I'm not saying Fallout 4 has a crazy good narrative, but there's just something really immersive about the game. I love the character dialogue, the talking, the exploring, searching for new loot & weapons. It really feels like you're inhabiting the world & a playing a part in all the different stories. Picking up new quests & not knowing where they'll lead you is awesome. It just keeps me absolutely glued.
Nintendo has been making the same games since the 80s
- Thread starter skypunch
- Start date
I'm not saying Fallout 4 has a crazy good narrative, but there's just something really immersive about the game. I love the character dialogue, the talking, the exploring, searching for new loot & weapons. It really feels like you're inhabiting the world & a playing a part in all the different stories. Picking up new quests & not knowing where they'll lead you is awesome. It just keeps me absolutely glued.
legacyzero
Banned
In a way, i kinda agree. I dont necessarily think that Nintendo games themselves are their problem. But rather, their unwillingness to bend or change with the industry.
I did a piece on this a few days ago, actually: https://youtu.be/o0rArX1H8yc
I basically highlighted what I think their biggest issue was, at least in the last few consoles, like problems with limited hardware, courting 3rd parties, or hell, even getting noticed by 3rd parties. (With exception of the Wii, which is a problem in itself, I feel)
I think if they just change how they evolve, it'd do them some good.
I did a piece on this a few days ago, actually: https://youtu.be/o0rArX1H8yc
I basically highlighted what I think their biggest issue was, at least in the last few consoles, like problems with limited hardware, courting 3rd parties, or hell, even getting noticed by 3rd parties. (With exception of the Wii, which is a problem in itself, I feel)
I think if they just change how they evolve, it'd do them some good.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
That's not really their forte, but Xenoblade Chronicles has a compelling narrative with deep gameplay, so there's that, but I'm sure you will voice your opinions on why it doesn't count.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
Do you honestly, seriously think that narrative is what makes people buy video game sequels?
If you looked through the thread you will find that I'm a Monolith Soft fan & love Xenoblade Chronicles.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
Okay cool, I didn't want to read 10 pages of posts on a Sunday morning.
It isn't just dudebro's that play games like The Witcher 3 & Fallout 4.
mikefrails
Banned
Post all the way disregarded.
Holy Order Sol
Member
We will soon get to the point where all games ever made will be considered the same because pixels are displayed on the screen and you control something.
Neoleo2143
Member
Yet how many of those games instead follow a waypoint system that the developers give you instead of one that the players set themselves? Giving the players the ability to set waypoints themselves is the solution to the follow the arrow structure in open world titles and strikes the balance between freedom and immersion.
I found the design relatively pointless in skyward sword because the level layouts were guiding in their own respects, however the use of a beacon instead of a UI marker is an elegant solution to the open world exploration problem.
In Witcher 3, I had to turn off lots of stuff to get an interesting pathfinding experience, I find it a shame that the developers did not trust their audience from the get go to engage with the lovingly crafted world they had especially since that pathfinding was in fact the best part of the gameplay in the witcher 3.
boclfon479
Member
gritty nintendo games...
no thank you, those goombas will give me nightmares lol
no thank you, those goombas will give me nightmares lol
Mr Waluigi
Banned
If anything, Nintendo's major problem (and it is a recent one) is that they bank much more on nostalgia than on making something new and refreshing.
Every main series Mario game after Galaxy has been more like a recollection of past games than actual, unique, ambitious projects.
Disregarding Skyward Sword, every recent Zelda has been a remake, a direct sequel to an early game, or a spin-off focusing on bringing back a bunch of different characters.
Even Metroid: Other M focused more on following Super Metroid's story than on standing out on its own.
Every main series Mario game after Galaxy has been more like a recollection of past games than actual, unique, ambitious projects.
Disregarding Skyward Sword, every recent Zelda has been a remake, a direct sequel to an early game, or a spin-off focusing on bringing back a bunch of different characters.
Even Metroid: Other M focused more on following Super Metroid's story than on standing out on its own.
