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[FairXchange]

Why would it be reactive when it was leaked first, clearly in development first, and launching a year earlier, OP?

Try harder, man.

Yeah not sure what he was getting at.

 

[daviyoung]

One. Quarter.

Got Q2 numbers?

 

[wapplew]

I'm not just talking about the console.

Pretty much every thing related to Xbox at this moment, from the system OS, to custom accessories, to thee Windows 10 integration, seems far more forward thinking than what Sony is doing.

I don't see the Xbox making anything near a resurgence this gen, but the groundwork is being done to hold on and entice the hardcore market in a way Sony is at best ambivalent about.

Putting it another way. Sony still seems like its in the business of selling boxes. Microsoft has moved to the business of gaining and retaining users.

Sony is not forward thinking? Support cross buy since last gen, at the frontline in VR business, at the frontline in cloud gaming with PS now, first home console mid gen upgrade. MS, who follow each and every step on Sony playbook is the one more forward thinking?

 

[n0razi]

4K streaming just isn't an option for so many people though. It's funny that so many people went with PS4 originally due to its more traditional approach with a focus on physical media and now Sony are doing this.

It's a weak excuse for them being tightfisted. They should've put a 500gb HDD inside instead and gone with a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Well thats kind of the reason the OG and Slim are available. The Pro is available for people who want 4K streaming.

 

[kobu]

why are people so easily doubting MS's ability to bounce back a bit?

Mostly because the Playstation brand is just too strong at this point imo. The ps3 a console people consider to be one of the biggest screw ups in gaming still sold 85+ million units.

 

[timlot]

Do you hand on heart believe that a more powerful console will turn the tide for Microsoft and create some sort of comeback?

I'd love them to, I want 3 consoles that do well, with great games. The worst thing for us all would be one console on the market.

I don't believe it just power that will turn the tide. Microsoft needs just produce premium products. The Elite controller and even the XB1 S (to a lesser degree) shows that when you build something with premium hardware and design success will follow. PS4 was an example of that as well. Don't get side tracked by gimmicks ie: KInect, TV. Premium hardware and design.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Mostly because the Playstation brand is just too strong at this point imo. The ps3 a console people consider to be one of the biggest screw ups in gaming still sold 85+ million units.

Pretty much this. I hope the Scorpio does well (assuming price is alright), but it's still over a year away. With the current lead, I don't see a Cinderella story happening here, definitely not worldwide.

I don't believe it just power that will turn the tide. Microsoft needs just produce premium products. The Elite controller and even the XB1 S (to a lesser degree) shows that when you build something with premium hardware and design success will follow. PS4 was an example of that as well. Don't get side tracked by gimmicks ie: KInect, TV. Premium hardware and design.

Whoa! The Kinect is the main reason I still own a one. Love that Disney Fantasia.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Well yeah. The pro is coming out a whole year ahead of the scorpio so obviously it's not reactive to that. I think it's the other way around.

 

[potatohead]

I seriously doubt that. People bugging out about UHD on gaf or Reddit doesn't account for much. I didn't like the presentation initially, but from everything I've read from those who tried it, it's a worthwhile upgrade and at a fair price. I'd suggest we wait to see how things play out before we say anything blew up in their face. Many people who dogged it talked about getting the slim instead. Sony is gonna make money either way.

I was joking fam.

PS4 Plus is them trying to extend their lead. It's a new strat. I think it will pay off for them personally.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Got Q2 numbers?

Q2 doesn't finish till the end of this month. How is this a question?

 

[daviyoung]

Q2 only finished 2 weeks ago. How is this a question?

it was rhetorical

 

[RichiRamjag]

I was joking fam.

PS4 Plus is them trying to extend their lead. It's a new strat. I think it will pay off for them personally.

My bad. Can never tell anymore lol.

 

[marrec]

Btw the article is insteresting because House is giving the reason why they're not including UHD BR. They don't think there's demand for it.

That's been the assumption from the beginning. UHD BR is in it's infancy right now with only 3 widely available playback devices and a few dozen discs.

Of course there's no demand for it. What'll be more interesting is if/when Sony actually releases a 4k Player, seeing as they don't have one on the market yet. It looks like they're going all in on "4K Upscaling" instead of true 4K.

While I understand the business behind the decision to not include a UHD BR player, the fact remains that it would help differentiate it from other living room devices immediately.

Right now, when you google "4k blu ray player" the first result (besides Amazon links) is the Xbox One S.

 

[BeforeU]

Of course its not. But I wish it was. Because then they would have cancelled this product.and waited for next year

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

it was rhetorical

It's stupid. You cannot judge the entire health of a company on one quarters performance.

