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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]

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Terrible tragedy.

RIP to all those who lost their lives and my prayers to their families. My prayers for a speedy recovery to those not killed by this hateful man.

Saw a picture of blood donation offices with huge lines of people trying to help by donating blood. Good. More helping, less hating.
 
Unless ISIS is providing passports, training, money, etc. it's not really ISIS.

I don't think it's that simple. If their message has reached a guy and he uses that message as the reason why he does something I think it's fair to take responsibility for it. Even if they didn't spell out every step of action he should take, their influence may have been the primary influencer for him acting out now. I don't mind another reminder that the group needs to be vaporized.
 
I highly doubt this attack would be sanctioned by ISIS.
ISIS hates America and consider it the enemy. ISIS also believe homosexuality is a cancer that destroys society. Attacking homosexuals in an Islamic country makes sense to them because to them it is akin to curing that society from an illness.
An ISIS member killing homosexuals in America, in their twisted mind, would be like giving medicine to the enemy.

I believe that gunman did what he did for his own crazy reasons and is only using ISIS to justify it.

Sure they'll claim responsibility after the fact, but if it were up to them, he'd attack a hospital or some other place.
 
Can we quit blaming guns now and focus on our enemy here?

Remember, Paris has strict gun control laws and ISIS still pulled off a horrific attack there.

I, for one, would like to be able to defend myself when the time comes, and I don't want to have to rejoin the military, join the police force or a national guard to do so.

So you're saying you'd be able to accurately target and shoot the gunman in a dark and crowded dance club? Even if 10 other people get the same idea and pull out guns too?
 
1. Restrict people on the terrorist watchlist from access to guns.
2. Declare war on ISIS
3. Start or keep interrogating known ISIS sympathizers
4. Invade Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS.
5. Keep those countries for ourselves as a deterrent and/or terrorist magnet to protect the homeland.
6. Anti-radical Islam advertising campaign. Show the disgusting acts on TV, and work to de-radicalize sympathizers through education.

So you are for removal of the rule of law? Due process?

You actually think invading Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS wouldn't cause another ISIS ilk to spawn. How do you think ISIS came into existence? Keep them for ourselves, yep, that surely won't cause further resentment. Jesus.
 
I said this:

Sandy Hook was the point of no return for this country. It's my view that literally nothing will convince certain Americans and the GOP to make changes to our current system. We could have a gunman go into an office building and slaughter 500 people and nothing would be done.

Because this...

France has some of the toughest gun laws and that didn't stop the Paris or Charlie Hebdo attacks did it ?

I didn't realize Paris had mass shootings everyday.

Neither does the US

....is the type of logic we're dealing with (I'm obviously not referring to Gigglepoo).
 
No, and honestly even is homosexuality is a sin in the Bible I challenge anyone to find another event were more than 50 homosexuals were killed by a christian nut or any other religion that is not Islam. You may have to whip out your medieval history books or do some mental gymnastics to include the holocaust.

This is some real cherry picking. The group in this country most hostile to homosexuals when it comes to both civil rights and safety is hardcore Christians and angry young men.

France has some of the toughest gun laws and that didn't stop the Paris or Charlie Hebdo attacks did it ?

Statistics!

5. Keep those countries for ourselves as a deterrent and/or terrorist magnet to protect the homeland.

...in addition to all the other reasons why this would be stupid, such an action would undoubtedly result in hundreds of thousands of deaths.
 
1. Restrict people on the terrorist watchlist from access to guns.
2. Declare war on ISIS
3. Start or keep interrogating known ISIS sympathizers
4. Invade Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS.
5. Keep those countries for ourselves as a deterrent and/or terrorist magnet to protect the homeland.
6. Anti-radical Islam advertising campaign. Show the disgusting acts on TV, and work to de-radicalize sympathizers through education.
You're gonna run into some serious problems between #5 and #6.
 
I highly doubt this attack would be sanctioned by ISIS.
ISIS hates America and consider it the enemy. ISIS also believe homosexuality is a cancer that destroys society. Attacking homosexuals in an Islamic country makes sense to them because to them it is akin to curing that society from an illness.
An ISIS member killing homosexuals in America, in their twisted mind, would be like giving medicine to the enemy.

I believe that gunman did what he did for his own crazy reasons and is only using ISIS to justify it.

Well ISIS have just claimed responsibility for it so you're wrong.

