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[THE:MILKMAN]

Yup, but that forecast includes the OG PS4 as well (which will probably get a 50$ price cut). I still think that the OG PS4 and X1s will be the top selling consoles for a considerable amount of time.

I guess it would help if we knew what sales are for Q1 this year. Even if PS4 gets a price cut in Q3 and Neo comes this year I can't see that sales would increase for the second year in a row by well over 2 million. If Neo doesn't come until March and/or is premium priced >$399 then the 20 million figure would be even harder to reach.

Saying that, PS4 keeps breaking records and forecasts so who knows.

 

[Hydrargyrus]

I'm not sure about this. Haven't Sony predicted 20 million sales for this financial year? What were PS4 sales for the last one?

About 17 millions, but Sony are pretty conservative in their predictions lately

 

[mrklaw]

It's an obvious conclusion.

Most of the games doesn't come out for last gen not because they are so underpowered the game would be impossible, but rather because they require a complete new version made from scratch (and you can't even reuse the code unless you are using an engine that already supports both, but even then is troublesome because the engine stops supporting new features on older hardware), and that is most likely not worth it if the sales are going to be too low.

Now, if the cost for supporting the previous console is almost nothing extra when supporting the new one, and sales are guaranteed because the user knows if it buys a game for ps4 and later upgrades the game will run even better people on ps4 who didn't upgrade yet will moat likely purchase it too.

Edit. I just realized this is another benefit of forward compatibility instead of BC only.

Agreed. Sony and MS will likely not mandate it, but publishers will continue to support PS4 even when it isn't required by Sony (and same with Xbox). Assuming the same architecture, publishers will continue to support for as long as their PC-based engines can scale low enough to support legacy consoles. It is a huge benefit for publishers to lower costs of transitioning between generations and needing to have multiple teams working on very different versions.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Forward compatibility= Longer cross-gen phase

Nothing more, nothing less. At some point developers will have to let the weaker console go. Just like system requirements on PC change with time...

 

[Obscuritas]

I guess it would help if we knew what sales are for Q1 this year. Even if PS4 gets a price cut in Q3 and Neo comes this year I can't see that sales would increase for the second year in a row by well over 2 million. If Neo doesn't come until March and/or is premium priced >$399 then the 20 million figure would be even harder to reach.

Saying that, PS4 keeps breaking records and forecasts so who knows.

In order to achieve those numbers NEO should be released this fall and priced at 399$, agreed.

They are probably also betting that some PS4 owners will upgrade to NEO.

 

[BleedOrange]

If Sony updates on a 3 year schedule, and MS at 4, Sony will always be a few steps ahead. That's a smarter hand played IMO.

Or, always playing catch-up, depending on the way you think about it.

 

[Synth]

you could argue that the larger player base is considered to be the standard due to the investment in that ecosystem. the only thing that seems to make people jump ship in huge numbers is a poor plan that shits on consumers. all sony has to do is not fuck up

You could argue it, but there's really not a whole lot to back it up. The PS1 and PS2 are pretty much the only situations where I'd say this has been the case. What's more consistent imo, is that developers will always attempt to target the largest overall userbase within reason. So I'd find it far more likely that if MS and Sony were releasing their consoles in alternate cycles, the newest Sony console would be held back by the most recent previous Xbox console, and vice versa, as most games would likely be able to scale down at least one "half-gen" step.

We're also making some rather large assumptions in regards to the intended releases of both. MS has gone from releasing two years after Sony, to one year before, to the same time, to one year later... I don't think we can sit here and claim with any confidence that Sony's gonna release a new console in year X and MS will respond in year Y or whatever.

Basically, we don't know shit, and so we shouldn't be making near-factual claims about the merits between either strategy, when we don't even have a release date for the Neo yet, let alone a PS5.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

In order to achieve those numbers NEO should be released this fall and priced at 399$, agreed.

They are probably also betting that some PS4 owners will upgrade to NEO.

Then there is also PSVR to add to the mix. Not that Sony care which of the three options they buy so long as it is at least one.

 

[BleedOrange]

I tried to visualize the upcoming roadmap of both platforms, based on a 3 year cycle for PS iterative model and 4 years for XBOX.

Now, obviously this is just an educated guess and obviously, things may turn out entirely different, but if you follow this line of thinking, I think there are some nice conclusions which can be deduced from this.

