That's what I've been thinking.
Reddit Compiles Definitive List of All NMS Missing Features/False Marketing +Sources
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That's what I've been thinking.
MisterR
Member
Doesn't matter. The list is just the excuse.
Chill Penguin
Member
Oh dear god how did we not see this coming. Sean Murray is so full of shit it's hilarious.
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/02/artificial-universe-no-mans-sky/463308/
Wow, a frankly insane number of players just experienced crippling glitches! It's a credit to our coders that these glitches even exist.
We expected glitches, but this many and on the first day - it's truly amazing!
Bingo. All he had to do was be honest about that one thing, prior to launch or at launch, and at the latest when those reddit guys met. Pretending on twitter that they had actually met properly was so bizarre, like a magician pretending he guessed your card correctly when you're standing there telling him 'That wasn't my card'.
Just such a weird, dishonest way to go about things.
UncleSporky
Member
Minecraft had 18 quintillion planets long before No Man's Sky.
I've also been to places no one has been and seen things others haven't. Even though I haven't been to every single seed I'm still fairly confident there aren't any ferris wheels in the base game.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
That article is such cringey PR.
We know but don't spoil it for other players!
The Silver
Member
some people did, they just got shouted down and ganged up on because of the hype machine
ScatheZombie
Member
Not entirely.
Every team I've been on has had a Sean Murray or Peter Molyneux at the lead level. They would just spout off things they wanted in the game, rather than things that actually were - not because of any anti-consumer nefarious purpose, but because they actually wanted to do those things and thought they (read: the team) could get it done. We knew that every single time that person got in front of a camera or microphone they needed a PR person there to shut them the fuck up before they over-promised the world. Sometimes it worked and we'd keep them in check and other times another fucking feature just got added to the product or we all look like assholes.
Everyone on the team largely hated that motherfucker, but he was always in a boss-level position so no one could really do anything about it. We literally had office pools and running jokes about what new thing this person would say at E3 or Gamescom that the rest of us would have to struggle to implement at the last damn minute. I actually won that pool once. I really, really wish I hadn't.
This does not excuse or defend anything; it's merely an explanation that Sean Murray isn't a unique snowflake in the games industry. There's hundreds of people who run their mouth about the game they want to make rather than the one they are actually making. The difference is that most of them work for studios that know enough to keep them on a very short leash. Hello Games doesn't have the experience to do this (or the manpower to compensate for it) and Sony clearly wasn't hands-on enough to prevent it.
The list would be better if it didnt constantly stray from its faux-objectivity into shallow editiorialising.
I also think that, while there are some lies or things that if not lies need to be directly addressed, this whole "THEY LIED!" thing has gained so much momentum that everything is now a lie, as opposed to possibly simply the result of development. If something popped up only in a three year old video and hasnt been referenced since then surely I'm partially to blame for expecting it to be in? It's unreasonable to expect them to go back to videos that are years old and issue statements saying "Minor thing x,y and z! aren't in the game anymore" Don't get me wrong, its pissing me off that I havent seen any sweet dinosaurs or that fucking sandworm, but some of the stuff is lies and some is just, well, why you shouldnt take E3 showreels too seriously.
It absolutely would have, this game was always going under the microscope
The theory that "He's lying to sell more games to people he's duped!" always seem to rely on the, lets be charitable and call it unlikely as opposed to bullshit, scenario where these consumers are informed enough to think there will be multiplayer, yet not so well informed that they can read a box or a steam profile page, nor so well informed that they have come across any of the multitude of mentions of it online? These poor special unicorn consumers seem unlikely to exist in such numbers that selling games to them would make Murray's conspiracy of lies worthwhile.
Yes, that is an accurate summary of how the pre-release threads went
I also think that, while there are some lies or things that if not lies need to be directly addressed, this whole "THEY LIED!" thing has gained so much momentum that everything is now a lie, as opposed to possibly simply the result of development. If something popped up only in a three year old video and hasnt been referenced since then surely I'm partially to blame for expecting it to be in? It's unreasonable to expect them to go back to videos that are years old and issue statements saying "Minor thing x,y and z! aren't in the game anymore" Don't get me wrong, its pissing me off that I havent seen any sweet dinosaurs or that fucking sandworm, but some of the stuff is lies and some is just, well, why you shouldnt take E3 showreels too seriously.
