HawksWinStanley
Member
What a prince.
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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]
- Thread starter dc89
- Start date
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What a prince.
everyday math
Banned
I'm sorry
How About No
Member
I'm sorry. RIP.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
My condolences to everyone affected, but I start to not care more and more after each of these occurrences. We still do absolutely nothing about them after each one is over.
Though now they have some shitty speculative panel that seems to just be filling air time.
Turned it off already.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
And some of my American friends wonder why I have a vested interest in Trump not being elected. This shit spreads to us like cancer.
That is awful, I'm so sorry.
That's really shitty. Condolences.
x Power Pad Death Stomp x
Member
Thanks gaf peeps. You may resume arguing now.
my condolences.
If you feel like you need somebody to speak to try and find somebody to talk with.
Common Knowledge
Member
Just found out the killer went to my high school. Jesus, I don't even know what to say to that.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
No thanks, I'm out; it doesn't change and all it does is trivialize loss. We get enough of it on 24/7 news.
I am so, so sorry. My condolences. Please and I'm serious, PM if there is any way to help
Hey you went to highschool with that other person who said that in this thread maybe!
Abstrusity
Member
Let me say this again, because I cannot stress it enough. The AR-15 as sold to civilians is normally chambered in the same round as most hunting rifles and is, in fact, used primarily as a hunting weapon. Ease of use, decent scope mounts, and polymer or steel bodies can reduce wear, reduce weight, reduce recoil, reduce missed shots or misplaced ones(so the animal doesn't suffer -- also, some of those are exclusive).
It can be said, since many hunting rifles operate in the exact same way, that a hunting rifle is overkill for self-defense, too. There'sa reason why it's so popular -- and yes, it could be because of how it looks.
Similarly, the AK-47 variants that civilians may own (until recently, IIRC), are limited to semi-automatic, a gas impingement rechamber, but it's less common in hunting, cheaper overall.
The reason that the AR-15 is so popular, and in that caliber, is because of surplus brass from the military's 5.56×45mm NATO cartridges. The weight of the completed round is different, as is the power, but most hunting is varmint hunting regardless -- not deer, but coyotes, wolves, boar, and things smaller than that.
So! The ammunition is cheap because the military doesn't reuse its old brass, making the AR-15 platform a simple choice for an effective hunting rifle. Action indistinguishable from most varmint rifles chambered in .223, stopping power indistinguishable, the only real difference is accuracy beyond 300m...well, at which point the round is a lot less effective, too.
What I'm saying is that the AR-15 is a suitable hunting rifle for most applications, and is in no way overkill if the quintessential hunting rifle isn't. It just looks scarier because it looks like something the military would use(due to the military's need for weapons that last).
Now, if you know nothing about guns, it's an easy call: Ban the AR-15. But if you DO know something about guns, and especially if you are a hunter, you'd know that banning the AR-15 is adjacent to banning the still-more-commonly-used standard rifles, and those aren't able to be modified as easily for the task at hand. It also enables slippery slope arguments to be used pretty effectively, because if you ban the AR-15 -- a weapon that functions the same when fired as any rifle chambered in .223 -- you could just as easily ban said "normal" rifles.
This is why there is so much derision and distrust amongst those who normally would be pushing for stronger restrictions and background checks. It's because, in banning the AR-15, you ban something that functions the same as a rifle they could probably pick up at Walmart for an eighth of the cost.
The better option, I think, would be restricting the types of chambers -- for instance, I'm pretty sure you can fire .223 through a 5.56x45mm chambered rifle, but not the other way around...unless you really like shrapnel, anyway. Reducing the availability of more powerful (read: heavier grain) ammunition would sufficiently limit its effectiveness in...this sort of thing, without doing the same for self-defense or varmint hunting.
.223 is not as powerful, and .308, used for deer hunting, is a powerful round mostly limited to bolt action rifles because of its length, and requirement for accuracy(requiring a longer barrel with different rifling, which also means it's harder to use anywhere in close quarters). Not many AR-15s with a round that powerful, and while they exist, they're also somewhere around 50% and higher more expensive, which limits its demand, too, before you even get to the fact that there's next to no aftermarket parts for them, only proprietary OEM.
On that topic, magazine capacity could also be legislated for rifles alone -- for a .223 rifle, it's possible to use a larger capacity magazine, and the AR-15 itself is no different. Dropping that down to 5 should be sufficient for hunting while also limiting its effectiveness outside of it. Some hunters, I'm sure, will grumble, but it's not drastically reducing their effectiveness. This also neatly ties up an active shooter situation should they be using the literally-any-.223-chambered-rifle-with-extended-magazines that they COULD be using, again, for cheaper than the cheapest AR-15.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I'm sorry for your loss.
HawksWinStanley
Member
This guy sure liked his selfies...
Why are people even talking about fully automatic weapons?
This is a prime example of why nothing gets done. Go off on tangents about weapons that aren't even used in acts of violence meanwhile 20K+ people will die to handguns. Lets talk about some collector spending 30 grand on a gun that will never be used in a crime.
This is a prime example of why nothing gets done. Go off on tangents about weapons that aren't even used in acts of violence meanwhile 20K+ people will die to handguns. Lets talk about some collector spending 30 grand on a gun that will never be used in a crime.
