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[Omnistalgic]

I dont. As a PS4 owner i would be pissed if the new model was a beast that made the actual PS4 look like 1 gen behind. And im glad they are targeting the Pro model to the higher resolution TVs, and letting the devs decide on the extra visual bumps for the 1080p games.

In my opinion was the best aproach to release a mid generation console, it gives some incentive to some ppl to upgrade, while not upsetting much the current user base of PS4 owners.

Thank god someone else said it...am I living in the twilight zone? Months before these things were rumored everyone was pissed at a revision making current users feel inferior and how bad ports are gonna show up and PS4poor jokes. We are getting none of that, completely optional, targeting for 4K owners, and at a very reasonable price so even if you want to jump in late you can.

Now Pro is not enough of a jump?! Gamers don't know what they want...

 

[dano1]

It's not , physical media was not dying then .
Blu ray has not gotten any where near the sales of DVD .
And i expect UHD going to sell even less than Blu ray .

Yes. Yes. And Yes.

 

[otakukidd]

I'm not taking about forward compatibility. "Forward compatibility is a design characteristic that allows a system to gracefully accept input intended for a later version of itself."

FC means that PS4/Pro will play PS5 games in some reduced mode. I'm talking Sony also abandoning generations like MS so PS4 era games play on any PS model to come in the future. Like PC and like what MS is talking. The infinite backward compatibility.

Zero reason to not have backwards compatibility next gen and beyond. The only reason the ps4 did was they changed to x86 and that probably won't change that again from now on. That's the reason a backlash didn't happen this gen. Now next gen if they did the same a giant backlash would happen and it would make it easier for people to jump from PlayStation to Xbox at the start of next gen. I seriously don't see this happening.

 

[notaskwid]

I'd advise OP to stick to making threads about Xbox, if this one is any example.

 

[Lys Skygge]

Thank god someone else said it...am I living in the twilight zone? Months before these things were rumored everyone was pissed at a revision making current users feel inferior and how bad ports are gonna show up and PS4poor jokes. We are getting none of that, completely optional, targeting for 4K owners, and at a very reasonable price so even if you want to jump in late you can.

Now Pro is not enough of a jump?! Gamers don't know what they want...

This is exactly what I was thinking. I was actually quite relieved that the PS4pro is nothing more than a 4kish box. I no longer fell obligated to upgrade.

Spoiler

though I likely will later down the road.

 

[The ElectrifyingAldo]

True, but so far that has not translated into increased blu-ray sales:

http://fortune.com/2016/01/08/blu-ray-struggles-in-the-streaming-age/

We'll see what happens as 4k TVs become more commonplace. But you can't blame Sony for not betting on it.

Fantastic point.

If the mass market demand maximum resolution and clarity of image, along with super-duper uncompressed audio in their movie/TV viewing, why aren't sales of Blu-Rays in the stratosphere?

Obviously the mass market aren't that bothered by such qualities.

Meanwhile, on Gaf: SONY ARE NOSE-DIVING INTO OBLIVION!

 

[cakely]

I'd advise OP to stick to making threads about Xbox, if this one is any example.

It may be a while before we get to see that.

 

[statham]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I was actually quite relieved that the PS4pro is nothing more than a 4kish box. I no longer fell obligated to upgrade.

Spoiler

though I likely will later down the road.

see Tomb Raider, you can get all three, 4k, 1080/60 or 1080/30 will all bells and whistles. Thats how I hope 3rd party games go from here on out.

 

[thelastword]

Xbox went with big upgrade, Sony went with small upgrade. Let's see who plan wins. I'm putting my money on neither.

Xbox went with a big upgrade....1. because it's current console is much weaker....2. It's not on shelves yet and won't be any time soon, these specs won't look as impressive in over a year's time. We also have limited knowledge of MS's specs except that it will have a 6TF GPU and some guesstimations on RAM, you have no idea of it's CPU. I don't think such a leap in GPU power is going to upset the PS4.Pro too much when the Scorp[io launches, especially with how far away it is.....

For now it's a huge leap over the XB1, that's for sure, but not so much over the .Pro especially a year + away..

 

[Outrun]

4K streaming just isn't an option for so many people though. It's funny that so many people went with PS4 originally due to its more traditional approach with a focus on physical media and now Sony are doing this.

It's a weak excuse for them being tightfisted. They should've put a 500gb HDD inside instead and gone with a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Yeah, I just get torn up thinking about the submarine crews that have no access to the net.

Upon further reflection, I think in will be interesting to see how Sony's strategy pays off.