It absolutely would have, this game was always going under the microscope
The theory that "He's lying to sell more games to people he's duped!" always seem to rely on the, lets be charitable and call it unlikely as opposed to bullshit, scenario where these consumers are informed enough to think there will be multiplayer, yet not so well informed that they can read a box or a steam profile page, nor so well informed that they have come across any of the multitude of mentions of it online? These poor special unicorn consumers seem unlikely to exist in such numbers that selling games to them would make Murray's conspiracy of lies worthwhile.
Yes, that is an accurate summary of how the pre-release threads went
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Fractology
Member
Quote from this Gamespot article July 20th, 2014: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-story-behind-no-mans-skys-show-stopping-e3/1100-6420976/
"To give you an example of some problems, we planned out what our demo was, and then we had to find somewhere in the universe to set it. So I flew around for quite some time, a couple of days, looking for a planet that particularly suited it. So I had to pick that planet, but also find another planet that was nearby that I was going to fly to, and kind of engineer this situation where there was going to be things to fight in between. And then you actually end up having to deal with really weird things like the time of day on the planet it starts from, and what animals are going to be out at the time of day, and what time of day it is on the planet you land on. We wanted that to be daytime, and that's really hard to plan, and it just doesn't happen that easily." [Hence the "triggers." They were there to create a more condensed quick trailer experience]
I seem to remember it being stated elsewhere. But he talked opening about engineering the first E3 demo like that. Then they went to make a more freeform one for the following years E3 instead because they wanted to show a free flowing and longer experience.
BronzeWolf
Banned
Hey guys I am selling a car
no tires, brakes and windows included
Thought I'd check in as someone who is happy with my purchase of the game, on PC no less.
The marketing for the game seems pretty typical to me, in that its trying to sell you a product, not be a dispassionate and exquisitely subdued description of the game.
Taking a glance through that reddit post I already see things that I disagree with. For example "Faction Affiliations w/ Significance" is supposed to be a problem? There are different factions. I can ally with one faction and war with another if I choose. Exactly as described in the video. I see multiple other items are already crossed out, perhaps this will be yet another?
In the end I have no doubt it doesn't have every feature it was ever hyped up to have or that they hoped it would have at launch. The point is that hardly any games would stand up much better if you pour over bit of pre-release material looking for supposed discrepancies.
Its a video game on offer like ANY other. You can buy it blind, rely on marketing, wait for reviews, you can even sit down and just watch others play the game endlessly. There is nothing uniquely sinister or outrageous going on here.
The marketing for the game seems pretty typical to me, in that its trying to sell you a product, not be a dispassionate and exquisitely subdued description of the game.
Taking a glance through that reddit post I already see things that I disagree with. For example "Faction Affiliations w/ Significance" is supposed to be a problem? There are different factions. I can ally with one faction and war with another if I choose. Exactly as described in the video. I see multiple other items are already crossed out, perhaps this will be yet another?
In the end I have no doubt it doesn't have every feature it was ever hyped up to have or that they hoped it would have at launch. The point is that hardly any games would stand up much better if you pour over bit of pre-release material looking for supposed discrepancies.
Its a video game on offer like ANY other. You can buy it blind, rely on marketing, wait for reviews, you can even sit down and just watch others play the game endlessly. There is nothing uniquely sinister or outrageous going on here.
Well it's possible you'll ship them to me later so I don't mind.
The problem is none of this was transparency. It was pageantry, a sales pitch.
You're not quite following me. You're talking about promises before release. I get that. I'm talking about his attitude once it was on store shelves and in players' hands. Sure, you promise you'll build a 20 foot swimming pool but only have the tools to do it 16 feet. It happens. But don't stand there and ignore me when I ask you why it's 16 feet and not 20. The work is done, it's set in stone, the time for pretending is over.
In the present his attitude towards the lack of multiplayer and refusal to address it can't be because he's this daydreaming exaggerator. We know what the game is now, he has to face the music. And he won't. He won't give a simple answer about whether the promised feature is actually in the game. That's bizarre, and it's outside the paradigm you've described in your post.
