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[shark sandwich]

They should just start making small form factor PCs and "XBOX CERTIFIED" amd graphic cards.

Yeah because that worked so well for Steambox.

It sounds like Xbox is evolving into a "platform" rather than a console. The Xbox console will be ONE of the ways you can play Xbox games. You will also be able to play Xbox games and content on PC.

Trying to build the "one device to rule them all" to please both PC and console gamers is just an exercise in futility.

 

[mrklaw]

Well to be fair they've fixed most other issues they had at launch under Phil. Kinect, more expensive box, terrible messaging (ok it's still pretty terrible but a different kind of terrible), no DRM, it's a box for gamers, focusing lots of new IP's, etc.

The only thing they haven't fixed since launch was Power and the fact most people have a PS4 now so they just get their friends to get one aswell. Well that and the whole Europe issue but they'll never fix that, at least they're trying a little (emphasis on little) more with big focus at gamescom now though.

oh sure, I think they've improved things massively - a lot of things they fixed before launch. But that image still hangs over them I think, and it'll take a while for it to be forgotten. If MS are in this for the long run and willing to back their box then that will hopefully pay dividends. But they do have a history of suddenly changing direction - both with Xbox (eg dropping the OG Xbox so soon), but also at a general MS organisational level

 

[DuckSlayer]

Whats with quoting 4 paragraph essays ? Thats not good forum technique unless your trying to flood the thread.

So what do you think will happen if xbox scorpio plays ALL windows games?

Game over for sony?

 

[leeh]

Whats with quoting 4 paragraph essays ? Thats not good forum technique unless your trying to flood the thread.

So what do you think will happen if xbox scorpio plays ALL windows games?

Game over for sony?

There's no chance any Xbox will run anything Win32. All UWP, yes.

 

[Dinky Dino]

Yeah because that worked so well for Steambox.

It sounds like Xbox is evolving into a "platform" rather than a console. The Xbox console will be ONE of the ways you can play Xbox games. You will also be able to play Xbox games and content on PC.

Trying to build the "one device to rule them all" to please both PC and console gamers is just an exercise in futility.

The steambox wasn't heavily advertised, marketed or supported by the most part. Valve made steamos as a precaution in case they started to lock down windows 10. It seems MS isn't going that far and that valve does not care anymore as they have not commented on it. Besides it used Linux which made it miss out on tons of games that are popular among the masses like gta v. Windows has access to a ton of things.

The other part I agree with. A windows 10 box subsidized and marketed by MS would do very well. However they would never do this as that system would have an open market that would allow users to use steam and they would be losing money in that scenario. Making their own box that has a closed ecosystem where they take a cut of every sale and charge for playing p2p games online is much more profitable which is why sony does it as well. More so if you included the money they make from accessories/peripherals and the like.

 

[Primethius]

Whats with quoting 4 paragraph essays ? Thats not good forum technique unless your trying to flood the thread.

So what do you think will happen if xbox scorpio plays ALL windows games?

Game over for sony?

That's always been an idea that sounds great but isn't remotely feasible in the way MS would like to push a console to the mass market.

 

[Asmodai48]

Christ lol. Most of you can barely run FarmVille on your computers let alone have the specs to run Microsofts games . This excuse has to stop its sad .

Notsureifserious.jpg

 

[therealbigrich]

This thread leads me to believe MS best bet is to cut the gen short and pretty much cut ties with the X1. Have a X1 Slim this year and next year start of a new gen and cut ties with the X1.

 

[Dinky Dino]

There's no chance any Xbox will run anything Win32. All UWP, yes.

MS specifically made a converter for this

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bridges/desktop

If some devs feel UWP is worthwhile to put their stuff on, they will likely do it. I guess it remains to be seen how well it actually works and what MS allows on their new xbox.

 

[Durante]

Whats with quoting 4 paragraph essays ? Thats not good forum technique unless your trying to flood the thread.

So what do you think will happen if xbox scorpio plays ALL windows games?

Game over for sony?

That's not happening.

99.9% of all windows games aren't UWP (thank god). Microsoft isn't going to let you run something on their console which isn't forced to go through their ecosystem.

