Self_Destructive
Member
Yea, you're right about that. We'll have to see I guess. But I was referring to the potential of the hardware and being a fixed platform that devs could design around.
Top-of-the-line gaming pc-GAF, thoughts on scorpio?
- Thread starter MrMatt555
- Start date
Yea, you're right about that. We'll have to see I guess. But I was referring to the potential of the hardware and being a fixed platform that devs could design around.
Necromanti
Member
I've always thought that this was a complete non-statement unless we're expecting subsequent consoles to somehow be weaker. (Though I'm guessing they qualified the statement with, "We believe..." since they don't know what their competitors are up to.)
High-end gaming PC and Xbox One owner here.
I like it. I'll get it. I use both machines regularly. Some games, like Overwatch, Diablo, and Doom, I prefer to place on PC. Others, like Destiny, the Division, and Titanfall I like to (or am forced to) play on console. I like high-fidelity graphics as much as the next guy, but that's rarely the deciding factor. I care much more about relative playerbase, mods, the likelihood of running into cheaters, etc. Also, if it's a game that's clearly designed for controller, I'll lean towards getting it on console just because it's much easier to play on my couch. Although I do own a Steam Link and think it works well. It's still, quite frankly, more of a hassle than firing up the Xbox (have to power cycle it, have to go into the other room and turn my PC on, occasional bugs, etc).
I'll probably get the Scorpio eventually, though not at launch. Honestly, the thing I'm most excited for is a the prospect of a faster/more stable UI. The thing that kills me the most about the Xbox One is that the UI is laggy at times and frequently runs into errors (Netflix randomly not working, etc).
I like it. I'll get it. I use both machines regularly. Some games, like Overwatch, Diablo, and Doom, I prefer to place on PC. Others, like Destiny, the Division, and Titanfall I like to (or am forced to) play on console. I like high-fidelity graphics as much as the next guy, but that's rarely the deciding factor. I care much more about relative playerbase, mods, the likelihood of running into cheaters, etc. Also, if it's a game that's clearly designed for controller, I'll lean towards getting it on console just because it's much easier to play on my couch. Although I do own a Steam Link and think it works well. It's still, quite frankly, more of a hassle than firing up the Xbox (have to power cycle it, have to go into the other room and turn my PC on, occasional bugs, etc).
I'll probably get the Scorpio eventually, though not at launch. Honestly, the thing I'm most excited for is a the prospect of a faster/more stable UI. The thing that kills me the most about the Xbox One is that the UI is laggy at times and frequently runs into errors (Netflix randomly not working, etc).
TatteredHat
Member
Scorpio's irrelevant compared to high end gaming PCs, it is right now and it definitely will be by the time it releases.
Bl@de
Member
Scorpio is going to be 6 TFlops with AMD Architecture. Something around a 390X / RX480. A midrange card. Those cards aren't able to go toe-to-toe with other GPUs out now (like the 1070/1080). Even with architecture improvements it will be far away from high-end cards of Q4 2017 (a 1080 Ti or 1180).
Nothing will change.
Not even talking about the CPU, which will be another notebook CPU. I don't even want to imagine how games like ARMA or other CPU intensive simulations would run on that :/
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
As a PC gamer I'm gonna be really jealous of those uncompressed pixels.
Beautiful Ninja
Member
I just built a 6700k rig and I will have a GTX 1070 once availability isn't in the crapper.
I have 0 interest in Scorpio, my current PC will likely play the games I care about playing as well or better as everything is getting Windows 10 releases from here on out. I paid more for the experience, but I'll have the experience a year and a half earlier than those waiting for Scorpio.
I do see a point for Scorpio existing, as there is obviously a huge amount of gamers who don't want to deal with building gaming PC's or even buying prebuilt ones, but it won't do anything for those already or soon to be running high end rigs.
I'll still be playing PS4 games in their 1.whatever TFLOP glory though, because it'll offer me unique experiences I can't get on PC or Xbox.
I have 0 interest in Scorpio, my current PC will likely play the games I care about playing as well or better as everything is getting Windows 10 releases from here on out. I paid more for the experience, but I'll have the experience a year and a half earlier than those waiting for Scorpio.
I do see a point for Scorpio existing, as there is obviously a huge amount of gamers who don't want to deal with building gaming PC's or even buying prebuilt ones, but it won't do anything for those already or soon to be running high end rigs.
