DownGrader
Member
This thread in a nutshell:
Nintendo has been making the same games since the 80s
- Thread starter skypunch
- Start date
Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, Xenoblade, Pikmin, Fire Emblem, Splatoon...none of these franchises existed in the 1980s and in many respects stand out within their genres as the marquee example of game design within that genre. Further, with the exception of Smash Bros, none of these games would work as 'arcade' style games, as OP seemed to bundle Nintendo into. It's a fairly silly assessment, especially when the highest-selling games are often little more than iterative re-skins of one another (Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, etc).
thecouncil
Banned
I figured the "Nintendo makes games for everyone" referred more to the "E for everyone" rating of their games than anything else.
Open world contradicts Nintendo's game design philosophy of tight, fine-tuned, hand-crafted content.
Jawmuncher
Member
I would like to see some more variety from Nintendo through their partners. The fact we don't really get western games from them speaks volumes. Though it seems like too many people here thing that if Nintendo went and made a uncharted like game, that it would hurt how they make Mario titles or something. They have more than enough room to do plenty of stuff. Really looking forward to Retros new IP. Hope it's a big change up from the usual stuff. I made a thread awhile back dating we need more stuff like Devils third and fatal frame, etc from Nintendo. The generation that likes their games as is aren't going anywhere. At the same time they have to do more in picking up new fans, and using the same series or styles isn't exactly going to do that.
Orniletter
Banned
Selective quoting much ?
When was the last time Sony published an open world JRPG, got a third-party to make 2 character action games for them, developed an on rails shooter arcade game, invented a completely new playing online shooter ?
It's fine if you prefer Sony's games, but your weak attempt to act like they are on some kind of pedestal, while ignoring literally everything Nintendo does outside of...2D platformers I guess...is highly disingenuous.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Then explain Zelda and Xenoblade?
Haha...
Poimandres
Member
I would like a wider variety of games from Nintendo, but the same is true for Sony and Microsoft. The homogenisation of AAA games is depressing, but a steadfast insistence on "games for everybody" is equally stiffling.
The funny thing is Nintendo games were actually pretty different back in the 80s. I adore Zelda 2 for example, but there's no chance they would ever make a game like that again. I liked the game because it was obtuse and difficult, which Nintendo have actively moved away from as time progressed. The thing is I think the kind of games they are making these days reflect the vision Nintendo have always had but couldn't necessarily achieve in the early days. Some of the elements I enjoy from early Nintendo titles resulted from limitations, or at least it seems that way.
The funny thing is Nintendo games were actually pretty different back in the 80s. I adore Zelda 2 for example, but there's no chance they would ever make a game like that again. I liked the game because it was obtuse and difficult, which Nintendo have actively moved away from as time progressed. The thing is I think the kind of games they are making these days reflect the vision Nintendo have always had but couldn't necessarily achieve in the early days. Some of the elements I enjoy from early Nintendo titles resulted from limitations, or at least it seems that way.
Well yeah (other than your exaggerations at the beginning there), but the problem is that, as you read through the thread, you see that OP only counts it if studios with "Nintendo" in the name makes them. So, for example, if Retro made a new IP it wouldn't count for him. If Nintendo collaborated with another company for something exclusive that Nintendo owns and publishes, it doesn't count.
wat
No, wat
Xenoblade X and STEAM are difficult and nonforgiving. Have you tried these? Xenoblade X in particular feels like the original Zelda in many ways.
Orniletter
Banned
I don't believe you.
Nintendo makes games in almost every single genre and all of them have strong gameplay, or are at least well put together mechanically. If someone appreciates strong gamedesign and gameplay and champions it over everything else, they pretty much have to find something enjoyable there.
Nintendo doesn't have enough games with strong connecting lore/storylines.
It's why it's so easy to just drop Nintendo at any point because with their sequels you don't ever really have something calling you back.
Granted the plus side of this is that anyone can jump into their games at any point, however to the OP's point... What you end up with is the same games with fresh paint over and over.
But maybe this isn't for everyone... And Nintendo can just keep selling to their smaller base.
It's why it's so easy to just drop Nintendo at any point because with their sequels you don't ever really have something calling you back.
Granted the plus side of this is that anyone can jump into their games at any point, however to the OP's point... What you end up with is the same games with fresh paint over and over.
But maybe this isn't for everyone... And Nintendo can just keep selling to their smaller base.
Poimandres
Member
I am intending to pick up Xenoblade, and I'm not too keen on STEAM but loved Advance Wars so point well taken!
AppleSeason
Member
You know, one month ago I was ready to give up on games. Then I remembered that somebody had lent me a wii.
10 years without Nintendo in my life. Some hours later I said: "Thank god Nintendo is still doing the same".
