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AP: Clinton clinches Democratic Nomination
- Thread starter Macho Madness
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whyamihere
Banned
Actually, it's about ethics in tokenism.
BotoxAgent
Member
Sanders is a professional protester lacking in real policy substance. Nothing more.
People aren't voting for her just because she is a woman... Jesus.. being the first major female Presidential nominee in history is inspiring simply because of what it means for women in general in the United States. It hasn't happened before. It really is breaking down barriers. Little girls will be able to look at the past and say "I can do that." It's not just about Clinton. It's the same for Margaret Thatcher for the UK even if she despised. It's a great moment for women.
If only that's all he was. He's actually the political equivalent of Eron Gjoni, inciting harassment against any member of the "establishment" (which includes journalists, Planned Parenthood, and HIV activists).
Bear Force One
Banned
I'm sure Trump appointing SCOTUS judges will do so so much for social issues. Good plan.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Later parts? Like him him whipping out West at every possible juncture and naming him to the convention? Like going after Barney Frank, who is someone who has actually fought for civil rights and financial reform, going after HIV/AIDS activists? At best he is tone deaf. Why would I expect him to do a complete 360 from his campaign at this stage?
Bernie hasn't shown a willingness to stand up to tough questions without walking away. Hell, he hasn't faced any attacks on his past from either the GOP or Hillary, he is completely unvetted for the national stage.
benjipwns
Banned
Between The Donald and Carly, Donald's the honest, open-minded, well managed and less embarrassing of the two.
BotoxAgent
Member
yeah, and I hate how all he has been doing lately is spread cynicism and disillusionment from the process simply because he is losing--people are being lied to and will only come out disappointed and angry and will probably not be motivated to vote anymore. I certainly hope he doesn't represent the future of the democratic party....otherwise the party is looking bleak. He is trash.
Voting Bernie in the primaries is voting trump now? Lol
This is true. I do like Clinton in part because she is the potential first woman president. But, if she was the female version of Trump in the exact place he is now, hell no would I vote for her, and I'm pretty sure most current Hillary supporters wouldn't either.
because a 360 is 1 revolution
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
wow it's weird that hillary has been campaigning against him for a year and didn't bother to vet him.
DrROBschiz
Member
Because he is losing?
Corruption and Money in Politics has been a long standing battle well before Bernie hit the stage and has been instrumental in blocking A LOT of attempted policy changes
Just ask Obama
Oh sure they've had stuff, but they've had no reason to bloody their knuckles in this fight. It's been kid gloves the whole way through.
No it isn't. Hillary didn't go negative because it hurts her favorables to do so. Doesn't mean the GOP would hold off on Socialist Bernie.
While I'm not a fan of his behavior during the latter parts of his campaign, using "spread cynicism and disillusionment from the process" is only a reasonable complaint against him if people don't actually have valid reasons to be cynical and disillusioned.
And_Gignac
Member
Lol he is trash because he is acting like any normal losing candidate. At least he is not making assassination innuendos like Hillary R. Clinton did in 2008.
Some of you guys are so lacking in perspective.
Great CNN pic
What David Lynch movie is this from?
lol damn
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
real life.
benjipwns
Banned
It's fitting that you bring this up considering RFK was shot after winning the California primary.
The red curtains in the background? It's obvious that it's from the new Twin Peaks.
- Red Curtains
- Bright monotone outfit (Blue and Velvet-like)
- Weird dark lighting
- Old person making a weirdly excited face
Everything is wonderfully Lynchian.
Amazing. Bravo
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
He's been handled with kid gloves. Praising Latin American dictators, praising Stalin bread lines, honeymooning in the USSR, wanting to abolish the CIA, wanting a state takeover of utilities without compensation, Chairman of the VA oversight committee when vets were dying due to an administrative scandal, his views on charities, possibly using his influence as a Senator to get a loan for his wife's college.... There is a literal mountain of skeletons that hasn't been used and the GOP has admitted to not attacking him in hopes of running against him.
bobbychalkers
Member
Damn....
DrROBschiz
Member
So we stack up these proposed cons next to Hillary's proposed misdeeds... Than vet each claim and compare where do we end up?
Take the NY Daily News interview. She used it in fundraising emails but never really attacked him for it on the campaign trail or debate stage. The only real label she tried to put on him was that he was a "single issue candidate". I wouldn't call myself a humongous Hillary person but it seems to be like she went through this campaign largely on the defensive and rarely attacked to not offend his voters. I wouldn't say it would be unfair to say Sanders went largely unscathed by the Clinton campaign for strategic reasons.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
She's actually faced them over the last 20 years, she has the scars from them to prove it. Bernie can't take a tough question without walking away. He has shown repeatedly an inability to confront his own issues.
