It's explicitly because he is a fruit vendor that I am suspicious of you. No one has claimed a role that impacts the lynch from town side. So I don't see an explanation for why you were no lynched Day 2. A 1 shot unlynchable role seems likely scum to me.
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Gafia 2.5: The Bachelor Party |Mafia OT| One Last Override
- Thread starter Sorian
- Start date
It's explicitly because he is a fruit vendor that I am suspicious of you. No one has claimed a role that impacts the lynch from town side. So I don't see an explanation for why you were no lynched Day 2. A 1 shot unlynchable role seems likely scum to me.
It's explicitly because he is a fruit vendor that I am suspicious of you. No one has claimed a role that impacts the lynch from town side. So I don't see an explanation for why you were no lynched Day 2. A 1 shot unlynchable role seems likely scum to me.
I'm... not sure I follow your logic there. Why would I bus my own teammate after explicitly drawing attention to myself?
flatearthpandas
Member
Do we still get a lynch if there's a day shot?
Do we still get a lynch if there's a day shot?
That's how it has worked in past days yes. So essentially we are sitting on 3 shots to hit scum before the next night kill. I think it would be foolish to sit on any of them.
Oh also, assuming you have a shot left, my proposal for the nights actions were to have you watch me. Either scum role blocks me and reveals to you or they have to let me check another person's role.
A switcher has to guess at who I'm looking at to keep me from getting an accurate result.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
Do we still get a lynch if there's a day shot?
i think so
nothing about my role indicates it would effect the standard day lynch. im sure it only counts as its own isolated kill.
I'm less prone to believe Stanley's claim than I am Kawl's.
So will RF confirm that his role is as Kawl states it?
Assuming its true:
claimed town watcher:
5. flatearthpandas [m]
claimed ordinary:
4. Flame_AC [m] - Role Cop says ordinary
10. Sophia [f]
claimed role cop
7. Kawl_USC [m]
claimed 1-shot day vig
12. StanleyPalmtree [m]
no claim:
6. Gorlak [m] - Role Cop says Ordinary
9. Royal_Flush [m] - Role Cop says Fruit Vendor
Two people here are lying.
So will RF confirm that his role is as Kawl states it?
Assuming its true:
claimed town watcher:
5. flatearthpandas [m]
claimed ordinary:
4. Flame_AC [m] - Role Cop says ordinary
10. Sophia [f]
claimed role cop
7. Kawl_USC [m]
claimed 1-shot day vig
12. StanleyPalmtree [m]
no claim:
6. Gorlak [m] - Role Cop says Ordinary
9. Royal_Flush [m] - Role Cop says Fruit Vendor
Two people here are lying.
flatearthpandas
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have to kill Kawl if we use the day shot.
D4: 5-2 4m
Day shot
D4: 4-2 4m
Lynch
D5: 3-2 3m scum turbos kawl for last lynch
So we only have the same amount, they're just faster. Some faction needs to kill Kawl in the next 3 kills. If we save day shot for d5 we get one night of results. If we don't use it, we can get two.
D4: 5-2 4m
Day shot
D4: 4-2 4m
Lynch
D5: 3-2 3m scum turbos kawl for last lynch
So we only have the same amount, they're just faster. Some faction needs to kill Kawl in the next 3 kills. If we save day shot for d5 we get one night of results. If we don't use it, we can get two.
We should use day kill after the first lynch. We could coordinate it at that point to have the person we want to lynch be one vote away and stanley can make that vote immediately after giving his command.
Gives us the full 3 shots without letting scum lynch me or NK.
Stanley, is your command a public one?
Gives us the full 3 shots without letting scum lynch me or NK.
Stanley, is your command a public one?
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
I'm less prone to believe Stanley's claim than I am Kawl's.
So will RF confirm that his role is as Kawl states it?
Assuming its true:
claimed town watcher:
5. flatearthpandas [m]
claimed ordinary:
4. Flame_AC [m] - Role Cop says ordinary
10. Sophia [f]
claimed role cop
7. Kawl_USC [m]
claimed 1-shot day vig
12. StanleyPalmtree [m]
no claim:
6. Gorlak [m] - Role Cop says Ordinary
9. Royal_Flush [m] - Role Cop says Fruit Vendor
Two people here are lying.
well we have a much easier way to confirm my role, you know, if you want to risk it.
I do believe FEP is town. On the assumption that scum would not have both a watcher and a tracker.
He correctly knew that I visited Gorlak.
He correctly knew that I visited Gorlak.