10 years without Nintendo in my life. Some hours later I said: "Thank god Nintendo is still doing the same".
Spring-Loaded
Member
This thread in a nutshell:
This is just rehashed Super Mario Bros.
NHarmonic.
Member
Other M was shit, but that doesn't mean using more complex narratives is. They just failed there.
entremet
Member
This thread in a nutshell:
Funny how this works on many levels given the argument of the OP.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Because they're arguing it's the kind of game they don't want Nintendo making.
Fucking lol.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
There's thousands upon thousands of unique games to choose from. Nintendo didn't save you. You just finally took the blinders off, and got off the treadmill.
It's just great exploring, meeting new characters, discovering mysterious new places full of history, picking up new quests that really have you go down the rabbit hole, collecting loot & new weapons... Just existing in the big world full of lore & characters & really feeling like you're a part of something bigger. It's so immersive. Being able to just stop in your tracks and all you hear is the wind around you.
Ever heard about the Marvel formula? Connected lore and fresh paint over and over are not mutually exclusive.
Neoleo2143
Member
Yet Hearts of Stone from Witcher 3 was super whimsical and it was awesome for it. Guys, "Darker" narrative isn't intrinsically better. A developed conflict and set of characters and themes are better whether the genre is comedy or the tone is light hearted.
Also what does "making the same games since the 80s" mean? In terms of IPs, you're wrong because they've made many new IPs albeit not huge ones aside for Splatoon and Xenoblade. In terms of Mechanics, you're super wrong because that's pretty much what Nintendo does, make new ways of playing through controls and mechanics. Heck even in terms of narrative, they've come a hell of a way in Splatoon, whose soundtrack alone inspires a unique culture and progression in said culture in its own right. In terms of presentation, their games for the most part are great and maintain a quality standard that other games are held to.
Also what does "making the same games since the 80s" mean? In terms of IPs, you're wrong because they've made many new IPs albeit not huge ones aside for Splatoon and Xenoblade. In terms of Mechanics, you're super wrong because that's pretty much what Nintendo does, make new ways of playing through controls and mechanics. Heck even in terms of narrative, they've come a hell of a way in Splatoon, whose soundtrack alone inspires a unique culture and progression in said culture in its own right. In terms of presentation, their games for the most part are great and maintain a quality standard that other games are held to.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
Adam_Vania
Banned
The first Dungeons and Dragons was published in 1974. So all the celebrated WRPG mechanics (and the settings of post-apocalyptic/dark fantasy) had at least a good 10+ years before the first SMB even dropped. The argument could be made that modern RPGs are just rehashing the same stuff from the '70s.
StarStabbedMoon
Member
.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
Is this a joke
What Nintendo is doing with Zelda is none other than giving in to market trends, i.e. westernizing the franchise. I'm refering to the sheer scope of the world, not the fact that it might be non-linear. It's not logistically possible to fill the entire game world with substantial content, meaning there will be downplay as you travel from point A to B, similar to Wind Waker but made worse due to longer stretches of empty space. That's why they added the 2x wind sail item in WW HD, to mitigate downtime, but it's only a patch solution and doesn't solve the root of the problem.
As far as Xenoblade, Nintendo specifically brought in Monolith because they needed an open world game in their library, sadly this is what sells systems these days. JRPGs have never really had level design and puzzles in the same vein as a Nintendo game, only Golden Sun lives up to Nintendo quality standards of gameplay outside of combat. I love Xenoblade Chronicles, but outside of combat (which is fantastic) we are talking about pretty landscapes with no gameplay interaction of any kind. Those games are played for their immersive worlds, stories and characters, so it makes more sense for that type of game.
This isn't new though. Like, all these years discussing Zelda here and all the posters who are skeptical towards Zelda U, do you just dismiss them for fanboy drivel or something? It's weird that I even have to explain this when we've been through this 1000 times.
Lux R7
Member
But it is not that Nintendo needs dark narrative, Nintendo needs third party support.
They can continue with their games while other teams provide a huge variety of titles on the nintendo console.
This is my main problem with nintendo right now. For a person like me, who purchased every console since nes but now has changed his tastes, owning a wii u is pointless, and that's a shame.
They can continue with their games while other teams provide a huge variety of titles on the nintendo console.
This is my main problem with nintendo right now. For a person like me, who purchased every console since nes but now has changed his tastes, owning a wii u is pointless, and that's a shame.
DecoReturns
Member
See guys, this is why we need a faithful high quality remake of Fire Emblem 4.
Enough dark narrative to go for miles. Also enough controversy to follow.
But seriously tho, Nintendo has had deep narrative stories, but with text instead of Voice acting and you can't expect them to make those big budget games right now. It's wait to see how the NX does and see what we get for now. Maybe Zelda U is what your looking for.
