Steven Universe |OT4| Every Rose Has Its Thorns
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Ragnorok64
Member
I realize art isn't the strongest in this show, but I think Steven straight up changed size and proportion in a single shot. Specifically when he and Onion walked back to lean on the log at the end of the episode.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Art direction in this series is typically very strong imo, I think you're just noticing the seems in the crewniverse's very loose "depending on the boarder" style of animation direction (basically the overseas animators don't translate the visual language of the boards to a definitive uniform style, they're instructed to try to match an individual boarder's drawings)
They chose this kind of direction because it feels unique- Lamar episodes don't look like Jeff episodes for example- and harkens back to the experimental golden age (plus it probably makes it easier to work on), but it clearly has it downsides when it comes to consistent proportions and heights.
It can be a tiny bit bothersome when Steven and Connie's heads balloon to ridiculous sizes or Lapis' height fluctuates from Pearl-sized to barely taller than Steven in some shots. Lol
I see what you did there.
I like Onion as a background character causing mischief or something. I don't like episodes focused on him. That being said I HATE his friends and hope we never ever ever see them again in any capacity. This episode would have been 100% if their little car drove over a cliff at the end of the episode.
Atraveller
Banned
I don't like this episode but
holy shit calm down!
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I didn't hate the episode, just found it alright if not a little lacking in some areas. As I said a couple pages back, Onion is my least favorite supporting character in the cast, but I don't hate him. He has some nice sight gags, and that's when I like him most in his brief appearances, but the full episodes dedicated to him have weird plot things I just don't care for. What may actually be my least favorite episodes in the series is actually the first Onion episode (I think it was?) with the different Guys and the replicating rod, I thought this was much better than that personally.
I do think right now in Season 4, the huge difference in quality between episodes is major. There are some very, very good episodes, some of the series best. But also we have episodes that feel like they've come from early Season 1 Steven Universe, which just feel out of place with how the series has developed in the last 100+ episodes.
I don't mind the Beach City Town Folk episodes... in theory. And in fact, some of them I quite like. However the problem is... The Gems and only a few of the townsfolks of Beach City are actually really interesting, developed, and fun to watch. To be completely honest, most of the characters in Beach City just haven't had the sort of development the rest of the cast has. Steven himself, Garnet, Amethyst, Pearl, Lapis, Jasper, Peridot, Connie, Greg, and a few others are characters that appear regularly, have been fleshed out through the series, have actual deep character development, and its a joy to watch them on screen. But the Beach City townfolk are mostly lacking this. Some of them are fun personalities or have some fun one-off episodes, but almost none of the citizens of the town have felt they've grown at all in the series, and their episodes are usually centered around something thematic of the character. I understand that it lets them explore different types of episodes and stories, but they're feeling more and more like filler as the series goes on simply because most of the Beach City townfolk are just not as interesting as any of the main cast, or hell, any of the gems. The potential is there for them to be interesting, but how the show has been handling them so far I think is getting noticeably less enticing as the series goes on. Their plots feel flat, a lot of them have simple lessons with simple solutions that feel like something you've seen many times before without any particularly excellent execution, and the lessons learned feel self-contained. Think of the Beach City characters from Season 1, and think of them now here over 100 episodes later. Have any of them really grown as characters between now and then
I think Beach City is important to develop, it's an important theme to the show, but the series needs to figure out how to work with these episodes better. I get the Beach City episodes are to help ground plotlines in more normalcy and Steven's human side as well as develop a colorful cast of quirky characters that Steven and the Crystal Gems protect, but the execution is just off unfortunately ever since we came back from the barn. That's not to say every 'Beach Town' episode is bad, but in general they could use a lot of work.
Anyways, onto a likely hiatus we go. I do feel when we return that Season 4 is going somewhere. I feel we're going through all of these Beach City episodes early in since something more sinister is brewing. Some of the hanging plot threads, the creepy credits music for the last few episodes without special credits (ala Last One Out of Beach City), and the fact that with Jasper gone the Gems have no immediate major threat (Yellow Diamond sure, but she hasn't made herself a threat or presence to the Gems yet). We're probably going through these episodes now since something or another is being built-up to.