Perhaps it is time for the digital streaming future...

 

[III-V]

see Tomb Raider, you can get all three, 4k, 1080/60 or 1080/30 will all bells and whistles. Thats how I hope 3rd party games go from here on out.

Tomb Raider featured two modes for the DE: one capped at 30 and another where frame rate was north of 45.

This version of TR is doing the same thing, and then they added a 4K mode.

Don't get your hopes up for many games to offer 3 mode choices. It has been rare to see two modes in the past (Nioh does something similar) but most games do not.

 

[Omnistalgic]

4K streaming just isn't an option for so many people though. It's funny that so many people went with PS4 originally due to its more traditional approach with a focus on physical media and now Sony are doing this.

It's a weak excuse for them being tightfisted. They should've put a 500gb HDD inside instead and gone with a 4K Blu Ray drive.

Yea for those ppl Ps4 pro offers no type of physical playback. Not DVDs, blu-Ray, nothing. Sony said Netflix or kick rocks

 

[KingBroly]

Yea for those ppl Ps4 pro offers no type of physical playback. Not DVDs, blu-Ray, nothing. Sony said Netflix or kick rocks

and youtube...for some reason.

 

[Jagernaut]

Do you think that the next console after PS4 Pro will maintain compatibility with the PS4 library? MS is pretty firm that generations are over for them and games will carry forward indefinitely.

I'm concerned that Sony would ship a PS5 in the old model where games no longer play. I think this Pro is a misstep in some ways and I think making a definite generational cutoff may be the next one they do.

If Sony enforces generations and MS doesn't, the backlash will be immense.

I don't like the idea of mid gen enhanced consoles and will not buy the Pro. I'm hoping that there will be a PS5 released around 2019 or so that plays all PS4 games but is still a traditional generational leap. Meaning that PS5 games will not be held back by having to be playable on PS4 systems.

 

[GraceflAnger]

Yea for those ppl Ps4 pro offers no type of physical playback. Not DVDs, blu-Ray, nothing. Sony said Netflix or kick rocks

Wait...seriously? You don't get any disc playback?

 

[Carnby]

I agree with House. I can't remember the last time I purchased a movie on a blu ray disc. It's been at least 3 years.

 

[Lys Skygge]

I agree with House. I can't remember the last time I purchased a movie on a blu ray disc. It's been at least 3 years.

Yeah I stream 99% of the time. I only buy blurays if it's from the Criterion Collection, or a film directed by Paul Thomas Anderson.

 

[kyser73]

Wait...seriously? You don't get any disc playback?

I believe that was a sarcastic post.

 

[wapplew]

Do you think that the next console after PS4 Pro will maintain compatibility with the PS4 library? MS is pretty firm that generations are over for them and games will carry forward indefinitely.

I'm concerned that Sony would ship a PS5 in the old model where games no longer play. I think this Pro is a misstep in some ways and I think making a definite generational cutoff may be the next one they do.

If Sony enforces generations and MS doesn't, the backlash will be immense.

If Sony don't enforce generations, I'll make sure the backlash from me will be immense.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Do you think that the next console after PS4 Pro will maintain compatibility with the PS4 library? MS is pretty firm that generations are over for them and games will carry forward indefinitely.

I'm concerned that Sony would ship a PS5 in the old model where games no longer play. I think this Pro is a misstep in some ways and I think making a definite generational cutoff may be the next one they do.

If Sony enforces generations and MS doesn't, the backlash will be immense.

MS doesn't determine generational standards or lack thereof when they are behind.

What i think will happen is, around 2019 or 2020, Sony is going to make a definite generational cutoff and provide a big leap of experience tailored to the mature technologies of that time period. But my guess is, split the difference by focusing on as close to 100% compatibility with the old PS4 libraries and ecosystem as possible.

I think that's really the only reasonable thing to do. I don't support the more powerful hardware being shackled to the older via perpetual iterative units.

 

[DigtialT]

Wait...seriously? You don't get any disc playback?

The PS4"K" has the same blue ray drive as the original PS4, so it cannot play UHD (4K) disc.

 

[Primethius]

I think the specs and focus of the Pro pretty much ensure that there will be a generaltional leap plus cutoff. Plus, Verendus said as much in his truth bomb of a post.

 

[btrboyev]

I'm still not exactly sure what Sony's plan for the Pro was. They are the market leader and probably were going to stay that way throughout this gen and the PS4 was already ahead of Xbox in power. It's mid-90's Sega all over again. Nobody asked for the Pro. People who wanted closer to PC specs bought a PC.

