GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
There's no need for 140+ pages..relax ppl. The bottom line is, PS4 will melt once Scorpio gets officially released 
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
justsomeguy
Member
This tired nonsense again. If you try really really hard i bet you can think of at least one or two reasons why people might prefer a console to a pc.
Your post also suggests that literally every console owner owns at least one exclusive - otherwise they'd have just bought a pc right? Doubt that's true either.suspect Many people just want a cod/gta box
cebri.one
Member
PS4 announcement : February 2013
XB1 announcement : May 2013
They went into the future, and then changed their specs.
Time travel is a thing now according to you? All that quantum break messing with your head
Opus Angelorum
Member
Oh sure, assuming everyone has a £500+ gaming PC.
Iced Arcade
Member
haha gold
Stilton Disco
Member
I think MS are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation with revealing Scorpio, and really the biggest problem it has isn't the Neo, it's the Xbox One.
Their public perception because of the XO is in the shitter, they've now got a reputation for having poor hardware, bad value for money, fewer games, less consumer friendly policies, and disappointing first party games. That is a huge burden to overcome and convince the average consumer about, and isn't solved by simply throwing more power at the problem.
Now combine those hurdles with making it a matter of competing with a more powerful PS4 in the Neo with a (apparently) mandatory 1080p minimum res, all markets sales dominance, vastly better public perception, better third party support and more popular first party games , and it just makes any potential improvements Scorpio can bring less impactful.
Worse, because the XO compared to the PS4 did put the measuring stick of performance so heavily on resolution, with both upgraded systems playing games designed for the base models bumped up in quality with a minimum 1080p and almost certainly a 4K option, the actual differences will likely be down to frame rate consistency and effects, neither of which will offer a clear message of which system is better to the average consumer in the same way as the 1080p vs 720p/900p/837p silliness we've had the last couple of years has.
So yeah, damned if you do and damned if you don't; Announcing sooner means either less power or a higher price to release alongside the Neo, or going insane with a PS3 like loss on every unit sold and hoping people will suddenly really care about frame rates on consoles, or more likely, it being a post holiday release, however far off that may be, that will keep the tiny pool of US and UK consumers supporting the XO from jumping ship, but will see most people just buying the Neo because it's just as shiny and new and available for Christmas.
Announcing later, conversely, just hands Sony with the Neo and PSVR the market this Christmas unopposed and potentially leaving it that way for about a years, at which point why even bother releasing it at all, unless you're not trying to sell to the traditional console market.
I just can't see any scenario where they can announce or release the Scorpio against the Neo that doesn't involve overcoming obstacles that were left in their path by the XO, and it doesn't matter if they can leap them comparatively higher if the Neo can still clear them easily too.
At this point, I'm not sure there's anything they can do that would actual make a difference to the position in the market.
Their public perception because of the XO is in the shitter, they've now got a reputation for having poor hardware, bad value for money, fewer games, less consumer friendly policies, and disappointing first party games. That is a huge burden to overcome and convince the average consumer about, and isn't solved by simply throwing more power at the problem.
Now combine those hurdles with making it a matter of competing with a more powerful PS4 in the Neo with a (apparently) mandatory 1080p minimum res, all markets sales dominance, vastly better public perception, better third party support and more popular first party games , and it just makes any potential improvements Scorpio can bring less impactful.
Worse, because the XO compared to the PS4 did put the measuring stick of performance so heavily on resolution, with both upgraded systems playing games designed for the base models bumped up in quality with a minimum 1080p and almost certainly a 4K option, the actual differences will likely be down to frame rate consistency and effects, neither of which will offer a clear message of which system is better to the average consumer in the same way as the 1080p vs 720p/900p/837p silliness we've had the last couple of years has.
So yeah, damned if you do and damned if you don't; Announcing sooner means either less power or a higher price to release alongside the Neo, or going insane with a PS3 like loss on every unit sold and hoping people will suddenly really care about frame rates on consoles, or more likely, it being a post holiday release, however far off that may be, that will keep the tiny pool of US and UK consumers supporting the XO from jumping ship, but will see most people just buying the Neo because it's just as shiny and new and available for Christmas.