This isn't the new call of duty. This game, more than any other, has been pored over by a voracious and highly motivated fanbase from the start. That is how it found success. I'd suggest that the average consumer for this game was a very well-informed hardcore gamer.
Thanks for posting this OP. I was hesitating on No Man's Sky because of the announcement that reviewers wouldn't get advanced copies. I still was interested post launch but I couldn't get a handle of the state of the game till now.
It's really disappointing to know that what I saw in trailers just a month ago either don't exist or are too rare that it practically doesn't exist.
It's a shame they relied on vague promises to sell and hype up this game. I hesitated on calling out on that behavior because I genuinely thought they had the skill to pull it off but just like Alien Colonial Marines devs can lie really well about the state of their game with a nice looking vertical slice.
I'm in my 30s and still was too slow to react to the bullshit behavior.
It's really disappointing to know that what I saw in trailers just a month ago either don't exist or are too rare that it practically doesn't exist.
It's a shame they relied on vague promises to sell and hype up this game. I hesitated on calling out on that behavior because I genuinely thought they had the skill to pull it off but just like Alien Colonial Marines devs can lie really well about the state of their game with a nice looking vertical slice.
I'm in my 30s and still was too slow to react to the bullshit behavior.
Prototype Viktor
Member
It's a pretty staggering list when you go through it. My concern is given all the time in the world to fix it, most of this stuff will probably never make it in. The game already seems strained enough, how do they go about adding even half of what was mentioned to the PS4 version without tanking it?
I really wanted to believe in this game but Hello Games only showing off very controlled demos was always a massive red flag for me. I don't think the press even got to play until, what was it, April of this year? Halo 2 taught me to never believe anything from devs unless it's been already shown in a public playable demo.
Insane Metal
Member
I guess someone didn't understand me... that was sarcasm.
This interview needs to be top of the OP with quotes taken from it. No doubt they were laughing their heads off when they were doing the interview. And the scary thing is it wasn't just Sean Murray, the rest of the team made quotes too.
I suppose it's kind of like that bully that befriends you and takes you to a party and pulls your pants down.
ive never had that happen
Also I was going to get it on discount, but now I'm not going to give them a cent.
potatohead
Member
I would've bought if it was gonna launch for $20 or $15 like it probably should've.
That's what I thought it was gonna go for when they announced it at least.
That's what I thought it was gonna go for when they announced it at least.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Now this is a conversation I think is worth having.
I was talking with a fellow gaffer earlier about the planetary rotation and I provided this video because I thought it would be interesting to them because their theory was that planetary rotation was never in the game and I thought this helped prove that.
I believe this video would interest you. https://archives.nucl.ai/recording/b...n-no-mans-sky/
Fast forward to 41:14...
You can tell she felt really embarrassed while she was dodging the real question. I wonder who it was who told her to do that?
Even before watching that vid though I always felt really bad for the rest of the team. I think it was our own Thomasmahller who was also a dev on Ori who stated that he hated the way that Sean always made everything about him. He was upset that Sean also had his name as the official twitter handle instead of Hello Games which would better represent the entire studio.
I really wish Hello Games would issue an official statement before the weeks out, whether you are enjoying the game or not people who bought it do deserve some clarity. It would also make these threads less of the same posters advancing the same arguments in some kind of oddly synchronised debate.
That make's your argument, well you're hardly the only one who advanced it, so lets say the argument, even stupider. He's keeping silent to trick these well-informed hardcore gamers into buying the game purely on the promise of limited multiplayer which they almost inevitably know isnt in the game unless they got the PS4 version early day 1? Yeah, he must be raking in the cash with that scheme.
Surely it makes his new silence suspicious? I'm interested to hear how it makes his previous openness suspicious.
That make's your argument, well you're hardly the only one who advanced it, so lets say the argument, even stupider. He's keeping silent to trick these well-informed hardcore gamers into buying the game purely on the promise of limited multiplayer which they almost inevitably know isnt in the game unless they got the PS4 version early day 1? Yeah, he must be raking in the cash with that scheme.