Forward compatibility and all that and it still somewhat splits their market. Especially depending on how developers treat standard PS4's going forward.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This gen will get interesting because it will really test the belief some had that power was somehow the sole determinant of the PS4's success.

Think about it this way, however -- if Microsoft DIDN'T botch the messaging of Xbox One, and instead released the same hardware a year earlier than PS4, without Kinect, for a cheaper price ($399 or even lower), this gen wouldn't be as lopsided, IMO. US/UK markets would have favored XB1 like they did in the previous generation.

A PS4 releasing a year later and more expensive would have still sold better in the global market, but competition would have been more fierce. And in all honesty, I don't think most consumers are able to tell a difference in power between XB1 and PS4. Same will be true of PS4 Pro vs. Scorpio. In fact, the power gap is approximately the same (900p vs. 1080p will now stretch out to Scorpio being a 4K machine and PS4 Pro being slightly sub-4K but with hardware that's capable of bridging the gap). The power difference will be less noticeable than XB1 vs. PS4 given that there's diminishing returns the higher the resolution becomes.

In many ways this is what Sony is doing with PS4 Pro -- As a gamer, I wanted to see a slightly beefier machine at a more expensive cost, but Sony probably made the right BUSINESS decision. I was very surprised at the $399 cost and only $100 difference between the slim. This makes me think that the PS4 Pro will likely be a very attractive choice rather than something merely for a niche enthusiast crowd, and will probably represent a decent fraction of total PS4 sales (maybe 33%?) going forward. Many will probably opt for the Pro even without a 4K TV just because it's simply not terribly more expensive than the slim.

Scorpio, with more memory, larger GPU, potentially separate CPU will automatically be more expensive to produce. I feel Sony hit a very good price/performance target for their upgrade and seem to be laser focused on value like they were with the original PS4, while Microsoft may have gone overboard in order to appeal to a very niche market.

I guess we'll see what happens, but my bet is that PS4 Pro will be far more commercially successful.

I think the specs and focus of the Pro pretty much ensure that there will be a generaltional leap plus cutoff. Plus, Verendus said as much in his truth bomb of a post.

Of course there will be generational leaps going forward. I do think that Sony will keep compatibility between platforms going forward, but at some point they will decide to move their first parties exclusively over to the new platform and third parties will slowly follow.

It's the same thing that happened this gen, only the transition and dev costs will be smoother since I believe Sony will try and make the PS5 backwards compatible with PS4 and of a similar architecture.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm still not exactly sure what Sony's plan for the Pro was. They are the market leader and probably were going to stay that way throughout this gen and the PS4 was already ahead of Xbox in power. It's mid-90's Sega all over again. Nobody asked for the Pro. People who wanted closer to PC specs bought a PC.

Forward compatibility and all that and it still somewhat splits their market. Especially depending on how developers treat standard PS4's going forward.

THey wanted a mid gen refresh exactly as they said.Since they have been moving their whole strategy toward gaming, they went in with two different units for their half gen refresh instead of just the slim.

Of course it had the risk of alienating some people, but that's what you do when your ahead, take risks. Otherwise, if they didn't really care about trying different things, they would have just put out a Xbox one S Slim type model like normal and let MS do what they wanted in regards to Scorpio until 2019 or whenever they launch their actual next unit

 

[ScherzoPrime]

TBH, I wouldn't mind the lack of UHD support so much if PSN had a better model for non-video game digital content. Why can't I buy digital downloads of movies like I do with games? Why is it just streaming?

 

[GraceflAnger]

The PS4"K" has the same blue ray drive as the original PS4, so it cannot play UHD (4K) disc.

OK. Sad to say I didn't get the sarcasm in the post I replied too. It's been a long day.

 

[RibMan]

I'm still not exactly sure what Sony's plan for the Pro was. They are the market leader and probably were going to stay that way throughout this gen and the PS4 was already ahead of Xbox in power. It's mid-90's Sega all over again. Nobody asked for the Pro. People who wanted closer to PC specs bought a PC.

Forward compatibility and all that and it still somewhat splits their market. Especially depending on how developers treat standard PS4's going forward.

The plan for the Pro was (and is) to make as much money as possible through the PS4 hardware. Yes, Sony wants to sell you TV's and yes, the Pro will run PSVR much better, but the core reason is money. Being the market leader doesn't mean they stopped caring about profit, right?