I do think right now in Season 4, the huge difference in quality between episodes is major. There are some very, very good episodes, some of the series best. But also we have episodes that feel like they've come from early Season 1 Steven Universe, which just feel out of place with how the series has developed in the last 100+ episodes.
I don't mind the Beach City Town Folk episodes... in theory. And in fact, some of them I quite like. However the problem is... The Gems and only a few of the townsfolks of Beach City are actually really interesting, developed, and fun to watch. To be completely honest, most of the characters in Beach City just haven't had the sort of development the rest of the cast has. Steven himself, Garnet, Amethyst, Pearl, Lapis, Jasper, Peridot, Connie, Greg, and a few others are characters that appear regularly, have been fleshed out through the series, have actual deep character development, and its a joy to watch them on screen. But the Beach City townfolk are mostly lacking this. Some of them are fun personalities or have some fun one-off episodes, but almost none of the citizens of the town have felt they've grown at all in the series, and their episodes are usually centered around something thematic of the character. I understand that it lets them explore different types of episodes and stories, but they're feeling more and more like filler as the series goes on simply because most of the Beach City townfolk are just not as interesting as any of the main cast, or hell, any of the gems. The potential is there for them to be interesting, but how the show has been handling them so far I think is getting noticeably less enticing as the series goes on. Their plots feel flat, a lot of them have simple lessons with simple solutions that feel like something you've seen many times before without any particularly excellent execution, and the lessons learned feel self-contained. Think of the Beach City characters from Season 1, and think of them now here over 100 episodes later. Have any of them really grown as characters between now and then
I think Beach City is important to develop, it's an important theme to the show, but the series needs to figure out how to work with these episodes better. I get the Beach City episodes are to help ground plotlines in more normalcy and Steven's human side as well as develop a colorful cast of quirky characters that Steven and the Crystal Gems protect, but the execution is just off unfortunately ever since we came back from the barn. That's not to say every 'Beach Town' episode is bad, but in general they could use a lot of work.
Anyways, onto a likely hiatus we go. I do feel when we return that Season 4 is going somewhere. I feel we're going through all of these Beach City episodes early in since something more sinister is brewing. Some of the hanging plot threads, the creepy credits music for the last few episodes without special credits (ala Last One Out of Beach City), and the fact that with Jasper gone the Gems have no immediate major threat (Yellow Diamond sure, but she hasn't made herself a threat or presence to the Gems yet). We're probably going through these episodes now since something or another is being built-up to.
The new episode wasn't as terrible as Future Boy Zoltron but it was still pretty bad. Steven narrating was unnecessary and having him gullible in that one scene felt really out of place. Guess it's hiatus now so sucks it's leaving off on that episode, hopefully when it comes back Steven goes to the farm to hang out or something.
They really don't. They just need to be be good. This was not.
You sure are short & to the point with your episode reviews, eh? It's a reoccurring theme for whenever you pop up.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It's weird to be watching these weekly after just marathoning the series a few weeks ago. And when they are mostly character pieces, it's seems super super slow.
I also realize that I have no idea what the larger arc is or will be. I wish there was just a little foreshadowing or something. Last One out of Beach City was great in part because it hints at future stuff-- but Future Boy and Onion Gang feel like cul-de-sacs.
That said-- I don't mind them, but it's hard when there are so many close together, and coming off of a binge. And I don't really care about Onion or Mr Smiley. Episodes like Mr Greg or Last One Out are at least about characters I care about.
Onion's awesome as an occasional gag. I don't like him as a character.
I also realize that I have no idea what the larger arc is or will be. I wish there was just a little foreshadowing or something. Last One out of Beach City was great in part because it hints at future stuff-- but Future Boy and Onion Gang feel like cul-de-sacs.
