country the magazine is sold in?
on dubs at least i think they made the right call at least from a profit/loss standpoint... it's the kind of game that would kill a localisation studio with the amount of text/ui/all kindsa stuff in it, dumping voice direction on top of that? man... wouldn't want to be in those shoes
GinoFelino
Member
The swimsuit DLC is only part of the story here. Most of those localisation decisions are common-sense changes, not the limiting of options.
Subtitles are pretty common in many parts of Europe, by the way.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Niche games like these tend to attract DLC whales.
No, it does not. People have been using the word "censorship" to describe removal of offensive content from localized games for decades.
Are you going to try appealing to the dictionary? Because there are multiple dictionaries, and they disagree with each other. Oxford's definition matches yours, but Cambridge's doesn't; The American Encyclopedia acknowledges that "censorship/censor" is used in both a broad and a narrow sense. So you're going to need to specify which definition you're using, and why you feel it's valid while the other ones aren't.
Yeah. Even in Japan, this game sold about 33,000. Just to use some other games from the other series, Persona 2 PSP which had poor sales for Atlus in Japan sold about 60,000.
List of Fire Emblem sales from Nirolak in an old Neogaf thread:
I suppose the fact Atlus doesn't normally work on anything that goes directly to Europe can be a factor.
Yep, like me. I pretty much always buy DLC. The fact that the DLC is likely cut out of this is a key reason that I'm refusing to buy it. I feel like I'm not getting the full game if Nintendo is denying anyone Not-Japan the DLC and they can piss off.
Agreed. I'm shocked we're even getting it at all, to be frank, so I don't mind a sub only thing really. Anyone that was interested in this game to begin with probably feels the same way.
...which again further raises my incredible confusion about editing/censoring/whatever'ing this in the first place.
Same reason for not releasing the DLC too, to be honest. It can't have cost as much to release it over here if they're not going to dub it(no more budget concerns over VA), and anyone who would want to buy it know exactly what it is so it's more money you're earning for your game to begin with. Moreover, it's not content that's in the actual game, and something you have to go out of your way to get. A lot of decisions about this are just...odd.
Bumbletron
Member
See that's why I'm wondering about the DLC. Usually, you'd use DLC to hedge your bets and make back some of the money you feel you're going to lose on the venture. But if sales for this game are truly so low, you have to wonder whether Nintendo would even risk it. Localizing (Not getting into any arguments here, talking about the actual process) DLC still costs money. More than, I believe, many of us might think. Especially when it's outsourced.
I know with certainty and will say without issue: If I buy cosmetic DLC it's because it's something very interesting in design. I will buy DLC I think looks like a good design. Swimsuits just don't do it for me. They always seem to look the same in video games. I'm still target audience for the game, and I may pick up the others, but I never had any intention of picking up swimsuit DLC to begin with. Not to say some wouldn't have, but I still have yet to see anyone here say that they were going to pick it up. And that just makes me question the demand for this particular set to begin with.
artsi
Member
Pervy? C'mon.
This is my position. Annoying, unnecessary, irksome... nothing more.
I think it´s pretty silly but it´s not going to affect my enjoyment of the game neither will move me to send angry tweets to Nintendo.
(BTW, it´s censorship, you can dress it however you want, but it´s what it is. You can't even use the "translation is not supposed to be literal" card).
I buy DLC. A lot. I'm the asshole who buys Ubisoft Season Passes and the reason that they get made. I'm well aware that I'm an awful person because of this, sorry guys.
DLC getting cut is pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back for me not buying this game, because it makes me feel like I'm getting less of a game overall. If it was just cutting costumes, it may not have been that straw, but cutting any story DLC at all, no matter how fluffy it may be, is a huge affront to me. If they end up releasing the Hot Springs DLC after all I will reconsider my stance on purchasing the game. As it is though, it's just one too many things pushing me over the edge into Not Buying it.
Nintendo needs to get the fuck over Swimsuits. They're every day shit for anyone living near a coast and absolutely nothing shown in this game would make anyone used to them bat an eye. You see them every single day on US TV as well and no one freaks out over Bikinis here. Nintendo's behavior about them continues to baffle me.
Yabberwocky
Member
That is my favourite assessment of Samus, and I laughed out loud at the bolded. Oh, Samus, bounty hunting bird queen of my heart.
NoA/E just don't like this new level of otaku pandering that has infected so many Japanese games. They've seen what it could lead to:
Don't bring Azunyan into this. She's pure.
and wears a one piece swimsuit because she isn't dirty
MrSaturn99
Member
Thank you.
Elaugaufein
Member
Are we supposed to be happier about a larger group of people with a repressice outlook indirectly causing bizarre changed to these games than a smaller group of people directly deciding to make bizarre changes to these games ?
Because I have no idea why I would be. If anything it's more worrying to me that the "No one else can enjoy anything I dislike" social wave is on the rise again than that a bunch of people in corporate made weird decisions in the pursuit of cash.
My expectation is she won't be transforming into a bikini.
I'm not sure a game with what ~20 dollars or so total in DLC content can be seen as intending to attract whales.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I don't know where you are coming up with this? These are usually the best selling micro-DLC's. The work to localize the content compared to all of the main game is a drop in the bucket.
And that changes how a bit on the intent of the original scenario. It was meant as a moment of growth for Tsubasa.
Elaugaufein
Member
They may be misinterpreting the reason for DLC silence, I rarely talk about my DLC purchases for JRPG stuff because it's always everything except the stuff that's just "cheats" for in game items (and I my skip purely cosmetic costumes if ridiculous expensive or numerous). Judging by some of the things I've heard about attach rate for niche games I doubt I'm the only one.
They may take the Bravely Default approach where everyone acts like an actually fairly conservative two piece is scandously revealing (ie change the graphics but not the dialogue).
MrSaturn99
Member
I'm agreeing with the notion that Nintendo isn't telling consumers they can't handle breasts/undergarments, not the scenario you're describing.
For the record, however, I've said earlier in the thread that out of all the recent censorship controversies, I feel this is the only that holds any merit.
The edits always seem to take no regard for the original intent, which is more annoying than anything. There are valid reasons for media to be suggestive other than being "pervy". (lol).
Sometimes it has some unintended side effects though:
Not sure what the original intent of the quoted post is but I'm reading that by making kids fully clothed they become kids instead of "women" and ruin the justification for creeping.
Elaugaufein
Member
That's true enough. I think I misinterpreted a defence of Nintendo Policy as a defence of social practices that I'm not exactly a fan of.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, the goalpost moving for what qualifies as "censorship" in these debates is similar to how people tend to do mental gymnastics with definitions to claim that their shitty hateful remarks about/acts toward a race don't count as racism. [Word] is universally considered to be bad, but people still agree with/want to do some of the things that [word] refers to, so they try to change the definition of [word] to not apply to things they're okay with. I'd have slightly more respect for these people if they just said "yeah, it is [word], but [word] is okay in this case because [reasons]."
EDIT: Thinking more, I suppose it's a problem on either side that the line for something being okay/not okay is based around the definition of [word]. Why should this counting as censorship or not have any bearing on how okay it is?
Well the original statement from Atlus says that the changes are being made for various regions. I think it stands to reason that this is a catch all kind of localization for English speaking countries.
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