OP. if you get the chance, play Mother 3 one day, it's really a special game
Enough dark narrative to go for miles. Also enough controversy to follow.
But seriously tho, Nintendo has had deep narrative stories, but with text instead of Voice acting and you can't expect them to make those big budget games right now. It's wait to see how the NX does and see what we get for now. Maybe Zelda U is what your looking for.
OP. if you get the chance, play Mother 3 one day, it's really a special game
pinkurocket
Member
I would love some more narrative-driven games from Nintendo. Especially the type Cing used to make. They'll always be remembered fondly. Hotel Dusk & Another Code/Trace Memory have such good stories and atmosphere, I can only imagine what they would've created with a bigger budget and perhaps some help from Nintendo to create a 'bigger' game. Or even without that, they would deliver adventure games rich in story that fit perfectly alongside the games Nintendo offers. Of course I don't know what happened with/within Cing that led to their disbandment, but it's forever a great loss. Though I read ex-developers from Cing are working on a new title, so that's exciting.
But anyway, it's not like OP's point made any sense.
But anyway, it's not like OP's point made any sense.
Zelda started of very western and got more japanese over the years. Its rooted in both cultures.
Citation needed for Monolith.
Neoleo2143
Member
Actually Zelda might not actually be all that big. That being said, they've made a compelling exploration system that solves the arrow pointer issue by using the skyward sword waypoints in a bigger world. Meaning you actually have to engage with the world to figure out where to go. This is intrinsically engaging with the world and solves the problem of open world games not leaving the player to explore on their own terms. This isn't down time, that is gameplay.
Could be a cool slogan for the NX.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
As someone that greatly enjoys Nintendo's software output, I think they're doing just fine. Not everyone needs to be making 60-hour open world games. Let Nintendo do what they do best and if you don't care for it, get your games elsewhere.
Are you just making this to troll Nintendo fans?
Having the power is one thing, getting the developer's attention is another. Getting the interest of a company like Bethesda won't be easy, especially when they've written off Nintendo for so long.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I sometimes feel Nintendo is like the only major developer who ever gets called out for doing what they're best at doing.
I think the actual problem is that Nintendo is still seen as competing for userbase and mindshare with general purpose game consoles aimed at enthusiast players. Since they lost most third party support thanks to the N64, the onus has been on them to supply nearly all major titles for their own console, leading to extremely lopsided comparisons between Nintendo's first party output and the entire rest of the game industry combined, on other consoles. Nintendo cannot be Ubisoft, Bethesda, Activision, EA, WB, Rockstar, and more at the same time and satisfy people who want games of the sort all those companies make in one place.
I think the actual problem is that Nintendo is still seen as competing for userbase and mindshare with general purpose game consoles aimed at enthusiast players. Since they lost most third party support thanks to the N64, the onus has been on them to supply nearly all major titles for their own console, leading to extremely lopsided comparisons between Nintendo's first party output and the entire rest of the game industry combined, on other consoles. Nintendo cannot be Ubisoft, Bethesda, Activision, EA, WB, Rockstar, and more at the same time and satisfy people who want games of the sort all those companies make in one place.
While some people might not want nintendo making a certain kind of game in any fashion, I don't think the majority of people who think nintendo's games are sufficiently diverse would be opposed to further diversification.
Yeah OP lost me here. Nintendo has certainly not been making the same games since the 80's but lately they've been adhering too much to the same templates across their franchises.
For instance, Nintendo seems bent on making everything Mario follow the NSMB template, making all the games feel too similar thematically even if the gameplay is different across them. That certainly does not mean they've been making the same games but some do feel too similar.
Instead of crafting a new Star Fox with a different generation in mind, Nintendo felt the need to try to make another Star Fox 64 and was hit for it in reviews.
Zelda drastically changes with each installment and is seeing the series biggest changes with NX/Wii U so that's the biggest counter example.
this. the older i get, the less i can invest in 80 hour long narrative rich games. i appreciate tge nintenfo design philosiphies
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I was never aware there was a problem with the player being unable to explore a giant open world on their own terms, just because an icon/waypoint was marked on a map?
Wait a sec...there is no problem! You've got your main quest, a bunch of side quests piling up, and the ability to go off and explore/discover.
You're also REALLY overselling the act of raising a sword to point you in the direction you need to go, as well as warp points. "Compelling exploration system". "Intrinsically engaging". It's just a more time consuming method to perform the same simple task of looking at a compass.
Neff
Member
It's definitely short on must-have adventure-style games, like the kind you can explore and lose yourself in, and it does give the Wii U a less substantial, disposable, time-filler feel. A Zelda or a Metroid would have really helped early on. It'll be interesting to see how Zelda shapes NX's launch.