Polygon: "After a Half-Hour with The Last Guardian, I'm Concerned"

Mushroomer25 said:
So it's immune to criticism? If a game controls like shit, and gets in the way of its own objectives - it deserves to be roasted for that.
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Except it's not an objective fact that they "control like shit". Many people, myself included, enjoyed the control scheme in their past games.
 
prwxv3 said:
I would agree if this was not a game made purely for the fans of Ueda games.
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I think it's fine to establish that not every game is intended to be for mass consumption necessarily. However, it is also silly to try and lay down some framework that essentially reads as "if you're not predisposed to like this game then your opinion is invalid."
 
ICO was just a decent “game“, but it was the emotional journey that elevated it, to masterpiece.

Maybe TLG won't be a great game either, but I can say that I'm not worried for that, if.it manages to deliver what team ICO was famous for.
 
IF Polygon is "concerned" then all my worries are out the fucking window! Music to my ears, bring on TLG baby!
 
EatinOlives said:
Except it's not an objective fact that they "control like shit". Many people, myself included, enjoyed the control scheme in their past games.
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Ah! I think that's a distinction maybe you're not doing, though. Taste versus critical judgement. You can like something and know that it's objectively bad, or that it could be better.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I think it's fine to establish that not every game is intended to be for mass consumption necessarily. However, it is also silly to try and lay down some framework that essentially reads as "if you're not predisposed to like this game then your opinion is invalid."
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I don't think it's invalid I just don't agree with it. I would agree 100 percent if TLG was supposed to bring new people that have never played Ueda games before but that is not happening.
 
OldRoutes said:
Ah! I think that's a distinction maybe you're not doing, though. Taste versus critical judgement. You can like something and know that it's objectively bad, or that it could be better.
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Except the onus would be on you to prove that the control scheme is objectively bad. That's far from a universal truth.
 
Maybe it won't be the best game ever but it sure will have a lot of heart in it. I can see it be really something special and thlse kind of things aren't always for everyone.
 
It will be an Ueda game through and through. The last one of those was on the PS2 and TLG doesn't look that different. The insane dev time and it being in the public perception for years has made more people interested in it then there would have been if it had come out on the PS3. I'm expecting rough reviews.
 
daman824 said:
Exactly, but there are quite a few posts itt going "well polygon sucks so who cares". More people who actually played the game are having issues than just polygon.
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Well in this case it does not matter (to fans anyway) because fans are used to and expect these things with Ueda games. To your mainstream gamer sure they are a problem. They should be discussed though.
 
OldRoutes said:
Other games in that genre like Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Arkham and even Assassin's Creed are probably what would most likely be expected from a control point of view. Same thing about the camera.
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Expecting an Ico game controlling like that is idiotic to say the least, either that or means you have never played the series before.
And if the latter is the case and you don't like that kind of controls/ai/whatever you shouldn't be "concerned" on inherent quality of the game because that simply means that the game is not for you*


*And i don't mean it in a dumb, elitist way as in "you are not good enough for this game" but as a "some people like Gran Turismo/Forza because they are realistic and some like Outrun/Mario Kart because they are arcade-y" same genre but different kinds.
 
Asriel said:
If this has already been acknowledged why do you take issue with criticism of the controls? Naturally, people will not like awkward controls and may not even get used to them. And that's perfectly understandable if that's their opinion.
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Because different controls don't make a game bad. The author saying he's "concerned" shows a lack of knowledge of the prior games, and doesn't get the fundamental discussion about how a game's artistry can transcend something as stupid as, "clunky controls."
 
Why is this topic so big lol
It plays just like ICO and shadow. The person who wrote that either didn't play those or thinks it's a problem. We all know what's up
 
shamanick said:
After the Doom video, I really need to see the footage of their gameplay if they're "concerned".
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It's kinda funny how much shit that DOOM video got when the actual review of DOOM was positive and written by someone who played the older games.
 
EatinOlives said:
Except the onus would be on you to prove that the control scheme is objectively bad.
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We'll see when reviews come out ; from the previews, it seems to most people agreed the controls didn't feel intuitive or particularly helpful in most situations. The camera is also apparently a bit hard to control or predict.

You don't get to say that something is subjective by polling people on how they feel about it. There are guidelines to follow, conventions to adhere to and design pattern to adopt when you build a game. The same way it'd be awkward to map 'shoot' to the B button of a controller when most FPS are using the triggers for that nowadays.

Now, could you get used to it? Yes. Does that make the control better? No.
 
The fuck is everyone just looking at Polygon's impressions as the holy grail. You guys do realize there is another thread with more impressions that isn't just polygon's right?

I swear every time there's a little negative thing about a game some of y'all just jump in hordes. Seriously don't take in count with just one impression.
 
daman824 said:
They expect bad camera control?
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ICO and SOTC did not have good cameras at all.

Now that is not a excuse to not dock points in a review of course. But fans know what they are getting into and they don't need anyone telling them they should be more cautious about it
 
Having just opened Metacritic, and looked at all the reviews for 'ICO' and SOTC, it kind of struck me how they all complained about 'bad' controls, simplistic puzzles and gameplay, being repetitive and all (and one hilariously , if sotc only had more zelda stuff in it-review )

and yet most of the reviewers said its amongst their best games ever (for that time)

For me personally, i hope it will be too. everything ive seen so far makes me, "i just want to play this"

But my biggest fear is that it will be totally trashed in today's media. Media that will not understand you are playing with a beast that doesnt listen all the time (atleast one review will mention its downright broken) , it will be fuel for xbots vs playboys in the flamewars, like NMS (its the worst game ever and you are a tool for liking it - and i like the game very much ;| ) ...