 

[MilkyJoe]

This thread leads me to believe MS best bet is to cut the gen short and pretty much cut ties with the X1. Have a X1 Slim this year and next year start of a new gen and cut ties with the X1.

When are people going to get the memo that traditional generations are over. Is continuous until the end of time now.


Or until they figure out streaming only, whichever comes first.

PS that last page was painful to read. Jeepers...

 

[oldergamer]

When are people going to get the memo that traditional generations are over. Is continuous until the end of time now.


Or until they figure out streaming only, whichever comes first.

PS that last page was painful to read. Jeepers...

your eyes were bleeding too? Phew!! I thought it was ebola...

 

[Primethius]

This thread leads me to believe MS best bet is to cut the gen short and pretty much cut ties with the X1. Have a X1 Slim this year and next year start of a new gen and cut ties with the X1.

Not necessarily. I do think however they have a lot of problems. Personally, I think the best course of action is to ride the generation out for another 2-3 years at least.

Problem is, with these rumored Scorpio specs, it's both great for MS to have such powerful console but also brings with it a host of problems. Things like what user base they target, what happens with first party titles (cause just imagine the difference) and things of that nature.

In a lot of ways, this jump seems to big for an iterative one but it's too early for a new gen.

 

[Aceofspades]

This thread leads me to believe MS best bet is to cut the gen short and pretty much cut ties with the X1. Have a X1 Slim this year and next year start of a new gen and cut ties with the X1.

If this is the case , they need to go big and 30% stronger than Neo is not big enough if you are gonna release later .

 

[jeffc919]

Yeah because that worked so well for Steambox.

It sounds like Xbox is evolving into a "platform" rather than a console. The Xbox console will be ONE of the ways you can play Xbox games. You will also be able to play Xbox games and content on PC.

Trying to build the "one device to rule them all" to please both PC and console gamers is just an exercise in futility.

Does anyone think that there will be cross play between Scorpio and PC? To me that would be a reason to avoid it because in FPS mouse/keyboard would be a big advantage. I'm guessing they wouldn't do this or if they did it would only be for certain games.

 

[Zedox]

This thread leads me to believe MS best bet is to cut the gen short and pretty much cut ties with the X1. Have a X1 Slim this year and next year start of a new gen and cut ties with the X1.

They will not cut ties with the X1. What they will do is just not use it to market. The X1 will be used as a cheap way to play Xbox Live games (XBL games are games that are on both PC and Console and smaller extend Mobile...the marketing is basically there).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with mrklaw that for the most part, Microsoft has been doing the right things for the Xbox platform since the unveiling of the Xbox One. There's 3 things that MS has to do in order to be more competitive than they are now with launching Scorpio.

1. Make a powerful system that competes healthily with Sony
2. The initial message of the Xbox Scorpio needs to be "gamer-centric"
3. Get them 3rd party deals

Everything else, they are in a pretty good position.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note, I think that we will see a lot more indie games on the Xbox One than we have in the past because of the opening of the Windows Store to the Xbox console platform. Indies won't need to have "Xbox Live" in order to sell their game on the store and Xbox and PC gamers can still play them. No different than any other app store. We'll have a bunch of junk, sure, but the good ones will rise to the top. This fall is going to be very interesting.

 

[oldergamer]

If this is the case , they need to go big and 30% stronger than Neo is not big enough if you are gonna release later .

30%? you guys keep changing numbers thrown around to make any possible gap seem smaller and smaller. Tflops are NOT a good metric to use for performance. It only tells you part of the picture.

 

[KinofChaos]

I agree. Honestly, Sony have somewhat sucked this gen. Build quality of DS4 is awful, PS Plus isn't anywhere near as good as it was last gen, and first party output has been abysmal. The PS4 is a great piece of kit but Microsoft have made considerable improvements in their effort to reach the consumer.

No need for the hyperbole, their lineup this year is fantastic. Plus has had 2 great months in a row. Sounds like you are trying to spin a narrative Sony is not doing anything and MS is the one making all the effort to improve. You know all Sony's studios are making games right? A lot of MS improvements are largely back tracking on an awful initial plan.