Most important is the clear positioning of the PS Neo SKUs as intermediary / beefed-up SKUs of their predecessors, while Scorpio seems to be more like a hybrid between a beefed up and a complete new gen console. That's why I called Scorpio's successor XBOX 5.

Furthermore, the different approach leads in a constant stream of new consoles within the next years, the biggest gap beeing the time between PS5 and PS5 Neo / XBOX 5 (3 years).

This is not the correct way to think about it. MS have stated that they're going to be basing their consoles around major APU architecture revisions, not arbitrary X-year-long cycles.

 

[Omnistalgic]

In order to achieve those numbers NEO should be released this fall and priced at 399$, agreed.

They are probably also betting that some PS4 owners will upgrade to NEO.

Yea I think a lot of people will get Neo if you can trade it in at a GameStop and get one for $200. If Neo comes in @ $400, 20M units might be conservative, lots of folk will just upgrade because it's a new better PS4 and "latest & greatest" effect and all that.

I really want a beastly PS4, so having MS say this is the next Xbox and rumored Neo stuff being weaker is dissapointing, since I only game on console, having the most powerful does mean something to me. But If Sony thinks whatever the specs end up being is sufficient for developers to make better looking games and extend this cycle a little I can trust that. Ps4 is turning into my favorite PS, so can't wait to see what the rest of the gen looks like.

 

[Rolf NB]

There is still no clarity about the future of process shrinks. All assumptions about future performance upgrades (at any given pricepoint / power envelope) hinge on those semicon process advances.

We are only getting these refresh consoles now because contract foundries like TSMC finally figured out sub-20nm process nodes. Took them long enough. The next step might take them even longer.

10nm might be the absolute end of the line, especially if you consider cost per transistor (which is a thing in the console business), even 14/16nm could be it.

Just a thing to keep in mind whenever you calculate the market introduction of the "inevitable" next refresh.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Then there is also PSVR to add to the mix. Not that Sony care which of the three options they buy so long as it is at least one.

This is potentially the biggest hurdle for Neo.

Do I get VR or get a new PS4?

I'm not sure how many will do both but it's certainly within reason to suggest the group only willing to do one is larger.
Sony will have to do really good marketing here. It's one of the reasons I thought the rumored 5tf consoles launching early next year was legit because it just seems to be too much to debut an upgraded console and new platform within the same time period. But I don't know anything so who knows

 

[wapplew]

There is still no clarity about the future of process shrinks. All assumptions about future performance upgrades (at any given pricepoint / power envelope) hinge on those semicon process advances.

We are only getting these refresh consoles now because contract foundries like TSMC finally figured out sub-20nm process nodes. Took them long enough. The next step might take them even longer.

10nm might be the absolute end of the line, especially if you consider cost per transistor (which is a thing in the console business), even 14/16nm could be it.

Just a thing to keep in mind whenever you calculate the market introduction of the "inevitable" next refresh.

Quantum computer can't come soon enough.
Maybe they will invent something else before we can shrink again.

 

[gatti-man]

Your first mistake was saying PS4's level of success was only due to MS fucking up. It wasn't. There's just not enough people interested in Xbox in general. They would have lost regardless of if MS pulled out the best launch they could have.

Your second mistake is acting like what MS does now with Scorpio is resetting their fortunes when it is not. Power generally, isn't what gave PS4 its success, and it won't help Scorpio how your thinking it might. Just because NEO is the weaker of the optional iterative consoles means generally little when it comes to price, availability, ecosystem, and other things.

Read my post again. Nowhere did I say the ps4's success was solely due to MS. However it's very easy to win when your competitor puts out a product significantly more expensive AND underpowered. Atleast the PS3 had bluray and a weird edge on power after a while. Xbone had nothing to set it apart in a positive light at all besides halo and KI.

I'd also disagree power doesn't sell consoles. Last gen followed the power curve exactly. X360 hits the gen running now with crazy looking exclusives while PS3's architecture slows development and multiplatforms suffer. After a while developers figure it out and start to churn it amazing exclusives while the 360 basically stays the same as it did at launch. The power shifts and so did the sales.

Scorpio hits and makes games look visibly better it's going to sell more consoles. That's undeniable. Now will it will sell enough to balance things? That remains to be seen but Sony staying quiet about Neo this late tells me that the Scorpio announcement changed plans for Sony. I have a hard time believing we see neo this year with zero announced so far. Sony has a history of reacting to Microsoft and outplaying them. I actually hope they do this time and release a stronger neo. This is all just my opinion after all.

