PS4 Neo presentation might have leaked
- Thread starter Nibel
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Danlord
Member
Is it possible that Microsoft have designed a version of Scorpio that's 3TFLOP, being cautious about over-promising a more powerful system, and using the half-precision to count it as 6TFLOP so by the time 2017 comes and Microsoft can actually tape out Scorpio, something like Zen and/or whatever specification they use for Polaris so they could aim for similar setup to Neo to perhaps around 4TFLOP for full-precision and then further announce an upgrade from the original spec to "8TFLOP" counted as half-precision?
Hopefully I'm not too rambly, but basically MS playing it safe and counting half-precision until they can secure more powerful hardware.
That is true.
If specs change at all from the leak to release, I think RAM bandwidth is the most reasonable change.
Danlord
Member
Is it possible Sony could secure GDDR5X for Neo?
Dunno
It's possible but I'm not sure how likely it is. Yields/pricing aren't too bad on GDDR5x but I don't know how that would have an impact on compatibility. Neo seems designed specifically to scale easily from the base PS4 and anything that could jeopardize that compatibility is likely off the table.
No, not Xbox anywhere. Even if publishers doesn't support play anywhere (I do think they do, but that's a discussion for another topic) on Xbox from now on games are decoupled from hardware. This means that if a game supports both xbone and Xbox 2 it's the same game, the same online community. It just happens to run and/or look better on the newer console.
And BC doesn't solve that problem. If a game releases for both consoles they are most likely to not be interchangeable. So it's two games, with two different populations.
Ms universal platform was made with that in mind, not only the games, but the platform itself is the same, it will be the same network whether you are on xbone or xbox 2, playing the same games (bar those who are too demanding to run on xbone 1 which will come a few years later), with the same accessory support.
What I'm talking about is essentially what you already have on iOS or Pc, where you can upgrade your hardware and your games automatically run better, not because they are being emulated, but because the game itself was made to run and adapt to devices with different performances.
You do know there's nothing unique about Microsofts platform in the respect to cross play . There's nothing stoping publishers from releasing crossgen games that play online together.
Chill Penguin
Member
Yes I'm liking Microsoft's direction with the backwards and forwards compatibility, play anywhere, and monster specs in the Scorpio. I like knowing I'll always have my 360 and xbone games in my library. They've turned the ship around after their dismal start to the generation.
Pathfinder
Member
I think some people are just having fun.
Except Scorpio launches 4 years after, not 3!
It's k tho, we can shove that variable right in, math is very malleable.
OléGunner;210051951 said:
Who says that is going to be the case? Andrew house himself said in regards to NEO, that generations allow developers on console to realize higher quality experiences concurrent with power increases and that they don't want to get rid of that advantage. So where is this contrary talk coming from? Nobody needs to follow MS's line of thinking of infinite forwards compatibility.
NEO's seem to be the iterative units, and numbered units are the actual upgrades, and i am happy with that set up
It wouldn't be a lie & nothing was official about Neo as they was unveiling the Xbox Scorpio so they had noting to save face from.
You tell me
I do think it's pretty cool that Sony is actively encouraging devs to contact them for assistance if needed.You tell me
Yeah man technical fellows aren't cheap. Might as well make use of them if you got em
I think Sony's up to the same tricks and the Neo is just a 2.1TFLOPS machine which is just a bit beefier slim PS4.
"Uprendering" isn't a specific thing. The cheap rendering techniques you go on to mention in your next post are real, but they don't really fall under any specific category since there are a variety of ways to construct a higher resolution image out of lower resolution buffers.
I'm not fazed because I'ved called so many things that ended up right while people talk like I'm crazy then once it's shown that I'm right they start talking about the stuff as if they knew about it the whole time,
I said we would have 4K gaming this generation & got Jr're for making threads about it but like what we have now.
I said PS4K would be 36CUs from doubling the PS4CUs & I was right I said it was Polaris I was right I said it would us uprendering to get to 4K & I'm right all of these things people attacked for & I was right so no I'm not fazed when people attack.
If this happens I'll abandon the Sony platform for Scorpio and won't look back until Sony releases industry leading hardware again like the ps4 was.
While I don't think MS is being misleading about the 6tf, there's a big difference between the info we have from MS and Sony. We have official documentation from Sony that has been leaked, with detailed specs that is giving the calculation of 4.2 tflops.
Whereas we just have a statement from MS saying 6TF, without any detailed specs. A statement that can be misleading in the way the company calculates it.
Again, I don't think MS is trying to be misleading and it's probably a "proper 6TF" but I can see where people are coming from regarding this. Especially due to MS' track record this gen (people not believing them are doubting their claims due to what they did earlier this gen, I don't blame them for that, but I on the other hand am inclined to believe them due to their recent turnarounds).
I feel like uprendering is a misleading term for reconstruction techniques. We're talking about the same things, just with different terms and everyone is getting confused.
The problem with that is that Sony hasn't said the Tflops number & we no that it is 4.19tflops (single-precision ) by doing math using the CU count & clock speed.
By the way it is 2.1TFLOPS (double-precision)
So the PS4 is 0.9 TF then?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
A 3TF system with 320GB/s bandwidth and 12GB RAM. Seems legit.
The standard measurement of FLOPs for GPUs, especially with gaming in mind is single-precision. If you see a FLOPs number for a GPU, it is single precision, unless specified otherwise. Half-precision and double-precision floating point ops are more often useful for other tasks. There could actually be efficiencies gained from using half-precision for certain tasks that don't require single-precision accuracy, but that's a side point.
