Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I'm agreeing with you lol.
Western Localisation Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Features Costume And Age Changes
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I'm agreeing with you lol.
If you think regular Nintendo fans are going to buy this just because it is a Nintendo game you are going to be sorely disappointed.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
I like Megaten games & don't like otaku pandering. I'm all for them making the outfits more modest.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You are probably still going to hate the rest of the game lol. Idoru to the max.
But couldn't the subtitle of this game basically be "otaku pandering"?
But, why? I'm struggling to find any reason a company would ever drive localization costs up. Are you implying they are forcing changes so that they can say "see? It's too expensive and you aren't buying enough copies."
I don't know. That doesn't sound close to being realistic.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Lol, it got lost at the end of the last page but I was trying to figure out how I was Marge in your scenario.
But the Treehouse seem to have a degree of independence from NoA and even more so NoJ. So it wouldn't necessarily be "their" money.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Eh, I loved Persona 4 & Devil Survivor both of which have idols as party members so I think I'll be fine.
Crash Station
Member
The whole game is otaku pandering though.
Not that there's anything wrong with being in it only for the combat. Hell, I'd consider myself that in a general sense as I feel neutral about otaku pandering. But I imagine liking only one aspect of a game that has many isn't the norm or who the game is being advertised to.
But neither of those games are about the Japanese idol/entertainment industry. You see Persona 4 fans who scoff at #FE for this. The whole core of this game is what you seem to be talking about.
People really need to start reading the thread more. Too many just assume it's all about "mah panties/cleavage/etc"
Usually because they either don't read much into it or completely ignore any posts that talk about other stuff like the dungeon or the DLC.
Which speaking of, since we're unlikely to get the DLC, this was posted in another thread and someone posted it on page 2 of this thread:
It seems pretty tame and looks like some fun variety show stuff. So it sucks that we probably won't be getting it. :/
Usually because they either don't read much into it or completely ignore any posts that talk about other stuff like the dungeon or the DLC.
Which speaking of, since we're unlikely to get the DLC, this was posted in another thread and someone posted it on page 2 of this thread:
It seems pretty tame and looks like some fun variety show stuff. So it sucks that we probably won't be getting it. :/
Mr. Pointy
Member
Yeah. This is pretty much the same reason I haven't bought and won't get Project Zero 5.
I can live with certain edits, like the support conversation changes in Fates, but this annoys me more than I care for.
I'm a bit weary of some of the localisation choices in some Nintendo games, and sometimes I wish they'd stop collaborating with other companies for titles like these if this is the end result we receive in the West.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Okay, let me clarify myself. I'm not a fan of fan service in the typical anime sense of ogling half-undressed girls. I'm all for a turn-based higher (than portable) budget SMT-style RPG that focuses on Japanese popular culture.
cj_iwakura
Member
Are they going to edit the fake commercials, too?
Will those even be in the game?
Will those even be in the game?
I think I'm a little confused. Treehouse is owned by Nintendo no? So if they localize it is still Nintendo money. Atlus is localizing this particular game, but the funding of the localization is coming from Nintendo, no?
AppleSautts
Member
I don't particularly care about any of the changes discovered so far, but I would like to know the reasoning for them.
I would be disappointed in the missing hot springs DLC though.
I would be disappointed in the missing hot springs DLC though.
Wow, it's literally just people talking about the hot spring.
Valdfellgar
Banned
The way I see it is these changes are just warning signs, red flags of things to come. The DLC is the real causality here or at least the most significant one. If we don't manage to convince Nintendo that we don't need this kind of censorship in their products, especially their niche titles, were liable to get a significant causality down the line.
But I'm sure this will largely go ignored like most any warning signs and we'll have to suffer that causality down the line with whatever game it is.
disclaimer: I still have the game ordered, just as I did with Fates and Xenoblade. So please no inane accusations of me being some mega perv who just needs his underage cleavage fix. I have Senran Kagura for that
But I'm sure this will largely go ignored like most any warning signs and we'll have to suffer that causality down the line with whatever game it is.
disclaimer: I still have the game ordered, just as I did with Fates and Xenoblade. So please no inane accusations of me being some mega perv who just needs his underage cleavage fix. I have Senran Kagura for that
cj_iwakura
Member
I can only assume Nintendo is worried about some non-existent damage being inflicted to their image.
