PlayStation boss on PS4 Pro: our approach isn't reactive this time around

Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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Damn, Verendus dropping the knowledge bombs.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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Ditto, Post of the day.
 
gofreak said:
The announcement of Scorpio this year absolutely was.
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And the fact MS excs including Phil the fan-favourite, were flipping about whether there will be Scorpio exclusive games.

Imo PS4Pro is going to clean house like what PS2 did to Xbox-OG
 
I think Sony is reading the Market place really well actually.

I don't think there is much demand for 4K Bluray and furthermore I think it's clear that the marketplace is changing and it has been for a while now.

Most people are choosing to stream film and tv content, someone in this thread mentioned Bluray sales are far below DVD sales. Most people simply aren't buying this physical content in the way they were before.

This is anecdotal but personally I can count on 1 hand the number of movies I want to buy physically at the moment. Most people are choosing to stream content nowadays from a variety of sources

The demand for physical media is dropping significantly.

Sony is hedging their bets that 4k Bluray will not have much demand or marketplace presence and even if there is a resurgence they have positioned themselves well to implement it in the PS5. I think Sony is making the smartest move at the moment
 
wapplew said:
Sony is not forward thinking? Support cross buy since last gen, at the frontline in VR business, at the frontline in cloud gaming with PS now, first home console mid gen upgrade. MS, who follow each and every step on Sony playbook is the one more forward thinking?
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Cross buy with limited titles and with a handheld they own is completely different than what ms is doing.

Imo, the reason why everything about ps4 pro seems reactionary is because of the lack of a plan. What's the plan for neo?

In the Ms side we know it. They are moving to a platform that is device agnostic and thus are releasing new console that is compatible with this platform. We know where are they taking it.

Sony just seems to throw stuff at a wall and hope it sticks. Yeah they went first with psnow but what are their plans? It's based on ps3 data centers, how it will expand? Or 5 years from now they still plan to offer only ps3 games?

And about neo. What's the point of a middle gen refresh that does not automatically improves all games, and that, in their own words, will only be supported during the ps4 gen? They are not (at least that we know of) moving towards a platform where they can make ps5 games to be forward compatible with ps4 pro. Even their reasoning seems weird. They wanted a console for high end graphics that still played ps4 games, but they reckon they still can't deliver on that console. Nor 4k which was also a huge selling point. What reasons do you think Sony had for launching neo other than feeling the pressure of their biggest competitor no longer resetting it's install base at the start of a new gen?
 
Thewonandonly said:
But why do people think it will fail?

If it's a obviouse step up from blu Ray like how 4K is the obviouse step up from HD. Then it will succeed eventually the question is just when. Also everyone saying streaming is the way to go are high as hell. Almost everyone I know in Utah has shitty connection and it's the same in Iowa when I visit in the summer. We just don't have fast enough connections for 4K. We are getting their but we still have 5-10 years until the Internet interface is fixed.
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You arent going to have the connections for Scorpio gaming either. If people think Microsoft is going to be pressing 100gb blu-ray discs you are going to have a rude awakening.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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Now this is arrogant Sony.
I sure hope PS5 will not be Pro+. Please tell that to Sony.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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gofreak said:
In light of that I'd say it's rather complacent and arrogant of MS to leave their market languishing with a 1Tflop box for 4 years, wouldn't you? And to expect the market to wait yet another year beyond the competition for an improvement? Hmm.

Snark aside, to be honest, it is usually the complacent incumbent who is slower to make changes. I don't see that in Sony at all. They've been pressing ahead with various potential disruptions in their own business at a fairly quick pace independent of competitive pressures (VR, the new mid-gen bump, cloud gaming). That's not the sign of complacency.
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Top notch post here
 
wapplew said:
Now this is arrogant Sony.
I sure hope PS5 will not be Pro+. Please tell that to Sony.
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He says that the leap between Scorpio and PS5 will be significant because it represents a generational leap. My read of that suggests that that rules out an iterative model.
 