I'll still be playing PS4 games in their 1.whatever TFLOP glory though, because it'll offer me unique experiences I can't get on PC or Xbox.
Yeah, I was gonna say... I would hope that a console released at the end of 2017 would be stronger than any console currently on the market considering that the last console release was 2013. That used to be an entire console generation.
Fess
Member
It's the negative aspect of the whole upgrade idea, if this would've been a new generation and no forward- backwards compatibility was required we would've seen the true potential of the hardware. Mind you, it would still be behind PCs, they're all playing with the same toys and on PC you can choose more expensive ones, but a first party dev going all in to max out a 6tf console would still probably get some wows out of us all.
Another thing that might hamper Scorpio's potential is the focus on 4K. I'm honestly prepared to see games running at 30fps on that box too.
Sutton Dagger
Member
The 480x is 5.5TFs and is said to perform between a Nvidia 970-980, so that puts the Scorpio at just over a 980 which released 2 years ago. It's nowhere near the current 1080 and by late next year it will be even further behind.
The whole secret sauce/closed boxed thing hasn't yielded better performance this gen, when an i3/750ti performs better than the current PS4. The scorpio will also be held back by the comparatively slow 8 core cpu's that AMD put out. At the very best you can expect 980ti performance (though I don't see that happening), which is certainly nothing to sneeze at but it won't be a match for top of the line PC's next year.
Currently available 1080 GTX has 9 teraflops.
Onlinehero
Member
Yeah was gonna say. My 750ti delivers more frames at higher settings than a PS4 is capable of, and it's not even displayed in benchmark charts anymore! The Scorpio will be good for getting console-like performance at 4k (30FPS with drops to mid 20). PCs will double or triple that at similar settings as per usual. Though these comparisons are getting harder and harder to make as PC gamers are starting to prioritize 144hz to a much higher degree. Different targets, different preferences and priorities. It's a different ball game compared to reaching a stable 30FPS as consoles tend to go for.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
It's a really nice upgrade over the One. It should be on par with a fairly high end gaming PC of today, which is really impressive considering X1 was comparable to a low-mid range PC when it first released.
In fact the X1 CPU was laughably terrible and was barely better than a smartphone CPU at the time. If Scorpio is really using AMD Zen CPU, that should be a massive leap forward.
So, you aren't going to outperform a top of the line gaming PC with Scorpio, but you should be comparable to a decent mid-range PC. Something that was never true of X1.
In fact the X1 CPU was laughably terrible and was barely better than a smartphone CPU at the time. If Scorpio is really using AMD Zen CPU, that should be a massive leap forward.
So, you aren't going to outperform a top of the line gaming PC with Scorpio, but you should be comparable to a decent mid-range PC. Something that was never true of X1.
Spacecowboy77
Member
Really depends on the pricing and final specs
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
I'm mostly excited that console games are going to be designed to be scalable from now on. Should mean less "console-itis" affecting PC ports (e.g. locked frame rate/FOV/resolution bullshit). I'm also really excited that all Xbox exclusives will be on Windows 10.
Scorpio is great news for PC gamers
Scorpio is great news for PC gamers
Maximus P
Member
Price,Games and specific specs are the biggest factors here. To which we know none.
I have a mid-to high range pc at the moment (it was top end 9 months ago :-( ) but if the Scorpio comes in at a good price and releases with some good games I will almost certainly consider a purchase.
I really don't trust windows Pc store front at the moment and would much prefer to keep my Pc games on Steam.
I have a mid-to high range pc at the moment (it was top end 9 months ago :-( ) but if the Scorpio comes in at a good price and releases with some good games I will almost certainly consider a purchase.
I really don't trust windows Pc store front at the moment and would much prefer to keep my Pc games on Steam.
I got a high end PC (GTX 1080, i7 6700k, 32gb 3333Mhz ram etc) and a PS4 and i think the move that Microsoft is making is great with the scorpio.
To have an upgrade inside of a console generation is a really good way to keep pushing quality content and to not let games be held back as they were at the end of the last generation. Sure some games impress like GTA V did, but it didn't impress because of how good it actually looked but it impressed because of how good it looked on that hardware. Imagine what it could have looked like if they didn't have to care about such old hardware as the PS3 & X360, the generation was too long.