Valdfellgar
Banned
It's probably the same fear of outrage that hit DoA or Star Ocean. Sure some people argue they wouldn't have gotten flack for those instances, or that the games wouldn't have generated significant outrage, but I do think these Japanese game companies have come to see America's gaming market like that. It could just be Nintendo being Nintendo, but I personally think it's a little more than just that.
AppleSautts
Member
If that was the reasoning then I just wouldn't understand. Some of the armor in Xenoblade X were pretty risque so what about some of the outfits in #FE warrants a change?
The way I see it is these changes are just warning signs, red flags of things to come. The DLC is the real causality here or at least the most significant one. If we don't manage to convince Nintendo that we don't need this kind of censorship in their products, especially their niche titles, were liable to get a significant causality down the line.
But I'm sure this will largely go ignored like most any warning signs and we'll have to suffer that causality down the line with whatever game it is.
disclaimer: I still have the game ordered, just as I did with Fates and Xenoblade. So please no inane accusations of me being some mega perv who just needs his underage cleavage fix. I have Senran Kagura for that
I don't believe you. I'm sure you know exactly what kind of underwear is typical for 17 year olds you lewd creep.
SolicitorPirate
Member
My guess is targeted demographics. Nintendo might be relying more on the Western FE and MegaTen fanbases on emphasising those properties rather than the whole idol aesthetic. And at least in my own casual observations, the modern FE fanbase seems to have a much higher portion of women than typical video game fanbases.
The DLC also promotes equality fan service .
Swimsuits for everyone! Guys and girls.
*sighs* this does feel very weird though. When you consider who the game is aimed at. I think we would all love to know what people at Nintendo are thinking.
Is it something like (this is probably crap but I didn't intend it to be funny, just trying to get my head around what Nintendo are thinking with this game tbh)
---
Nintendo Exec 1: Listen, our name will be attached to this game over here. It will do really good numbers because people in the west love Nintendo. We MUST keep our image clean.
Nintendo Exec 2: Then what do you suggest?
Nintendo Exec 1: First, censor as much of the bikini and swimsuit images as you can. Is there any girls below 18? if so, AGE THEM UP.
Nintendo Exec 2: But if we do that sir, the fan base for this game won't be happy. They will complain. Remember what happened with Fire Emblem Fates?
Nintendo Exec 1: Who cares! It will pass and people will buy this game in droves. Look at Fire Emblem Fates. Look at how well that sold.
Nintendo Exec 2: But sir, this sold much less in Japan than Fates. I don't think the whole fan base of Fates will buy this game. It's not Fire Emblem enough.
Nintendo Exec 1: Trust me. Have I ever let you down before? People will buy this game just because of the name Nintendo and the name Fire Emblem. Just like with Fates. Japan are just not into consoles anymore so they don't count. Now relay this info to the Atlus and get those changes started.
Nintendo Exec 2: Yes Sir!
.Swimsuits for everyone! Guys and girls.
*sighs* this does feel very weird though. When you consider who the game is aimed at. I think we would all love to know what people at Nintendo are thinking.
Is it something like (this is probably crap but I didn't intend it to be funny, just trying to get my head around what Nintendo are thinking with this game tbh)
---
Nintendo Exec 1: Listen, our name will be attached to this game over here. It will do really good numbers because people in the west love Nintendo. We MUST keep our image clean.
Nintendo Exec 2: Then what do you suggest?
Nintendo Exec 1: First, censor as much of the bikini and swimsuit images as you can. Is there any girls below 18? if so, AGE THEM UP.
Nintendo Exec 2: But if we do that sir, the fan base for this game won't be happy. They will complain. Remember what happened with Fire Emblem Fates?
Nintendo Exec 1: Who cares! It will pass and people will buy this game in droves. Look at Fire Emblem Fates. Look at how well that sold.
Nintendo Exec 2: But sir, this sold much less in Japan than Fates. I don't think the whole fan base of Fates will buy this game. It's not Fire Emblem enough.
Nintendo Exec 1: Trust me. Have I ever let you down before? People will buy this game just because of the name Nintendo and the name Fire Emblem. Just like with Fates. Japan are just not into consoles anymore so they don't count. Now relay this info to the Atlus and get those changes started.
Nintendo Exec 2: Yes Sir!
Valdfellgar
Banned
Le gasp! I had been the found outz!!
The game is not English dubbed.
That's all that needs to be said regarding those hypothetical efforts.
Where is this idea coming from that anyone that likes Japanese pop culture is only into it for half naked women?
SolarMystic
Member
I'm always torn when I read stuff like this. On one hand I am 100% for better representation of women in videogames, on the other, I find it stupid that Atlus feels it should censor stuff for our "sensitive" Western minds.