 

[oldergamer]

They will not cut ties with the X1. What they will do is just not use it to market. The X1 will be used as a cheap way to play Xbox Live games (XBL games are games that are on both PC and Console and smaller extend Mobile...the marketing is basically there).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with mrklaw that for the most part, Microsoft has been doing the right things for the Xbox platform since the unveiling of the Xbox One. There's 3 things that MS has to do in order to be more competitive than they are now with launching Scorpio.

1. Make a powerful system that competes healthily with Sony
2. The initial message of the Xbox Scorpio needs to be "gamer-centric"
3. Get them 3rd party deals

Everything else, they are in a pretty good position.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note, I think that we will see a lot more indie games on the Xbox One than we have in the past because of the opening of the Windows Store to the Xbox console platform. Indies won't need to have "Xbox Live" in order to sell their game on the store and Xbox and PC gamers can still play them. No different than any other app store. We'll have a bunch of junk, sure, but the good ones will rise to the top. This fall is going to be very interesting.

I think they could do with announcing more first party titles. Cover a few more genres (by bringing back blue dragon and RPG's) and provide more exclusives. The amount of exclusives early in the x360 life made it such a good system. It's honestly the only way to find diamonds in the rough.

 

[c0de]

30%? you guys keep changing numbers thrown around to make any possible gap seem smaller and smaller. Tflops are NOT a good metric to use for performance. It only tells you part of the picture.

Blame the internet that people think they know how computers work when they post hardware specs.

 

[...Scatter...]

MS is rumored to release a new more powerful system and got their act together to focus on core games so instead of some folks saying: "Great, I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to see what they bring to the table", you get stuff like this:

· XBOX has no exclusives. They're all on PC now. XBOX has no games.

· I'm moving to PC gaming. I hate new consoles might release every 3 or 4 years. I'm going to move to a platform where I'll have a high up front cost of over $1,400 and then a new $300-$400 GPU every 3 years.

· PlayStation NEO has the perfect balance of price (unannounced) and power (rumored). XBOX will be releasing too late (rumored) and will be too expensive (rumored) and no-one will want it.

· PlayStation NEO has so much overhead. Sony will just raise the clocks to compete with the Scorpio.

· There is no way people are going to buy the competitors console. They are locked into "the ecosystem" and will just continue on in perpetuity. The 2:1 ratio is here to stay forever.

It's about time to create a bingo card. Did I miss any?

 

[Zedox]

Does anyone think that there will be cross play between Scorpio and PC? To me that would be a reason to avoid it because in FPS mouse/keyboard would be a big advantage. I'm guessing they wouldn't do this or if they did it would only be for certain games.

Yes, and developers can take that into account and have ways where gamers can choose to only play against console gamers (which is in Killer Instinct currently) or play against users of only controllers. That should be left up to the developer though, not the platform.

MS specifically made a converter for this

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-u...ridges/desktop

If some devs feel UWP is worthwhile to put their stuff on, they will likely do it. I guess it remains to be seen how well it actually works and what MS allows on their new xbox.

This is not as easy as you may think. Yes, they do have a converter, but it depends on your code on how easy it is to port. Most likely, a dev would still have to change a good chunk of code to get that working...especially game code.

 

[oldergamer]

MS is rumored to release a new more powerful system and got their act together to focus on core games so instead of some folks saying: "Great, I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to see what they bring to the table", you get stuff like this:

· XBOX has no exclusives. They're all on PC now. XBOX has no games.

· I'm moving to PC gaming. I hate new consoles might release every 3 or 4 years. I'm going to move to a platform where I'll have a high up front cost of over $1,400 and then a new $300-$400 GPU every 3 years.

· PlayStation NEO has the perfect balance of price (unannounced) and power (rumored). XBOX will be releasing too late (rumored) and will be too expensive (rumored) and no-one will want it.

· PlayStation NEO has so much overhead. Sony will just raise the clocks to compete with the Scorpio.

· There is no way people are going to buy the competitors console. They are locked into "the ecosystem" and will just continue on in perpetuity. The 2:1 ratio is here to stay forever.

It's about time to create a bingo card. Did I miss any?

That is pretty much this thread in a nutshell. Spot on post.

 

[SpartanN92]

Hahahahaha, took me a few seconds there. Well played

Hahaha thanks... I was hoping it was obvious enough but I've had more than one person PM me "Why Keanu?"

