wapplew
Member
Depend on how UWA handle those? Not sure they can fully utilize those hardware if a UWA design to work on multiple drastically different hardware configuration.
It might be just like PC this time. 6TF give you 6TF.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
Depend on how UWA handle those? Not sure they can fully utilize those hardware if a UWA design to work on multiple drastically different hardware configuration.
It might be just like PC this time. 6TF give you 6TF.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
That Carmack tweet was probably inaccurate at the time, and even more irrelevant with DX12.
I do believe that consoles have the ability to be designed for ultimate gaming performance in a way that PCs do not, though. Using GDDR5 as your entire allocation of RAM, or using ESRAM - as examples, will elevate the net performance beyond the hardware numbers compared with a PC.
I do believe that consoles have the ability to be designed for ultimate gaming performance in a way that PCs do not, though. Using GDDR5 as your entire allocation of RAM, or using ESRAM - as examples, will elevate the net performance beyond the hardware numbers compared with a PC.
Both Sony and Microsoft have proven a number of times they're perfectly capable of flopping with the best of them.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
So because they can also use the vanilla PS4, there is no viable appeal to any segment of of any market for an enhanced VR experience included with other features?
MilkyJoe
Member
Aint that the truth.
Bitch Pudding
Member
First of all he'll be saying that the customer now has choice if he wants to play PS4 games: He can either have an entry-level PS4 which plays all games (including VR), but doesn't support 4k output, OR if he wants to he can have a more powerful one with 4k output and better looking games for a $100* premium. Right now, it's take the one available or leave it. So basically, Sony and MS will be able to address at least two different customer segments at the same time.
*my guess
MilkyJoe
Member
Unless you already own a PS4 then it's a $400(?) premium
wake up and realise its been a dream
Backfoggen
Banned
You know this thread already went places when my post is taken seriously lol. Let's hope E3 ends this nightmare.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Until Sony commit to a hardware spec, and that spec is public knowledge, I don't expect Microsoft to announce how powerful their machine is.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
I think they will both release in fall 2017 but nice try.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Minus the price you get for your used old one. Did I mention that two years old PS4s (with one controller and one game) are sold on ebay for almost €270 these days here in Germany, and that you can have a new one including UC4 for €333?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I actually think MS might have the drop on Sony this time. With the dev kits already out there I can see how easy it would be for MS to up the ante. Unless the dev kits don't represent the final product. If I recall the devs only had 4gb of memory to play with on the PS4 and were surprised when Sony announced 8gb. I could be remembering that wrong though.
Actually I was replying to your joke with one of my own fully aware you were joking: but I guess it could seem like I was rebutting with "Sony too". It's hard adding to subtle posts I guess 🤔
Don't worry though: E3 will end this round of speculation (probably) but I suspect it may just kick off a whole new batch of it
Not even close. The margins on hardware are razor thin. There's absolutely no reason why they would push new hardware if they could push standard used PS4s instead.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
What makes GDDR5 better for main memory than DDR4?
I don't think he was implying that. I think he was emphasizing unified memory as being the real benefit.
Shtof
Member
This tweet was posted early 2014, so the x86 architecture had already entered the console space. I don't think anyone here is fit to challenge Carmack's words. The guy basically made more progress in 3D game engines than any other single human being.
knight_spg
Neo Member
They would push new hardware to get trade-ins of older hardware, to then sell them for even more money...
That would mean that current multiplatform games require twice the power of a console to run a game the same. Which is not true.
Also this guy doesn't do 3d engines anymore, not that it would be of importance in this case anyway.
Also: consoles now are pc's. Through and through.
Freeman
Banned
He was probably referring to a best case scenario, which would be a game heavily optimize for consoles and not a multiplataform release that is rarely optimized for anything.
martino
Member
yes it was in specific context in a discution.
The out of context extrapolation is false and no data can back it up.
Data prove more that thoses conditions are rarely met.
Not to sound skeptical.
If this is true, this just sounds like history repeating itself:
-the dreamcast was killer hardware against the psx and N64
-the first xbox was more powerful than the gamecube and PS2
With astronomical dev costs for AAA games, you better bet only first-party MS studios would make use of these theoretical 6 TF.
If anything AAA 3rd-parties "must" go multi-platform.
If this is true, this just sounds like history repeating itself:
-the dreamcast was killer hardware against the psx and N64
-the first xbox was more powerful than the gamecube and PS2
With astronomical dev costs for AAA games, you better bet only first-party MS studios would make use of these theoretical 6 TF.
If anything AAA 3rd-parties "must" go multi-platform.
I love when people pull things from their ass with no basis.
LukasTaves
Member
Yeah, and it really showed on previous generations XD
BTW, you do realize than currently sony is developing consoles the same way Ms has always been? By using semi custom off shelf parts instead of esoteric hardware that clearly wasn't working for sony. So their expertise in developing hardware is largely irrelevant in this comparison, specially when they are both buying from the same supplier.
Shtof
Member
As long as all platforms are x86 it will be no problem to make use of a extra couple tflops. But be certain that Sony, whether they lose market or take market against their competitors, are going to have another Playstation ready in tops 3 years after Neo. The introduction of x86 marked the end of console generations. There is no need for console generations anymore. Porting between PS4 and Neo is going to be very simple compared to say PS3 to PS4. Incredibly simple really.
Shtof
Member
It worked very well for Sony with PS1 and PS2. And Xbox 360 wasn't exactly off-the-shelf, even if PS3 was even more 'exotic'.