GregLombardi
Member
Very sorry. Wish you the best in your grief. We are there with you...I've found myself having trouble getting past the darkness today, but it will come in time for all. Just keep going.
Actually I have no problem at all with gun shows only allowing FFL dealers and getting rid of private sales at shows all together. I would even support all private gun sales having to go through an FFL transfer process. And I am 100% for background checks, and would have zero problems longer waiting periods and more thorough background checks.
I think you would find the vast majority of responsible gun owners would 100% support increased gun control measures. Especially ones that might actually keep guns away from people who would use them to harm others.
Sorry, meant 3k, not 30. Which is just the average of getting the tax stamps, having an attorney set up an NFA trust and a few years of renewal fees.
Prices have skyrocketed though, a shitty full auto MAC10 that you could get for 3k ten years ago goes for 20k.
On ArsTechnica discussions like this always gets derailed with people feverishly explaining the difference between cartridges and magazines, and why the article is invalid because the author mistook one for the other.
Anyone else read the New York Daily News article about shooter's dad's youtube show which was anti-US and pro-Taliban?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939
I like the idea of banning people of a certain realigion or ethnic background from the country is in the realm of discussion but the idea of banning guns is completely out of any kind of discussion.
The idea the country was funded on the freedom of religion not the freedom to own a gun.
The idea the country was funded on the freedom of religion not the freedom to own a gun.
Crazyorloco
Member
EDIT***
It does make me think maybe there's more to this story. The 2pm to 5pm time makes me think there must have been so much happening that is not being reported. Sad story all around.
It does make me think maybe there's more to this story. The 2pm to 5pm time makes me think there must have been so much happening that is not being reported. Sad story all around.
Darren870
Member
It was a post one page back that a mod already addressed. (Original post is gone)
Use your brain and don't post conspiracy theory bullshit.
everyday math
Banned
Don't post non-confirmed news. Someone posted the same thing a couple pages back.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Disgusting.
Even ignoring the moral argument, there's no realistic way to ban 1.6 billion people from all over the world(not just the middle east) from coming here.
Though, banning guns altogether is out of the question. Not at all realistic to think we can round up 300 million guns. Gun control is another matter.
Again, the Boston Marathon massacre was not perpetrated with guns but with pressure-cooker bombs. Tsarnaev was an Islamic nut too though.
I agree that some weapons may very well be too easy to obtain, but discussion of the ideologies that motivate these crimes and how to combat them should not be taboo.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
The sad thing is we'll forget about this incident and in a few more months another one will happen starting the same arguments again.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I've seen way more instances of people trying to shut down discussion of gun control than I have of people trying to shut down discussion of religious rights.
Yeah and what would banning them accomplish anyway?
I feel that saying religious right gives the left a free past as if there isnt plenty of them as well.
Well, discuss. How do you fight idelogies like that? What's your solution?
You guys have an extreme agenda that you are treating as a magic bullet. I don't.
17 Seconds
Banned
well duh
Corronchilejano
Member
You are misguided.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I, D.I.Ffense, am calling for a complete and total shutdown of all Muslims entering the United States until we can figure out what the hell is going on.
Kinda obvious this was an anti-gay bate crime. Doubt it ISIS had anything with this.
Gun control isn't extreme. Most people, including gun owners, want it. Gun banning is completely and utterly unrealistic for the U.S., but at least there's real-world examples of it causing a huge drop in murders.
But, again, what do you think there is to discuss about radical Islam? We're bombing the shit out of ISIS. We're drone striking Al Qaeda. We have special forces acting in various anti-terror operations across the globe. But this guy was born in the U.S. By all appearances at the moment he self-radicalized. And he obviously doesn't know much about his own religion as he's a shiite that pledged allegience to an organization that would behead him for being a shiite.
So, what do we do?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Nothing more extreme than "hey we do a monstrously irresponsible job of protecting people from irresponsible gun owners, maybe we should literally do one single thing to make them safer"
Also, maybe your reply to a post about how gun control discussion is shot down isn't to refer to people who believe in gun control as having an "extreme agenda"
Because we can't put our head in sand ?
These ideas need to be bring upfront so we can mock them
Or they could just be ignored and fade away into obscurity like they should.
partyphone
Banned
the extreme position is 50 people being murdered is a fine price to pay so I can keep playing with my toys.
RoninChaos
Member
America's government showed it doesn't care about gun control in any form when 20 kids were murdered and even though 90% of the country stood behind stricter gun control laws, Congress did NOTHING. If they don't care about kids you better fucking believe they don't care about any of the gay people that were killed in that club.
Being shot up doing what you would do in your day-to-day routine is what we are heading towards if congress doesn't do SOMETHING besides cash checks from the NRA. We won't see gun laws change until a few congress representatives have their families taken by gun violence. Once it happens to them we might see movement on this issue.
We need stricter gun laws. And I say that as a gun owner.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
are you asking for us to be your army
this isn't 4chan. Go ask them to be your army against this person. He's trash, his opinion is worthless, you're just giving him clicks which will inflate his ego.
Now if it was Ted Cruz or Trump spewing that rhetoric, yeah that's newsworthy. But some trash with an edgy opinion? Nah man.
That just gives them a persecution complex and further entrenches their beliefs, this guy and people that think like him aren't going to care about some youtube comments.
You didn't even attempt to do that though, you simply publicized it without significant commentary. All you're doing is spreading his message, you aren't beating anything down.
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