Playstation/Sony has a 4k streaming marketplace. They're gonna pimp that in lieu of physical media. Like Andy said, the only thing people do more on their PS4s than stream video is play games. UHD Blu-ray may catch on but they decided to bet on streaming this time. I understand some people being disappointed, but I vehemently disagree that this omission will move the needle with consumers. People have clearly demonstrated that they're content with streaming.

Sure, there are parts of the world where sufficient Internet is hard/impossible to come by... This product isn't for everyone and that's fine. If UHD discs catch on, a wider selection of UHD players will follow and prices will go down. Also, the Xbone S is a pretty damn good value if that particular feature is a deciding factor for you.

I see a lot of "but Sony, you make blu-rays!" Well, shit... Maybe they know something we don't about the medium's long term viability? Maybe it's kinda telling that the company that brought Blu-ray into the gaming console realm is abandoning its latest iteration. I dunno...
 
daviyoung said:
the whole PS4 Pro has panic reaction written all over it
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You can practically smell the fear...
 
LukasTaves said:
What reasons do you think Sony had for launching neo other than feeling the pressure of their biggest competitor no longer resetting it's install base at the start of a new gen?
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Market pressure for more modern hardware more frequently, to help persist the 6 year software cycle that we're used to? The fear - I presume - was that without a more modern companion option sooner than 5 or 6 years, the overall platform might stall in a context where consumers want more for their money than the same box for 6 years. That's the point of PS4 Pro - to give new owners newer technology for the same price, to cement the kind of volumes consoles usually do in their middle third, but that may have been by no means guaranteed this time around.

In other words, to help them sell 20m units this year.

Sony seems to keeping an open mind about the longer term picture of generational resets. A vision of fixed 6 yearly software cycles that aren't forward compatible, with hardware iterations within those cycles, seems perfectly reasonably to me (in all its difference from Microsoft's apparent vision, which also seems perfectly reasonably to me, in respect to their interests in the PC market).
 
J-Skee said:
If anything, the Xbox team may have been reactive to the PS4 Pro, not the other way around.
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Felt that way during E3. We'll never know for certain though.

Looking at the numbers for UHD blu-ray, I kind of understand why it wasn't included from an economic perspective. Nevertheless, it still looks really bad on paper when it's not part of the system and comparisons are drawn between it and the competition (i.e. Xbox One S).
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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I said god damn, this is so on point it's not even funny.
 
Scorpio isn't reactive, more like holy hell did they fuck up the Xbox One, lets start again, do it right, more power! It's basically a restart for Microsoft wrapped nicely with BC which was the plan for both Sony and Microsoft anyway.
 
Andrew House is right.
UHD blu ray won't have the same effect on the industry the way DVD and standard blu ray has. People are streaming their video content so, it really makes no sense.
The move to 4K will be a slow crawl. There is hardly even enough video content to make it worth it.

As for the OP's assertion, Scorpio will not start next gen early because there will be no Scorpio exclusives. This mid-gen refresh is an experiment that will likely fail unless both companies have their expectations in check. It's like they are testing the waters for the future of 4K content, while at the same time incentivizing it.

The ones more likely to invest in a 4K display for gaming and really care about power that much are the PC enthusiasts. Both Pro and Scorpio will not have true 4K outside of a handful of titles. You can count on upscaling and checkerboard rendering techniques instead.
 
I honestly have to agree. Outside of my hardcore Audio/Video phile friends (2 of them), I know absolutely nobody personally who gives a shit about 4K. It's not a household name yet.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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Well put.

I was afraid Sony launching it next year for $499. Neither happened and so it is perfectly placed to extend the Playstation domination.

As Cerny emphasised, 4Pro is a mid-gen refresh. It is not a PS5 or Xbox2. This is a winning formula and nobody should feel short-changed by its appearance. Better have than not imo.