 

[PandaShake]

I wonder if these two companies will start leap frogging each other now. If PS5 comes out two years after Scorpio making it 3 years since PS4pro which is 3 years since OG PS4, Scorpio 2 or Scorpio Pro will most likely come after PS5. This means every other year we'll get to experience the hype of a new console from someone by taking advantage of current GPU advancements instead of two companies releasing something similar within a month apart.

 

[Liamario]

PS5 next year will be reactive.

2018 for that I suspect.

 

[Inceptional]

I think this is a very interesting insight into their thinking.

That's all they had to say yesterday and everyone would be pumped, instead they mucked it up with all their HDR/4K talk.

 

[Nipo]

Well thats kind of the reason the OG and Slim are available. The Pro is available for people who want 4K streaming.

Is there a 4k HDR tv that doesn't have native streaming built in? Seems like a superfluous feature and a waste of electricity at 200+ watts

 

[gofreak]

I don't believe it just power that will turn the tide. Microsoft needs just produce premium products. The Elite controller and even the XB1 S (to a lesser degree) shows that when you build something with premium hardware and design success will follow. PS4 was an example of that as well. Don't get side tracked by gimmicks ie: KInect, TV. Premium hardware and design.

In light of that I'd say it's rather complacent and arrogant of MS to leave their market languishing with a 1Tflop box for 4 years, wouldn't you? And to expect the market to wait yet another year beyond the competition for an improvement? Hmm.

Snark aside, to be honest, it is usually the complacent incumbent who is slower to make changes. I don't see that in Sony at all. They've been pressing ahead with various potential disruptions in their own business at a fairly quick pace independent of competitive pressures (VR, the new mid-gen bump, cloud gaming). That's not the sign of complacency.

 

[Armadilo]

I actually believe that we heard about the neo before Scorpio,

 

[platocplx]

That's been the assumption from the beginning. UHD BR is in it's infancy right now with only 3 widely available playback devices and a few dozen discs.

Of course there's no demand for it. What'll be more interesting is if/when Sony actually releases a 4k Player, seeing as they don't have one on the market yet. It looks like they're going all in on "4K Upscaling" instead of true 4K.

While I understand the business behind the decision to not include a UHD BR player, the fact remains that it would help differentiate it from other living room devices immediately.

Right now, when you google "4k blu ray player" the first result (besides Amazon links) is the Xbox One S.

They dont want to cannibalize sales of their standalone players which is what happened when a standalone player when ps3 dropped was double the price of it. Here prices are a 50 dollar diff.

Yes it sucks for tge people that care about 4k discs but definitely see a larger ramp up of 4k streaming movie options which for most people they wont even care about the best just good enough.

 

[Thewonandonly]

Well, to be fair, they are already "winning it", by a large margin. I think they know there's nothing Microsoft can do to overtake the market, at least not during this generation.

That's what people said about Sony last gen but they ended up closer together. Don't count out Microsoft they got the budget and can flip stuff around preety easily.

Also I was a pretty damn easy sell for the neo but I guess I'm out and will get the Xbox slim instead. Cause no way in hell my 7mp/s connection can stream 4K

 

[marrec]

They dont want to cannibalize sales of their standalone players which is what happened when a standalone player when ps3 dropped was double the price of it. Here prices are a 50 dollar diff.

Yes it sucks for tge people that care about 4k discs but definitely see a larger ramp up of 4k streaming movie options which for most people they wont even care about the best just good enough.

They don't have any standalone UHD BR players on the market right now.

 

[benny_a]

Snark aside, to be honest, it is usually the complacent incumbent who is slower to make changes. I don't see that in Sony at all. They've been pressing ahead with various potential disruptions in their own business at a fairly quick pace independent of competitive pressures (VR, the new mid-gen bump, cloud gaming). That's not the sign of complacency.

Reading your reasonable, reasoned and polite posts the last few days has been a pleasure.

 

[potatohead]

2018 for that I suspect.

I call 2019 for PS5.

PS4 -- 3 years -- PS4.5 -- 3 years -- PS5

Then they can just keep going 3 years at a time.

Alternate between one refresh and one totally new console. Pretty much like the 6 month refreshes on super phones with S and Plus and S Plus, but every 3 years instead.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

Isn't Sony being incredibly tactical with this move? You introduce a more powerful system for those who want to game in higher fidelity while remaining in your ecosystem. A year or more later, your closest competitor launches their latest and most powerful iteration (Scorpio). Yet, just a year and a half later (most likely), you start talking up the PS5 which will undoubtedly be more powerful than Scorpio, and you release it two to two-and-a-half years after PS4 Pro.

You essentially call the shots on when to make a "generational" leap -- though it actually seems that "generation" lines will be blurred from now on, interestingly enough.

Next-gen truly does start when Sony says it does.

 

[Effigenius]

I wish the pro was reactive. It would be nice if it had the power (and uhdbd drive) that Scorpio has.

