Support NeoGAF

[Doug Heffernan]

Well yeah.

Blizzard sucks, so I'm sure they won't actually do the right thing and add a character with a disguise kit and backstab and sentry sapper.

rip overwatch you had a good run

No. What keeps the spy from being OP in TF2 is the existence of the pyro to spy-check. Overwatch doesn't have anyone like the pyro. Unless they simultaneously release another character capable of spy-checking, a spy will not work in Overwatch!

 

[Thewonandonly]

Damn I really hate how this count down isn't steady and basically it's whenever the fuck they want to change the njmber. So not really a count down haha

 

[spiritfox]

We can always have an invisibility hero if its done right.


They shouldn't be able to OHK

They should have a fixed amount of 100% invisibility where firing is impossible but still can get randomly hit

They should have a sound signal when they come out of invisibility

The rest is up to the imagination

What's the point then? There're so many heroes with gap closers.

 

[klaushm]

Yeah. This would be supported by the things said about her in that Ana/Soldier 76 comic they release around Ana's launch. Not a stealth person but a hacker.

We can always have an invisibility hero if its done right.


They shouldn't be able to OHK

They should have a fixed amount of 100% invisibility where firing is impossible but still can get randomly hit

They should have a sound signal when they come out of invisibility

The rest is up to the imagination

Invisibility, normally, is disabled in most games when shotted or an action is made, like attacking. That could be a way.

I preffer the "information is power" approach, like you are saying. I didn't think of cameras view, that would be great. What I think of was marking an enemy that was on sombra sight to be seen through walls(as Widowmaker ult), but only one, within 40m and 3s after that limit, for one character at a time(like Zenyatta Orb of Discord). And it's ult, would be opposed to Lucio's, which would gave "weak spots" or made the damage taken higher by all enemies at a X area. Information is power, so it would make sense that Sombra knows the heroes weak spots.

 

[Piers]

Invisibility, normally, is disabled in most games when shotted or an action is made, like attacking. That could be a way.

I preffer the "information is power" approach, like you are saying. I didn't think of cameras view, that would be great. What I think of was marking an enemy that was on sombra sight to be seen through walls(as Widowmaker ult), but only one, within 40m and 3s after that limit, for one character at a time(like Zenyatta Orb of Discord). And it's ult, would be opposed to Lucio's, which would gave "weak spots" or made the damage taken higher by all enemies at a X area. Information is power, so it would make sense that Sombra knows the heroes weak spots.

That sounds good, though on casual that could cause some problems on stopping inevitable key players too easily. Sombra could wait to see who is "on fire" and then make it super easy for the team to track him/her and take them out, taking away a lot of intended balance.

Obviously that's suppose to happen either way with team communicating, though Blizzard probably have to consider the different circumstances players are in for character balancing.

 

[Hanmik]

It is funny to look at the site amomentincrime.com via waybackmachine.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160501000000*/http://www.amomentincrime.com

turns out the site was owned by some writer back in 2007.

the very first entry the site finds..

Set in the lovely, wild areas of New Hampshire's White Mountains, readers will delight in the charms of the local inn while trying to puzzle out this old-style mystery.

Blizzard conditions in a New Hampshire mountain pass result in a tragic, but hardly surprising accident, which becomes the catalyst for a series of what seem unrelated events. A desperate effort to find a missing hiker leads rescue teams toward dangers quite outside their experience, dangers can't be put down to bad luck.

Rock climber Greg Taylor becomes increasingly convinced that it was no accident. Combining his own natural gifts for detection with those of an elderly busybody, they become a team that is a threat to somebody!

From chocolate cake to Crème Brûlée, hazards appear at every corner. This lively mystery spans only a few short days, but readers quickly discover that every clue counts...

lol... I know it isn't related.. but it is still funny..

there is only one subpage for the page that has had any movement lately..
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.amomentincrime.com/*

http://web.archive.org/web/20160201000000*/http://amomentincrime.com/robots.txt

again this doesn't mean anything-... but so does this ARG.

 

[klaushm]

That sounds good, though on casual that could cause some problems on stopping inevitable key players too easily. Sombra could wait to see who is "on fire" and then make it super easy for the team to track him/her and take them out, taking away a lot of intended balance.