When PS5 comes out in 2018/9, you have your full powered PS5 exclusive games. I figured there is a special place for 4Pro, that is of those cross-gen ports! Imagine Fifa19 on 4Pro instead of PS4, like in the past! This cross-gen will take at least a year or more, as such you have 4Pro with a useful life 3++ years! Isn't that sweeter we have a 4Pro instead of none ?
 
The PS4pro was a panic creation IMO that would help sell psvr.

If the VR space was half a year behind where it is now, I think Sony would have released a PS4Pro that had more power a year later with Scorpio and at a similar power level. Think occulus, vive and other vr competitor's made them release things sooner. As gaming/playstation is there bread and butter and that they had already invested a decent amount of coin and did not want to be left behind (reducing risk So that they may capitalize more on there investment)

Releasing a slim with the PS4pro gave me that impression as the $100 difference in pricing mean that something had an accelerated release (maybe it was the slim, idk) As I don't think they even needed to release a slim...

Also, don't forget that they prob knew when they had announced there vr that the ps4 og was hilariously underpowered for what the minimum frame rate had to be with there unit, while also factoring in some oompff with the graphical capabilities.
 
eerik9000 said:
It's the opposite of panic. It's exactly what was leaked a long time ago, even before there were any rumours about Scorpio.
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Maybe Neo was know more publicly, but AMD let it be know early this year they had 3 semi-custom design wins in a earnings call. One was guessed to be Neo. The others were unknown.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...n-wins-suggest-three-upcoming-console-reveals

AT E3 the other two were revealed to be Xbox One S new SoC and Scorpio SoC.
https://twitter.com/amd/status/742455340839493632

So just because Neo leaked first. Leaks are starting to become an issue over there. Doesn't mean development wasn't going on at Microsoft. Obviously there was because semi-customs designs can take years of collaboration between companies.
 
JustenP88 said:
UHD Blu-ray may catch on but they decided to bet on streaming this time.
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With dvd/blu-ray sales declining ~25% over the past 2 years in the US, while streaming revenue rose almost 20%, the reasoning is clear. And as you say, they are well positioned to offer a wealth of 4k streamed content. Not difficult to see the motivation for the lack of a UHD drive there.

jelly said:
Scorpio isn't reactive, more like holy hell did they fuck up the Xbox One, lets start again, do it right, more power! It's basically a restart for Microsoft wrapped nicely with BC which was the plan for both Sony and Microsoft anyway.
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Sure, that's why they came out with the unlikely mouthful that is "fully uncompressed highest quality pixels". Get real - they knew exactly how PS Pro was going to achieve its 4k display having got their hands on the docs, they expected a reveal at their presser and attempted to get in there first with a sketch of what a console might be like in 18 months time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
AP90 said:
The PS4pro was <snip>
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Yikes. Where to begin...
 
When Microsoft launches Scorpio next year, the cheapest it will be is $400.

By that time I see Sony dropping the price of the PS4 Pro to 300 and the standard PS4 to 250 (with a 200 BF bundle).

People are complaining that this thing isn't powerful enough, but strategically, I think Sony is in a good position having both its low end hardware and it's "high" end hardware in the middle. They want mass market.

Xbox One S < PS4 < PS4 Pro < Xbox Scorpio

If they want, Sony could always release something more powerful than the Scorpio for 2018. But I don't think the demand will be there.
 
The interesting thing for me is that it is clear from Sony's presentation yesterday that it and Microsoft are going in different directions from now on.

Sony seemed pretty clear that they were not abandoning the traditional console generational structure. There will be a Playstation 5, and it's games won't be playable on the PS4 family. I'm assuming that it is highly likely that the PS5 will play PS4 games though.

Microsoft however seem to have moved in a different direction. They seem to be continuing to make consoles, but not in the generational model. Games will be backwards and forward compatible, as will peripherals.

It's going to be interesting to see which of these approaches is more successful, and good to see some variety in the console business between the two.
 