Lol

 

[SpartanN92]

MS is rumored to release a new more powerful system and got their act together to focus on core games so instead of some folks saying: "Great, I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to see what they bring to the table", you get stuff like this:

· XBOX has no exclusives. They're all on PC now. XBOX has no games.

· I'm moving to PC gaming. I hate new consoles might release every 3 or 4 years. I'm going to move to a platform where I'll have a high up front cost of over $1,400 and then a new $300-$400 GPU every 3 years.

· PlayStation NEO has the perfect balance of price (unannounced) and power (rumored). XBOX will be releasing too late (rumored) and will be too expensive (rumored) and no-one will want it.

· PlayStation NEO has so much overhead. Sony will just raise the clocks to compete with the Scorpio.

· There is no way people are going to buy the competitors console. They are locked into "the ecosystem" and will just continue on in perpetuity. The 2:1 ratio is here to stay forever.

It's about time to create a bingo card. Did I miss any?

You have nailed it. Great post.

 

[...Scatter...]

Hahaha thanks... I was hoping it was obvious enough but I've had more than one person PM me "Why Keanu?"

Lol

I JUST got it. I'm dumb.

 

[Primethius]

MS is rumored to release a new more powerful system and got their act together to focus on core games so instead of some folks saying: "Great, I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to see what they bring to the table", you get stuff like this:

· XBOX has no exclusives. They're all on PC now. XBOX has no games.

· I'm moving to PC gaming. I hate new consoles might release every 3 or 4 years. I'm going to move to a platform where I'll have a high up front cost of over $1,400 and then a new $300-$400 GPU every 3 years.

· PlayStation NEO has the perfect balance of price (unannounced) and power (rumored). XBOX will be releasing too late (rumored) and will be too expensive (rumored) and no-one will want it.

· PlayStation NEO has so much overhead. Sony will just raise the clocks to compete with the Scorpio.

· There is no way people are going to buy the competitors console. They are locked into "the ecosystem" and will just continue on in perpetuity. The 2:1 ratio is here to stay forever.

It's about time to create a bingo card. Did I miss any?

While I agree with how crazy the rest of the points are, the last one is very much valid. PS4 will be around 60 million by next May.

Unless Scorpio comes out late this year or early next year and manages to match the PS4 price (not neo), this generation isn't changing.

And the ratio is here to stay. Maybe even increase in PS4s favor.

 

[Zedox]

I think they could do with announcing more first party titles. Cover a few more genres (by bringing back blue dragon and RPG's) and provide more exclusives. The amount of exclusives early in the x360 life made it such a good system. It's honestly the only way to find diamonds in the rough.

The exclusives won't move the needle that much. I hear ya but it would take a game changer of an exclusive to make that happen...like a Halo:CE, a Mario 64 type of game changer game or set of games to make that happen. That's rare nowadays. But I do think that they've been working on their exclusives since Phil has taken over and that's a good thing. I still feel that this generation hasn't had their "Gears" moment (on either side). Hopefully this year or next year changes that.

 

[Josman]

MS is rumored to release a new more powerful system and got their act together to focus on core games so instead of some folks saying: "Great, I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to see what they bring to the table", you get stuff like this:

· XBOX has no exclusives. They're all on PC now. XBOX has no games.

· I'm moving to PC gaming. I hate new consoles might release every 3 or 4 years. I'm going to move to a platform where I'll have a high up front cost of over $1,400 and then a new $300-$400 GPU every 3 years.

· PlayStation NEO has the perfect balance of price (unannounced) and power (rumored). XBOX will be releasing too late (rumored) and will be too expensive (rumored) and no-one will want it.

· PlayStation NEO has so much overhead. Sony will just raise the clocks to compete with the Scorpio.

· There is no way people are going to buy the competitors console. They are locked into "the ecosystem" and will just continue on in perpetuity. The 2:1 ratio is here to stay forever.

It's about time to create a bingo card. Did I miss any?

Sounds like selective reading bro
the second half of point 3 is true though, not that no one will want it but it would have a hard time

 

[Zedox]

Unless Scorpio comes out late this year or early next year and manages to match the PS4 price (not neo), this generation isn't changing.