I spent a lot of time looking at Gorlak last night but didn't come up with much. Kind of weird exchange with kawl. I feel okay about Gorlak as well despite him almost actually tying us up.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
We should use day kill after the first lynch. We could coordinate it at that point to have the person we want to lynch be one vote away and stanley can make that vote immediately after giving his command.
Gives us the full 3 shots without letting scum lynch me or NK.
Stanley, is your command a public one?
no, pm-ing a mod
but it does instantly remove them from the game, and remove their vote, just in case that sweetens the deal for everyone.
I do believe FEP is town. On the assumption that scum would not have both a watcher and a tracker.
He correctly knew that I visited Gorlak.
If you believe that FEP is town, and Royal confirms his role and there are no contradictions, then that just leaves myself, Gorlak, and Flame right? Stanley can confirm his role by agreeing to shoot a specific target, and then you have two lynches and only two targets left.
I'm less prone to believe Stanley's claim than I am Kawl's.
So will RF confirm that his role is as Kawl states it?
Assuming its true:
claimed town watcher:
5. flatearthpandas [m]
claimed ordinary:
4. Flame_AC [m] - Role Cop says ordinary
10. Sophia [f]
claimed role cop
7. Kawl_USC [m]
claimed 1-shot day vig
12. StanleyPalmtree [m]
no claim:
6. Gorlak [m] - Role Cop says Ordinary
9. Royal_Flush [m] - Role Cop says Fruit Vendor
Two people here are lying.
I believe that the 2 scum are in this grouping, given Stanley proves his vig ability tomorrow.
If you believe that FEP is town, and Royal confirms his role and there are no contradictions, then that just leaves myself, Gorlak, and Flame right? Stanley can confirm his role by agreeing to shoot a specific target, and then you have two lynches and only two targets left.
See my post right after you. Yes I agree. I believe that if Royal will come back and confirm that he is the fruit vendor then we are in good shape as town.
no, pm-ing a mod
but it does instantly remove them from the game, and remove their vote, just in case that sweetens the deal for everyone.
Ah okay. Could you share what the command is that you send?
flatearthpandas
Member
I'm less prone to believe Stanley's claim than I am Kawl's.
So will RF confirm that his role is as Kawl states it?
Assuming its true:
claimed town watcher:
5. flatearthpandas [m]
claimed ordinary:
4. Flame_AC [m] - Role Cop says ordinary
10. Sophia [f]
claimed role cop
7. Kawl_USC [m]
claimed 1-shot day vig
12. StanleyPalmtree [m]
no claim:
6. Gorlak [m] - Role Cop says Ordinary
9. Royal_Flush [m] - Role Cop says Fruit Vendor
Two people here are lying.
Kawl has confirmed my role. I posted my breadcrumb nice and early so the only doubt you should have about me is alignment. Scum tracker was already gone as well so i couldn't have faked the result unless kawl and i are the scum team.
Kawl can be confirmed by royal. We'll see what happens there.
We can test stanley.
Sophia seems unlikely if royal is indeed a fruit vendor i.e. his items do nothing. More likely she can buck a lynch or something. Passive override to next candidate? Let's not forget the game's subtitle.
As kawl said earlier, there can be an ordinary scum. So even confirmed ordinary can still be a scumlord.
flatearthpandas
Member
I believe that the 2 scum are in this grouping, given Stanley proves his vig ability tomorrow.
Inclined to agree. Sophia and Gorlak are my top 2 right now but need to think some more on it. I like the idea of stanley shooting then hammering at first as well, but also need to think more on it.
I'm... not sure I follow your logic there. Why would I bus my own teammate after explicitly drawing attention to myself?
I've made pretty clear that I think scum is in a bus heavy period of our meta.
You've claimed as ordinary and I don't see a town PR that has claimed that affects the lynch. Scum wouldn't use a targeted ability on a towns person to bump the lynch onto a scumperson (that would be some god tier busing though I swear). Simplest explanation to me is that you are not being truthful about being ordinary and are in fact a 1 lynch proof scum.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
See my post right after you. Yes I agree. I believe that if Royal will come back and confirm that he is the fruit vendor then we are in good shape as town.
Ah okay. Could you share what the command is that you send?
SHOOT: <playername>
I've made pretty clear that I think scum is in a bus heavy period of our meta.
You've claimed as ordinary and I don't see a town PR that has claimed that affects the lynch. Scum wouldn't use a targeted ability on a towns person to bump the lynch onto a scumperson (that would be some god tier busing though I swear). Simplest explanation to me is that you are not being truthful about being ordinary and are in fact a 1 lynch proof scum.