The real question is why is the Slim $299.99 and not $249.99? Blind shot in the dark, but I'm guessing Sony wants to drive as many customers as possible to the Pro model, and keeping the difference to only $100 means people will go to the store, look at the two, and decide whether or not the improved fidelity is worth the $100. I think a lot of people dislike feeling like the thing they bought is the low-end version, and given our inherent sense of belonging/misguided desire to show off on social media/inability to ignore marketing tactics/untrue association of low-end consumption with personal finances, a lot of people are going to pick the Pro.

Graphics and graphics alone are a terrible selling point for a new console especially when you can't see the difference in graphics without a new display. I expect a lot of bundles this season, and I expect the messaging to change next year.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The plan for the Pro was (and is) to make as much money as possible through the PS4 hardware. Yes, Sony wants to sell you TV's and yes, the Pro will run PSVR much better, but the core reason is money. Being the market leader doesn't mean they stopped caring about profit, right?

The real question is why is the Slim $299.99 and not $249.99? Blind shot in the dark, but I'm guessing Sony wants to drive as many customers as possible to the Pro model, and keeping the difference to only $100 means people will go to the store, look at the two, and decide whether or not the improved fidelity is worth the $100. I think a lot of people dislike feeling like the thing they bought is the low-end version, and given our inherent sense of belonging/misguided desire to show off on social media/inability to ignore marketing tactics/untrue association of low-end consumption with personal finances, a lot of people are going to pick the Pro.

Graphics and graphics alone are a terrible selling point for a new console especially when you can't see the difference in graphics without a new display. I expect a lot of bundles this season, and I expect the messaging to change next year.

Is it possible that sony priced the slim so horribly is because they want to steer people towards the pro this holiday season, and then next year they'll lower it down to 249? Cause i swore up and down that it would be 249 and i still think it should be that price to actually differentiate it from Pro

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I would argue that Sony are playing the longer game, releasing a unit like this instead of a Scorpio like revision so early, so they can focus on a bigger PS4 to PS5 like upgrade later on.

MS seemed like they were most unprepared, announcing a unit a year in advance with specs they hope to take advantage of at that point, but only on paper at this point in order to take some sails out of the competition.

I think coming in early, cheaper and with this approach is a safer bet considering that globally, Sony does far better, so they can afford to essentially experiment with this kind of refresh along side their current unit.

MS is hedging their bets on the power game and will be pushing 6tflops from here till next year, even though it's only a 30% jump

That and by time the Scorpio hits it's stride Sony could have ps5 coming in as it would be 3 years from now minimum


Also Sony clearly making profit from both versions the same could probably not said for the XboneS

 

[reKon]

There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.

Very good post here. This should be referenced to often to make things clear to those who don't understand.

 

[Jabba]

I'm not just talking about the console.

Pretty much every thing related to Xbox at this moment, from the system OS, to custom accessories, to thee Windows 10 integration, seems far more forward thinking than what Sony is doing.

I don't see the Xbox making anything near a resurgence this gen, but the groundwork is being done to hold on and entice the hardcore market in a way Sony is at best ambivalent about.

Putting it another way. Sony still seems like its in the business of selling boxes. Microsoft has moved to the business of gaining and retaining users.

Sony has to sell its own boxes to retain customers. They also have to do it in a way that is similiar to platform unification that Microsoft is attempting. There can be no more software/hardware resets. It's too risky financially these days.

So releasing a more powerful ps4 for the hardcore audience that leaves mid gen is being ambivalent? Haven't read that far in the thread but if someone was making the argument, ps pro is reactionary to Microsofts platform unification, I might buy that but not Xbox Scorpio.

 

[Toki767]

PS5 looming on the horizon a few years after Scorpio won't be a problem per se for MS. There are several things that will factor if it does or not (announce their next gen console to be released a year after ps5, announce it early, price it competitively against ps5 and get games onboard).

I also don't know why people think Microsoft wouldn't be above releasing another box around or after the PS5.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

As a Nintendo fanboy, I look forward to Scorpio and Pro battling it out next year. It's nice to watch from the sidelines.

 

[RibMan]

Is it possible that sony priced the slim so horribly is because they want to steer people towards the pro this holiday season, and then next year they'll lower it down to 249? Cause i swore up and down that it would be 249 and i still think it should be that price to actually differentiate it from Pro

100% possible. You see this all the time in the food industry: the larger bag of chips will seem like a much better value because the smaller bag of chips isn't significantly cheaper. In reality, the maker can make that smaller bag of chips cost much much less.

 

[Ushay]

I'm curious how long a substantial amount of time is for the PS4 line now. Very interesting, especially for those thinking PS5 will drop just 2 years after Scorpio.

Personally I prefer longer engagement with these consoles.