Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016
- Thread starter QuicheFontaine
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Who?You got chinnered.
I take it this poster is known (not to me) for 'satire' then?
Denk ik wel. We already pay more than we get. Ofcourse we get access to European markets but still, is it really worth it? Why not try to because another Norway or Switzerland? Norway some time ago decided not to join. I think they are smart enough to know what it would be.
TTIP is being negotiated via EU not each country. Plus, why is it so secret? EU currently is all about bureaucracy and stuff like LGBT, etc. All people are equal and we don't need some EU to tell us what to think. Definitely not for their money
milanbaros
Member?
I hope so! In the accumulation phase of saving (not retired) and want to buy into a bargain market.
You travel every week from France to Germany? Don't think so. It's more comfortable some times but If I could choose between lower prices and comfort two-three times a year I would go for lower prices.
Frankfurter
Member
That's much more expensive than in Germany, so apparently the Euro can't be the sole reason for that kind of a price increase.
That is why the tories are withdrawing, they believe people are voting about them not the referendum
ClosingADoor
Member
The European Council president has to be elected by a double majority:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Council
So no, Merkel didn't single handily appoint him. Other states wanted him too. Or if your argument is that the EU is just an extension of Germany and it does all that country wants, then I don't know where to start.
Those 150.000 seasonal workers don't get the same rights as the 150.000 actually living here, so I don't see the problem. If anything, the problem is that our current government is to too lax on checking where our money is going and where the abuse is taking place. See the mess at our tax office for example, where there are large shortages and the systems so outdated they can't even implement new rules in time with the laws being passed.
Norway and Switzerland take over most EU laws anyway. They also pay into certain funds costing them money.Denk ik wel. We already pay more than we get. Ofcourse we get access to European markets but still, is it really worth it? Why not try to because another Norway or Switzerland? Norway some time ago decided not to join. I think they are smart enough to know what it would be.
TTIP is being negotiated via EU not each country. Plus, why is it so secret? EU currently is all about bureaucracy and stuff like LGBT, etc. All people are equal and we don't need some EU to tell us what to think. Definitely not for their money
As an exporting country, of course joining the EU was worth it. It is not perfect and a lot can be better, but it is better then just being a nation at the sidelines.
TTIP is a trade agreement. Those are negotiated in secret all the time. It will not be passed in secret.
I don't get your argument about "stuff like LGTB". What does that have to do with anything?
You are jumping all over the place and have no clear message. That is the problem in the Britain Leave stuff also. One point gets refuted, just ignore it and jump to the next soundbite to further the agenda.
Work has been genuinely scary this past few days. 2008 feelings over again. We even had some brokers pitch us views that equities may open limit down next Friday. 15% 2 day drop. Even flight to safety names like BT got torched today.
I can not believe the country is actually going to willfully vote to fuck itself over.
I can not believe the country is actually going to willfully vote to fuck itself over.
PJV3
Member
Worryingly, I don't think Labour are able to take up the mantle properly either. Even if you set aside their current malaise, they've been as culpable as the Tories for a lot of the problems in this country and now arnt trusted by the working class.
Captain Chaos
Member
I'm very interested in USD/GBP rate as in my work I buy from China in USD and this referendum is a total headache. I have put off some of the payment installments for manufacturing till after 23rd.
God I hope the country is sensible and votes to remain in.
PJV3
Member
Yeah, Cameron and Osborne went straight for doomsday and nobody believes them, the fear is gone.
Fernando Fernandez
Member
After their performances over the past year, sadly I can't blame the public.
The boys that cried doom, fucked it up. As you said they were to quickly shouting crazy worse case scenarios.
When you tell people there could be a new world war, people should always call you out on it....
Both sides have been silly, but the 'world is literally going to end' rhetoric from the remain camp has rightly backfired
BT will be quite heavily negatively affected by this country leaving the EU. From lack of access to European Telecoms Single Market reform which is coming, Global Services division and downturn in B2B which will impact a lot of their investment focus. BT as a company did not come out against Brexit for shits and giggles.