Once again everyone always wants to stay with the dominant platform. Acting like Sony's lead is just too large. Tell that to Nintendo when PlayStation happened. Tell that to Sony when the 360 happened. Best console wins assuming price isn't a huge barrier. That's what we've seen and that's what we will continue to see.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Quantum computer can't come soon enough.
Maybe they will invent something else before we can shrink again.

There's tremendous economic incentive to push forward in one way or another, but some of the shifts can be disruptive in ways that catch the industry off guard. We've been focused on innovations that push die shrinks on silicon wafers for a long time but there's reason to believe it won't carry much past the 7nm node. Quantum devices are so fundamentally different that I expect we'll go down more familiar paths for a while yet. Gallium nitride shows promise as a new semiconductor. It has really nice thermal attributes and conductivity that make it attractive at high clock speeds but could also lead to more aggressive die stacking.

Never doubt the ingenuity of human beings when properly motivated.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

This is not the correct way to think about it. MS have stated that they're going to be basing their consoles around major APU architecture revisions, not arbitrary X-year-long cycles.

MS stated a lot within the last 3 years. All I see is they launched the XBOX in fall 2013 and the Scorpio will launch in fall 2017. That's their cycle right now. Which is obviously subject to change. But I don't give a FF about their statements anymore.

 

[quest]

Forward compatibility= Longer cross-gen phase

Nothing more, nothing less. At some point developers will have to let the weaker console go. Just like system requirements on PC change with time...

There is going to be a long "cross gen" no matter what happens. The new gen consoles will be to similar to avoid it. The reason cross gen died so fast last time was basically making a separate game. Next time around it will be the same game only scaled down so very little cost. Since there will be a long cross gen might as well take advantage of it with forward compatibility. Things like a 1 community and having a built in user base for developers is to good to pass up IMO.

 

[Obscuritas]

That remains to be seen but Sony staying quiet about Neo this late tells me that the Scorpio announcement changed plans for Sony.

This was already debunked.

 

[Jumeira]

Read my post again. Nowhere did I say the ps4's success was solely due to MS. However it's very easy to win when your competitor puts out a product significantly more expensive AND underpowered. Atleast the PS3 had bluray and a weird edge on power after a while. Xbone had nothing to set it apart in a positive light at all besides halo and KI.

I'd also disagree power doesn't sell consoles. Last gen followed the power curve exactly. X360 hits the gen running now with crazy looking exclusives while PS3's architecture slows development and multiplatforms suffer. After a while developers figure it out and start to churn it amazing exclusives while the 360 basically stays the same as it did at launch. The power shifts and so did the sales.

Scorpio hits and makes games look visibly better it's going to sell more consoles. That's undeniable. Now will it will sell enough to balance things? That remains to be seen but Sony staying quiet about Neo this late tells me that the Scorpio announcement changed plans for Sony. I have a hard time believing we see neo this year with zero announced so far. Sony has a history of reacting to Microsoft and outplaying them. I actually hope they do this time and release a stronger neo. This is all just my opinion after all.

Once again everyone always wants to stay with the dominant platform. Acting like Sony's lead is just too large. Tell that to Nintendo when PlayStation happened. Tell that to Sony when the 360 happened. Best console wins assuming price isn't a huge barrier. That's what we've seen and that's what we will continue to see.

Agreed on this.

 

[Obscuritas]

Best console wins assuming price isn't a huge barrier. That's what we've seen and that's what we will continue to see.

I'm gonna assume "best = most powerful" here, so this statement is bloody wrong.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

This was already debunked.

A couple of things stood out for me that came from Sony execs. One was 'we have our strategy and they [MS] have their's and the other was basically Sony being surprised MS announced Scorpio at all. I guess Sony expected that acknowledging Neo before E3 would mean MS would pull the Scorpio announcement?

 

[quest]

The most powerful console usually losses. Sony has absolutely no reason to deviate from their plan (which seems like new hardware every 3 years).

We cant really use the past any more to judge things. Sony will dominate the rest of this generation no mater what we can all agree to that. What is different now is there are almost no 3rd party exclusives like the old days. The Architectures are just to similar now for 3rd party to ignore either platform. Even if the Xbone continues to sell poorly it will still get all the big time 3rd party games. Power does not sell consoles along but it is one of the factors. I don't think the Scorpio will make any dent in the Sony machine. But I am glad it is coming out because the current machines are so under powered and outdated already.