The point isn't comparing the merits of the candidates. It's that one Dem candidate has had literally every claim hurled at her from both sides, including conspiracy theories from the 90's, while the other candidate has gone largely untouched by either side and we don't know how he would do when those attacks would come.
BotoxAgent
Member
Corruption and money in politics I get. But squarely in the context of the primaries and voting I mean, where there are cries of voter suppression and fraud being used by the DNC which are largely unfounded.
There are some valid reasons for sure, but the crazy reasons are rather troubling
minor effort
Banned
My god
whyamihere
Banned
This is an A+ post.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah its a mess. We have a collection of anecdotes, some outright official investigations finding nothing (has every district been investigated?), and some other issues on the convoluted process on a whole
But.. he knew what he was getting into. Maybe he wants to be a democratic candidate for obvious reasons.
Strategically maybe this was his only choice. To challenge this very system emphatically
benjipwns
Banned
A lot of this has to do with the fact that people don't understand they aren't standard elections, but public participation in the internal decision making process of two private corporations.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yup
If anything Bernie's tactics are a circus to kick up dirt because.. thanks to precedent.. these parties have owned every election for decades
What a world we would live in if we say 20% splits amongst mutliple general election candidates...
But I wonder if thats pretty much impossible in this country... or any country..
You know what really stopped positive change? Teaparty gains in 2010/2014.
You can not wish away the structural problems of getting things done in congress. You need to elect anyone with even a minor inking of helping you so that they can be caucused into a governing coalition and pass legislation.
When Obama barely had the numbers he got healthcare done, a progressive centerpiece sought after for 50 years. Imagine if people kept voting and he had filibuster proof majorities? A house not full of do nothing obstructionists.
The perfect can not be the enemy of the good; not in our systems. Especially when the left can't keep their eye on the prize and go back apathy so easily.
To be fair, Big Money from Koch-likes were a large part of the rise of Tea Party candidates. Having the funding to beat both Democrats and establishment Republicans was very helpful in electing our current Congress.
BotoxAgent
Member
yes, that too
I wouldn't call the final version of Obamacare either something that's been sought after for 50 years.
thestopsign
Member
I need to start taking a drink every time I hear the phrase "kid's gloves" from someone on here. I mean it's totally true in regards to how Hillary has treated Bernie, but it's become a cliche phrase at this point.
She could have gone hard in the paint on how he was a socialist idealist who has never accomplished anything that he advocates for or something along those lines. The Burlington College mess could have been a huge attack on him too.
She could have gone hard in the paint on how he was a socialist idealist who has never accomplished anything that he advocates for or something along those lines. The Burlington College mess could have been a huge attack on him too.
Bear Force One
Banned
Who said that?
benjipwns
Banned
Things like the delegate counts and superdelegates and so on seem anti-democratic, and they are. But the parties aren't saying "hey, pick our nominee for us" so much as they're saying "who do you think should be our nominee?" And then they'll consider that decision before accepting it. This gives them a safety valve for if some wackjob starts winning.
The GOP had a situation where their "safety valve" wasn't enough to stop Trump because the party was divided, there were too many candidates, Trump was winning by too much, they implemented short-sighted rules in the past, etc. AND they never had an willing and acceptable alternative.
In 2008 and 2016, the "safety valve" has mattered in the Democratic primaries because it's become a two person race where the superdelegates can potentially control the balance. In 2004 and 2000, it didn't matter because a single candidate obliterated the table after NH.
What some of the rabid Sanders fanatics can't seem to accept is that the superdelegates when they do vote, will not vote for Sanders for a multitude of reasons, but foremost is that it's their Party, their rules and their process. They'll take into account the Sanders surprise groundswell because it's good business, but they don't have to listen to your "votes" anymore than Microsoft has to listen to your change.org petition about Windows 10's incoherent auto color schemes.
The GOP had a situation where their "safety valve" wasn't enough to stop Trump because the party was divided, there were too many candidates, Trump was winning by too much, they implemented short-sighted rules in the past, etc. AND they never had an willing and acceptable alternative.
In 2008 and 2016, the "safety valve" has mattered in the Democratic primaries because it's become a two person race where the superdelegates can potentially control the balance. In 2004 and 2000, it didn't matter because a single candidate obliterated the table after NH.
What some of the rabid Sanders fanatics can't seem to accept is that the superdelegates when they do vote, will not vote for Sanders for a multitude of reasons, but foremost is that it's their Party, their rules and their process. They'll take into account the Sanders surprise groundswell because it's good business, but they don't have to listen to your "votes" anymore than Microsoft has to listen to your change.org petition about Windows 10's incoherent auto color schemes.
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