No, but it is just adults, which the rest of the AAA industry targets almost exclusively. There is a niche for making games that everyone can play.
gritty nintendo games...
no thank you, those goombas will give me nightmares lol
Seriously though, I'd buy that. :lol
Rushersauce
Banned
Lol, op. Of all the games you could have put like an example, you put Fallout 4? Fucking lol
Everyone can play Fallout 4, too. And it's not just adults that play Fallout 4.
The difference is, everyone shouldn't be playing Fallout 4 though, the game content definitely isn't suitable for kids.
My point still stands.
Nintendo doesn't have to fundamentally change their design philosophy, but new IPs would be nice. Splatoon was a nice departure, but outside of that, they don't have much else that stirs excitement.
Nothing would get more excited if Nintendo came out and showcased an entirely new IP on the scale of new entry of Zelda.
Nothing would get more excited if Nintendo came out and showcased an entirely new IP on the scale of new entry of Zelda.
Not really.
The only part where Nintendo is stuck in the 80s is the part where they believe people will buy their console hardware just to play their games.
It's not happening anymore. Their games are fine. The method of playing them isn't. Gamers, even their most diehard fans, have moved on.
It's not happening anymore. Their games are fine. The method of playing them isn't. Gamers, even their most diehard fans, have moved on.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
You're reaching with your last paragraph. Really reaching. But as it stands, when I say Nintendo, I don't necessarily mean EAD. Nintendo don't need to have EAD make games like that, but they should certainly be employing studios, even setting up studios, that can fill in those software gaps in their library.
Even disregarding The Division, Destiny, why can't we have games like Uncharted, Tomb Raider, The last of us, with Nintendo's genius puzzle and gameplay design and a more western appealing coat of paint? It's not as if it's beyond their capabilities, but they just don't seem interested in trying.
Now I'm perfectly happy with Nintendo's Japan/Nintend fan centric output, but Nintendo needs more than people like me, you and the Nintendo enthusiasts on the internet to survive as a hardware manufacturer. And if 'bowing' to the pressure of market trends is how to do it, then so be it. It won't stop them from making Mario, Zelda et al.
As evidenced by the Wii U, that niche isn't enough to sustain healthy hardware sales. When will people begin to understand this? OP's post is the embodiment of the predicament Nintendo is in right now, and they don't seem to have any desire to address it.
It does.
Adam_Vania
Banned
im praying Nintendo stays Nintendo. in 30 years when i am buying games for my glassless-3D VR holodeck with my social security money, i hope there is a Mario game on the market. i want to step in and live inside of those crazy abstract psychedelic wonderlands they make.
we can count on there being dark fantasy games from now until the end of time but the twisted whimsy of Nintendo is something truly special and unique and i hope it lasts.
we can count on there being dark fantasy games from now until the end of time but the twisted whimsy of Nintendo is something truly special and unique and i hope it lasts.
Fallout 4 doesn't fall into a very family friendly zone though. While lots of kids do play FO4, The Witcher 3 and GTAV among other M rated games there is a market for T and E rated experiences.
FloweryMarston
Member
threads like this makes me question if neogaf is that much different from gamefaqs.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Speak for yourself. I return to Mario platformers time after time because I'm waiting to for the revelation that Peach is the mother of Bowser's kids.
This.
User 479360
Banned
Nintendo does tend to reuse the same ideas and just rely on the same series. There's no denying it.
They don't take enough risks, their consoles don't get enough support and they just aren't as interesting as the other two.
They don't take enough risks, their consoles don't get enough support and they just aren't as interesting as the other two.
I like the twisted whimsy of Mario, too. I'm not saying Nintendo should stop making Mario. All I suggested is Nintendo to diversify their offerings by creating a few more IPs that are atypical Nintendo games. Something with deeper narratives & more grounded visual style.
I didn't say this, I said that it's easier to drop Nintendo sequels because there is no lore/threaded narrative to call you back. Some people will buy/watch a movie, show, or game just to see what happens with the story... So it's definitely an aspect of what entices someone to purchase a sequel.