Announcing later, conversely, just hands Sony with the Neo and PSVR the market this Christmas unopposed and potentially leaving it that way for about a years, at which point why even bother releasing it at all, unless you're not trying to sell to the traditional console market.
I just can't see any scenario where they can announce or release the Scorpio against the Neo that doesn't involve overcoming obstacles that were left in their path by the XO, and it doesn't matter if they can leap them comparatively higher if the Neo can still clear them easily too.
At this point, I'm not sure there's anything they can do that would actual make a difference to the position in the market.
It's simple, dead simple. Xbox games are no longer uncommon or brand unique and the majority of good to great games will be available on multiple platforms that all are or are perceived to be more successful than XBone has been why go all in on hardware on a crap shoot like that?
PS4 has been insanely successful and they are releasing a VR unit that can utilize more horsepower...that makes sense. The MS modus operandi is that they've been thoroughly trounced and are trying to claw back in by essentially giving up on the brand and trying squeeze those still loyal out of probably another $699. (I doubt it's going to be under $450) Rolling XBone out with kinect, overpriced, initially always online etc., etc. did a great job promoting PS4 why would this be any different?
Also, why would someone spend extra money for a console to play a few games you can already play on PC if XBox as a brand altogether could be completely gone except for some branded controllers in a couple of years? Maybe if you don't have a PC gaming rig I can see the immediate allure somewhat but not if you just got an XBone and not if you bought in at launch still questioning whether it was the right choice.
MS originally rolled out Xbone as a concept as always online, always potentially spying on you, with a bunch of stuff you didn't want. Why would you assume this isn't the other shoe dropping allowing them to re-implement the original plan that cost them millions of units of sales, especially considering all of the discreet built-in spying code that people have been discovering in Windows 10 for months? It's very difficult to see them growing past where Xbone's footprint is now if that much.
anothertech
Member
This... Makes no sense at all.
Even a 6 month lead means Sony has the upper hand. And it's more than likely Sony is going to pull Somthing out of the hat at E3.
Also, MS is going to announce at E3. Sony is forcing them to. No way they are going to let Sony and Neo be the only buzz at the show this year.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
"Install from disc". Aww, cute.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Hardly anyone has a PC gaming rig when you actually look at the numbers. But even if you argue that PC users are massive, consoles and PC players aren't the same thing and many console players will never, ever consider a PC. It's not just the money or the convenience or the eco system or the friends list, it's all of those things and 30 years of games systems being the place that people play games.
After changing leadership, rebranding and attempting to completely reposition their system, losing a lot of sales, why would you think that a new Xbox would see them go back to the old, failed plan? Doesn't make any sense.
gamerforever
Banned
Ms won't stop sales of the ps4 by announcing the scorpio, they will just end sales of the xbox one as ps4 gamers won't wait for a new xbox and may even just get a neo.
If microsoft were the market leader, their strategy could have worked.
As a ps4 only gamer i hope the neo is powerful enough, but will it even matter? If there are no more traditional generation cycles, sony have pretty much won the battle as it is at this point do gamers change their 'allegiances'. Having a refresh is like getting an updated ipad as opposed to switching to a samsung tablet - hardly anyone does that, or am i naive in believing so?
Either way, it will be very interesting and this competition will only help us, the gamer!
If microsoft were the market leader, their strategy could have worked.
As a ps4 only gamer i hope the neo is powerful enough, but will it even matter? If there are no more traditional generation cycles, sony have pretty much won the battle as it is at this point do gamers change their 'allegiances'. Having a refresh is like getting an updated ipad as opposed to switching to a samsung tablet - hardly anyone does that, or am i naive in believing so?
Either way, it will be very interesting and this competition will only help us, the gamer!
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I doubt MS wanted to announce the Scorpio this year, but probably feel they have to with the Neo on the horizon. I don't think it will be a full reveal though, more of a teaser.
It shouldn't effect sales that much. They will have a new XB1 slim at a cheaper price and have a good selection of games incoming. Plus they will hammer home that all your games will come with you and so it's great to buy into the ecosystem etc.
There's an ultra slim chance that they get this thing out by end of year / early next year. The technology required is arriving as we speak so its not impossible, just highly improbable and hol 2017 is more realistic. Who knows though, maybe MS have been very sneaky behind the scenes these last 6 months.