That said-- I don't mind them, but it's hard when there are so many close together, and coming off of a binge. And I don't really care about Onion or Mr Smiley. Episodes like Mr Greg or Last One Out are at least about characters I care about.
Onion's awesome as an occasional gag. I don't like him as a character.
Yeah. It sucked and that's it.
Chezzymann
Member
Didn't really like it. The past few beach city citizen focused episodes have been pretty poor IMO.
Considering how far the gem centered episodes have developed, the beach city ones feel like a completely different show. I wish they could find a way to integrate them better. I get they need to flesh out beach city but there has to be a better way to do it. To me that's this shows biggest flaw.
Considering how far the gem centered episodes have developed, the beach city ones feel like a completely different show. I wish they could find a way to integrate them better. I get they need to flesh out beach city but there has to be a better way to do it. To me that's this shows biggest flaw.
Ragnorok64
Member
I said "art" wasn't the strongest, not "art direction".
Yes but I only just now realize I totally missed out on a layers joke! ARGH
Exterminieren
Banned
I absolutely didn't mind the townie episodes when they were part of the full-blown Summer Adventures block, but waiting a week for Onion's Pointless Adventures does try the patience a bit.
Townsfolk episodes are more than capable of being fun- stuff like Restaurant Wars or Shirt Club are high on my favourites list- but stuff like Zoltron and last night's were just boring.
Townsfolk episodes are more than capable of being fun- stuff like Restaurant Wars or Shirt Club are high on my favourites list- but stuff like Zoltron and last night's were just boring.
michaeltraps
Member
I love Onion. That was an adorable episode.
What's with the hate?! Not every episode needs to move the gem plot along. Even in these townie episodes, there's usually a thread or two the ties directly into the greater story arc. The show is called Steven Universe, not The Crystal Gems.
What's with the hate?! Not every episode needs to move the gem plot along. Even in these townie episodes, there's usually a thread or two the ties directly into the greater story arc. The show is called Steven Universe, not The Crystal Gems.
Loved Garnet's "thumbs-up" candid photo
Baron von Loathsome
Member
I like that it humanized Onion a bit, but it was nothing to write home about.
Killer Queen
Banned
I really liked the episode and I figured I wouldn't.
Guys, I'm trying to get into this, because I keep hearing so much about it and all....
but these first 8 episodes are baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Steven's an insufferable, annoying idiot and it's overall not a very funny or clever show. Some nice ideas here and there, but overall, it's a major grind.
When does it get good?
but these first 8 episodes are baaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Steven's an insufferable, annoying idiot and it's overall not a very funny or clever show. Some nice ideas here and there, but overall, it's a major grind.
When does it get good?
I expected everyone to hate it. People have gotten it into their heads that this is basically Dragon Ball Z or One Piece or something, and they have a "canon vs filler" mentality. If it's not directly advancing the plot, it's not worth anything.
That's not how this show works.
Killer Queen
Banned
When the story actually starts. Just keep pushing through. I had a friend who was the same way and hated the show and took every chance he could to shit on it.
He kept watching
Now he loves it.
I didn't really start feeling the show at all until roughly around "Giant Woman", which is about 4 or 5 episodes ahead. Steven Universe is a slow burn, and they ration out lore, character, and the overall story a little bit at a time.
They're about to start laying some foundations, I'd say keep with it.
Corronchilejano
Member
Steven is a kid. He behaves like one too.
It took me around 15 episodes to get to the good stuff, and then I was even able to rewatch the first ones.
SilentMatthew
Member
Unfortunately there's no episode guide (e.g. SW: Clone Wars) yet surprisingly. Gonna grind through it or look through the episode list in Wiki and just skip the non-plot related eps.
Problem is pretty much every early episode has relevance later; else I'd be all for telling people to skip around a bunch until you're at episode 24.