Surely it makes his new silence suspicious? I'm interested to hear how it makes his previous openness suspicious.
Nostremitus
Member
Animals do eat animals... I've lost a flying animal I was trying to scan because a carnivorous animal ran up to and took it.
It was already dead before it fell from the sky. It took the corpse.
Traders land their ships on landing pads throughout the game.... whether those are the same ones flying from planet to planet or not is another thing entirely, though. Any place with multiple landing pads essentially becomes a swap meet.
Omega Kirby
Member
Sean will never be seen the same anymore. Now every game he gets behind will always be super scrutinized
aggienader
Member
Spot on.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'd argue that you're vastly overstating the difficulty of marketing this game.
Regardless, a lot of the backlash stems from this reality:
Before the game came out, Sean wouldn't be quiet. He had interviews, presentations and was super active on social media.
Game comes out, Sean is no longer communicative. Fans have questions, things appear to have changed from what they were marketed, and there are no answers. That makes his former transparency and openness seem like a farce and suspicious.
Even when filtered through PR people something like this list would be made. There are perfectly valid excuses for dropping feature X.
However they're only valid if you communicate them.
aggienader
Member
This is a really really great post. Thank you for sharing that. Really puts things into perspective.
Insane Metal
Member
That crowbcat video.
HOLY SHIT.
HOLY SHIT.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Guys, you can't prove anything until all 18 quintillion planets have been scoured inch by inch. Every "missing" feature, and then some. Cure for cancer? 18 quintillion planets. One probably has the answer. Room full of monkeys writing Shakespear? 18 quintillion planets.
Blueingreen
Member
So what are the chances of them patching in half these missing features in the following updates ?
Icyflamez96
Member
The thing that confuses me about Sean Murray is, he came off like he's very conscious of not being that guy. When he first revealed that there were NPCs in the game, it was a surprise because he previously said multiple times that there were no NPCs. When asked by an interviewer why he previously said there were no NPCs, Sean answered by saying something like "I didn't want to promise a feature that we wouldn't know for sure could be implemented how we wanted, but it was always part of the vision"
He also talked much about managing expectations. There's a video with him on the topic of Spore and NMS. He dropped Peter Molyneux jokes as if he was confident he wouldn't be seen that way, because I'm sure he must feel real silly about that now considering many people see him like that at the moment. Really does make me think they were confident that they could deliver on their vision and had many of these things implemented at some point, but had to scale back for whatever reasons (probably technical).
Emperor_Uriel
Member
This. Murray thought he could really have all of this stuff in the game because he's not an experienced dev and has no idea whats required to actually implement it.
Ironically, Murray himself was the first one whose imagination ran wild with unrealistic expectations when he was presented with the base tech. He was a man with apparently little technical knowledge in charge of a team that was making his own dream game, with lots of funding and nobody keeping the PR in line. Not a good combo.
I feel like it shouldn't take a PR department for a developer to know that you shouldn't talk about a feature that's not at least mostly completed. I get that you want gamers to be excited and super passionate about your game, but have some common sense.
We still playing the innocent card? Murray and his team knew exactly what they were doing when they made those quotes and gave those interviews. Read the quotes from The Atlantic interview.
They all sound delusional.
But even this appears to be a lie, because there are features that aren't in the final game, I expect that what they showed at E3 was just a completely handcrafted vertical slice. There's to many instances where he talks about some feature working in the game, and at the end it just doesn't exist. Those early demos had giant rhinos knocking down trees in the forest. You're telling me they had that feature working well enough to show off... And then decided to drop it?
I suspect that four months ago the game was a completely broken mess and they just threw together the simplest shit they could get working and focused on the bare minimum features they needed to deliver on the idea of the game, even if itbwas a basic imitation of what was promised.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Can you check that link? It doesn't work and I'm keen to watch it
Does that make it ok to lie, because we should have been smart enough to see thru the lies?
Saucycarpdog
Member
Are you saying you're a BvS fan? You're the one defending a mediocre product.
BlackBanditSho
Member
Can you check that link? It doesn't work and I'm keen to watch it
it's on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KHLwQ9IY-s