Don't say something stupid like this, she's obviously better. She is not a racist white nationalist that is trying to lure in a generation's darkest fears for her own personal gain.
CNN/ORC Poll: Trump 44%, Clinton 39%, Johnson 9%, Stein 3%
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boiled goose
good with gravy
I agree. But Hillary's flaws have to be recognized to have an honest discussion. A very hard thing to do on this forum sometimes.
You guys have to realize why people have this perception. Keep saying everything is fine, money in politics is not an issue, etc, etc, etc. And then people won't believe you when you say Trump is much worse.
Lord Frieza
Member
And it's not like Brexit is similar to...
Oh forget it. I said I gave up trying to explain it, and I'm going to stick with it. Maybe all the fear and panic is good, maybe it'll get people going. I don't know.
Are you from the future?
Epsilon-delta
Banned
I know. I was just saying if Hillary were to attack Trump his supporters would take it as an insult and double-down on their support for him.
Also, the reality is some people do not like when a woman corrects a man, no matter how right she may be, and comes out as a turn off.
Liamario
Banned
Yes, yes you are. Donald Trump will be the next president of the USA. Think about that long and hard. Let it soak in.
The message of "hope" has to work beyond the people already voting for her though.
What does double down their support even mean you can only vote once. They were sure they were going to vote for him before, but now they are doubly shore.
I don't mean he's dangerous in the sense that he's untested.
He advocated a warcrime when he wanted to kill the families of terrorists.
This is not in the same league.
Lord Frieza
Member
Where is this complacency? Who is being complacent?
That wouldn't be funny at all. It would be almost as terrifying as a Trump victory.
Lord Frieza
Member
Yeah, and? So what? They already support him, and there's clearly no swaying these people, so the last thing she needs to do is try to cater to that group.
That's what the convention will be hoping to do though. That's the point. She's not gonna speaking to her base, that's not why she picked Tim Kaine and not Liz ForMa or Bernie. She's going after moderates and the middle-of-the-road voter.
The problem may just come down to those voters having an irrational hatred of her, which is a hard thing to shake, regardless of having a much better platform. And all the email controversies will play in to that. If suburban voters in PA/VA/FL voters suddenly decide they trust Trump and his idiocy more than her, then that's the election.
I'm also starting to suspect it's a honeypot to call Trump a racist.
It's so easy and so satisfying, and everyone hates racism, right? Let's just call Trump a racist, in louder and louder ways, from now until the election. Can't lose.
It's a trap. Unless he's caught with a klan hood in his suitcase, it will never catch up with him.
It's so easy and so satisfying, and everyone hates racism, right? Let's just call Trump a racist, in louder and louder ways, from now until the election. Can't lose.
It's a trap. Unless he's caught with a klan hood in his suitcase, it will never catch up with him.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Spread their hateful message even more across social media, while pointing out how Hillary is a bully.
Clinton supports the destruction of the Palestinian people so yeah...
Melkezadek
Member
That still wouldn't change anything.
I could definitely see this happening.
Sorc3r3r
Member
Yeah, I have a totally different view on Trump speechs and promises , what you say to be elected is not what you will do when you are elected,at least here is how it works, he is selling really well a product that in my opinion will never reach the shelves.
He is leading the whole debate going from provocation to provocation, getting media space trying winning this way.
This has been done here by Berlusconi, i have already seen this whole game.
So in the end i think that he is not dangerous nearly as much as you think, and if elected will opt the usual political line.
I think a real problem, one that is not being discussed enough, is the damage to the perception of politicians that Trump is wreaking.
Most politicians, contrary to popular perception, deliver on their promises. They keep their weird. The average American lives with a contradiction - s/he believes that in the abstract, politicians are corrupt windblowers but at the same time, s/he votes for the same dammed politicians because they consistently make good on campaign promises and listen to their constituents.
Now, the problem is that Trump is feeding into that perception of corrupt politics without offering a balancing perspective of accountability and honesty. Well, he says it is but his actions contradict his words to the point that they're unbelievable, and his party's argument for rallying is that they can override him when push comes to shove.
It's hard to overstate how damaging to the office of President this is. It's unbelievable how much the entire electorial process suffers as a result. The Presidency is the highest elected office of the land. What sort of message is the Republican party (not Trump himself)sending to their constituents?
That elected officials can be ceremonial figureheads that can be bypassed as circumstance calls? That elected officials are corrupt stooges who routinely break their promises since 'their word is as good as their bond'?
I think Trump has already done irreparable damage to the prestige of elected office in this election. I can only hope that whoever wins the election will restore that prestige through action.
Most politicians, contrary to popular perception, deliver on their promises. They keep their weird. The average American lives with a contradiction - s/he believes that in the abstract, politicians are corrupt windblowers but at the same time, s/he votes for the same dammed politicians because they consistently make good on campaign promises and listen to their constituents.