I understand not being presumptuous because we want to avoid stereotyping, but there's a point where we really have to entertain the possibility that this is a religiously motivated attack. Some point after hearing that the guy with 'islamist leanings', after pledging allegiance to the Islamic State, killed 50 homosexuals, as fundamentalist Muslims believe the Quran instructs them to, after all of which ISIS has taken credit for his actions.
 
Exactly, acts of mass terrorism are rare. Literally everyday gun violence in America is way too accessible. Do we even need to bring up how many Americans are gunned down by fellow Americans versus actual terrorist?
This was an important talk point in a recent Obama speech about mass shootings, how the US governent spent billions of dollars to fight terrorism while millions of Americans were gunned by fellow Americans. Pretty strong point that I have never seen adressed.
 
1. Restrict people on the terrorist watchlist from access to guns.
2. Declare war on ISIS
3. Start or keep interrogating known ISIS sympathizers
4. Invade Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS.
5. Keep those countries for ourselves as a deterrent and/or terrorist magnet to protect the homeland.
6. Anti-radical Islam advertising campaign. Show the disgusting acts on TV, and work to de-radicalize sympathizers through education.

how does this help us address terrorism/mass murders coming from the white male segment of our population, which represents the majority of terrorists in America? They have no affiliation with Islam or Islamic terrorism.
 
1. Restrict people on the terrorist watchlist from access to guns.
2. Declare war on ISIS
3. Start or keep interrogating known ISIS sympathizers
4. Invade Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS.
5. Keep those countries for ourselves as a deterrent and/or terrorist magnet to protect the homeland.
6. Anti-radical Islam advertising campaign. Show the disgusting acts on TV, and work to de-radicalize sympathizers through education.

1. Tried, Republicans shot it down
2. Symbolic declaration that means nothing
3. Just going to wipe our ass with civil rights?
4. Are you out of your fucking mind?
5. It appears you are
6. OK, you have no idea what you are talking about
 
You are aware you can quote a bunch of extreme views from the bible also ? There is even a YouTube video of ppl reading them to ppl telling them it's the Quran then ppl go how barbaric then they're told it's the bible . If you want a religion without violence in writings maybe try Buddhism . The point is ppl have realize that you don't interpret them word for word . Admittedly this reviewed interpretation needs to happen more in Islam . But then you have places like Saudi with money ...

That is exactly my point . But the problem is it doesn't at all. Because people assume that power of scripture of bible is and as Quran as seen in this thread and your first sentence.

Questioning Quran as 100% perfect absolute word of God is something I don't believe is possible. Just because it's evident in Christianity doesn't mean it will happen in Islam also.

I hope it does. But you can already see in this thread of people in denial and wanting to shut down that conversation
 
I highly doubt this attack would be sanctioned by ISIS.
ISIS hates America and consider it the enemy. ISIS also believe homosexuality is a cancer that destroys society. Attacking homosexuals in an Islamic country makes sense to them because to them it is akin to curing that society from an illness.
An ISIS member killing homosexuals in America, in their twisted mind, would be like giving medicine to the enemy.

I believe that gunman did what he did for his own crazy reasons and is only using ISIS to justify it.

Sure they'll claim responsibility after the fact, but if it were up to them, he'd attack a hospital or some other place.

Your logic is certainly solid to those of us who aren't insane, but we're talking about ISIS here.

As for claiming responsibility after the fact, unless I am mistaken they never really claim responsibility for attacks that they weren't responsible for. San Bernardino, for example.
 
2. Declare war on ISIS
3. Start or keep interrogating known ISIS sympathizers
4. Invade Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS.

Yeah, you know this actually isn't possible, right? I know it's great to have a hero fantasy and imagine "killing all the evil guys" but, you do realize that there's no possible way to do this with something like ISIS in 2016. Right?
 
As a Christian with a gay brother, who goes to clubs alot, my heart sank heavy, holding back tears, when I read the news. They did not deserve this, please someone fix these problems in our country... Enough.
 
Here is what I was referring to earlier

http://news3lv.com/news/nation-worl...m-beach-treasure-coast-residents-ex-fbi-agent

WEST PALM BEACH (CBS12) — A pro-Isis group has released a hit list with the names of more than 8,000 peoplemostly Americans.

More than 600-people live in Florida, and one security expert believes that many of those targeted live in Palm Beach County and on the Treasure Coast.