SilentMatthew
Member
Hm, true now that I've taken a closer look at the list. Eh, there can be some trimming though. Looking at the wiki at the moment, ep. 5, 11, 22, 47 from season 1. Also, episodes 3, 7, 17 from S2. 7, 11, 12 from S3. As for S4, 5 and maybe 7. Could be a lot more if I cut out of whole cloth the Saddie/Lars stuff and Beach City episodes. Then again, it'll be cutting away too many bits that are relevant.
Reflecting now, this sorta solidifies my somewhat middling opinion on this series. I find most episodes are just okay. With the obvious opinion that the main-plot episodes are great, but I still have the same opinion as Veelk that this show is not that funny to me. Just that the characters, mainly the main cast, are what attracts to me to the series.
KenzinFive
Member
Season 1A is tough to get through if you don't already know what it's building up. It already claimed a friend of mine, who tried watching but gave up...right before Mirror Gem.
There's a decent fan-suggested order called Flood Order that I found a few months ago.
It cuts out a bulk of the season 1A episodes in order to get to Lapis faster. It also moves some episodes around, even placing Season 1A episodes like Tiger Millionaire in the second half of Season 1.
Here's the first phase:
1. Cheeseburger Backpack
2. Laser Light Cannon
3. Bubble Buddies
4. Steven’s Lion
5. Giant Woman
6. Steven the Sword Fighter
7. Lion 2: The Movie
8. An Indirect Kiss
9. Mirror Gem
10. Ocean Gem
After that, you reintegrates some of the skipped episodes into the following:
11. House Guest
12. Rose’s Room
13. Monster Buddies
14. Coach Steven
15. Lars and the Cool Kids
16. Joking Victim
17. Space Race
18. Secret Team
19. Garnet’s Universe
20. Tiger Millionaire
21. Island Adventure
22. Keep Beach City Weird!
23. Fusion Cuisine
24. Watermelon Steven
25. Lion 3: Straight to Video
After Lion 3, you're free to follow the original episode order. It's not perfect by any means. For example, I think removing Gem Glow robs us of Centipeetle until Monster Buddies and Steven's shield forming for the first time has some great music tied to it. I also have no idea why Secret Team wasn't cut. But I think it's a pretty good way to show someone the merits of the show and get to the "meat" of it more quickly.
I'll admit that the show doesn't truly shine until Lapis gets introduced, even if there's some great stuff like Pearl's "death" before that.
The full explanation is here: http://tumblr.katsuricata.com/post/140052092435/steven-universe-introducing-flood-order
Oh yeah, A LOT of the show's jokes are usually just it trying to be cute, and they often fall flat. I didn't find a whole episode hilarious until Season 3 with Barn Mates and Hit the Diamond, which are also plot-important episodes. Adventure Time completely trounces it when it comes to being reliably funny.
There's a decent fan-suggested order called Flood Order that I found a few months ago.
It cuts out a bulk of the season 1A episodes in order to get to Lapis faster. It also moves some episodes around, even placing Season 1A episodes like Tiger Millionaire in the second half of Season 1.
Here's the first phase:
1. Cheeseburger Backpack
2. Laser Light Cannon
3. Bubble Buddies
4. Steven’s Lion
5. Giant Woman
6. Steven the Sword Fighter
7. Lion 2: The Movie
8. An Indirect Kiss
9. Mirror Gem
10. Ocean Gem
After that, you reintegrates some of the skipped episodes into the following:
11. House Guest
12. Rose’s Room
13. Monster Buddies
14. Coach Steven
15. Lars and the Cool Kids
16. Joking Victim
17. Space Race
18. Secret Team
19. Garnet’s Universe
20. Tiger Millionaire
21. Island Adventure
22. Keep Beach City Weird!
23. Fusion Cuisine
24. Watermelon Steven
25. Lion 3: Straight to Video
After Lion 3, you're free to follow the original episode order. It's not perfect by any means. For example, I think removing Gem Glow robs us of Centipeetle until Monster Buddies and Steven's shield forming for the first time has some great music tied to it. I also have no idea why Secret Team wasn't cut. But I think it's a pretty good way to show someone the merits of the show and get to the "meat" of it more quickly.