 

[quest]

I tried to visualize the upcoming roadmap of both platforms, based on a 3 year cycle for PS iterative model and 4 years for XBOX.

Now, obviously this is just an educated guess and obviously, things may turn out entirely different, but if you follow this line of thinking, I think there are some nice conclusions which can be deduced from this.

Most important is the clear positioning of the PS Neo SKUs as intermediary / beefed-up SKUs of their predecessors, while Scorpio seems to be more like a hybrid between a beefed up and a complete new gen console. That's why I called Scorpio's successor XBOX 5.

Furthermore, the different approach leads in a constant stream of new consoles within the next years, the biggest gap beeing the time between PS5 and PS5 Neo / XBOX 5 (3 years).

I think you are looking at it wrong. It will not be as much of set years as when there is break troughs in technology. Most likely around node shrinks or improvements. Neither Sony or MS are going to be selling consoles at a loss any more. The only way a PS5 makes sense is on a node shrink. The alternative is a break trough by AMD for efficiency which I would not hold my breath on that.

 

[thuway]

Why are posters trying to isolate one metric and predict mainstream success based on that ONE isolated variable?

I'd argue- in order to be succesful a console needs to represent a confluence of EVERY major factor. There needs to be a BALANCE of power, price, library, install base, and the rarely mentioned: je ne sais quoi.

-You cannot release a 4.2/6 TF console, charge $599, and expect it to sell out at every major retailer. Price sensitivity matters just as much as power.

-You cannot expect consumers locked into one service where the lion's share of their friends are to automatically switch to a competiting platform because it has more exclusives or because it has more power. The most telling variable will be how consumers will purchase based on where their friends are playing.


I could do this all day, but you guys get the picture. The consoles are more than just "power", "price", "user base" - they are a sophisticated group of stats that come to form something we don't know completely.

 

[wapplew]

We cant really use the past any more to judge things. Sony will dominate the rest of this generation no mater what we can all agree to that. What is different now is there are almost no 3rd party exclusives like the old days. The Architectures are just to similar now for 3rd party to ignore either platform. Even if the Xbone continues to sell poorly it will still get all the big time 3rd party games. Power does not sell consoles along but it is one of the factors. I don't think the Scorpio will make any dent in the Sony machine. But I am glad it is coming out because the current machines are so under powered and outdated already.

Once again I don't understand why MS don't want to hit reset button with Scorpio. It's not like extend this gen or "get rid of gen" will do them any favor, I can understand market leader want the gen last forever but not the opposite.
No cutting tie with Xbox one will make it a huge holdback to Scorpio growth.

 

[Obscuritas]

A couple of things stood out for me that came from Sony execs. One was 'we have our strategy and they [MS] have their's and the other was basically Sony being surprised MS announced Scorpio at all. I guess Sony expected that acknowledging Neo before E3 would mean MS would pull the Scorpio announcement?

They were surprised about the timing because Scorpio will be released in 16-17 months (props to Microsoft however, they were honest and transparent in the eyes of their audience who might hold on and wait now).

Once again I don't understand why MS don't want to hit reset button with Scorpio. It's not like extend this gen or "get rid of gen" will do them any favor, I can understand market leader want the gen last forever but not the opposite.
No cutting tie with Xbox one will make it a huge holdback to Scorpio growth.

Again, because they couldn't even if they wanted to. Starting a new gen from scratch is not as easy as snapping your fingers.

 

[thuway]

A couple of things stood out for me that came from Sony execs. One was 'we have our strategy and they [MS] have their's and the other was basically Sony being surprised MS announced Scorpio at all. I guess Sony expected that acknowledging Neo before E3 would mean MS would pull the Scorpio announcement?

How else would you expect an executive to answer the question: "Based on the rumored and leaked documentation our press outlet has received, can you give your remarks on the performance/power deficit from your unannounced NDA'd machine against your competitor's project that is set to launch a full year later?"

No matter what any one says - there is going to be an article written- and the press is designed to create headlines. So if you legitimately are weaker, if you have unknown plans, or if you just want to avoid the question - you just shut the hell up and walk off.

