MrChocolate
Member
Well if I'm going with that train of thought then Philippines should just be nuked because nothing can be done to improve the current situation.
Philippine President-Elect Urges Public to Kill Drug Dealers
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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Well if I'm going with that train of thought then Philippines should just be nuked because nothing can be done to improve the current situation.
Those human rights abuses are also crimes and corruption...
He's honest about being a slimy murdering PoS up to his neck in corruption? That makes him the best candidate!
And I guess he was really honest about wanting to rape that reporter first, too. Definitely President material.
He's disgusting.
He's also honest about being a pro-rape goon. Being "pro-Duarte" seems akin to being pro-Jeffrey Dahmer or pro-Idi Amin. The mental gymnastics that someone needs to go through to feel that way are astounding.
You should be branded with "FUCKING ASSHOLE" in your forehead.
Soldiussnaku
Member
Depending how this plays out, what you suggested can be a very possible scenario down the road of this guy's presidency.
The problem with the military is that they can be very effective, at a enormous societal, cultural and human life loss. This scenario could very well lead to a dictatorship.
Sure, you reform the police, but now there is a iron grip around the country's neck, and that'll lead to further unrest. Add to that, since the military played a part in the reform of the police, they now listen/act more on the their side then the populations, the problem of corruption won't be eradicated, just re-focused so the police do the bidding of the higher ups then the criminals.
The near-insane thing is, what you suggested probably is the only, real move forward to introduce widespread change.
There is simply no easy/right choice, we'll have to see what happens.
Look at the OP's posts: we're witnessing it firsthand.
I mis-remembered your post then (which, as I went back to check, was "I disagree with US policy because I don't care about promoting human rights and democracy"). I understand where that sentiment comes from - the way that "human rights" is often just used as an excuse for neocolonialism and economic imperialism, white man's burden, etc. And to be honest I don't think there's much of a real philosophical basis for the existence of human rights since that's reliant on there being some sort of objective value to human life, which there isn't, and which stems ultimately from religious thinking.
But even though it may not be philosophically sound, I still support human rights due to the simple elegance of the golden rule, which is really all I can hold to in a world where we can't presume that other minds do exist (I know this is going off tangent into existentialism but it's the only way I can really explain my position). I'll be honest, I don't know a whole ton about the Philippines. But I do know a whole ton about socialism, and I know that people on my side who usually are fine with trampling over human rights in the name of progress often end up making everything worse. Not coincidentally, it seems like the communists in the Philippines support Duterte, so once again I find myself disappointed.
Self-righteousness is an evil thing.
Autumn Wind
Member
Isn't that exactly what Paul LePage said that was noted on Last Week Tonight? Isn't that the premise of Death Wish III (actually all of the Death Wish movies) and that is to "get the bad guys."
It's kind of funny of Death Wish never had a terrible NES game based off of it made by none other than LJN.
It's kind of funny of Death Wish never had a terrible NES game based off of it made by none other than LJN.
Sun Bather
Member
That's a strange reading of my post, and certainly not what I hoped you would get out of it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
If you can call that safety.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I see all of the above happening, kind of. His stance on China is problematic with US interests so I think the US will support other factions in the Philippines covertly. I think, just like with his improper hold on power in Davao, he will have a longer than constitutional term. And I think because of picking fights with the military, the police, the established politicians, and rubbing half of the Philippines the wrong way, he is going to be assassinated.
MrChocolate
Member
I know, I looked back at south america in the 70's and 80's. There were coups everywhere and while crime still existed, it was just related to minor offenses.
EDIT: I read it once again and it sounds bad. I'm not saying that there must be a coup, just that in this case, controlled military forces can help on the task to diminish the crime rate and drug dealing.
Sorry, I got that from your post. But I get it that military forces might be corrupt too and not the final solution. The problem comes when your police is corrupt as hell, you can't invest more money in them. What's your option?
- Military out on the streets. Safe choice, but it has to deal with the issue as quickly as possible. If not, a situation like Soldiussnaku described might happen.
- Harsher laws. This is something that won't help when the institution that's in charge of applying it (or at least be part of it) is also corrupt as hell.
- Tougher sentences. You would have to invest a huuuge amount of money in prison facilities. This should be paired with an education system for the inmates, to make them useful for the society once their sentence is over.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I'm going to respond to this in PoliGAF so that I stop derailing this thread.
victreeb3l
Member
This will surely end well.
Ugh gaf, I'm Filipino, but god help us.
Also, as I said in another thread, this guy was my neighbor, so I know the shitty stories about him. Guy is corrupt as fuck and had been sending his death squad to those who go against his business or his friends' businesses.
Oh and journalists who write expose about him suddenly end up dead. There was a prior thread to this where he said corrupt journalists should be assassinated.