I'll admit that the show doesn't truly shine until Lapis gets introduced, even if there's some great stuff like Pearl's "death" before that.
The full explanation is here: http://tumblr.katsuricata.com/post/140052092435/steven-universe-introducing-flood-order
Oh yeah, A LOT of the show's jokes are usually just it trying to be cute, and they often fall flat. I didn't find a whole episode hilarious until Season 3 with Barn Mates and Hit the Diamond, which are also plot-important episodes. Adventure Time completely trounces it when it comes to being reliably funny.
There were people who liked Beach City episodes in S1?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'd plow through to Lion 2 at least.
For me, I watched when it first aired for 3-4 episodes, and foudn it cute but uncompelling. I just sorta forgot about watchign it and stopped (as did my kids).
Something prompted them to go back to it a few months ago and we starting binging. I missed a lot of S1 and saw them in slightly scrambled order, but the benefit was that I got all sorts of hints of what was to come. Then I went back and rewatched S1 in its entirety. I'm now hooked.
MisterGrey3000
Member
(Not that I ever shared the same sentiment but...) If you're a newcomer and early Steven bothers you it's best to just follow online guides that layout all the really good episodes that advance the characters, lore, and main plot points.
Don't follow any that leave out "Monster Buddies" though, don't skip that it's important; I actually found a guide that skipped it, and I just kind of stopped reading.
Edit: Ah yes the "Flood Order", why do they insist on skipping "Monster Buddies"? It's part of an important character arc and helps set up an important part of the story, lore, and worldbuilding.
Edit: Read their reasoning, and I just can't agree. Monster Buddies is important, Watch it before or after "An Indirect Kiss".
????
Errrr...
The art is a huge part of the overall art direction, they're not really separate things.
:/
I'm just pointing out that your observations are rooted in the "depending the boarder" style they use.
The crewniverse's boarders are expected to be loose with the character designs and the overseas animators are encouraged to copy it; that's why you get scenes where Steven is suddenly bigger than he should be or whole episodes where characters have very different proportions (like with Lapis and Peri's really big hair in "Same Old World", courtesy of Lamar Abrams.)
Saying the "art is the strongest" as a general thing is weird when people like Rebecca, Jeff, and Lauren can draw their butts off and usually board the best looking episodes.
Don't follow any that leave out "Monster Buddies" though, don't skip that it's important; I actually found a guide that skipped it, and I just kind of stopped reading.
Edit: Ah yes the "Flood Order", why do they insist on skipping "Monster Buddies"? It's part of an important character arc and helps set up an important part of the story, lore, and worldbuilding.
Edit: Read their reasoning, and I just can't agree. Monster Buddies is important, Watch it before or after "An Indirect Kiss".
????
Errrr...
The art is a huge part of the overall art direction, they're not really separate things.
:/
I'm just pointing out that your observations are rooted in the "depending the boarder" style they use.
The crewniverse's boarders are expected to be loose with the character designs and the overseas animators are encouraged to copy it; that's why you get scenes where Steven is suddenly bigger than he should be or whole episodes where characters have very different proportions (like with Lapis and Peri's really big hair in "Same Old World", courtesy of Lamar Abrams.)
Saying the "art is the strongest" as a general thing is weird when people like Rebecca, Jeff, and Lauren can draw their butts off and usually board the best looking episodes.
Shang
Member
Man, I have no idea what to think of season 4 so far. On one hand, we have episodes like Mindful Education and Last One Out of Beach City, but on the other we have Buddy's Book, Future Boy Zoltron, and now Onion Gang. A lot of the Beach City citizen episodes recently have fallen so flat they're not even entertaining, which is weird coming from me because I used to like them a lot.
There were people who liked Beach City episodes in S1?
some still dwell among us, lurking in the shadows
also, Buddy's Book was fine
also, I liked the first batch of episodes from S1 where Steven goes on random adventures. We need more of those again
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Yeah the townie episodes are dragging this season down.