P.S. The notion that Xbox wont sell anymore because the games are on PC is stupid to the core. If everyone had medium spec plus gaming PC's, 'nobody' would buy the PlayStation either. Consoles sell to a largely different audience.
It shouldn't effect sales that much. They will have a new XB1 slim at a cheaper price and have a good selection of games incoming. Plus they will hammer home that all your games will come with you and so it's great to buy into the ecosystem etc.
There's an ultra slim chance that they get this thing out by end of year / early next year. The technology required is arriving as we speak so its not impossible, just highly improbable and hol 2017 is more realistic. Who knows though, maybe MS have been very sneaky behind the scenes these last 6 months.
P.S. The notion that Xbox wont sell anymore because the games are on PC is stupid to the core. If everyone had medium spec plus gaming PC's, 'nobody' would buy the PlayStation either. Consoles sell to a largely different audience.
Christ lol. Most of you can barely run FarmVille on your computers let alone have the specs to run Microsofts games . This excuse has to stop its sad .
Bitch Pudding
Member
Well, it seems the "MS was stabbed-in-the-back by Sony at E3 2013 legend" never gets old...
Hmm?
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I'm just kidding. About the demise of the disc.
I agree. I just wonder if MS management is thinking 'well we would have beaten PS4 if we were more powerful' and are ignoring all the other fuck ups they did around the messaging at launch. If so, they could be jumping in with both feet with raw power and ignoring everything else.
Well to be fair they've fixed most other issues they had at launch under Phil. Kinect, more expensive box, terrible messaging (ok it's still pretty terrible but a different kind of terrible), no DRM, it's a box for gamers, focusing lots of new IP's, etc.
The only thing they haven't fixed since launch was Power and the fact most people have a PS4 now so they just get their friends to get one aswell. Well that and the whole Europe issue but they'll never fix that, at least they're trying a little (emphasis on little) more with big focus at gamescom now though.
biglittleps
Member
Powerful hardware alone won't help the system to sell and this helps only to make hardcore fans of their system happy. They need games (exclusives) and platform that provides more value or features than competition to differentiate and affordable price with good worldwide marketing (not just UK and US and this is Sony strength as they are selling 60% outside US and UK). Sony does not have to match Scorpio power and they just need to make sure that they can achieve 1080p 60fps possible with many games coming in next 2-3 years as they can launch a Powerful PS5 in 2019.
I thought exclusives didn't matter?
biglittleps
Member
It matters in order to differentiate and give a reason why they should choose this system. Many people are buying PS4 not only just to play 3rd party games, but also for their exclusives and many gaffers own PS4 only for the exclusives and play 3rd party games in their high end gaming pc. Why they should buy scorpio when they are going to release most of their exclusives games in PC ?
Choices, some people don't like upgrading PCs and would rather play games on consoles. For instance I use my One for MS exclusives and PS4 for multiplats.
Primethius
Banned
Because the mainstream market, which MS is presumably targeting with Scorpio, doesn't care about building a PC to play MS games.
When Halo 6 comes out to PC and XB1, individual platform sales aren't going to be canabalized to a notable degree. Its just going to be another platform that people will buy the game on.
hardseppo
Member
Even devs thought it would only have 4GB until the 2013 E3 press conference
http://www.videogamer.com/news/ps4s...om_third-party_devs_until_console_reveal.html
DuckSlayer
Banned
People buy consoles to play the big games not fight console wars. Games like GTA, Red dead redemption, Halo, battlefield etc .. Few ppl care if its on pc or not and only a minority can actually play them with better graphics than consoles anyway (go on look it up!) Perhaps you should note Doom with its low requirements was still outsold on pc by Xbox and Playstation gamers .. Do you think console gamers care it was on pc of course not. Xbox hardware being stronger hardware than playstation for the 3 rd out of 4 times is a sore point for some people and so they post endlessly here .. Its quite amusing how everone claims it will fail. U know if xbox can run steam and origin and all pc games playstation is doomed .. And one day Uncharted will be sold for windows just like xbox games as sony turns into a software company ( its not like they make anything other than a repackaged amd x86 box now).