Obviously that's suppose to happen either way with team communicating, though Blizzard probably have to consider the different circumstances players are in for character balancing.

That's a valid point, but in that regard, I think Zenyatta do a better job. Orb of Discord is cancelled when killed, "marks" the enemy and the damage is increased by +50%(it will be lowered now, right?). I think that's easier to kill than just showing it's position.

You are right, balancing characters is the key.

And, sadly, my thoughts is that Sombra will be a defence character... I would love that the new character added would be a tank or support, even with the last one been Ana.

 

[dave is ok]

This is the laziest ARG I've ever seen in my life.

A plain HTML website, with a % counter that goes up arbitrarily with no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Even the Potato Power site was better.

 

[hydruxo]

This is the laziest ARG I've ever seen in my life.

A plain HTML website, with a % counter that goes up arbitrarily with no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Even the Potato Power site was better.

It's weird isn't it? The skycoder post on their forums was well done but then they've just got the momentincrime basic HTML shit. The whole thing is a mess.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

No. What keeps the spy from being OP in TF2 is the existence of the pyro to spy-check. Overwatch doesn't have anyone like the pyro. Unless they simultaneously release another character capable of spy-checking, a spy will not work in Overwatch!

"No one can hide from my sight." + Hanzo's sonar arrow.

 

[Landford]

So Sombra is Athena being hacked by Reaper?

 

[Yayate]

No. What keeps the spy from being OP in TF2 is the existence of the pyro to spy-check. Overwatch doesn't have anyone like the pyro. Unless they simultaneously release another character capable of spy-checking, a spy will not work in Overwatch!

Nah not really. Spy is considered all around bad in higher levels of play. Spy is not countered by the Pyro, he's countered by having any modicum of awareness.

 

[Hanmik]

It's weird isn't it? The skycoder post on their forums was well done but then they've just got the momentincrime basic HTML shit. The whole thing is a mess.

skycoder on twitter has his/hers birthday today.:!

 

[Auctopus]

"No one can hide from my sight." + Hanzo's sonar arrow.

Ok, a Sonar arrow picking up Sombra would be the coolest thing. Do people think she will be literally invisible?

 

[dave is ok]

skycoder on twitter has his/hers birthday today.:!

I don't think anything on twitter is canon - I think a bunch of fansites got excited and all decided to gamejack.

 

[Forkball]

They need to announce this so I can plan my level up lootboxes accordingly.

 

[Hanmik]

I don't think anything on twitter is canon - I think a bunch of fansites got excited and all decided to gamejack.

I know... the whole thing is just plain stupid. The Lamest ARG this century..

 

[hydruxo]

They need to announce this so I can plan my level up lootboxes accordingly.

Yeah same, I'm at 97 right now. Kinda contemplating taking a break when I get prestige for that reason lol.

 

[Prelude.]

This is the laziest ARG I've ever seen in my life.

A plain HTML website, with a % counter that goes up arbitrarily with no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Even the Potato Power site was better.

They've been doing different stuff for more than a month, this percentage bullshit is just one of the many thing they did. Even if I can't directly participate, like 99.99% of the Overwatch fanbase, the previous stuff was somewhat entertaining to watch.

 

[dave is ok]

They've been doing different stuff for more than a month, this percentage bullshit is just one of the many thing they did. Even if I can't directly participate, like 99.99% of the Overwatch fanbase, the previous stuff was somewhat entertaining to watch.

It started to get interesting the past week or so and then they stonewall with this shit.

 

[pizzacat]

No. What keeps the spy from being OP in TF2 is the existence of the pyro to spy-check. Overwatch doesn't have anyone like the pyro. Unless they simultaneously release another character capable of spy-checking, a spy will not work in Overwatch!

Mei
Widows super
Hanzos track arrow
Zenns discord (and healing)
Lucios (the most prominent healer) heal or speed giving off a yellow or green aura around the people being affected by it
Literally every healer can affect this.
Something like Anas grenade can work like milk or jarate


What keeps spy from being op is that he is up from the beginning, he becomes useless if anyone is talking to each other and if he's caught by randoms. The idea of spy is like the idea of that bastion in a corner, it's going to work once but people will overcome it.

