Nah, they can just continue to ignore it until people get the message.
It's what I'm expecting anyway. (I hate being so cynical. I usually try not to be like this >.<)
Western Localisation Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Features Costume And Age Changes
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Nah, they can just continue to ignore it until people get the message.
It's what I'm expecting anyway. (I hate being so cynical. I usually try not to be like this >.<)
cj_iwakura
Member
When I say devs, I literally mean the JP team that's incorporating the changes.
That's who I (and I believe others) was talking about as well.
cj_iwakura
Member
Ah, I thought you might mean the US branch. I'm still not sure how much of the dev team is Atlus and how much is Nintendo.
The main brunt of the development team is all Atlus, specifically the Devil Survivor team. Then, some of the leads are also from Atlus but from other teams like Mitsuru Hirata (Radiant Historia and SMT: Strange Journey) or Eiji Ishida (SMT: Strange Journey).
Then, only a few of the executives on the project were from Nintendo. These were notably Hitoshi Yamagami (producer) and Kaori Ando (director).
The rest was outsourced, like Avex handling the music, toi8 handling the character design and Hideo Minaba (Final Fantasy XI, CyDesignation) handling the Mirage design.
Atlus or at least Hardin(Atlusprime) has already said they can't, but the tweet was deleted because it was taken out of context.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaten/co...e_sessions_fe_suffers_more_censorship/d2fct87
MHWilliams
Member
This is where I stand. I can see it being annoying, but outright rage? That's the scale I don't quite understand. The gravure theme is still very much there.
You left out a key word right before that part.
Add English subs to the battle sections of the game.
cj_iwakura
Member
Don't think I've seen any game but Project X Zone even attempt to incorporate that. Atlus USA can't even subtitle Japanese songs properly. (Or at all)
Crash Station
Member
Are we still on the whole "it's only localization when it's something I don't like" thing?
I understand a lot of changes that publishers make ... but making changes that are directly related to the theme of the game is ridiculous. Bumping their age doesn't bother me, but the other stuff kind of does.
Meh ... it just seems like a stupid thing to do, and extra work for no purpose. If you can see girls in bathing suits on the Disney Channel, I'm not really sure what the issue is here.
Meh ... it just seems like a stupid thing to do, and extra work for no purpose. If you can see girls in bathing suits on the Disney Channel, I'm not really sure what the issue is here.
If a company is doing it willingly, how is that censorship?
Are the developers protesting or sommit?
cj_iwakura
Member
You really think they're going to say so openly?
If they care.
Crash Station
Member
Self-censorship is still censorship. Something doesn't have to be government-mandated to be censorship.
I really hope that they've subbed the musical performances in this game, because it'll be real bad if they didn't.
If Atlus cared, they wouldn't say it openly. That's absurd.
Ugh. Personally, I'd rather the topic focus on what's been changed, is it too for for certain users, should the changes be there, why were these changes made, etc. then go on for too many pages on another 'What is censorship' debate. It feels like the subject of importance loses focus because people can't agree on the use of a word.
If it's a change they honestly cared about and they don't bring it up to Nintendo, that's on them. Nintendo is willing to work with developers on stuff like this if Bayo 2 was anything to go by.
put all characters in hidjabs/burkas, they are too revealing!!!! this is too sexistic for me and the west.
seriously, i dont get this weird "censoring" of games. whats the difference between 17 and 18?
its not like the characters are having sex in the game or something.
there is also not a nipple or a penis visible, so i dont get this "revealing" thing in games these days.
we never had an issue before 2014 with "underage"-characters being too revealing or something.
why do we have this kind of stuff going on these days?
seriously, i dont get this weird "censoring" of games. whats the difference between 17 and 18?
its not like the characters are having sex in the game or something.
there is also not a nipple or a penis visible, so i dont get this "revealing" thing in games these days.
we never had an issue before 2014 with "underage"-characters being too revealing or something.
why do we have this kind of stuff going on these days?
Crash Station
Member
In that case, we're arguing semantics. Either way, that doesn't make it right, unless you also think Nintendo changing Vivian from a MTF transgender to just a girl is also "localization" that shouldn't be criticized.
I'm not talking about Nintendo—I'm sure Atlus have had extensive conversations with them about these changes either way—but that's not "publicly." In fact, it's the opposite.
I wonder if anything changed regarding that jarring Tsubasa swimsuit transformation shown in the first real trailer for the game: https://youtu.be/0fS24IxelBA?t=40s
Modest Mauser
Member
Nintendo (and other companies for that matter) have been censoring/altering content for releases in different regions for literally decades, it isn't really a new phenomenon.
For a random example, this sprite in FFVI on the SNES.
I do wonder if someone at NoA panics at the thought that if they didn't cut this extremely mild content from their game, cnn.com and other sites would pick up on the scandal and ruin their company.
This whole censoring thing is such a non-issue I wonder why they even bother to begin with. You're literally not going to piss off anyone to release the game as is, and you piss people off by censoring it. Hell, you probably piss more people off by doing so.
I never said it shouldn't be. Localization of games has been criticized for a long ass time, and it's a great way to let Nintendo know how to make smarter (or less/more) changes to their localization to other countries in the future.
Crash Station
Member
I just assumed this post:
implied you weren't cool with the criticism. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
Oh, no no, oh course I'm OK with it. Sorry, it was too much in shit-post mode.