 

[Thewonandonly]

I'll be curious to see if/when UHD Blu-ray fails, whether Sony's decision for not supporting it in the PS4 Pro will be considered them dodging a bullet or them being the bullet...

But why do people think it will fail?

If it's a obviouse step up from blu Ray like how 4K is the obviouse step up from HD. Then it will succeed eventually the question is just when. Also everyone saying streaming is the way to go are high as hell. Almost everyone I know in Utah has shitty connection and it's the same in Iowa when I visit in the summer. We just don't have fast enough connections for 4K. We are getting their but we still have 5-10 years until the Internet interface is fixed.

 

[ramparter]

Panic from what? What did they have to be panicked about?

They didnt know what to do with all that money they earned from PS4.

 

[rambis]

Well isn't it well know that Scorpio was mostly MS reacting to Sony and not vice versa?

 

[icespide]

arrogant sony is

 

[Confused Cheeseburger]

I think there is some Olympic-level high jump stretching going on with OP's sentiment. It's already been said somewhat, but Sony being complacent would find them sitting on their hands. No PS VR, No PS Now on PC, No Pro, just coasting on that sweet PS4 windfall. Granted, between the flatness of the presentation, recent PSN outages and increased Plus price, Sony is going through a bit of a rough patch. That said, missteps and complacency are different things all together. PS4P's price and release date might well be worth their weight in gold. Scorpio launching holiday next year may not have the massive splash MS is expecting in the face of a towering PS4 install base. At 399 right now, with a 299 slim and countless second hand PS4 vanillas rolling from next week on, The sheer amount of PS4s in all SKUs may just negate the significance of Scorpio's increased power and the tides may be too large to turn.

 

[Verendus]

No I'm saying Sony is being complacent. By implying they don't have to be reactive to whats going on with other player in the market just reminds me of the arrogance shown in the past. What they announced yesterday wasn't impressive to me and I know they could have done better. PS4 was a prime example of a more hungry Sony. They went for the better GPU. They went for the GDDR5 ram. Folks can excuse it all they want, but I expected better.

There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.

 

[Got the Shakes]

I'm not just talking about the console.

Pretty much every thing related to Xbox at this moment, from the system OS, to custom accessories, to thee Windows 10 integration, seems far more forward thinking than what Sony is doing.

I don't see the Xbox making anything near a resurgence this gen, but the groundwork is being done to hold on and entice the hardcore market in a way Sony is at best ambivalent about.

Putting it another way. Sony still seems like its in the business of selling boxes. Microsoft has moved to the business of gaining and retaining users.

I've always been a multiconsole guy from back in the NES and Master System days. I never have a horse in these fights. What MS has done is basically solidify that I don't feel the need to buy a Scorpio (pending some sort of megaton feature set) because I can play all of their exclusives on my gaming PC at just as good or higher quality than Scorpio will allow. I will buy a PS4 Pro because I can play PS4 exclusives and 3rd party games with increased visuals starting in November and PS4 is where most of my friends play. I like the direction MS is taking the Xbox brand because I may not need to buy one of their consoles for the foreseeable future while still being able to enjoy their exclusive games. I wonder how much of their potential Scorpio audience will go the PC route like me since they've started making sure games were available day and date on W10.

 

[quesalupa]

Edit: Wrong thread.

 

[vpance]

OP would be more impressed by Pro if it were more powerful (but more expensive), and I would be too, but if Sony can demonstrate a tangible, worthwhile improvement at $399 then that's commendable, and smart too, if it's able to sell to a wider audience.

 

[RichiRamjag]

In light of that I'd say it's rather complacent and arrogant of MS to leave their market languishing with a 1Tflop box for 4 years, wouldn't you? And to expect the market to wait yet another year beyond the competition for an improvement? Hmm.

Snark aside, to be honest, it is usually the complacent incumbent who is slower to make changes. I don't see that in Sony at all. They've been pressing ahead with various potential disruptions in their own business at a fairly quick pace independent of competitive pressures (VR, the new mid-gen bump, cloud gaming). That's not the sign of complacency.

Well said actually.

 

[thekiddfran]

How can the market leaders be reactive? It doesn't make sense.

Microsoft are reactive hence the reveal of scorpio.

It seems like they will always be on the back foot now.

PS4 Pro releases this year, Scorpio late 2017, PS5 announced 2018/2019 which is more powerful thank Scorpio.

Also, Sony killed it with the price for PS4 Pro. Scorpio is be 449 at least.

People saying Sony is panicking must be taking the piss right? they are 20 million ahead, releasing an exclusive VR headset and is launching a more powerful PS4 this year.