And the ratio is here to stay. Maybe even increase in PS4s favor.

Ya, if you are counting consoles...the ratio is most likely going to stay the same. Only thing about that is what MS is doing is not trying to fight on Sonys turf. When you are losing the game and can't win, you just change the game. That's what it seems MS is doing with how they perceive a customer. With Nintendo coming with NX and Sony full steam ahead, shit is so interesting more than a couple of years ago.

 

[...Scatter...]

Ya, if you are counting consoles...the ratio is most likely going to stay the same. Only thing about that is what MS is doing is not trying to fight on Sonys turf. When you are losing the game and can't win, you just change the game. That's what it seems MS is doing with how they perceive a customer. With Nintendo coming with NX and Sony full steam ahead, shit is so interesting more than a couple of years ago.

I always thought MAU was a cop out for shit sales but it's actually interesting to see this strategy unfolding.

 

[...Scatter...]

Sounds like selective reading bro
the second half of point 3 is true though, not that no one will want it but it would have a hard time

Selective reading but in 30 seconds I've got two posters including yourself arguing the merits of the shit list.

 

[Primethius]

Ya, if you are counting consoles...the ratio is most likely going to stay the same. Only thing about that is what MS is doing is not trying to fight on Sonys turf. When you are losing the game and can't win, you just change the game. That's what it seems MS is doing with how they perceive a customer. With Nintendo coming with NX and Sony full steam ahead, shit is so interesting more than a couple of years ago.

Yea, it's really interesting. And I certainly won't discount MS achieving success on thier own terms.

That's why I'm looking forward to MS's conference so much. I want to see what exactly that vision and terms entail.

 

[iceatcs]

I don't think it will do well on non-US market no matter what price. Maybe UK.

 

[nekkid]

Yea, it's really interesting. And I certainly won't discount MS achieving success on thier own terms.

That's why I'm looking forward to MS's conference so much. I want to see what exactly that vision and terms entail.

If nothing else, this hardware and the way it's released will tell us once and for all whether Phil Spencer has his head screwed on.

 

[...Scatter...]

If nothing else, this hardware and the way it's released will tell us once and for all whether Phil Spencer has his head screwed on.

For sure.

 

[Zedox]

I always thought MAU was a cop out for shit sales but it's actually interesting to see this strategy unfolding.

Yea, I think everyone was like...wtf is this bullshit, I know I was until I saw what their strategy was. Now everything to me is interesting. I still don't personally care for MAU, but I've never been a person who cared about console sale numbers period (I thought and still think that they are dumb from a gamers perspective...I don't get paid by how much those companies sell so I don't give a shit but anywho) so it never affected me.

MS strategy is interesting to me since I buy their products (they got me when I started game development with XNA, but I had an xbox before that) and how certain products affect me. Cross-buy with PC and console games, playing together all using the same shit, that seems cool to me (and a good value). Having indie developers (like myself) make a game that can span from phone to tablet to desktop to console to a AR headset and sell it all in one store all using the same dev tools...that shit is cool to me (especially since I have a game idea around that that I need to stop being lazy on and code).

What's also interesting to me is how MS has positioned itself where it could be a real competitor to both leading parties of the console and pc gaming space at the same time but with "less" effort as everything their stuff runs on is the same thing really. I just find this strategy to be very interesting. Like how are the other competitors going to affect what MS does and how do they react to something that could very well be bigger than what it is now. Sony has nothing on the PC and Steam has nothing in the console space but MS is competing against both at the same time. That scenario is just cool to me.

 

[Dinky Dino]

This is not as easy as you may think. Yes, they do have a converter, but it depends on your code on how easy it is to port. Most likely, a dev would still have to change a good chunk of code to get that working...especially game code.

Yea I never figured it would be as simple as drag n drop but MS is providing tools to push people in that direction so you might see some win32 programs pop up on UWP. Going forward their plan is probably hoping to get devs to make their games/programs using UWP and put em on both windows and their xbox. How easy will it be to get it on both? I guess that depends on a lot of factors like their software and the hardware design of this new xbox.