But I'm sure they're all making this up. Yep that's right. For shits and giggles.
That's not correct BTW at all.
The economic arguments worked really well - when Leave was talking economics as well. Two weeks ago remain was increasing its vote lead, and even traditional conservative voters were shifting over. When the argument is about economics, Remain wins.
The problem was, Leave changed tactics and decided to just go straight for naked racism and lies. Economic arguments don't work against claims of 10 million Turkish people flooding the borders, and Remain doesn't really have an answer for it because no-one anywhere in the world does. It's a naked appeal to people's lower, base instincts and it works.
Captain Chaos
Member
6 o'clock news on 22nd we need to get HRH out with an unequivocal remain message.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-labour-heartland-backing-brexit-south-wales
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...abour-tells-core-voters-but-no-ones-listening
In the midst of all it's bullshit, the guardian buried it's most reflective articles.
Millions (and seemingly the swing voters) don't give a shit about threats of economic calamity and shit future prospects... Because they're already living it. They've been ignored, insulted and spoken down to by state and media for nearly 20 years now.
This isn't just about the EU, this a perfect storm of anger forming from decades of mismanagement and fuck ups. Whichever result, status quo simply cannot continue.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...abour-tells-core-voters-but-no-ones-listening
In the midst of all it's bullshit, the guardian buried it's most reflective articles.
Millions (and seemingly the swing voters) don't give a shit about threats of economic calamity and shit future prospects... Because they're already living it. They've been ignored, insulted and spoken down to by state and media for nearly 20 years now.
This isn't just about the EU, this a perfect storm of anger forming from decades of mismanagement and fuck ups. Whichever result, status quo simply cannot continue.
That will make things worse.
Sounds like ya'll need a Trump
jimbobsmells
Member
Been thinking about this today in the wake of a 6 point lead for leave. It seems to me the EU is like an easy scapegoat for the government. One they and the media can use to cause misdirection for their own failings. If we leave then the papers and our glorious leaders can't use it as an excuse anymore, and it might make the populace wake up to the fact that it's their own government screwing them over, not fat cats in Brussels.
I genuinely think that we are better off staying in Europe, but I do have major issues with the EU. This vote is so binary, leave or stay. I just want to tick the box that says 'Remain (but pull your finger out of your arse buddy)'.
I genuinely think that we are better off staying in Europe, but I do have major issues with the EU. This vote is so binary, leave or stay. I just want to tick the box that says 'Remain (but pull your finger out of your arse buddy)'.
They'll find another scapegoat, don't worry. If anything, we'll continue to blame the EU.
The weird one is Sky. They're obviously moving to a Sky Europe model and yet Murdoch's supporting a vote to Leave. Maybe he thinks Sky can weather any downturn (as do I, customers on contracts, phone and broadband are utilities, pay-TV might actually get more popular as a 'cheaper night in', I think TV is one if the last things families cut) and the prize of more influence in the UK is worth risk.
Captain Chaos
Member
She has very high approval ratings amongst UK population.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
This is stupid though, like really mind numbligly stupid. They're going to fight the establishment by effectively giving them much more power over their daily lives. Literaly the only advantage is immigration,which as always remains shockingly on the fense of, if not outright xenophobia.
I think she is a out voter anyway, and secondly the last thing people should do is listen to anyone who has a life of privilege simple because of whose vagina they came out of...
I never understood how people can even respect the royals at all
I said to my wife last night, who is a 'in' voter...if over the next 10 years we get 250k immigration per year, that is 2.5 million people to try to deal with...
Where does the money come from to get the infrastructure to deal with that? if the Government suddenly say tax is now 40% basic to deal with the money that will be needed would you still vote in
her answer....nope
having concerns over mass immigration is not xenophobic, I never understood why it is claimed as such.... I can not think of one country that could cope with such a explosion in population, let alone a small one like here
The Government has all ready shown that we are just not going to get infrastructure to deal with the numbers
Nah, we can just go back to blaming the government, just like the good old days.