With the scorpio coming out at approx 5-6 tflops, that is almost equal to a 980ti it's a great thing. However for the high end PC market it doesn't mean much since the GTX1080 all ready delivers approx 9 tflops. what it will mean however is that developers will be able to utilize more power on console and multiplatform games and in turn might mean that graphics cards for PCs might not "live" as long as they did before. Like a lot of people are just now upgrading from GTX670 which is a old card. However that is fine, it might lead to cheaper prices since it won't be such a long term investment any more.
I think that incremental upgrades is the way forward since it will keep technology fresh and the difference between PC and Consoles not as huge so the games won't be held back, the console experience might instead be like a low+ -> mid level PC experience and the PC being the ultra high end. Developers can keep on pushing their games and not having to worry about 6 year old hardware.
To have an upgrade inside of a console generation is a really good way to keep pushing quality content and to not let games be held back as they were at the end of the last generation. Sure some games impress like GTA V did, but it didn't impress because of how good it actually looked but it impressed because of how good it looked on that hardware. Imagine what it could have looked like if they didn't have to care about such old hardware as the PS3 & X360, the generation was too long.
With the scorpio coming out at approx 5-6 tflops, that is almost equal to a 980ti it's a great thing. However for the high end PC market it doesn't mean much since the GTX1080 all ready delivers approx 9 tflops. what it will mean however is that developers will be able to utilize more power on console and multiplatform games and in turn might mean that graphics cards for PCs might not "live" as long as they did before. Like a lot of people are just now upgrading from GTX670 which is a old card. However that is fine, it might lead to cheaper prices since it won't be such a long term investment any more.
I think that incremental upgrades is the way forward since it will keep technology fresh and the difference between PC and Consoles not as huge so the games won't be held back, the console experience might instead be like a low+ -> mid level PC experience and the PC being the ultra high end. Developers can keep on pushing their games and not having to worry about 6 year old hardware.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Low framerates, VERY low draw distance/lod settings, low quality shadows, half or quarter res DOF and effects, lower quality AO
There's no magic just lowered settings and framerates
Going from 1.2TF to 6TF is a nice jump performance wise.
Why can't you just be happy with that? Why do you feel the need to convince yourself it's more than what it is?
Dictator93
Member
In the end I think it will have terrible utility if you enjoy playing xbox exclusives... as now they will all be on PC and a PC will scale into the future and just offer everything a PC offers. That, and if you go the PC route, you then have access to a multiple decade library and hundreds of releases that never hit consoles.
I am happy the scorpio is coming out though because it will mean invariably better scaling graphical options in PC releases as a side effect.
I am happy the scorpio is coming out though because it will mean invariably better scaling graphical options in PC releases as a side effect.
Finaika
Member
Sub 4K will still look pretty good.
I'm glad consoles are moving towards an iterative (better) model. I'm not sure I agree that 4K is the best way to put that performance to use though.
As for where it stands in terms of performance in the current PC landscape? Well, a $200 card will soon to be released that offers a similar level (Maybe a little less. We still don't have reviews.) of performance, and that's one year prior.
This doesn't make it a special circumstance. Consoles used to launch ahead of what was available at the time. It wouldn't usually last long, but the point remains. Both the original current-gen consoles and their upgraded versions will have launched behind. That shouldn't take away from the benefits that pursuing an iterative model brings to console users though.
As for where it stands in terms of performance in the current PC landscape? Well, a $200 card will soon to be released that offers a similar level (Maybe a little less. We still don't have reviews.) of performance, and that's one year prior.
This doesn't make it a special circumstance. Consoles used to launch ahead of what was available at the time. It wouldn't usually last long, but the point remains. Both the original current-gen consoles and their upgraded versions will have launched behind. That shouldn't take away from the benefits that pursuing an iterative model brings to console users though.
roadrunn3r
Member
Exactly and it would be the same thing even if the Scorpio would be 9TFLOPS. The concept that people play on PC for absolute performance is so wrong.
To add to that for a console that's coming a year and a half away, you will be able to get 6TFLOPS AMD cards for lets say 120$ by then. (instead of today's 200$) Nothing has changed in that sense considering you were able to get a GTX 950 for the past year at the same price.
LelouchZero
Member
I believe the introduction of Scorpio and the PS4 Neo is a great thing, they set a new benchmark for developers to target so the games will have higher graphical fidelity and complexity.
The Scorpio's GPU should theoretically be able to run the 1080p Xbox One games at 4K without much struggle, maybe even with a few graphical improvements too, but I strongly believe this GPU power would be better utilized by running games at lower resolutions, higher frame-rates and higher graphical settings.