 

[ps3ud0]

Honestly I find it hard to get past how MS will approach non-US/non-English-speaking after what they did during the XO launch. It feels like they completely burnt bridges and any in-roads the X360 made was lost in what felt like a calculated move to shore up the numbers they sold in the US during launch. Very much a short-term pyrrhic victory...

To me that seems to be the largest problem (far moreso than the power one we seem to argue on forums) as its about potential growth, the US alone just cant support what it seems MS wants from Xbox.

Would you consider Xbox to really be anything but an American brand now? And if not, what makes it a valued global brand? It really shouldnt be worthy of question more than a decade into their endeavour...

Tough times ahead, while no doubt a update feels like a clean slate its very much not particularly with this idea that console sales dont just reset to zero.

ps3ud0 8)

 

[Durante]

[...]
· I'm moving to PC gaming. I hate new consoles might release every 3 or 4 years. I'm going to move to a platform where I'll have a high up front cost of over $1,400 and then a new $300-$400 GPU every 3 years.
[...]

A $200 GPU with performance in the same range as these rumored consoles was just announced. You can buy it next month.

 

[Coffinhal]

Microsoft is definitely going to release closed gaming Windows 10 boxes.

It's really the year to move to PC.

 

[Zedox]

Yea I never figured it would be as simple as drag n drop but MS is providing tools to push people in that direction so you might see some win32 programs pop up on UWP. Going forward their plan is probably hoping to get devs to make their games/programs using UWP and put em on both windows and their xbox. How easy will it be to get it on both? I guess that depends on a lot of factors like their software and the hardware design of this new xbox.

I think that for smaller dev shops, they will have games on both PC and Xbox console (I don't think they'll do cross-buy but wouldn't be surprised to see it as they are 3rd parties). I think all MS 1st party games will be cross-buy. I think bigger 3rd party shops will have both UWA and Win32 apps as long as Windows 7 gamers are still there but I think that will only be at max 5 more years. I think those shops will have their own store and sell UWAs in it, instead of Windows Store. I think Steam will eventually support UWAs as well and sell them. I do think that more indie development will come out on the Xbox as well though because of UWA.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Microsoft is definitely going to release closed gaming Windows 10 boxes.

It's really the year to move to PC.

Yea, it's called an Xbox.

 

[...Scatter...]

A $200 GPU with performance in the same range as these rumored consoles was just announced. You can buy it next month.

I know. That's a good value card for sure and makes the entry point lower. It takes PC gaming from very expensive to still pretty expensive.

 

[Final Verdict]

Not sure if I am the only one here thinking this, but this "Scorpio" console doesn't sound like a mid generation refresh to me. It sounds like a completely new platform.

I could be wrong, but if they are using the rumored stuff like Vega, HBM2, and Zen, then that would be a massive power gap between the current gen consoles.
Also with the rumored vr partnership with oculus rift....I'm fairly certain that vr would only be able to work on Scorpio.

And also, if they chose to present it a a whole new generation, they would be able to rebrand and avoid a lot of sales comparisons to the PS4 base as that would be considered last generation.

Obviously I don't know their plans myself, but given the rumors, this is what would make the most sense to me.

 

[Odorono]

I'm moving to PC gaming. I hate new consoles might release every 3 or 4 years. I'm going to move to a platform where I'll have a high up front cost of over $1,400 and then a new $300-$400 GPU every 3 years.

I love hyperbole.

 

[gamz]

Microsoft is definitely going to release closed gaming Windows 10 boxes.

It's really the year to move to PC.

Yeah, Xbox.

 

[Chris1]

Yeah, Xbox.

Yea, it's called an Xbox.

Lmao

Coffin right now

 

[kodecraft]

So could we expect Scalebound to be pushed back for a Scorpio release?

 

[...Scatter...]

So could we expect Scalebound to be pushed back for a Scorpio release?

Doubt it. Maybe a day 1 remaster (using that word lightly)?

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I think the idea is to bring the Xbox platform to PC in full. Meaning that devs just make Xbox UWP games and they work across the console and PC. Windows 10 gets it's own "Steam Big Picture Mode", only of the Xbox variant.

Then they get to sell everyone's games, not just their own, in two places. (Scorpio primarily + PC).