A spy could work, they'd have to move as slow as he does (or maybe like Hanzo before ptr) and backstabs do headshot dmg. Meaning it would have to be hero used to annoy them and they would need some type of invul/invis ability to escape. I was thinking a grenade like Ana's that they throw at their feet to become invis or turn their teammates invis

 

[Wendel Clark]

The fact that you can see what heroes the enemy team are playing (unlike tf2) is game ruining for a "spy-like" character. You don't need a spy checker if you know there's a spy in the game.

 

[Prelude.]

It started to get interesting the past week or so and then they stonewall with this shit.

What they did on the 23rd was cool, since it gave us that medical records picture, the main problem of what they're doing now was not giving some kind of "reward" at the end of the Skycoder countdown, and only presented this new arbitrary percentage thing. As long as you show any kind of new stuff after a puzzle or similar it's fine to continue with the riddles, but doing this only leads to frustration.
And again, I don't think that setting up a participative effort puzzle solving event where pretty much no one can participate is a particularly good idea, but if someone can solve it and present new clues to the community, I'm somewhat ok with it.

 

[Meia]

The fact that you can see what heroes the enemy team are playing (unlike tf2) is game ruining for a "spy-like" character. You don't need a spy checker if you know there's a spy in the game.

They could just as easily throw a random hero(not picked for sake of competitive) for it to work like it does in TF2. The other concern from TF2 though is the team size in overwatch is obviously much smaller.



I doubt it'll work exactly like a spy would. I can see it doing big damage a certain way, but small any other(massive headshot, low bodyshot/ massive from behind, low from in front), and instead of stealthing having the ability to disable electronics via grenade or something. Rein being very strong in the meta is still something that probably concerns them, so the ability to just turn it off for a few seconds?

 

[DevilDog]

What's the point then? There're so many heroes with gap closers.

Combining this with other abilities is the point. It can be used as a gap closer/escape mechanism/ in combination with her hacking skills, who knows.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

The fact that you can see what heroes the enemy team are playing (unlike tf2) is game ruining for a "spy-like" character. You don't need a spy checker if you know there's a spy in the game.

...... Good point, well made.

 

[Azure Dream]

One of the problems with the Spy is that they used to have a lot of tells. As the dedicated players got better, Valve actively counter-acted these tells, to try to make Spy viable. But they simultaneously made it harder and harder for new players, and really, really annoying for average players, to deal with. One halfway decent Spy could absorb a lot of your time, and they've had plenty of tools that could make them almost impossible to kill over the years if they learned where the ammo boxes were. (As an aside, I'm really glad Overwatch doesn't have ammo boxes to deal with. Health pickups are bad enough.)

Maybe Blizzard could do it better, but I really would be fine with them not mimicking that particular set of mechanics. Please don't make me "spy check" in Overwatch.

 

[Symbiotx]

I was hyped when the forum post had a countdown, but when it was just more clues and countdowns I was disappointed. Release some real info or knock it off.

 

[Phu]

One of the problems with the Spy is that they used to have a lot of tells. As the dedicated players got better, Valve actively counter-acted these tells, to try to make Spy viable. But they simultaneously made it harder and harder for new players, and really, really annoying for average players, to deal with. One halfway decent Spy could absorb a lot of your time, and they've had plenty of tools that could make them almost impossible to kill over the years if they learned where the ammo boxes were. (As an aside, I'm really glad Overwatch doesn't have ammo boxes to deal with. Health pickups are bad enough.)

Maybe Blizzard could do it better, but I really would be fine with them not mimicking that particular set of mechanics. Please don't make me "spy check" in Overwatch.

I never really liked the Spy much in TF2, but I think it would be more interesting if we got an invisible/sneaky character who specialized in getting behind the enemy and quietly setting up traps where they will fall back/regroup. Finishing off those scrambling for health, preventing retreat, basically specializing in making you question whether your safe spots are gonna actually be safe. It would also help out friendly flankers and help deal with enemy flankers. I think something different like that could work better for game balance than a more direct character like the Spy.