 

[rambis]

A couple of things stood out for me that came from Sony execs. One was 'we have our strategy and they [MS] have their's and the other was basically Sony being surprised MS announced Scorpio at all. I guess Sony expected that acknowledging Neo before E3 would mean MS would pull the Scorpio announcement?

If you read that interview House said they were suprised MS announced it this far out given how tech is usually annouced now days. They only acknowledged it to clear some concerns customers have been speaking.

I don't think Sony knew much about Scorpio. It was supposedly in response to the Neo in the first place.

 

[LukasTaves]

You're referring to an upgrade patch / mode on top of BC. I am referring to FB, so all new PS5 games also have to run on a PS4 Neo (which basically makes "PlayStation" games out of them).

I'm also taking forward compatibility, because that's what it is.

Just as scorpio games will be xbone games but better, eventually xbone 2 games will be Scorpio games but better. (And for many games that reach will also go all the way through xbone).

Obviously xbone won't be supported forever, it's absurd to expect it to, or to think that it will have to otherwise it won't be FC.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Why are posters trying to isolate one metric and predict mainstream success based on that ONE isolated variable?

I'd argue- in order to be succesful a console needs to represent a confluence of EVERY major factor. There needs to be a BALANCE of power, price, library, install base, and the rarely mentioned: je ne sais quoi.

-You cannot release a 4.2/6 TF console, charge $599, and expect it to sell out at every major retailer. Price sensitivity matters just as much as power.

-You cannot expect consumers locked into one service where the lion's share of their friends are to automatically switch to a competiting platform because it has more exclusives or because it has more power. The most telling variable will be how consumers will purchase based on where their friends are playing.


I could do this all day, but you guys get the picture. The consoles are more than just "power", "price", "user base" - they are a sophisticated group of stats that come to form something we don't know completely.

I agree with this and to add to it I would love to know if there is something else Neo has in the box the current PS4 doesn't. I'm fine with the tech specs and the high-end PS4 positioning.

If you read that interview House said they were suprised MS announced it this far out given how tech is usually annouced now days. They only acknowledged it to clear some concerns customers have been speaking.

I don't think Sony knew much about Scorpio. It was supposedly in response to the Neo in the first place.

Oh, right. I mis-remembered that....I still think Sony and MS know a lot of what each other are doing though.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Once again I don't understand why MS don't want to hit reset button with Scorpio. It's not like extend this gen or "get rid of gen" will do them any favor, I can understand market leader want the gen last forever but not the opposite.
No cutting tie with Xbox one will make it a huge holdback to Scorpio growth.

You really think MS could have hit the reset button after 4 years ?
Sales of the X1 already not that great and that would have just piss off people .
Plus pubs are not going to drop PS4 so that was always going to be the base for a while .
Then it would have also look bad comapre to Sony and depending on Scorpio price give them less room to adjust .

Truth is MS had to bring out another console because of Neo .
They could not ride out the rest of the gen (which normally 2 to 3 years more) with only X1 .
Letting Sony having 2 consoles on the market .
So bringing out a console a year later that more powerful is the best way to try and win back some market share .

 

[thuway]

Once again I don't understand why MS don't want to hit reset button with Scorpio. It's not like extend this gen or "get rid of gen" will do them any favor, I can understand market leader want the gen last forever but not the opposite.
No cutting tie with Xbox one will make it a huge holdback to Scorpio growth.

Because, irrespective of what hardcore fans on the internet would lead you to believe, throwing away 20+ million consumers into the dumpster of sub 720p, unoptimized, red-headed step child ports - is not going to sit well with the mainstream audience.

Unless all of Scorpio's power is going to be used to brute force 4K and high framerates- if an MS first party studio decides to dedicate their full resources to a 1080p/30FPS Scorpio title- PS4/Xbox One will not have a good day.

 

[gatti-man]

This was already debunked.

Yes I'm aware an insider said Sony had no plans to announce it at E3. That's all that was said. So no my opinion that Sony is changing TF output to compete with Scorpio hasn't been debunked. And also my doubt that neo launches this year because of their continued silence also hasn't been debunked.

I'm gonna assume "best = most powerful" here, so this statement is bloody wrong.

Once again you're incorrect here. Best means best. Most powerful without a price barrier is best. You can trace that all the way back. I'm not aware of one single time the best hardware barring barrier of price didn't win out. PS3 is an excellent example of best hardware taking a while to take off due to price barrier. Besides that I can't think of one single time best console didn't win the console war.