The "United Cyber Caliphate" that hacked U.S. Central Command, 54,000 Twitter accounts and threatened President Barack Obama is the same pro-Isis group that's reportedly created a "kill list" with the names, addresses and emails of thousands of civilian Americans.

Reports of the list came to light online when Vocativ reported the list was shared via the encrypted app, Telegram, and called on supporters to kill.

Former FBI agent-turned lawyer Stuart Kaplan says the threat is especially alarming, because the people on this list are civilians who don't have the security necessary to protect themselves.

"It's going to create some hysteria," he said.

Kaplan believes civilians from our community are on the list.

"I would suspect a head of a hospital or, perhaps, a local community leader. Those are the individuals that may appear on the list--or just a local banker or local school teacher--someone who, for some reason, was in the public eye."

Kaplan is concerned the list will inspire "lone wolf" style attacks.

"If in fact a sympathizer gets ahold of this list and is readily able to identify you as being his neighbor and, then, decides (because they're a sympathizer) to go out and do something horrific to you, there is no way to calculate the potential or to prevent that."

The list has not yet been made public.

We reached out to the FBI, the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office and Martin County Sheriff's Office to see how credible they view the threat and what action they might be taking.

We are awaiting their response.

According to the Martin County Sheriffs office,the FBI is aware of this and the agency will work closely with the Joint-Terrorism Task Force to keep citizens safe

I'm no expert on the area, but might explain why he drove as far as he did. Maybe someone there was among the targets?
 
Sandy Hook was the point of no return for this country. It's my view that literally nothing will convince certain Americans and the GOP to make changes to our current system. We could have a gunman go into an office building and slaughter 500 people and nothing would be done.

sadly, this is my line of thinking as well...

watching CNN right now and they say the gunman was in there for 3 hours!?!?!?!? where was law enforcement?

(please correct me if I'm wrong)
 
These fuckers are hoping that we destroy the country from the inside by voting in Trump.

Most of the world's biggest maniacs, Putin, Le Pen, Kim Jong Un, and no doubt Baghdadi want to see Trump win in November. Americans really need to start asking themselves, WHY this is.
 
1. Restrict people on the terrorist watchlist from access to guns.
2. Declare war on ISIS
3. Start or keep interrogating known ISIS sympathizers
4. Invade Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS.
5. Keep those countries for ourselves as a deterrent and/or terrorist magnet to protect the homeland.

6. Anti-radical Islam advertising campaign. Show the disgusting acts on TV, and work to de-radicalize sympathizers through education.

You want to create more groups like ISIS, because that's how you do it.

Also, the minute you do steps 2-5, step 6 no longer works.
 
A terrible act. Sorry for those involved.

When are someone going to have the courage to make changes to gun laws and policies? What is the limit? 100 killed? I really hope the people start to make demands for some changes sooner or later.

There is no logical reason for any person to have access to automatic assault rifles that can easily kill 20+ people in less than 30s.
 
sadly, this is my line of thinking as well...

watching CNN right now and they say the gunman was in there for 3 hours!?!?!?!? where was law enforcement?

(please correct me if I'm wrong)

It was a hostage standoff. Law enforcement was on the scene mere moments after the first shots were fired.
 
Do we know yet how he got the AR-15?

bought it at the gun shop? It's not any more difficult to get an AR-15 than it is to get a Glock handgun. It's a semi-automatic weapon. If you have the $1200-$1500, you can go get one with a 3-day or so check too (assuming you're living in a state that hasn't banned them or some such).
 
Instead of doing the sensible thing like putting restrictions on gun ownership, we will instead implement trillion dollar surveillance networks, ban Muslims from traveling, and beef up the incompetent airport security.

As long as I get to keep my hobby.

I'd just like to chime in and say that owning a gun is a right. Dismissing it as a hobby is disgusting. It's a fundamental American right and until we start there, no one from 'the right' is going to have a conversation with you.

This is not a guns right case, this is a Muslim / terrorist issue.
 
I assume he bought it from a gun store. Not like it's a hard thing to do.
To put this into perspective:

http://www.citylab.com/crime/2016/01/map-gun-dealers-starbucks/423801

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives reports that 64,747 licensed gun dealers (defined here as gun shops, pawnbrokers, or individual sellers) existed in the U.S. as of December 2015. But that raw number alone might not mean much to you. So a new mapping project by data viz company 1point21 Interactive tries to contextualize this number by comparing it to something all Americans know exists in abundance: Starbucks.