 

[ekim]

Downloading a 400MB patch on PTR. hm... Nothing in the Patch Notes

 

[Dimitri LH]

Downloading a 400MB patch on PTR. hm... Nothing in the Patch Notes

Hmm.....how big are character files usually?

 

[TatteredHat]

Ok they're overdoing it now.

 

[pizzacat]

Hmm.....how big are character files usually?

Wasn't Ana 300?

 

[Manoko]

Downloading a 400MB patch on PTR. hm... Nothing in the Patch Notes

Hmm.....how big are character files usually?

Wasn't Ana 300?

You guys are killing me, I can't take this anymore !!!

 

[Squire]

They could just as easily throw a random hero(not picked for sake of competitive) for it to work like it does in TF2. The other concern from TF2 though is the team size in overwatch is obviously much smaller.



I doubt it'll work exactly like a spy would. I can see it doing big damage a certain way, but small any other(massive headshot, low bodyshot/ massive from behind, low from in front), and instead of stealthing having the ability to disable electronics via grenade or something. Rein being very strong in the meta is still something that probably concerns them, so the ability to just turn it off for a few seconds?

Heh, an EMP grenade is a great idea. Especially when so many of the heroes are basically wearing Iron Man suits. Rein, Pharah, Mercy...

 

[Piers]

Heh, an EMP grenade is a great idea. Especially when so many of the heroes are basically wearing Iron Man suits. Rein, Pharah, Mercy...

Disabling their 'movement' skills could be neat with it. Tracer can't blink, Reinhardt can't charge, Pharrah can't rocket boost etc
Anything involving the shift key.

 

[TheYanger]

Something that literally only magic bullets specific heroes/skills sounds legitimately awful, as in poor design. There is a big difference between rock paper scissors as it exists now, and that.

 

[Phu]

Disabling their 'movement' skills could be neat with it. Tracer can't blink, Reinhardt can't charge, Pharrah can't rocket boost etc

With all these fancy cybernetic enhancements, maybe Junkrat wasn't so crazy for sticking with a peg leg and a beartrap.

Something that literally only magic bullets specific heroes/skills sounds legitimately awful, as in poor design. There is a big difference between rock paper scissors as it exists now, and that.

What about Ana being able to shut down heals? That's just as important to a healer's toolkit as rocket boosting for Pharah, etc. [and the grenade deals damage as well, something an EMP blast probably wouldn't]

 

[Piers]

With all these fancy cybernetic enhancements, maybe Junkrat wasn't so crazy for sticking with a peg leg and a beartrap.



What about Ana being able to shut down heals? That's just as important to a healer's toolkit as rocket boosting for Pharah, etc. [and the grenade deals damage as well, something an EMP blast probably wouldn't]

That's true. And generally speaking those encounters tend to end in a showdown anyway.
My mind was probably on characters that tend to use their shift key abilities to make an escape. (Reaper, D.Va and Solider 76 being ones that come to mind)
Edit: Whoops, sorry, it didn't show the other person you were quoting then.

 

[Chindogg]

Something that literally only magic bullets specific heroes/skills sounds legitimately awful, as in poor design. There is a big difference between rock paper scissors as it exists now, and that.

How do you think he's able to launch himself off his own mine without blowing his other leg up?

Nah that's sounds like Mei shit.

You really hate Mei don't you lol.

 

[Sou Da]

Disabling their 'movement' skills could be neat with it. Tracer can't blink, Reinhardt can't charge, Pharrah can't rocket boost etc
Anything involving the shift key.

Nah that's sounds like Mei shit.

 

[Artanisix]

QUIEN ES SOMBRA

 

[Piers]

Nah that's sounds like Mei shit.

Yeah, you're right — and McCree is already something of an anti-flanker with his flash bang.

 

[TheYanger]

With all these fancy cybernetic enhancements, maybe Junkrat wasn't so crazy for sticking with a peg leg and a beartrap.