A worst case scenario could be that the Scorpio simply plays Xbox One games at 4K, without much improvements in visuals, which isn't really a good thing.
We're don't really know what architecture the Scorpio is going to use for it's GPU but it could be Vega as Polaris apparently has a max of 36 Compute Units (2304 cores), it would have to be clocked at 1300-1310MHz to be capable of 6 teraflops which will likely drive the thermals and power consumption up.
Vega looks like it will have 64 Compute Units and a total of 4096 cores, they might use a low-clocked Vega chip to get the 6 teraflops they want, possibly something like 800-900MHz and 3328-3840 cores.
We're uncertain about the performance per core improvements of Vega and Polaris, but so far the 6 teraflops put the Scorpio's GPU around the R9 290X/390X and the RX 480.
The 290X is a GPU that released in October 2013, around a month after the PS4 and Xbox One launched.
It is 3x faster than the PlayStation 4's GPU and 4.3x faster than the Xbox One's GPU, there have also been much faster GPUs released since then.
The 290X and 390X are really capable GPUs and are able to run all multi-platform titles at higher resolutions, higher frame-rates and higher graphical settings than the consoles can, the 390X is even faster than the GTX 970.
However the majority of these additions could be lost if developers use the majority of computational power to run games at 4K, it would be a waste.
Phil Spencer said that the developers can use the hardware in what way they wish, so hopefully this comes to fruition.
The Scorpio's GPU should theoretically be able to run the 1080p Xbox One games at 4K without much struggle, maybe even with a few graphical improvements too, but I strongly believe this GPU power would be better utilized by running games at lower resolutions, higher frame-rates and higher graphical settings.
A worst case scenario could be that the Scorpio simply plays Xbox One games at 4K, without much improvements in visuals, which isn't really a good thing.
We're don't really know what architecture the Scorpio is going to use for it's GPU but it could be Vega as Polaris apparently has a max of 36 Compute Units (2304 cores), it would have to be clocked at 1300-1310MHz to be capable of 6 teraflops which will likely drive the thermals and power consumption up.
Vega looks like it will have 64 Compute Units and a total of 4096 cores, they might use a low-clocked Vega chip to get the 6 teraflops they want, possibly something like 800-900MHz and 3328-3840 cores.
We're uncertain about the performance per core improvements of Vega and Polaris, but so far the 6 teraflops put the Scorpio's GPU around the R9 290X/390X and the RX 480.
The 290X is a GPU that released in October 2013, around a month after the PS4 and Xbox One launched.
It is 3x faster than the PlayStation 4's GPU and 4.3x faster than the Xbox One's GPU, there have also been much faster GPUs released since then.
The 290X and 390X are really capable GPUs and are able to run all multi-platform titles at higher resolutions, higher frame-rates and higher graphical settings than the consoles can, the 390X is even faster than the GTX 970.
However the majority of these additions could be lost if developers use the majority of computational power to run games at 4K, it would be a waste.
Phil Spencer said that the developers can use the hardware in what way they wish, so hopefully this comes to fruition.
Auto-Reply
Member
It does mean absolutely nothing to me. Can you decide for yourself how you are going to use that power? Can you completely change it from high image quality to framerate priority or something in the middle?
That is the reason why I like to play on pc in the first place. Not the fact that you can slap an absurd amount of flops in a case and then just tick every box in the game menu to max and leave it at that.
I highly doubt that anyone playing pc on the high end range is intrigued by what scorpio offers, in the end it is still the same difference. Do you want to have choice or not?
Chittagong
Gold Member
I'm doing a 1080 build, and the way I view Scorpio is that today 6TF in a console sounds nuts, given that consoles tend to be able to get more out of a TF than PCs. Which is the one reason why announcing it so early might have been sensible - it sounds insanely powerful, which helps in 'capturing the hardcore' positioning.
However come late 2017, PCs will be way beyond and 6TF will be pretty mid-range. Provided that
1 - I can play Halo on my PC rig
2 - I can play Halo against console players and PC players
3 - I can play Halo against controller players only (no KB/M)
I will simply stick to whatever 1180 rig I have then.
However come late 2017, PCs will be way beyond and 6TF will be pretty mid-range. Provided that
1 - I can play Halo on my PC rig
2 - I can play Halo against console players and PC players
3 - I can play Halo against controller players only (no KB/M)
I will simply stick to whatever 1180 rig I have then.
MrMatt555
Member
Sure. But they can at least be upgraded to get third parties to port better for pc.