 

[Chobel]

Yes I'm aware an insider said Sony had no plans to announce it at E3. That's all that was said. So no my opinion that Sony is changing TF output to compete with Scorpio hasn't been debunked. And also my doubt that neo launches this year because of their continued silence also hasn't been debunked.



Once again you're incorrect here. Best means best. Most powerful without a price barrier is best. You can trace that all the way back. I'm not aware of one single time the best hardware barring barrier of price didn't win out. PS3 is an excellent example of best hardware taking a while to take off due to price barrier. Besides that I can't think of one single time best console didn't win the console war.

PS2 vs GC/Xbox.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I'm also taking forward compatibility, because that's what it is.

Just as scorpio games will be xbone games but better, eventually xbone 2 games will be Scorpio games but better. (And for many games that reach will also go all the way through xbone).

Obviously xbone won't be supported forever, it's absurd to expect it to, or to think that it will have to otherwise it won't be FC.

I gave that some thoughts and I guess you're right.

PS4/XBOX One games running better on Neo / Scorpio, or Neo/Scorpio games running downgraded on PS4/XBOX One, it's basically the same.

@quest
Of course that's right, but as Neo showed us Sony still preferred to go for that incremental upgrade while MS goes for an (almost) generational leap, costing them a whole year of additional waiting time. From that point of view, wouldn't it have been much smarter from Sony to also wait another year, to also use that break through in technology? No, they didn't. They have their strategy which is going for an incremental (yet cheap) upgrade of their existing SKU three years after the generation started. Which - I asume - they wouldn't have done if they planned to introduce a PS5 in 5-6 years.

 

[Metfanant]

PS2 vs GC/Xbox.

had over a year headstart...was a lot of people's first jump to a DVD player, and was coming off great success of the OG PlayStation...

the PS2 was a PERFECT STORM of variables

 

[Chobel]

had over a year headstart...was a lot of people's first jump to a DVD player, and was coming off great success of the OG PlayStation...

the PS2 was a PERFECT STORM of variables

I know, just pointing out that the "best console" can still lose console wars.

 

[Razgreez]

I know, just pointing out that the "best console" can still lose console wars.

What is the definition of 'best' anyway? Able to produce the most impressive visuals (most graphically powerful)?

 

[Chobel]

What is the definition of 'best' anyway? Able to produce the most impressive visuals (most graphically powerful)?

"Most powerful without a price barrier is best"

 

[Jean Valjean]

The best console is the one, in its generation, that has more games, with quality and quantity.

 

[Razgreez]

"Most powerful without a price barrier is best"

Power is relative though. Especially when it came to earlier consoles with a significant amount of silicon going to audio capabilities for example.

If it's just generally 'powerful' then I'd use N64 vs PS as example of 'best' not winning as well

 

[Chobel]

Power is relative though. Especially when it came to earlier consoles with a significant amount of silicon going to audio capabilities for example.

If it's just generally 'powerful' then I'd use N64 vs PS as example of 'best' not winning as well

It's not my definition, it's gatti-man's. N64 vs PS is another good example.

 

[gatti-man]

PS2 vs GC/Xbox.

GameCube was a disaster with developers. Xbox was killed early due to incredibly high hardware costs but lead directly into the success of the 360 and both went up against an established ps2 packed in with DVD player which actually makes it the best console under my definition.

At the time a DVD player was very expensive and new tech. The PS2 was the cheapest way to get a DVD player and it also played awesome games. This is the definition of best console.

If PS3 had launched at a competitive price point and similar time to the 360 it would have crushed Microsoft again due to its blu ray pack in. Unfortunately blu Ray wasn't ready for prime time had parts issues and drove the price up of the PS3 to the point of being a price barrier. This made the 360 the best console at that time. As time went on the PS3 price came down, developers figured out its hardware and it became the best console and overtook the 360 in sales.

It's not my definition, it's gatti-man's. N64 vs PS is another good example.

Price barrier again. Were you gaming during the n64? Games for that console were EXPENSIVE. Then when it became obvious RPGs wouldn't be on the n64 and that they were going to PlayStation due to superior hardware (the cd allowed for bigger games FF7) the n64 was effectively finished. How successful would ps4 be of xbone had $60 games and ps4 had $80-100 games? That's what n64 vs PlayStation was like.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

GameCube was a disaster with developers. Xbox was killed early due to incredibly high hardware costs but lead directly into the success of the 360 and both went up against an established ps2 packed in with DVD player which actually makes it the best console under my definition.