MysteryM said:
There wasn't much support for dvds when the ps2 released with a dvd drive, there wasn't much support for bluray when the ps3 released with bluray drive.

Its a weak excuse.
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And there was no Netflix at that time, either. Times change, and so do peoples habits in consuming media. I would imagine both of those formats would of encountered much more trouble if the likes of Netflix were around.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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jelly said:
Scorpio isn't reactive, more like holy hell did they fuck up the Xbox One, lets start again, do it right, more power! It's basically a restart for Microsoft wrapped nicely with BC which was the plan for both Sony and Microsoft anyway.
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Yea, it's hard to say the Scorpio was reactive with any certainty as there were so many factors at play contributing to the idea of Scorpio.

It's clear that PS4 Pro was not reactionary to anything (how could it have been and to what?).

Both are similar in the way they seem to be perceived by a large contingent online but they seem to have to drastically different underlying goals to be called as reactionary to one another.

About the only thing that was reactionary was the Scorpio announcement at E3. MS obviously wanted to take the sails out of the Neo announcement they were likely expecting to be made there. And they obviously thoughts the benefits of announcing so early outweighed the negatives (and they proved correct).
 
Verendus said:
But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio.
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Truth bombs all around but goddamn at the bolded, Verendus.

It's really bizarre seeing all the 'MS flipped the script', 'Scorpio has PS4 by the balls' and even guys like Greg Miller saying how 'MS is laughing their heads off' - when Scorpio will be competing with a potential market of 60+ million PS4 owners by the time it drops. What publisher will be dumb enough to exclude PS4 just to take advantage of Scorpio's power?
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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God damn I love you Verendus
 
That is not a convincing excuse to not include an UHD Bluray Reader to PS4 Pro. A 4K machine without an UHD Bluray Reader? Every PlayStation had a new kind of media reader: PS1: CD, PS2: DVD , PS3: Bluray except the PS4. I thought they would rectify that with PS4 Pro but sadly not and such excuse is not convincing.

timlot said:
When asked if the arrival of PlayStation 4 Pro and Microsoft’s Project Scorpio heralded the end of the traditional five-to-seven year architecture lifecycle, House stated: “I think that since this is our first foray into this kind of mid-cycle innovation, it’s far too early to call that. He also refused to rule out further hardware instalments in the PlayStation 4 generation. “We think that for a really substantial period of time this is the PlayStation 4 lineup. We’re very comfortable with that.”
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What does that mean? More PS4 Pros in the future?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=216181669&postcount=5513
 
Rymuth said:
Truth bombs all around but goddamn at the bolded, Verendus.

It's really bizarre seeing all the 'MS flipped the script', 'Scorpio has PS4 by the balls' and even guys like Greg Miller saying how 'MS is laughing their heads off' - when Scorpio will be competing with a potential market of 60+ million PS4 owners by the time it drops. What publisher will be dumb enough to exclude PS4 just to take advantage of Scorpio's power?
Click to expand...

I think that Scorpio's success (or otherwise) hinges on Microsoft making it simple for devs to scale the performance of their games so that it is easy for the devs to access the extra oomph. If they can do this and 3rd party games look and perform better on Scorpio then it has a fighting chance of succeeding. If games look no different to on the PS4 Pro then it will not do well.
 
Doctor_Thomas said:
Genuine question.

How many UHD movies currently exist? Why is this such a big deal right now?
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well apparently that's exactly the point. House said it himself that they aren't focused on physical movies.
physical games sure.

so love it or hate it that's another feature sony decided isn't worth putting up money for. I mean everyone hated the 549 ps3 right? they're only giving you all what you wanted.


I happily bought a 649 (cdn) ps3.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. ...

[ Edited for quote brevity ]
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Great post. Certainly one of the best I've read here at GAF in the last 24 hours.

daviyoung said:
the whole PS4 Pro has panic reaction written all over it
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No, it really doesn't. Sony is shipping the PS4 Pro in two months. There's no possible timeline where that could happen if they were reacting to an Xbox console that will be shipping in fourteen months.
 