Actually leaving Europe will reduce EU oversight in effective competition for pay-TV rights (football rights) meaning
1. Potential for Sky to buy all the packages and secure their current status in UK. Content cost inflation is the structural bear case for Sky.
2. Potential for reduced price for rights since future rights bidders would have been multinational backed (BT increasingly from Deutsche Telekom, Amazon, Liberty, Vodafone et al).
They purchased Sky Deutschland and Italia primarily to eliminate the minorities and improve performance in a positioning to eventually sell the entire business to help Fox fund a purchase of Time Warner which is what Murdoch really wants.
Irrespective of all of that, Murdoch is anti-EU because it's much harder, nigh on impossible for him to wield influence over it like he does over the UK government or the US government (Fox).
59% apparently, dropping from 63% last year. I just don't see it working this time.
so i was in london for a few days last month and did my best friedman impersonation by asking various people what their thoughts on brexit were. usually this consisted of asking uber drivers, airport employees, and the fine chaps at st pancreas station. to my surprise, it was unanimous: get the hell out of the EU. most reasons had to do "we get nothing back" while "germany/merkel striving for more power" was a close second. good luck the next week or so from an american across the pond...
Captain Chaos
Member
In principle I'm not a fan of the Royals, I believe in meritocracy. Yes its pure luck and coincidence that she is who she is but she no doubt has performed her duties with aplomb and it seems from her approval ratings people agree.
As for her being an out voter, I doubt it, there is nothing more 'Establishment' then the Royal Family.
Low skilled workforce is a massive 70% 'out' as lets be honest if there is wage suppression it hits these employees the hardest
Principate
Saint Titanfall
The government already has gotten concesions from the EU in regards to benefits, chances are they can push for more. If these immigrants are working and adding to the economy then what exactly is the problem. The only point is that if they're not working they'll be kicked out. This leads us to next major "problem" whch is the age old cliche of they took our jobs. The people taking your jobs are largely pittance paid workers in China etc and automisation etc. Lower skilled jobs are quickly being moved or eradicated, as is the way of neo-liberal capitalism. I mean look at it from it's base what the difference between a british person taking a job and an eastern European, why do you care that a Eastern European takes a job that a british person doesn't are they not both people with equal rights to happiness trying to make their way in the world. People find it easy to demonize and separate people based comparitively arbitary reasons. Keepng in mind a large amount of accrued weath was taken and paid for by conquests of their forefathers through less than enviable means.
Thejackburton
Banned
you'd rather pay higher prices for everyday goods, service and bills over having to exchange your currency three times a year? sounds deluded and far from what your average citizen will think.
maybe it you're on 100k a year it doesn't matter to you.
Captain Chaos
Member
I'm sure those ratings beat Cameron and Farage
Immigrants are net benefit to the UK treasury. They pay more than the average tax-payer. We will be a poorer country without them. We need to be shipping white working class people out of the country if you are worried about the long term growth and economic prospects of the country.
Every single study, research piece and economic forecast that has the UK becoming the largest economy in Europe in the next 20 years or so has immigration at the heart of that. Without those young, working people taking jobs and paying taxes that won't happen and we go down the same hole Germany is currently facing with its aging population and demographics.
I am not referring to benefits, jobs or anything like that, I am simply saying, where do you put all these people?
if we want to have a country that works (and not just lower it the lowest common value) they all live 10 to a house why can't you etc...it is clear to me the Government has no inclination to actually build more hospitals, schools, doctors, prisons all of the infrastructure that will be needed
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
They will most likely blame the EU when this is over. They'll blame the EU for rising costs, taxes, and all sorts of other things that naturally come with abandoning free trade and other aspects of the EU.
If you want that third non-binary option, then you should vote Remain and in the general election next time, vote for a party that will implement those changes for you. Of course the vast majority of things that people do want changed are at the hands of their elect government and the EU has no hand in them. So if your government fails, it is your government that failed, not the EU.
But Cameron's basically makes it not worth while for the Queen. I am sure I read he has a approval rating of -26. Him and Osborne have been toxic for the remain camp.
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