Why would I have wasted a 1 lynch proof on that day tho? Remember I was already suspecting Zipped for most of Day 2 when I started to look at him. Surely there was an easier way to bus him without permanently drawing attention to myself AND wasting a power role, right?
Not to mention that day end involved Flame, Sophia, and Zipped in a 3 way near tie. I mean there's no way we had all 3 scum there in the race, is there?
In that situation, throwing shade at Zipped with her vote and playing up as a good townie "when you see my flip, etc etc" would be a good course of action.
Also, actually if we lynch and day kill tomorrow an additional vote thrown down isn't even necessary. If there are 3 votes already placed on our suspicious person, they will be auto hammered when the player count drops form 6 to 5.
Can Sorian confirm that?
In that situation, throwing shade at Zipped with her vote and playing up as a good townie "when you see my flip, etc etc" would be a good course of action.
Also, actually if we lynch and day kill tomorrow an additional vote thrown down isn't even necessary. If there are 3 votes already placed on our suspicious person, they will be auto hammered when the player count drops form 6 to 5.
Can Sorian confirm that?
Why would I have wasted a 1 lynch proof on that day tho? Remember I was already suspecting Zipped for most of Day 2 when I started to look at him. Surely there was an easier way to bus him without permanently drawing attention to myself AND wasting a power role, right?
I'm assuming its a passive ability. Like a 1 shot BP. You don't get to choose when it's used up.
I'm assuming its a passive ability. Like a 1 shot BP. You don't get to choose when it's used up.
Yeah, but I can chose how I play. Is it really in my best interest to draw attention to myself and potentially waste it on Day 2...?
Yeah, but I can chose how I play. Is it really in my best interest to draw attention to myself and potentially waste it on Day 2...?
Is it ever in scum's best interest to draw attention to themselves?
Trying to not draw attention in mafia often draws attention on its own.
You can't choose how others react to how you play. It often is not how you would like or think.
If some ability were to occur that could somehow change the majority needed for a lynch then the day would end immediately if there was a vote option that was currently sitting at or above the new majority.
Say there were 2 votes on me, 3 on someone else. Its tomorrow so someone has already been lynched today. A day kill occurs by some mechanism.
What's our protocol there? Go by whether my 2nd vote came on first or the other persons 3rd vote did?
Is it ever in scum's best interest to draw attention to themselves?
Trying to not draw attention in mafia often draws attention on its own.
You can't choose how others react to how you play. It often is not how you would like or think.
Exactly. So if I was scum, and Royal was town and is indeed the fruit vendor, why would even announce the banana, let alone the other actions?
flatearthpandas
Member
Yeah, but I can chose how I play. Is it really in my best interest to draw attention to myself and potentially waste it on Day 2...?
Unless you were cabot, it is in no team's best interest to be where you were...
flatearthpandas
Member
Say there were 2 votes on me, 3 on someone else. Its tomorrow so someone has already been lynched today. A day kill occurs by some mechanism.
What's our protocol there? Go by whether my 2nd vote came on first or the other persons 3rd vote did?
Unless Stanley shoots whoever is voting you
Exactly. So if I was scum, and Royal was town and is indeed the fruit vendor, why would even announce the banana, let alone the other actions?
Because confusion/chaos do favor scum. And it wasn't because of the banana that you were on the chopping block. That was because of the poor answers you gave to some pressing/questioning.
Not to mention not bringing it up when you didn't know what it did when Royal Eventually revealed would be more suspicious.
Unless Stanley shoots whoever is voting you
Yea it was just a hypothetical I was curious about. That would pretty much be scum playing their hand imo so it would be a dumb thing to do. Although, in the case we are talking about we have to be careful, scum could pull a fast one if we are lining things up carefully and try to sneak to a majority before the vig shot goes off, letting them sneak in a NK.
flatearthpandas
Member
Yea it was just a hypothetical I was curious about. That would pretty much be scum playing their hand imo so it would be a dumb thing to do. Although, in the case we are talking about we have to be careful, scum could pull a fast one if we are lining things up carefully and try to sneak to a majority before the vig shot goes off, letting them sneak in a NK.
As long as Stanley doesn't project when he will take the shot it shouldn't be a problem.
Sophia, I don't see a good town reason not to claim receiving an item. As scum receiving one, you would know there was a town who knew you received one and could call you out for keeping quiet
For the sake of throwing it out there, from scum to town.