AP90 said:
The PS4pro was a panic creation IMO that would help sell psvr.

If the VR space was half a year behind where it is now, I think Sony would have released a PS4Pro that had more power a year later with Scorpio and at a similar power level. Think occulus, vive and other vr competitor's made them release things sooner. As gaming/playstation is there bread and butter and that they had already invested a decent amount of coin and did not want to be left behind (reducing risk So that they may capitalize more on there investment)

Releasing a slim with the PS4pro gave me that impression as the $100 difference in pricing mean that something had an accelerated release (maybe it was the slim, idk) As I don't think they even needed to release a slim...

Also, don't forget that they prob knew when they had announced there vr that the ps4 og was hilariously underpowered for what the minimum frame rate had to be with there unit, while also factoring in some oompff with the graphical capabilities.
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Nothing in here is even close to reality.
 
Gaf, you know I love you guys right? But let's be honest, even if you personally don't use digital media and prefer physical media, you are aware that you are in the minority right? You guys can be upset all you want and by all means do not buy the PS4 Pro, but they really are following the market trend here. Disk are on there way friends... I personally use digital media all around now but I will say it's strange that a premium device meant for the hardcore doesn't have a feature that many of the hardcore audience want.
 
Ha-ha.

Sony has issues but I don't thinking not having a UHD in the Pro is one of them.

Only a third of house holds will have 4k TVs in the US by 2019... And by then it will be time for a new console generation...

Also who knows what happens to physical media vs digital media between now and then.

Anyway... Anyone serious about having prestine image quality wouldn't rely on the PS4 player anyways.
 
AP90 said:
The PS4pro was a panic creation IMO that would help sell psvr.

If the VR space was half a year behind where it is now, I think Sony would have released a PS4Pro that had more power a year later with Scorpio and at a similar power level. Think occulus, vive and other vr competitor's made them release things sooner. As gaming/playstation is there bread and butter and that they had already invested a decent amount of coin and did not want to be left behind (reducing risk So that they may capitalize more on there investment)

Releasing a slim with the PS4pro gave me that impression as the $100 difference in pricing mean that something had an accelerated release (maybe it was the slim, idk) As I don't think they even needed to release a slim...

Also, don't forget that they prob knew when they had announced there vr that the ps4 og was hilariously underpowered for what the minimum frame rate had to be with there unit, while also factoring in some oompff with the graphical capabilities.
Click to expand...

Wow, this is just..... wow......
 
I'd argue that Sony's actually best as a company when they're reacting to things.

Historically they've been very good at iterating and improving ideas using high quality technology.
 
Due to the backlash, I do think they will at least consider adding a UHD drive version at some point next year for 450 to 500. I'm not going to support such a minor upgrade especially without a UHD drive.
 
Rymuth said:
Truth bombs all around but goddamn at the bolded, Verendus.

It's really bizarre seeing all the 'MS flipped the script', 'Scorpio has PS4 by the balls' and even guys like Greg Miller saying how 'MS is laughing their heads off' - when Scorpio will be competing with a potential market of 60+ million PS4 owners. What publisher will be dumb enough to exclude PS4 just to take advantage of Scorpio's power?
Click to expand...

What sold people on the Xbox og and 360 I thought were some of those key exclusives' , power and graphical fidelity for first party games and some third party ones. This gen for the first two years people have been biased towards the better performing console... So I still think power has some weight. I mean less weight for MS and more for Sony as they have always had brand recognition in the gaming space consistently.

Granted new ip (or re-emerging ones) first party games haven't done as well as this gen, so it will prob not be a very big determining factor anymore.

I think both PS and Microsoft/xbox will be fine. Sony will always have a solid userbase, MS is looking to retain is current base and expand more if they can. I also think Scorpio is going to be a way for MS to reinvent xbox that will go hand in hand with windows. It took MS like 2years to get there image turned around with the Xbox brand..
 
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