Gaf, pls help us.
--EDIT: and just to add to the notion that Davao City (where he was mayor) is safe. It generally is, but there's alot of unreported crimes that go on. Gangs still roam around the street last I heard, and they were recruiting street kids to do their bidding because they cant get sentenced by the law. There's also a lot of murder-related crimes and sexual harassment crimes in Davao City last I checked.
Yeah it's generally safe, but it's not the safest in the Philippines. Duterte earned his moniker by quelling a rebellion in the 80s. That's just it
Also, as I said in another thread, this guy was my neighbor, so I know the shitty stories about him. Guy is corrupt as fuck and had been sending his death squad to those who go against his business or his friends' businesses.
Oh and journalists who write expose about him suddenly end up dead. There was a prior thread to this where he said corrupt journalists should be assassinated.
Gaf, pls help us.
--EDIT: and just to add to the notion that Davao City (where he was mayor) is safe. It generally is, but there's alot of unreported crimes that go on. Gangs still roam around the street last I heard, and they were recruiting street kids to do their bidding because they cant get sentenced by the law. There's also a lot of murder-related crimes and sexual harassment crimes in Davao City last I checked.
Yeah it's generally safe, but it's not the safest in the Philippines. Duterte earned his moniker by quelling a rebellion in the 80s. That's just it
Lmao. Sure, spain was a great place to live back then as there was no crime! They would just acuse anyone of being from the left and kill him, but nobody stole anything.
Come on son.
dragonelite
Member
1)Shoots a guy
2)put a some coke in his pocket
3)????
4)be a hero
2)put a some coke in his pocket
3)????
4)be a hero
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I wonder what people in the Phillippines saw in this guy, and I wonder what they have against drugs. Hasn't decriminalization in Portugal been mostly a success story?
Similar to how some Americans like Trump: people wanted an anti-establishment candidate that makes generalized promises (solving crimes on 3-6 months lol) and by targeting a specific crisis (in this case, drugs, even if drugs isnt that biggest problem in the country. It's simply a symptom of poverty, the biggest issue the government has to tackle.)
EYEL1NER
Member
I'm gonna need to see some sources on that. I have seen "Davao is the safest city in the Philippines" and "Davao is ranked as one of the top safest cities in the world" many times in the lead up to the election and have never seen any legit proof.
I've already seen plenty of disputing that it is one of the safest cities in the world. The source for that claim is not any reputable travel/economic/tourist sites or government-sponsored agencies but a site called Numbeo that gathers its "data" from random user contributions.
I haven't seen much proving or disproving the other claim though, that it is the safest in the PI. What I have seen tends to favor the "it isn't true" side of things. Here is some data gathered by a Facebook user who claims that Davao city is not even the safest city in Mindanao, let alone in the entire country: https://www.facebook.com/notes/andy...s-the-city-even-safest-in-the/133935090305496
If you have some stuff for me to read, I will be more than happy to do so. I just find it a bit hard to believe that a city with as many unsolved murders and Death Squads killing random people can be propped up as the "safest."
A lot of em are uneducated, lacks logic/common sense and quite religious.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
univariate
Banned
How can you support this guy, OP? I find that particularly repugnant.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
The Phillippines is on my bucket list of countries I really want to visit. I've heard great things here on GAF. People are supposed to be friendly.
In the John Oliver clip the guy says to the press that it was the womans own fault for being raped because she was pretty. That is one of the most cruel and sinister statements I have ever heard from a world leader.
Why are so many right-wing conservatives in power right now? Besides France, Germany, Canada, I cannot think of many countries that has a left leaning government. I'm very sad about the UK in particularly
But this..It makes China and Russia look better. It's not NK/Saudi levels, but it seems that the Phillippines want to touch base with them
Cool that he doesn't go to church, separate faith from his job, support Muslims, and all the seemingly positive stuff that people take away from this guy, but it doesn't excuse granting his citizens the power to murder people. Forget their criminal backgrounds, he's giving people carte blanche on taking people out with an easy enough excuse of "he's a drug dealer" - pretty sure murder is also a crime in itself.
Giving people the power to be judge, jury, and executioner will not end well. Anyone can get tagged for something and end up dead in the streets the next day. A lot of things can go wrong, I don't think this needs to be said.
From what I can gather based on his stance on crime, he doesn't have any idea on how to minimize it legitimately.
marimorimo
Member
So we are going to sell our soul to the devil in exchange for an illusion of "peace."
I support Machiavellian tactics so in principle I should be behind Duterte, but I don't agree with his methods. It's an incredibly inelegant solution that only treats the symptoms, not the root of the problem. It's also ripe for abuse. What's stopping an enemy from firing a gun at you claiming that you're a drug dealer even if you're not?