Welfare
Member
Lol yeah that's fucking crazy.
Next thing you know they'll start saying MS were caught off guard by Neo.
Chobel
Member
It's 320Gb/s dummy, meaning the real bandwidth is 40GB/s.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Except that's not the case is it. It's actually 68GB/s DDR3 with a 32MB ESRAM 'scratchpad' having a max theoretical bandwidth of 204GB/s. But realistic performance of ~140 or so.
Your line of 'thinking' is interesting but very obviously wrong, for numerous reasons.
They usually use the peak flops which would usually be the single-precision number on PC GPUs but mobile GPUs that use half-precision us the half-precision numbers . Polaris peak number is also the half-precision number.
How is it wrong? how you know the 320GB/s number isn't the same as the 204GB/s number?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Well there could be some fuzzy numbers going on with the RAM setup, it's not beyond possibility that they will use ESRAM again, but it's highly unlikely. However the 6TF+- single precision GPU is 100% guaranteed. Your proposal is ludicrous to the point where I'm not sure if you are just trolling or not.
That's just not true. Which mobile GPUs are you referring to? Also, which Polaris "peak number" are you referring to? The 5.5 TF advertised for the RX480 is for single-precision floating point operations, not half-precision.
LukasTaves
Member
Well, the jump will not be as high if you buy every iteration, but if you skip some I don't see how the jump wouldn't be the same as a full generation.
This is actually what I like about iterative releases, it's ultimately your choice when to jump to new hardware and I think you'd be able to keep a console for longer than you would on a traditional generation cycle (a normal one, not the almost 10 year long the last one was)
There's actually something very unique about Ms platform : The fact that it's the exact same network, with the exact same APIs and libraries. You don't need to support cross play (save for the guidelines about handling different input methods), you just implement the network on your game and it works on Xbox, scorpio and pc if you like. Convenience is key for a feature to get developer support.
Which is also why we don't see much cross gen games with a shared community. The 360 live is different from the xbone's, you still have work to provide interop between those two. But from now on Xbox live is just a single entity on Xbone, Scorpio, pc and whatever comes next, so it's zero work for the dev to have those platforms sharing the same user base.
You say that is there a reason the same thing can't happen to ps4? The psn has matured enough it doesn't need another rewrite for next gen. It should be able to use the underlying code same as Microsoft. See what's playing and not what's they are playing on. With the neo coming out it proves that even a upgrade in specs you can using the underlying architecture of the network to play with ps4 players. Since the ps4 went x86 there is no reason to change going forward generations. So the stuff they have now will just work on better hardware. They no longer need to reinvent the wheel every time with their OS, tools and apps. the only thing the network needs to worry about when playing crossgen games with the ps5 is a text field.
Didn't the Doom dev, just kinda shoot this idea down? Saying that the DX12 API's for Xbox and PC are indeed different?
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Those will be one hundred percent increased if it comes out next year. Those numbers are pathetic against Scorpio.
I'll be going back to microsoft for multi platform anyways if Sony stays low.
Really wish microsoft would say pc versions of all old games were coming or something. I'd be all over it
I'll be going back to microsoft for multi platform anyways if Sony stays low.
Really wish microsoft would say pc versions of all old games were coming or something. I'd be all over it
Proelite
Member
This before AMD implemented bandwidth compression. In GCN1.3. Otherwise Neo would be bottlenecked by 218 GB/s.
It's technically possible that Scorpio is 3tf, but less chance than Neo bumped to 5+ tf single precision. How likely do you think the latter is?
Anyways I think you have some valid points, which I think you can share in a new thread, like you did previously with the 480 connection.
Everythig you say is right . But you realy think MS is doing this, after announcing the most powerfull console ever Made thing?
At this point, announcing the end of MS console gaming would be the same.
Cynn
Member
It kinda plays into the rumors that Neo only exists because the new chipset is actually cheaper to source than having to engineer the PS4 architecture into a slim would be.
I believe it. Curious to see if new regular ps4s are just under clocked neos. We going to have guides how to turn your new ps4 into a neo.
anothertech
Member
Yup. PC and Xbox dx12 are different code paths.
It's most likely not the case but I wouldn't put it past them with the information that was given at a time when AMD & Nvidia PC GPUs are starting to support native FP16.
LukasTaves
Member
Of course others can do too, but afaik ms is the only one providing the exact same network across different devices. And not just network, you can think of the bone dash becoming an ios like system, instead of having a different OS for each new console.
Sony might as well do the same for ps5 too, we just don't know about it yet.
Dx12, and to a bigger extent even win 10 is a work in progress. Thought I think that even now much of the code would be shared already.
But I was talking about Xbox live apis in that case, which now is moving to be the same across pc and Xbox.
serversurfer
Member
Sony don't particularly care if anyone buys the PS5. If we were still okay with buying games for our PS1s, that'd be more than okay with Sony. And supporting hardware ~3 years old doesn't seem to retard PC development to any great degree, so I think we'd be alright.
I'm pretty sure they never said anything of the sort.
wapplew
Member
If you think tech advancement in a linear way, sure.
PC and mobile are the perfect example of stale. Legacy support is the biggest obstruction for innovation. Want to use new and better tech or architecture? Nope, it will kill compatible. Let's stick to the old tech until we can achieve full emulation.
Let's just stick to X% faster every year. How advance is that.