10. Sophia [f] / 12. StanleyPalmtree [m]
9. Royal_Flush [m]
7. Kawl_USC [m]
6. Gorlak [m]
5. flatearthpandas [m]
4. Flame_AC [m]
I hold the view that if someone receives an item, it is in town's best interest to speak on it immediately to try and ascertain it's abilities unless explicitly given to the receiver.
10. Sophia [f] / 12. StanleyPalmtree [m]
9. Royal_Flush [m]
7. Kawl_USC [m]
6. Gorlak [m]
5. flatearthpandas [m]
4. Flame_AC [m]
I hold the view that if someone receives an item, it is in town's best interest to speak on it immediately to try and ascertain it's abilities unless explicitly given to the receiver.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
i cant help but chuckle at your self inclusion in that list.
anyway, you mentioned earlier that you dont quite buy my claim, and your clearly doubling down on that.
so i have a question for you.
what possible reason could i have for making this fake claim?
anyway, you mentioned earlier that you dont quite buy my claim, and your clearly doubling down on that.
so i have a question for you.
what possible reason could i have for making this fake claim?
alright, i'm going to bed for the night. Just a reminder I'll be busy volunteering for most of tomorrow although I should be able to get away a little before days end hopefully.
I'm fine with lynching any of the 3 that I think scum are in outlined above (Sophia, Flame, Gorlak, suspicious of them in that order).
If you guys don't decide to lynch me, we can discuss the use of the day kill and what not tomorrow. if you do decide to lynch me will shit you arent' off to a great start, but I still think using hte day kill is to your advantage at that point.
FEP I hope that we can join our investigative powers together during the night phase to ensure either catching scum or me having an accurate result on someone.
I feel better now than I did this morning about our chances. We can do this town.
I'm fine with lynching any of the 3 that I think scum are in outlined above (Sophia, Flame, Gorlak, suspicious of them in that order).
If you guys don't decide to lynch me, we can discuss the use of the day kill and what not tomorrow. if you do decide to lynch me will shit you arent' off to a great start, but I still think using hte day kill is to your advantage at that point.
FEP I hope that we can join our investigative powers together during the night phase to ensure either catching scum or me having an accurate result on someone.
I feel better now than I did this morning about our chances. We can do this town.
flatearthpandas
Member
So why don't we have Stanley kill Sophia right now? I think that'd be the best use of our day today. We'd get information on the flip of Sophia and get confirmation of Stanley's role.
What do y'all think?
I like Stanley shooting tomorrow more. As discussed, we can set up the votes to guarantee a town lynch to end the day as new majority is reached after the shot. End the game on town's terms rather than scum hanging up on kawl.
But still want to hear from Gorlak and Flush about kawl's claim and have some other points to bring up after that.
I'm Roytheone. Ordinary Town. You can find my stance on not saying what role you have as vanilla throughout the game. Starting Day 1 with my talk to Droplet.
We have to be careful. If Stanley targets town today and we mislynch, than we have a majority of 3 tomorrow, right? Given Kawl's hated modificator that could lose us the game.
I find it hard to wrap my head around scum fakeclaims. Since Zipped died D2, scum could have not seen Kawl visiting me N2 and use this info. FEP is town in my eyes with this confirmation of Kawl.
And I certainly don't believe Kawl as scum would come up with such a claim. Seems very risky, too risky? Is there any possibility scum could have guessed the roles? Tracking Flush N1? Assuming Flame and me are ordinary? Than Kawl would need another role to visit me. The roleblocker he talked about?
That leaves Sophia, Flame and me. I feel confident that there is only one scum among these ordinary claims. The other scum has to be somebody else. Otherwise scum would only have a 2-shot tracker against an x-shot-watcher, hated role cop, virgin, fruit vendor and a 1-shot vigilante. As Kawl said another investigative role for scum besides a tracker doesn't make much sense.
We have to be careful. If Stanley targets town today and we mislynch, than we have a majority of 3 tomorrow, right? Given Kawl's hated modificator that could lose us the game.
I find it hard to wrap my head around scum fakeclaims. Since Zipped died D2, scum could have not seen Kawl visiting me N2 and use this info. FEP is town in my eyes with this confirmation of Kawl.
And I certainly don't believe Kawl as scum would come up with such a claim. Seems very risky, too risky? Is there any possibility scum could have guessed the roles? Tracking Flush N1? Assuming Flame and me are ordinary? Than Kawl would need another role to visit me. The roleblocker he talked about?
That leaves Sophia, Flame and me. I feel confident that there is only one scum among these ordinary claims. The other scum has to be somebody else. Otherwise scum would only have a 2-shot tracker against an x-shot-watcher, hated role cop, virgin, fruit vendor and a 1-shot vigilante. As Kawl said another investigative role for scum besides a tracker doesn't make much sense.