People criticizing about Nintendo not including gay marriage in one game, or the change of a trans character in another is the absolute best way to them them better understand the evolving social norms in America so they can do better in the future.
i know you are right, but that was in the 90s.
i have the feeling that during the 2000s no one gave a shit about those issues.
now the topic is going full apeshit.
on the other hand we have games like hyperdimension neptunia, where tons of lolis are present, and then we have those games, which get censored...
cj_iwakura
Member
Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.
From what I saw in the gameplay video, aren't the musical performances that are used as attacks unsubbed?
I've personally avoided the footage but, from what I've been hearing and the little I've seen, it seems all Japanese audio during combat segments (including elaborate special moves) are unsubbed.
But for how plot/theme relevant some of the character specific signature songs are supposed to be, like the Kiria one that they like to highlight, it'll actually be a significantly negative deal in this game if we don't get to understand them at all. It'll be especially egregious after hearing Treehouse pondering the difficulty of finding English VAs to sing in English.
The PAX build likely wasn't final, so perhaps battle subs will be implemented in the final version (kinda doubt it), but if those long, signature performances aren't subbed... oh boy.
I won't be buying this and I've emailed both Atlus and Nintendo saying so. It doesn't matter how good it might turn out, Nintendo won't be getting my money.
I'm tired of being treated like a child and being told that because I'm American I can't handle the game and it needs changed, because I'm not Japanese. It's demeaning.
It all adds up. The censorship, the changes, the potential cutting of content and changing of story beats. I'm sick of it. I didn't buy FE Fates and I didn't buy Bravely Second (though that was largely because of being extremely personally offended by the Native American to Cowboy change, that's basically like changing a Jewish character to a Nazi for me).
Nintendo of America's localization house is just out of control. So no more money from me until they stop treating me like a second class citizen. No more Collector's/Limited Editions, no more DLC, no more Amiibos for those series. I'm done being a whale for them.
I'm tired of being treated like a child and being told that because I'm American I can't handle the game and it needs changed, because I'm not Japanese. It's demeaning.
It all adds up. The censorship, the changes, the potential cutting of content and changing of story beats. I'm sick of it. I didn't buy FE Fates and I didn't buy Bravely Second (though that was largely because of being extremely personally offended by the Native American to Cowboy change, that's basically like changing a Jewish character to a Nazi for me).
Nintendo of America's localization house is just out of control. So no more money from me until they stop treating me like a second class citizen. No more Collector's/Limited Editions, no more DLC, no more Amiibos for those series. I'm done being a whale for them.
I don't have a problem with age changes and probably won't mind the costume changes either, but man this localization has been really disappointing so far. This started out as my most anticipated Wii U game this year. Actually, I think it still is because Zelda was delayed. I've been really disappointed in Fire Emblem and Intelligent Systems in general lately. This game was going to be the first good Fire Emblem in a while. But man, Nintendo. You're making this so hard. No English voice acting? No subtitles in battle? Come on, dude. I'm trying to build this game up into something I'll really enjoy. Give me something to work with here.
bobawesome
Member
Yeah, right. Considering the games they've released in the past you have to be sipping that Nintendo Kool-Aid to think Nintendo didn't force their hand on the matter.
cj_iwakura
Member
Yeah, right. Considering the games they've released in the past you have to be sipping that Nintendo Kool-Aid to think Nintendo didn't force their hand on the matter.
"Yeah... we're gonna have to cover that up."
orthodoxy1095
Banned
They probably shouldn't have greenlight a game about the Idol/Entertainment scene in Japan then.
Mr. Pointy
Member
I simply feel like we're receiving an inferior product compared to the Japanese game.
LordGorchnik
Member
Usually I don't agree with this line of thought but in this case I can definitely get on this wagon.
-Censored/changed costumes
-Censored/changed dungeons
-No DLC
-Potential changes to the stories in dungeons
-Actually paying the god damn voice-actors to come BACK in to re-dub X number of lines so we can safely say they are 18 instead of 17.
What the flying hell?
sure and that's valid
but it's not nintendo (or publishers, or whatever) saying "oh, all americans are dumber! they don't understand x and they actually think y!". It's closer to "well, we'll sell more if we do x and we'll maybe have less controversy if we do y, generally speaking amongst this market".
larger factors: industry bodies, retail partners and their ideas about what they want to stock on shelves, organised pressure groups etc.
but according to some every localisation change is a company personally telling everyone that you can't handle boobs. i dunno.
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changes to story and lack of dlc suck ass (though, personally, I never see the upset in changing ages in games). it is funny we've come around to begging publishers for dlc tho.
but it's not nintendo (or publishers, or whatever) saying "oh, all americans are dumber! they don't understand x and they actually think y!". It's closer to "well, we'll sell more if we do x and we'll maybe have less controversy if we do y, generally speaking amongst this market".
larger factors: industry bodies, retail partners and their ideas about what they want to stock on shelves, organised pressure groups etc.
but according to some every localisation change is a company personally telling everyone that you can't handle boobs. i dunno.
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changes to story and lack of dlc suck ass (though, personally, I never see the upset in changing ages in games). it is funny we've come around to begging publishers for dlc tho.
Doesn't Samus go contrary to that? At least half her appearances these days seem to be in her zero suit.
Yes, it does. "Self-censorship" is called "editing." It's a creative choice. You don't have to like it, but don't call it what it isn't. Censorship requires a governing body suppressing the content in question under a penalty. This is localization, period.
I don't think very many of them are going to want to stock an ultra-niche Wii U game that doesn't have a dub. The average person isn't going to want to touch this game with a ten-foot pole, with or without the added censorship
Ninty thought Platinum was being too conservative with their Bayo link costume.
So probably there's just confusion within Ninty, or Ninty US is erring on the side of being more conservative, or something.
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