”Looking at the Federal Firearms License data, the first question I asked myself was, ‘Is that a lot—it sounds like a lot?’” Brian Beltz, who helped put the project together, tells CityLab. “That's why we chose to compare it to something that everyone knows and has a reputation of being on every corner.”

In their analysis, Beltz and colleagues found that there were six gun dealers in the U.S for every Starbucks (of which there are 10,843, according to 2013 data). Gun sellers also outnumber grocery stores (37,716 in 2014), McDonald’s (14,350 in 2014), and total coffee shops (55,246 in 2016) in the U.S. If gun collectors, manufacturers, and importers were all counted as gun dealers, the total number balloons to 138,659—far more than, say, the number of public schools in the country (98,328 in 2011-12).
 
1. Restrict people on the terrorist watchlist from access to guns.
2. Declare war on ISIS
3. Start or keep interrogating known ISIS sympathizers
4. Invade Iraq and Syria to destroy ISIS.
5. Keep those countries for ourselves as a deterrent and/or terrorist magnet to protect the homeland.
6. Anti-radical Islam advertising campaign. Show the disgusting acts on TV, and work to de-radicalize sympathizers through education.

going back to colonialism with number 5. Absolutely disgusting ideas, SMH.
 
A terrible act. Sorry for those involved.

When are someone going to have the courage to make changes to gun laws and policies? What is the limit? 100 killed? I really hope the people start to make demands for some changes sooner or later.

There is no logical reason for any person to have access to automatic assault rifles that can easily kill 20+ people in less than 30s.

An AR-15 isn't automatic.

Fully-automatic guns are already effectively banned in the U.S.
 
sadly, this is my line of thinking as well...

watching CNN right now and they say the gunman was in there for 3 hours!?!?!?!? where was law enforcement?

(please correct me if I'm wrong)

they were trying to figure out what to do and presumably negotiating. It was a hostage situation. I think it's fair to assume they didn't know he was still shooting people.
 
I'd just like to chime in and say that owning a gun is a right. Dismissing it as a hobby is disgusting. It's a fundamental American right and until we start there, no one from 'the right' is going to have a conversation with you.

This is not a guns right case, this is a Muslim / terrorist issue.

BULL.

SHIT.

I'm sick and tired of this rhetoric.

If this had been some random white guy, people like you would find another excuse as to why it's "not a guns rights case". It's getting fucking old.
 
A terrible act. Sorry for those involved.

When are someone going to have the courage to make changes to gun laws and policies? What is the limit? 100 killed? I really hope the people start to make demands for some changes sooner or later.

There is no logical reason for any person to have access to automatic assault rifles that can easily kill 20+ people in less than 30s.

Unfortunately no amount of laws will prevent someone that wants a gun from getting a gun.

I'm not saying that gun control doesn't need an overhaul, but it's just an unfortunate truth.
 
bought it at the gun shop? It's not any more difficult to get an AR-15 than it is to get a Glock handgun. It's a semi-automatic weapon. If you have the $1200-$1500, you can go get one with a 3-day or so check too (assuming you're living in a state that hasn't banned them or some such).

Or if you live in Texas you can get one without the waiting period or background check. Hug, your local gun show.

I'd just like to chime in and say that owning a gun is a right. Dismissing it as a hobby is disgusting. It's a fundamental American right and until we start there, no one from 'the right' is going to have a conversation with you.

This is not a guns right case, this is a Muslim / terrorist issue.

Owning a gun is not an absolute right, like every other right it can and should have some restrictions. MINIMAL RESTRICTIONS. We cannot get that because we don't worship at the gun fetish, its crazy.
 
France has some of the toughest gun laws and that didn't stop the Paris or Charlie Hebdo attacks did it ?
No, but they didn't buy their guns in France either. They smuggled them in from a black market six countries away as they hitched a ride on the chaos of an unprecedented refugee stream.

(that's not to say you can't get them in France either due to said black market six countries away, but getting enough and enough explosives will get you in dangerous proximity of Interpol a number of times who can bust your operation and everyone involved... instead of simply your local Walmart clerk who joyfully wishes you happy hunting with your one man private army arsenal)
 
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