Exactly.
You're not going to even start to make a dent in the poverty until they separate the church out from state or at least lessen it, the church has far too much say in the running of the country.
My fiancee wasn't allowed to get any sort of birth control because she hasn't had a child yet, what kind of fucked up logic is that? (luckily the Philippines is corrupt and she can pay her nurse friend for a "prescription")
Of course that is assuming that women even know that birth control exists because they do a damn good job of saying it doesn't and even those that do know about it, they get told about numerous exaggerated side effects that WILL(yes, will, not may like the rest of the world) happen with them.
I know so many women there that are so embarrassed to go and ask for any birth control because of what they have been told about them.
This may not be how it is in the cities but in the smaller islands, it's most certainly true.
Silver Arrows
Banned
Why are so many right-wing conservatives in power right now? Besides France, Germany, Canada, I cannot think of many countries that has a left leaning government. I'm very sad about the UK in particularly
It makes China and Russia look better. It's not NK/Saudi levels, but it seems that the Phillippines want to touch base with them
uhm
we kinda dropped the Conservatives a few months ago, there's this guy, Justin Trudeau who is our new PM, you might have heard of him
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I brought receipts. Statistical breakdown:
http://x.rappler.com/x/neuroeconomi...vao-City-still-the-murder-capital-of-the-Phil
"Safest city" is hyperbole, but the progress in Davao was remarkable.
Duterte is left wing.Why are so many right-wing conservatives in power right now? Besides France, Germany, Canada, I cannot think of many countries that has a left leaning government. I'm very sad about the UK in particularly
It makes China and Russia look better. It's not NK/Saudi levels, but it seems that the Phillippines want to touch base with them
His Majesty
Banned
Why are so many right-wing conservatives in power right now? Besides France, Germany, Canada, I cannot think of many countries that has a left leaning government. I'm very sad about the UK in particularly
It makes China and Russia look better. It's not NK/Saudi levels, but it seems that the Phillippines want to touch base with them
Actually Duterte is left-wing.
EYEL1NER
Member
I was reading that link too. It's better than it used to be and isn't the worst city, but also not the safest. It's got quite a bit of crime and I wouldn't ever want to go there.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
How so? He doesn't seem liberal in his-tough on crime stance. Does he have other policies that make him a lefty?
I'm not refuting you there. I'm just saying screaming "kill drugs!" isn't going to solve anything either.
Oh, and a Reproductive Health law has been passed, but politicians keep on blocking implementation of said law, fyi.
Oh and Duterte simply claims he is a leftist. Whether he is one is another problem altogether, since he has been flipflopping on his platforms that dont have anything to do with Peace and Order. Case in point, he's come out to support land reform for the farmers, but, in less than 24 hours, he claimed that land reform would not solve anything and that he was suddenly against it. He also said that for his economic policies, he will just copy what the other candidates promised (said candidates are not leftists btw). (Fun note: in the same business summit where he said that, he took time to talk about consuming viagra.)
The only leftist move he's made so far is allowing the Communist Party of the Philippines to hold some positions in his Cabinet. This is a controversial move mainly because the party has an armed wing, the New People's Army, which has been terrorizing farmers and businessmen into paying them revolutionary taxes. My mom is from a region badly affected by the NPA, and she has plenty of stories to tell.
Oh, and Duterte came out in support of these revolutionary taxes. I have a source who even claimed that Duterte has been funelling public funds into thr armed group.
tearsintherain
Member
He is a self described socialist, most of his attacks are against corporate executives, he has suggested nationalizing some businesses, he wants to spend billions on infrastructure projects, has campaigned hard against replacing full time jobs with part time employees, and a ton of other left leaning socialist ideas similar to Venezuela, etc.
Truth be told though he is basically a demagogue, people are sick of crime and a corrupt sprawling bureaucracy filled with career politicians so his platform is basically "I will fix all this shit and fuck up anyone who gets in my way". We're seeing a bit of this world wide, as what politicians say and what people see in their day to day lives aren't matching up.
Oh, I never meant to make my post out to say that I am in favour of Duterte or his plans, I am not
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Duterte is as left-wing as Stalin in that he's economically left, but considers women to be inferior beings and is an authoritarian wannabe dictator who doesn't care about human rights.
Dicktatorship
Junior Member
And drug dealers, who are still human and not wild animals btw. Life is precious and powerful men are so insulated from it that they don't have the faintest idea of what it's like to bleed out from several gunshot wounds or to lose a son.
Lord Thrappleper The 49th
Member
So long as he gets shit done, i'm with you OP. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and this guy delivers no matter what the cost.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Yeah fuck the Philippines, putting that country up next to Israel on the "Don't Visit because People are Shit" list
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I mean, good luck.
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