How is that panicking? Microsoft on the other hand will be rushing the scorpio out to desperately compete with the PS4/PS4 pro

oh and remember this, by the time scorpio releases the PS4 pro will be at least 349 or if Sony want to destroy all around they will push it to 299

 

[eerik9000]

the whole PS4 Pro has panic reaction written all over it

It's the opposite of panic. It's exactly what was leaked a long time ago, even before there were any rumours about Scorpio.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Seems like they think they can win it out lke this. May end a costly move in some ways

12+ months on the market before Scorpio launches makes for them already having the win, worldwide of course.

Japan, Germany, China and Many European Countries with virtually no interest in XB1 S will see this stronger PS4 and instantly buy it because no competition means easy sales.

Add Cheap PS4 Slim and Next Year's Black Friday. Scorpio won't catch up so easily.

 

[orochi91]

There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.

In light of that I'd say it's rather complacent and arrogant of MS to leave their market languishing with a 1Tflop box for 4 years, wouldn't you? And to expect the market to wait yet another year beyond the competition for an improvement? Hmm.

Snark aside, to be honest, it is usually the complacent incumbent who is slower to make changes. I don't see that in Sony at all. They've been pressing ahead with various potential disruptions in their own business at a fairly quick pace independent of competitive pressures (VR, the new mid-gen bump, cloud gaming). That's not the sign of complacency.

Great posts.

 

[Sweep14]

Yup. MS got rightfully called out when they tried this. I don't see why Sony gets a free pass from some just cause they're dressing it up as a "focused on games" narrative.

Revisionism act II : MS got smashed because of always online DRM and denying used games, not because of movies online streaming.

 

[killatopak]

OP please.

Pro came way earlier.

 

[cheesekao]

That's what people said about Sony last gen but they ended up closer together. Don't count out Microsoft they got the budget and can flip stuff around preety easily.

What exactly can MS do? Xbones have constantly been on sale for god knows how long now and only just recently did they beat the PS4 by a mere 10k units in the US only. It'll outsell the PS4 again in August but that's to be expected with the S but with the Slim and Pro coming out soon after, it's gonna be back to business as usual. Given their recent direction, I find it very unlikely they're gonna pull a Holiday 2014 for the long run and on a worldwide scale.

If you're talking about games then what exactly does MS have that is comparable to Sony's output during the PS3 years? Now that their games are going to PC as well, their potential buyers for the console has decreased as well. Can MS pull off a "Free Games with PS+" tier announcement?

You can choose to believe it's quite possible and that's your prerogative but eh.

 

[InsaneTiger]

That 4K bluray lack of will be the opening for MS and biggest mistake for Sony this generation.
/s

Do people really think the lack of a UHD drive will cause a 20 million swing in console sales? Andrew is not wrong, streaming is way more popular than watching TV shows or movies via physical media.

The Pro is not reactive in anyway whatsoever. It was planned months a long time ago with devs kits already out in the wild. By the time MS announced their thing it was too late to change.

2018 the PlayStation 4K Bro Edition

 

[Raiden1018]

Are you implying Sony reacted to Scorpio's rumors and announcement with Pro, OP?

Yes he is. He posted this in a ps4pro thread in verbatim. Delusional

 

[herod]

Speaking to the Guardian after the company’s PlayStation Meeting event in New York, House said it would not be possible to add support for UHD discs in a later firmware update, but argued that such support was unnecessary.

They're just trolling jeff_rigby at this point.

 

[Raiden1018]

Why would it be reactive when it was leaked first, clearly in development first, and launching a year earlier, OP?

Try harder, man.

.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm not just talking about the console.

Pretty much every thing related to Xbox at this moment, from the system OS, to custom accessories, to thee Windows 10 integration, seems far more forward thinking than what Sony is doing.

I don't see the Xbox making anything near a resurgence this gen, but the groundwork is being done to hold on and entice the hardcore market in a way Sony is at best ambivalent about.

Putting it another way. Sony still seems like its in the business of selling boxes. Microsoft has moved to the business of gaining and retaining users.

MS are leveraging what they have in their networking field. Sony does not have that kind of reach, because the companies are far too different resource wise and history wise, this is why Sony are still adamant about generations. Sticking to boxes is their future, and they don't want to mess that up by taking out some of their advantage. Becoming just a service holder without a hardware platform would essentially relegate them to being a cog in MS's wheel.

Sony can't just make an online store on PC and have it work for them because they own the entire platform.

Basically, Sony is doubling down on what they are known for(HW), MS are doubling down on what they are known for (software) but that is not going to tilt the console scales any more or less.

It might actually be the case, but they are not doing a great job at showing it. Even their explanation of why they are doing the neo and how it's not the end of generations for them doesn't make sense thus far.

It does. This is a more powerful PS4. They still consider PS5 a thing, and will ride out the journey until that PS5 with this half gen refresh. It seems simple to me.