If you think that narrative isn't important then I wonder how far you venture from games featuring the character you named yourself after, who ironically enough has no lore attached to him.
Could not agree more!
NinjaCoachZ
Member
The premise in the OP between the lines isn't bad (e.g. I agree it wouldn't kill Nintendo to be more diverse in some areas - opening more western studios would be a start to make up for Retro tending to take their time on projects and mostly working with premade IPs), but this is seriously one of the worst thread titles I've seen in a long time.
Didn't they already do this with Xenoblade? They're massive games, even by the normal open world standards on both sides of the Pacific.
I agree with the OP. This probably even has less to do with incorporating more narrative elements in games and rather just overall being less predictable. The Wii U really put the spotlight on this as Nintendo was left to fill the hole that 3rd Parties created.
I'm not excited about the NX if we're going to get the same merry-go-round franchises of Mario, Zelda, Smash, Kart and DK. Even if the games themselves don't go to the levels of The Witcher or other games narrative wise, it's imperative that Nintendo keep their game library broad/diverse so that many of us don't feel like we're playing the same games from 3 decades ago.
I'm not excited about the NX if we're going to get the same merry-go-round franchises of Mario, Zelda, Smash, Kart and DK. Even if the games themselves don't go to the levels of The Witcher or other games narrative wise, it's imperative that Nintendo keep their game library broad/diverse so that many of us don't feel like we're playing the same games from 3 decades ago.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
No thanks, I don't want Nintendo to adapt or change, keep Nintendo pure.
Actually I'd be cool with Nintendo trying to appeal to a wider audience again. So that might include games that don't appeal to dudes with anime body pillows.
Actually I'd be cool with Nintendo trying to appeal to a wider audience again. So that might include games that don't appeal to dudes with anime body pillows.
This is the second time I've seen reductio ad absurdum painted in such a negative light here recently. It's not meant to be a hack job (of course, sometimes it is
) but rather a revelation of the strange results some propositions held together produce, and therefore a reason to rethink adherence to some of the propositions or to bite the bullet. ...
As to the OP, I'd say Nintendo has "deep" gameplay, at least at times. I don't think being more narratively adult goes hand in hand with that by necessity. I also think Nintendo is not, generally, that arcade-y. They are rather very Nintendo-y and very much wedded to their own school of console game design. Sega, Capcom, Namco...these are the companies that brought the arcade to your home.
Idk. Personally I very much enjoy what Nintendo is today, but yes they are not in step with a view of gaming where narrative focus is the cutting edge.
I'm all for more narrative driven games, but I also don't think that all games need to be narrative driven, especially if they never were in the past. It always feels forced and you run the risk of going so far out of line with how people imagined a character, Other M being the best example of this.
Honestly, if you look at Nintendo's output on the Wii U, the lack of focus on larger, narrative driven games is most likely due to the lack of resources and knowledge of how to design for HD and this level of graphical fidelity. Their games are "smaller" because otherwise they would take forever to make, which is funny because their games are already taking longer to make.
Honestly, if you look at Nintendo's output on the Wii U, the lack of focus on larger, narrative driven games is most likely due to the lack of resources and knowledge of how to design for HD and this level of graphical fidelity. Their games are "smaller" because otherwise they would take forever to make, which is funny because their games are already taking longer to make.
Neoleo2143
Member
Yet because they lost that third party support and expect to sell a console to the general user base, those criticisms as impossible as they are in a realistic sense, are justified by that reason alone.
It isn't unreasonable to expect more new IP output from Nintendo going forward with the recent success of Splatoon and the rumor of the new Retro Studio IP.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
The only genre I can think of in which people would buy a sequel to know the story is RPGs, and even then several of the most successful RPG franchises have little to no connection between each entry.
People buy the next entry in the franchise because the first one was fun, first of all. Video game writing is far from fabulous so story isn't a big deal for most people as far as shooters, action-adventure games, etc. go.
Narrative, outside of RPGs, only has one point, and that is to give a goal to the player as well as more immersion, all for the sake of fun. Video games are not movies.