The ps4 was revealed in Feb. 2013 ...
Leyasu
Banned
Lol get that truth out of here. Sony are like masters of everything from deception to hardware/software, music and films, to changing the specs of their consoles at the last moment to combat the competition or trump them.
There's nothing that they can't do according to their "followers" on forums.
InquisitorAles
Member
I feel that we running in circles. This question was answered many, many times already, since QB coming to Win10 news. Why it's so hard to understand for some people that even if you buy Microsoft games on PC, you'll still need to use their platform?
I talked to my spouse about these rumors the other day, and we figured that, IF the rumors are true(Scorpio more powerful than Neo and is Oculus Rift compatible), then we'd likely work towards getting one(had an Xbox One, but had to sell to help pay for vet services for our cat) instead of a Neo and a PSVR(still have and would keep my PS4).
That said, all of this is contingent on the thing actually being announced before the Neo releases(yes, I know it hasn't been announced either).
That said, all of this is contingent on the thing actually being announced before the Neo releases(yes, I know it hasn't been announced either).
But this is NeoGAF, not the YouTube comments section.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Naw it wont.
People will getting this console still if they want to play game X this holiday.
KinofChaos
Banned
Considering PS4 was revealed before x1 that is an amazing feat from Sony.
show me your skeleton
Member
man, this being shown at e3 but not being released until next year is crazy.
You make obvious points, Xbox is in an inferior position since it's release in 2013, but I think it's disingenuous to say they have done nothing to improve their position since then. They've made huge strides in first party games, software updates and hardware (Elite Controller is superb). MS is on a roll and people have noticed.
MS shot themselves in the foot, let's be honest lol. Sony just .. did everything right.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I agree. Honestly, Sony have somewhat sucked this gen. Build quality of DS4 is awful, PS Plus isn't anywhere near as good as it was last gen, and first party output has been abysmal. The PS4 is a great piece of kit but Microsoft have made considerable improvements in their effort to reach the consumer.
Primethius
Banned
That's a hard metric to prove (people noticing) as the sales of the XB1 don't really reflect that. It's had very clear sales bumps directly as a result of price drops but nothing indicates that people are noticing first party games (which have been selling poorly), or software updates and the like.
Maybe on GAF? But it certainly hasn't translated to actual sales.
therealbigrich
Member
They are in a tough position for sure... But they have to do something
Backfoggen
Banned
Trying some FO4 mods on Xbox makes me pray they have a model with an SSD in it. Or at least full SATA3 support. The load times are traaash.
Console gamers don't want PCs.
Console gamers don't want PCs.
Apparently they do if it's just packaged and marketed right.
therealbigrich
Member
I can tell the Xbox games being on PC is something you specifically feel is the reason no one would want a Xbox. Seems like they are going after PS4 owners that also want to play Xbox games and never thought about PC /want convenience of console.
Also I don't see how ppl would think they would be implementing the original plan that cost them millions of sales like you said. This is a chance to debut a new console and change all the perceptions to try and make money. Can't see all the 180s for X1 to just go back on them
I agree with some of this but overall it just reminds me of comments from last gen saying there was no way back for Sony and Xbox would become dominant in the west.
Consumers are fickle and will go where the perceived value is. The only thing that really matters to many is which console is the best place to play the next CoD/FIFA/GTA etc.
Backfoggen
Banned
Is this the dumb "consoles are PCs because they share the same hardware architecture" argument again?
Theonik
Member
'balance' is a really misleading concept when talking about very different hardware components like this. A CPU prepares work for the GPU, but it doesn't determine the GPU throughput, higher framerates if the framerate is held back from the CPU part of the pipeline will need a faster CPU, but adding say extra effects, higher resolution etc etc doesn't tax the CPU in a significant manner and can take advantage of a faster GPU on its own.
Primethius
Banned
This is a good point. But I it's think only relevant if the messaging for the iterative consoles fails and people perceive the systems to be the start of a new gen or some other worst case scenario. There won't be a lot of changes while the gen is in progress, especially when you consider that Sony gets to put out potentially two products out into the market to give them a bigger boost before Scorpio comes out.