Leyasu
Banned
They have nothing to lose on the vr front so I doubt that they will try to hard sell it. Apart from saying that it will be compatible with OR and others. Although that is just speculation
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I'm assuming that there's no way a bit of a spec bump for an XB1 slim (to make it on par with OG PS4) would make it capable of supporting Oculus VR? I know the rumours we were talking about earlier are completely unsubstantiated, and without merit, but I'm just pondering the capabilities of a slightly bumped up 4K-compatible slim (with a massive jump to Scorpio next year).
LukasTaves
Member
UWA offers the possibility of native low level code (C/C++ and DX12 with architecture/device specific optimizations).
UWA offers compatibility by providing a common API on all that, alongside tools and libraries that ease scalable development.
They should perform relatively the same, because now you can have lower drive api on Pc as well, so effectively one of the advantages of console is gone (The other is that since it's a discrete configuration settings can be fine tuned to look the best while keeping the target framerate)
LukasTaves
Member
I'd argue that it started not working very well for sony on Ps2 era. The hardware was difficult to develop and to keep the same philosophy behind it so they had to resort to IBM to help improve the design. The also hit the end of the road on their custom gpus and went for other vendors as well.
360 wasn't exactly off shelf but it wasn't a completely new design, it had customizations on designs that both AMD and IBM had laying around. They kinda did it again on xbone and the esram, though this time it was them who missed their marks/goals.
Wait, when did a rumor start about the Slim being 2TF?
Link please.
I don't think there are any such rumors. Xbox One Slim is said to be the same hardware performance as original Xbox One.
1.31 TFlops.
It's higher latency, so that means your CPU will consume less electricity while it's stalled waiting for a memory fetch to complete.
Seriously though? There's NOTHING at all that makes GDDR5 better for a CPU than DDR4.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
What rumor?
Backfoggen
Banned
Someone in this thread said something. It's not been talked about anywhere else.
I'm sure that pricing will hold up once a new, more powerful version is announced with a release date and the market floods with old ones.
Lister
Banned
No, Carmack is one of the most knowledgeable 3D pieline engineers out there. But that doesn't stop idiots from taking what he says out of context. I hope you're not one of those idiots.
He was specifically comparing the old DX9 API and it's CPU performance. He was basically saying: in certian scenarios you can squeeze out twice the performance of similar CPU + GPU PC hardware *running DX9/DX10*.
That quote, is, to anyone with half a brain and access to the internet, obviously not accurate to anything happening today or even years ago now.
DX11 significantly improved multi-threading when workign with the 3D API as well as overall CPU performance. It modernized the GPU API's enough that while there is still a much higher hit on the CPU on PC, specially when it comes to draw calls, the situaiton is just not anything like 2x on the GPU. Just look at that 750ti go! Dx11 means, so logn as you have somethign akin to an i3 or better, your GPU will perform about as well as if it was inside a PS4 (lower end CPu's might not have enough grunt for modern games however and 3D performance is likely to drop).
Enter DX12/Vulkan, and you are very close to parity in terms of possible optimizations on both platforms thanks to a thinner dirver and direct access to GPU resources (not to mention a much lower CPU hit on drawcalls). With these new API's the CPU hit is further reduced, making the quote officially outdated.
So the quote is pretty much irrelevant today, has been irrelevant for many years now, and yet I guarantee some idiot will still bring it up 5 years from now.
I feel like the Sony wants the neo to be more for new customers who want to buy a ps4 already and Scorpio feels like it would be for both Xbox owners and maybe some new customers.
So Sony is just pushing the ps4 ecosystem forward while not trying to alienate current ps4 owners, which is why the rumors stated that devs did not have to try to market the new hardware. The neo is just going to have to depend on its price, and if its not much different to the vanilla ps4 then it will sell to those who already wanted to buy a ps4, that havent yet because the game they want is not out yet.
The scorpio on the other hand seems like they want people to feel like its a reset but launching 6 months to a year later would put them at a huge disadvantage because the want to steal away market share and if there is the ps4k and ps4 vs the xone on the market for 6 months its just going to be harder for the scorpio to penetrate like its supposed to.
So Sony is just pushing the ps4 ecosystem forward while not trying to alienate current ps4 owners, which is why the rumors stated that devs did not have to try to market the new hardware. The neo is just going to have to depend on its price, and if its not much different to the vanilla ps4 then it will sell to those who already wanted to buy a ps4, that havent yet because the game they want is not out yet.
The scorpio on the other hand seems like they want people to feel like its a reset but launching 6 months to a year later would put them at a huge disadvantage because the want to steal away market share and if there is the ps4k and ps4 vs the xone on the market for 6 months its just going to be harder for the scorpio to penetrate like its supposed to.
They give you a Scorpio for free for calling it first.
wapplew
Member
Have Polygon write another leaks about new Scorpio target hardware at 12TF.
Apparently you can say any random bullshit as long as you add #creativechatter at the end.
The name of this thread should be #CreativeChatter...or least for the OT for Xbox E3 briefing
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Welp, Xbox offloaded to Game for £125. Don't disappoint me MS by not announcing Win 10 Crackdown!
Agreed.
jeff_rigby
Banned
This would be Polaris using DDR3/4 and EDRAM with just enough GPU to use the added memory bandwidth and compression Polaris offers. About PS4 performance.
XB1 Scorpio would be middle to late 2017 using HBM2 and more expensive.
I have a feeling you'll be disappointed. Gears 4 hasn't been announced as a Windows 10 game either and I don't expect it to become one now. I think everything announced moving forward will be Xbox/Windows 10 but if it didn't have a legitimate version announced to begin with, I don't see them forcing devs to also build for PC with projects originally announced as an Xbox One game. The reason why, see how Quantam Break turned out?