Now, the problem is that Trump is feeding into that perception of corrupt politics without offering a balancing perspective of accountability and honesty. Well, he says it is but his actions contradict his words to the point that they're unbelievable, and his party's argument for rallying is that they can override him when push comes to shove.
It's hard to overstate how damaging to the office of President this is. It's unbelievable how much the entire electorial process suffers as a result. The Presidency is the highest elected office of the land. What sort of message is the Republican party (not Trump himself)sending to their constituents?
That elected officials can be ceremonial figureheads that can be bypassed as circumstance calls? That elected officials are corrupt stooges who routinely break their promises since 'their word is as good as their bond'?
I think Trump has already done irreparable damage to the prestige of elected office in this election. I can only hope that whoever wins the election will restore that prestige through action.
Yes and no. With white people it won't catch on, but it has already caught on with minorities. Trump loosing could very well doom the Republican party. This is pretty much an all in move for them right now as the country is starting to shift into a minority majority. If they don't win now they are going to suffer some severe consequences as the minority vote grows.
shadow_shogun
Member
No kidding, that was what I was thinking this morning.
Melkezadek
Member
I guess Obama must too then, right?
I agree that there absolutely needs to be discussion of a viable two-state solution and America's continuous support of Israel illegal settlements , but this is complete hyperbole. She does not support the destruction of the Palestinian people. That's completely disingenuous.
Orniletter
Banned
As another European looking in shock, horror and sheer bewilderment at your post and Trump's popularity as a whole, you are for holding that "opinion".
Lord Frieza
Member
Well, excuse people who don't just assume we're going to do a full 180 and be a completely different person than he is, or has been for as long as he's been in the public spotlight. This is a dangerous, dangerous, attitude to have
So no, is probably a better thing to add at the end.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Not true.
But
Ironically Trump's rhetoric on this issue might be to the left of Clinton.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Always go on the assumption a presidential candidate will fulfill their campaign promises, as there's good evidence they generally do.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
Trump has officially led on RCP more days (three!) than Mittens did in the entirety of 2012 (just two days).
Of course, Mitt and Obama were close poll wise throughout. Here it's Trump constantly going up and down with Hillary and Trump trying to outscandal each other.
Trump has officially led on RCP more days (three!) than Mittens did in the entirety of 2012 (just two days).
Of course, Mitt and Obama were close poll wise throughout. Here it's Trump constantly going up and down with Hillary and Trump trying to outscandal each other.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Hate is always easier to sell to people than hope.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Yup, add fear in there as well.
Obama made it look easy but Hillary ain't Obama.
SaviourMK2
Member
I'm just disgusted, absolutely disgusted he's made it this far and had the potential to make it all the way.
Enjoy President Pence, cause you fucking damn well know Trump's business motto: Do none of the work, take all the credit.
Enjoy President Pence, cause you fucking damn well know Trump's business motto: Do none of the work, take all the credit.
So you're saying that a candidate whose policies are a complete mystery is an only marginally worse candidate than someone who has made their positions clear on issues throughout a long career in politics?
This is if you are right and he's just saying whatever it takes to get elected, which I don't believe. Some of his statements, yes, but his racism goes back many years, and in my opinion that's the rotten spring from which everything else flows.
The compressed timeline of veep/convention is important to note. Also, unfortunately, Hillary is not Obama.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
And Trump isn't Romney.
Trump is unfit for office can't people realize this?
Trump is Rorschach's wet dream President
Dangansona
Member
I WILL AND IT WON'T MATTER BECAUSE I LIVE IN SOUTH CAROLINA!!!
Angelus Errare
Banned
His numbers would increase
Really? Sure Sanders was "new" for a large portion of the public, but that only means defining him would be that much easier. Non-stop super PAC ads calling him a socialist and citing how high taxes would go under his plans would be very effective.
Essentially, you're kidding yourself if you think Sanders would be doing much better than Clinton is now.
Sorc3r3r
Member
That just my opinion, can be dangerous, but since i have seen it in action more than one time seems to me that Trump is playing that game.
Lord Frieza
Member
Are you still pretty confident in a Hillary victory, though, Kev?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Trump is going to pull this off...
Hope Hillary knows her legacy if she loses is to be remembered as the fucking idiot that lost to Donald Trump.
Hope Hillary knows her legacy if she loses is to be remembered as the fucking idiot that lost to Donald Trump.
It's not a confidence thing. I believe she will win, but the important thing is that people not panic about every little thing and miss the forest for the trees. It's hard in the thick of it.
^ like such
Hexa
Member
I wonder if that's what he's actually gunning for. Gets to keep his pride and boost his ego, but doesn't actually have to be president. That's why he's actually spending money on NY and CA.
You had that with young Obama, and it worked, got my Republican ass to vote for him.
But now it's Hillary, they should have pushed for another young inspirational type (well as young as they could be)
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