Perhaps they should just create the games with better female representation from the start and people wouldn't get so mad about it anymore.
The fact they feel they should censor it at all goes to show they don't have confidence that their product represents women in a mature and responsible manner to begin with.
Perhaps they should just create the games with better female representation from the start and people wouldn't get so mad about it anymore.
The fact they feel they should censor it at all goes to show they don't have confidence that their product represents women in a mature and responsible manner to begin with.
I wonder if it's kind of an overreaction to some of the more extreme cases they needed to deal with, IE Lin's age/potential outfits. Cases like that I can understand, but it makes it feel like Nintendo got VERY paranoid over all of it and decided to just go over everything with a fine comb and ignoring the rest of the world around themselves. Especially in light of becoming more aware of the representation of women in games and how ridiculous a lot of Japanese stuff has been as of late, but it's starting to seem like stuff that would've largely gone over fine in the late 90s and most of the 2000s is suddenly an issue again.
The developers aren't the ones making the decision to censor it. The publisher (Nintendo) is
VexationStation
Member
Have you at all considered that perhaps there are FE/SMT fans who find explicit sexual objectification of women (and children at that) not only unnecessary for a video game, but also distasteful? Or that things like that could actually be limiting mass market appeal?
This is definitely true, however is it valid in #FE's case? "Mass market appeal," for example, shouldn't really factor into the conversation when we talk about this game.
cj_iwakura
Member
Sadly, I think the devs are doing this under the impression that they need to for the game to be a success here.
But this isn't even just the women, but Fates/#FE are removing content that represents both.
This is a game about the Japanese Entertainment/Idol Industry first and foremost. Think for a minute there.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
the devs definitely are having very little say, considering its atlus and they find dubs to be top priority for sales
Uhh, it's Atlus, they have published games that are worse than this one and they have sold far better than this game probably will.
I will guarantee you that Atlus isn't doing this on their own volition, and especially not through utilitarian motives that will benefit the publisher without being told to do so.
If Atlus had that kind of say, the game would have an English dub.
Considering the PR's tweet was deleted, it's most definitely something from the Nintendo side, not Atlus.
AppleSautts
Member
I guess that makes sense to me. I still hope NoA/Atlus comes out and gives us their reasoning.
Nintendo won't outside of the usual canned responses about regulations or other such things.
I'd say Atlus might eventually but they may not to avoid hurting their relationship with Nintendo. (given that the PR tweet was deleted like said above)
Also, doesn't this game provide commentary on the very industries that sexualize people? This is one of the few times where such a thing is contextually important.
AppleSautts
Member
Maybe, but Nintendo did come out and explain the changes to Bravely Second's sidequests which gives me hope that they might do the same for #FE
So Nintendo wants us to believe Atlus, a company that has kept swimsuit DLC in for clearly defined underage characters, has a game where a 15 year old grinds on a stripper pole, and localized Dungeon Travelers 2 with only 4 minor edits, were the ones who removed the very light suggestive material, and not Nintendo, who has a very recent history of doing this kind of stuff?
...ok.
Also, I wish those who don't agree with the changes weren't painted as "LOL ANIME NERD MAD ABOUT NO TITTY" by quite a few people in here. I didn't care in FE Fates or XBX and actually liked some of those changes, but this and Fatal Frame just really confuse me. These changes to these almost impossible to market niche games don't make sense and are very inconsistent. It doesn't hurt the overall game, but it just leaves me wondering why did they bother removing this kind of stuff at all.
...ok.
Also, I wish those who don't agree with the changes weren't painted as "LOL ANIME NERD MAD ABOUT NO TITTY" by quite a few people in here. I didn't care in FE Fates or XBX and actually liked some of those changes, but this and Fatal Frame just really confuse me. These changes to these almost impossible to market niche games don't make sense and are very inconsistent. It doesn't hurt the overall game, but it just leaves me wondering why did they bother removing this kind of stuff at all.
Crash Station
Member
This has nothing to do with representation of women in video games, unless you think titillation should be discouraged regardless of context.
It's also not Atlus doing the censoring. It's Nintendo that doesn't have confidence in that aspect of the product, not the developer.
They'll at least have to eventually come out and tell us whether or not we get the Hot Springs DLC prior to release... I think?
No, they don't. The writer of the article fucked up by putting their misinformed take on the situation, since we've had an official statement from Nintendo about any localization changes being on them:
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