What about Ana being able to shut down heals? That's just as important to a healer's toolkit as rocket boosting for Pharah, etc. [and the grenade deals damage as well, something an EMP blast probably wouldn't]

"Healing" is an intrinsic aspect of the game that all characters can engage with (health packs, supports, shields, etc). "Metal people can't use specific abilities" is just a giant fuck you. Hey Reinhardt is too good, let's put in a hero that has a button that says literally "Fuck reinhardt" but doesn't work on Roadhog because he's not mechanical....that's the worst idea you could have. Magic Bullets have killed TCGs for years and they serve nobody. If Reinhardt is too good, alter reinhardt, or if you want a hero to counter him, do it more organically than that. For example Symmetra's orbs ignore shields, make someone with a property like that on an attack if you really think shields are a problem, etc. I use Reinhardt as the example because the person that brought the idea up did, I don't think he's too good or anything.

Just the notion of a button that does something vs Pharah/Rein/etc for an arbitrary reason yet does nothing against an organic hero, is awful. Things can be more and less useful vs certain heroes, but binary counters are not fun.

 

[Keyser Soze]

If Sombra is supposed to be a spy (with hacking traits), I think it would be fitting for her to simply appear in the game one day out of nowhere. Just simply show up on the character list (presumably after a patch), with no explanation from Blizzard. Blizzard then tries to put up a Character Introduction video on Youtube but it turns out to be 2 minutes of static. They tweet about her debut but it shows up written in a weird cipher. Basically everything about the debut plays into the lore of the character.

I think something like that would be more interesting and exciting than a long drawn out reveal.

 

[Squire]

"Healing" is an intrinsic aspect of the game that all characters can engage with (health packs, supports, shields, etc). "Metal people can't use specific abilities" is just a giant fuck you. Hey Reinhardt is too good, let's put in a hero that has a button that says literally "Fuck reinhardt" but doesn't work on Roadhog because he's not mechanical....that's the worst idea you could have. Magic Bullets have killed TCGs for years and they serve nobody. If Reinhardt is too good, alter reinhardt, or if you want a hero to counter him, do it more organically than that. For example Symmetra's orbs ignore shields, make someone with a property like that on an attack if you really think shields are a problem, etc. I use Reinhardt as the example because the person that brought the idea up did, I don't think he's too good or anything.

Just the notion of a button that does something vs Pharah/Rein/etc for an arbitrary reason yet does nothing against an organic hero, is awful. Things can be more and less useful vs certain heroes, but binary counters are not fun.

Do you mean me? Wasn't really trying to single out Rein or anybody. I didn't even think the idea all the way through, just spitballing. I don't disagree with what you've posted on the subject.

 

[Horp]

How about hacking the enemies UI:s temporarily? xD
No hp meters, no indicators... How long will have to found out by playtesting. That could be her ulti.

 

[Plywood]

If Sombra is supposed to be a spy (with hacking traits), I think it would be fitting for her to simply appear in the game one day out of nowhere. Just simply show up on the character list (presumably after a patch), with no explanation from Blizzard. Blizzard then tries to put up a Character Introduction video on Youtube but it turns out to be 2 minutes of static. They tweet about her debut but it shows up written in a weird cipher. Basically everything about the debut plays into the lore of the character.

I think something like that would be more interesting and exciting than a long drawn out reveal.

5% B O I S

 

[Slamtastic]

No. What keeps the spy from being OP in TF2 is the existence of the pyro to spy-check. Overwatch doesn't have anyone like the pyro. Unless they simultaneously release another character capable of spy-checking, a spy will not work in Overwatch!

Also, literally every character in Overwatch can spy check because you have infinite ammo.

Just make an "allied" health bar (the ability to see those for non-supports was just added in PTR as an option) appear over your "teammate" when you shoot them that goes down as you do, and hopefully the playerbase is smart enough to figure out something as simple as that.

 

[Squire]

If Sombra is supposed to be a spy (with hacking traits), I think it would be fitting for her to simply appear in the game one day out of nowhere. Just simply show up on the character list (presumably after a patch), with no explanation from Blizzard. Blizzard then tries to put up a Character Introduction video on Youtube but it turns out to be 2 minutes of static. They tweet about her debut but it shows up written in a weird cipher. Basically everything about the debut plays into the lore of the character.

I think something like that would be more interesting and exciting than a long drawn out reveal.

^What we should get

5% B O I S

^What we're getting