...and prolly hailed as one of the best games in 5 years from now, for its experience.
 
I like Phil, but when he gave Last of Us a 7/10 because the setting and story made him uncomfortable I knew our tastes in games were way different and I take his opionions with a grain of salt from here on out.
 
LeleSocho said:
Expecting an Ico game controlling like that is idiotic to say the least, either that or means you have never played the series before.
And if the latter is the case and you don't like that kind of controls/ai/whatever you shouldn't be "concerned" on inherent quality of the game because that simply means that the game is not for you*

*And i don't mean it in a dumb, elitist way as in "you are not good enough for this game" but as a "some people like Gran Turismo/Forza because they are realistic and some like Outrun/Mario Kart because they are arcade-y" same genre but different kinds.
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because that simply means that the game is not for you*
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If what Team ICO are doing is to essentially creating a controller setup to cater to their own audience, it doesn't make the design better. it makes it worst. That's objectively true, if you agree that a game is designed to be enjoyed by everyone.

If what they made is justified in the game design, then it's good design. For example, if having a more precise control is something that'll enhance the gameplay, it's perfectly reasonable. Skate is one example of games that decided to try something new to enhance the gameplay. Everyone agreed that it felt odd, but it only made the game more precise, better and fun. Dark Souls, too.

But you have to understand that it might not please everyone, and that if it doesn't, it makes it objectively bad, as its intended design doesn't work.
 
OldRoutes said:
We'll see when reviews come out ; from the previews, it seems to most people agreed the controls didn't feel intuitive or particularly helpful in most situations. The camera is also apparently a bit hard to control or predict.

You don't get to say that something is subjective by polling people on how they feel about it. There are guidelines to follow, conventions to adhere to and design pattern to adopt when you build a game. The same way it'd be awkward to map 'shoot' to the B button of a controller when most FPS are using the triggers for that nowadays.

Now, could you get used to it? Yes. Does that make the control better? No.
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Again, you'll have to prove how past Ueda games have had objectively bad controls. Yes there's obvious things we can look at like button mapping, but there's a lot of other things like turn radius, acceleration/deceleration, and physicality of character movement (see Rockstar games using the Euphoria based control scheme) where personal preference and taste becomes a lot more important.

And I don't even know what you mean by "can't poll how people feel". What do you think reviews are? They're people posting their feelings.
 
This game is gonna get shit on so much but I don't care, it looks excellent and an amazing change of pace from all the other generic games out there.
 
OldRoutes said:
If what Team ICO are doing is to essentially creating a controller setup to cater to their own audience, it doesn't make the design better. it makes it worst. That's objectively true, if you agree that a game is designed to be enjoyed by everyone.

If what they made is justified in the game design, then it's good design. For example, if having a more precise control is something that'll enhance the gameplay, it's perfectly reasonable. Skate is one example of games that decided to try something new to enhance the gameplay. Everyone agreed that it felt odd, but it only made the game more precise, better and fun. Dark Souls, too.

But you have to understand that it might not please everyone, and that if it doesn't, it makes it objectively bad, as the its intended design doesn't work.
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That's not what "objectively bad" means. Stop making up definitions just to suit your narrative.
 
The Team Ico games have a very distinct feel, and if this one captures that feeling, then I know I will enjoy it. I doubt this game will sell 1M copies - hopefully Sony won't lose money on it, what with the loooong development time. Enjoy your last Team Ico game.

The game looks good - I hope it's at least a 10 hour game.
 
2+2=5 said:
2)guys we are in 2016, i know that you love ico and the ps2 but gaming evolved a lot since them, feeling like a ps2 game isn't a compliment at all.
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But ico and SOTC weren't exactly standard-bearers for the way PS2 games controlled, they were rather their own thing which had nothing particular to do with "feeling like a ps2 game". The vast majority of PS2 games controlled very differently from these games. Trying to somehow tie these games to some overarching design trend/limitation of the PS2 era just belies how little that person actually knows/remembers about that era.
 
EatinOlives said:
Except the onus would be on you to prove that the control scheme is objectively bad. That's far from a universal truth.
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How would one objectively prove that controls are bad?

That response from the controller inputs have lots of lag time?
That contextual button inputs seem to respond in unwanted ways?
Camera controls that respond unintuitively?
Causal inputs (like jumping) that respond in non-causal outputs?
 
OldRoutes said:
If what Team ICO are doing is to essentially creating a controller setup to cater to their own audience, it doesn't make the design better. it makes it worst. That's objectively true, if you agree that a game is designed to be enjoyed by everyone.

If what they made is justified in the game design, then it's good design. For example, if having a more precise control is something that'll enhance the gameplay, it's perfectly reasonable. Skate is one example of games that decided to try something new to enhance the gameplay. Everyone agreed that it felt odd, but it only made the game more precise, better and fun. Dark Souls, too.

But you have to understand that it might not please everyone, and that if it doesn't, it makes it objectively bad, as its intended design doesn't work.
Click to expand...

EatinOlives said:
That's not what "objectively bad" means. Stop making up definitions just to suit your narrative.
Click to expand...


Is "objectively" the new "literally"?
 
I'm not concerned. The games media usually has a different idea then I do for what passes for functional controls. See psx Tomb Raider vs modern day Tomb Raider. But we'll see.
 
Toxi said:
It's kinda funny how much shit that DOOM video got when the actual review of DOOM was positive and written by someone who played the older games.
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Did you watch that video? It was beyond embarrassing. It's difficult to take anything they say regarding mechanics seriously after that.
 
It simply doesn't matter at this point.

It's a collector's item. I want to own all of Ueda's work.
 
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