At the time a DVD player was very expensive and new tech. The PS2 was the cheapest way to get a DVD player and it also played awesome games. This is the definition of best console.

If PS3 had launched at a competitive price point and similar time to the 360 it would have crushed Microsoft again due to its blu ray pack in. Unfortunately blu Ray wasn't ready for prime time had parts issues and drove the price up of the PS3 to the point of being a price barrier. This made the 360 the best console at that time. As time went on the PS3 price came down, developers figured out its hardware and it became the best console and overtook the 360 in sales.

Dont forget the Wii.

 

[rpg_fan]

had over a year headstart...was a lot of people's first jump to a DVD player, and was coming off great success of the OG PlayStation...

the PS2 was a PERFECT STORM of variables

Just a thought. Neo is going to have a year headstart... will be a lot of people's first jump to a UHD player, and is coming off great success of the OG PlayStation 4.

 

[Chobel]

GameCube was a disaster with developers. Xbox was killed early due to incredibly high hardware costs but lead directly into the success of the 360 and both went up against an established ps2 packed in with DVD player which actually makes it the best console under my definition.

At the time a DVD player was very expensive and new tech. The PS2 was the cheapest way to get a DVD player and it also played awesome games. This is the definition of best console.

If PS3 had launched at a competitive price point and similar time to the 360 it would have crushed Microsoft again due to its blu ray pack in. Unfortunately blu Ray wasn't ready for prime time had parts issues and drove the price up of the PS3 to the point of being a price barrier. This made the 360 the best console at that time. As time went on the PS3 price came down, developers figured out its hardware and it became the best console and overtook the 360 in sales.



Price barrier again. Were you gaming during the n64? Games for that console were EXPENSIVE. Then when it became obvious RPGs wouldn't be on the n64 and that they were going to PlayStation due to superior hardware (the cd allowed for bigger games FF7) the n64 was effectively finished. How successful would ps4 be of xbone had $60 games and ps4 had $80-100 games? That's what n64 vs PlayStation was like.

You changed your definition of "best console" but whatever, Xbox OG still fits under this new definition: It had more powerful hardware than PS2, it had DVD player just like PS2 and it was priced exactly like PS2.

And while MS discontinued it early, it was available for 4 years and it was always selling behind PS2.

BTW: PS3 was always selling better than 360 (except maybe 2011).

Just a thought. Neo is going to have a year headstart... will be a lot of people's first jump to a UHD player, and is coming off great success of the OG PlayStation 4.

XB1S has UHD player though.

 

[farisr]

Just a thought. Neo is going to have a year headstart... will be a lot of people's first jump to a UHD player, and is coming off great success of the OG PlayStation 4.

And also likely to be decently priced* at launch, and definitely lower priced* when Scorpio launches.

*if these are the final specs (they likely are)

XB1S has UHD player though.

Doesn't mean the Neo can't be a lot of people's first jump to a UHD player. He didn't say it will be the first console with a UHD player on the market. Just that it'll likely be a lot of people's first UHD player.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

You changed your definition of "best console" but whatever, Xbox OG still fits under this new definition: It had more powerful hardware than PS2, it had DVD player just like PS2 and it was priced exactly like PS2.

And while MS discontinued it early, it was available for 4 years and it was always selling behind PS2.

Now, there is also a thing called "brand awareness".

But hey, the PS2's games lineup was just "unprecedented". The price going down to 199 rather quick (compared to PS4) surely didn't hurt, either.

 

[Chobel]

Now, there is also a thing called "brand awareness".

But hey, the PS2's games lineup was just "unprecedented". The price going down to 199 rather quick (compared to PS4) surely didn't hurt, either.

I know, there are that and other factors. I'm just offering a counter example to gatti-man statement of best hardware without a price barrier = console winner.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Your first mistake was saying PS4's level of success was only due to MS fucking up. It wasn't.

Sorta disagree here. It was a very major factor. The fact that Sony found such huge success when they played it pretty safe with a fairly standard "games console", decided to charge for multiplayer and basically released almost no noteworthy exclusives for the first year or so says MS' fuck ups played a massive role.