Flame suggesting to use Stanley's power immediatly doesn't sit right with me. We only have 12 hours left, would wait for Stanley to use his power and had to decide on our lynch target today afterwards. I will not be available for the last 5.5 hours of the day because of work. And the most important as was said before:
Or we just lose the game at day start tomorrow, right? Two misses and Kawl being town would be game over.But if we did it today, we'd have more information to make an educated decision on the next day.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
yeah, i wont be using my kill today, so dont waste your time trying to argue for it.
5-2, miss - D4
4-2, vig (miss) - D5
3-2, lynch - D5
3-1, nk N5
2-1 on D6
So if we don't lynch Kawl and don't hit both scum within the next three tries, we lost.
Lynching Kawl gives us the last lynch with the least possible people and simplifies tomorrows coordination between shot and lynch. But we would also face another night.
4-2, vig (miss) - D5
3-2, lynch - D5
3-1, nk N5
2-1 on D6
So if we don't lynch Kawl and don't hit both scum within the next three tries, we lost.
Lynching Kawl gives us the last lynch with the least possible people and simplifies tomorrows coordination between shot and lynch. But we would also face another night.
flatearthpandas
Member
If Stanley is scum, we will be pretty stuck on a path of trusting kawl. Even when/if royal confirms him, he could still be scum. But i guess I'm willing to take the risk for three potential shots. I think we will hit at least one scum with those shots if we aim at Flame, Sophia, and Gorlak.
But gorlak makes a good point. We need to hit both. Killing kawl early doesn't buy us any extra chances though. And if we hit at least that one scum and kawl happens to be the other... obviously the game won't end and will know how to proceed.
But gorlak makes a good point. We need to hit both. Killing kawl early doesn't buy us any extra chances though. And if we hit at least that one scum and kawl happens to be the other... obviously the game won't end and will know how to proceed.
If Stanley is scum, we will be pretty stuck on a path of trusting kawl. Even when/if royal confirms him, he could still be scum. But i guess I'm willing to take the risk for three potential shots. I think we will hit at least one scum with those shots if we aim at Flame, Sophia, and Gorlak.
But gorlak makes a good point. We need to hit both. Killing kawl early doesn't buy us any extra chances though. And if we hit at least that one scum and kawl happens to be the other... obviously the game won't end and will know how to proceed.
No, lynching Kawl today exactly only allows us to be a 100% sure about his alignment. Afterwards we still have exactly three shots at hitting scum as shown above (two lynches and the claimed vig-shot)
We eliminate the (whatever small) doubt on Kawl and continue to have the same number of tries, with the disadvantage of one more nightkill. We "trade" the lynch today for the lynch on D6.
---
We can hit Stanley tomorrow if he kills someone we didn't decide on. At that point we either already need to have lynched the other scum or Kawl needs to be dead so the game can continue.
Thinking about it, the Stanley plan is flawed. Imagine him as scum, killing town and afterwards two scum coordinate the lynch on Kawl. Game over.
I don't want to put the game in Stanley's hands. We need to lynch Kawl. Only in this case we can react to Stanley's behaviour tomorrow.
flatearthpandas
Member
I don't see how lynching kawl gives us extra shots. It will make tomorrow safer in case Stanley is a scum. But then, if stanley is scum, i would be very surpassed if he actually has a day shot. So his ability to scree us is actually quite limited in my mind. But today's lynch still depends on how we read kawl. I need to hear from royal before i make my call there.
Because you believe scum wouldn't have a day shot, we should take the risk?
Can somebody else weigh in please? Am I completely wrong here? My math shows me that we can lynch Kawl today, get confirmation on him, eliminate his drawback and will end up in D6 lylo.
If we don't lynch Kawl we definitely end the game on D5 with Stanley deciding everything (the vig shot and final vote to lynch).
Can somebody else weigh in please? Am I completely wrong here? My math shows me that we can lynch Kawl today, get confirmation on him, eliminate his drawback and will end up in D6 lylo.
If we don't lynch Kawl we definitely end the game on D5 with Stanley deciding everything (the vig shot and final vote to lynch).
flatearthpandas
Member
If Stanley was scum with a day shot, why the hell would he claim it, especially after the role cop revealed his results? He could have just kept quiet and ended the game tomorrow.
Lynching kawl today only gets us to d6 if we hit scum or don't use the day shot.
Lynching kawl today only gets us to d6 if we hit scum or don't use the day shot.