Klaymator14
Member
i feel the same way :\ what's changed? i feel like the townie episodes of season 1 were much more interesting than what we've been getting lately
also not sure if i'm of minority opinion here, but sometimes I just can't stand Steven's voice now, it almost sounds higher-pitched than back in Season 1... guess that's just the side effect of zach callison not being able to voice act with his normal speaking voice anymore
KenzinFive
Member
Buddy's Book was fine because it was a novelty episode with Jamie interacting with the Crystal Gems in colonial clothes, meeting Rose, and looking at gem structures, all with some subtle Lion backstory hints. It wasn't spectacular like Mindful Education or awesome like Last One Out of Beach City, but it was fun.
Zoltron and Onion Gang have been the two most recent episodes that I have barely cared about, at all. It was nice to see Onion get some development, but maaannn I had zero interest in a Mr. Smiley backstory.
Even The New Lars had better moments, particularly the weird private relationship we got to see with "Lars" and Sadie. It felt screwed up, but in the normal "imperfect people in their late teens/early 20s" sort of way.
I think having the Gems be completely or mostly absent from an episode really hurts it. The show is about Steven, sure, but he works best when he's interacting with them, Connie, or Greg. In the Season 1 townie episodes, the Gems found a way into the story, like in Onion Trade or Frybo. Now it's just slice of life stuff with the occasional weirdness or "Garnet makes a cameo to give Steven future vision" moments.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Buddy's Book was a lore building episode. That desert place is going to be important
I agree. I felt that this episode didn't add anything that we know already (such as Steven coming to the realization that he has no one around his age group to be with on a semi-consistent basis), and Onion works better for one-off gags.
I did laugh at Yellow Tail modeling for Vidalia, though.
MisterGrey3000
Member
The slice of life and gem-plots definitely need to start intermingling in a much more compelling way, and this was actually the perfect episode for that.
Imagine if Onion's friends were corrupted quartz runts instead of a generic gang of odd underdeveloped kids that we've seen a million times before.
A lonely, strange, and practically unintelligible child like Onion would definitely feel a substantial connection with strange, unintelligible, and loyal creatures that aren't really capable of judging him; plus he could use their brute strength to get what ever he wants, and even prank people with them.
The conflict could come in the form of Steven deciding whether or not he should poof Onion's corrupted gang or leave them alone because they're happy with Onion in the same way corrupted Centi is happy and peaceful around her crew, and Steven
Steven could even convince Onion that he shouldn't take advantage of them, and Onion will understand because the two have become buddies since "Onion Friend".
Why the crewniverse chose to go with the most boring and straightforward slice of life narrative concept is beyond me considering how imaginative and skilled these folks usually are are storytelling.
Imagine if Onion's friends were corrupted quartz runts instead of a generic gang of odd underdeveloped kids that we've seen a million times before.
A lonely, strange, and practically unintelligible child like Onion would definitely feel a substantial connection with strange, unintelligible, and loyal creatures that aren't really capable of judging him; plus he could use their brute strength to get what ever he wants, and even prank people with them.
The conflict could come in the form of Steven deciding whether or not he should poof Onion's corrupted gang or leave them alone because they're happy with Onion in the same way corrupted Centi is happy and peaceful around her crew, and Steven
Steven could even convince Onion that he shouldn't take advantage of them, and Onion will understand because the two have become buddies since "Onion Friend".
Why the crewniverse chose to go with the most boring and straightforward slice of life narrative concept is beyond me considering how imaginative and skilled these folks usually are are storytelling.
What's a good episode that never involved a gem or steven's powers
Because that wouldn't make any sense?
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
static characters are better support, the show wouldn't be that great if Garnet was the main character either, as cool as she is
I was thinking kind of the same, it would have been way better that way.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
This stops happening before long. Warp Tour, I think, is a big turning point.
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