My Beef with Summer Lesson

I don't get the point of Summer Lesson, or ecchi games in general. They're not explicit or erotic enough to facilitate masturbation, and they're too fan-servicey to be taken seriously. It's a weird middle ground that I'm not a fan of.

I don't think I ever played an ecchi game, so I can't speak for that particularly, but at least ecchi anime and manga are usually pretty funny, and not being straight up porn allows them to actually have some form of narrative and character development. Even if it's not deep, it's at least enough to make you care about it more than "for as long as your boner lasts", which would be the case with porn.

I don't think any manga made me laugh as hysterically as Prison School, and that's a manga that pushes "ecchi" as far as it can go. And the type of ridiculous and over the top humour it goes for wouldn't be the same without the eroticism.

When it comes to Summer Lesson, my interest in it is half-meme and half-"that's cute". It's like a slice of life anime in VR. I think it's actually completely different from ecchi stuff. For example, you have the fireworks thing, with "this is usually when couples hold hands" part, there's nothing "ecchi" about it, it's supposed to be cute. It was an adorable scene in the first episode of Hibike! Euphonium S02, for example, and that's an anime that I really enjoy for "legit reasons". Kumiko is a character that I can relate to, I see myself in her a lot of times, which is quite rare for me and anime in general.

EDIT: Oh, does Akiba's Trip count as an ecchi game? I have that one. Yeah, the game is pretty funny. It's a bit repetitive, but has some nice incentive for repeated playthroughs. I don't look at stuff like Akiba's Trip or the huge boobs in Senran Kagura and get horny, I just find it ridiculous and funny in a unique way.

It depends what you go into the game to get out of it. I personally don't care if it's a girl, guy, young, old, whatever. I want to see how uncomfortable I get with VR human interaction. Would I feel bad throwing a pencil at the person's face if they had realistic reactions and I made a 'bond' with them? Would I feel happy if my tutoring gave them a good grade? Or would there be that disconnect where like in Mass Effect I don't care and just go full renegade?

But the OP does bring up some interesting points that I feel conflicted about. I honestly don't know where I stand. I like to think that if it's all virtual, then who cares, but part of me wonders how indulging in such things may potentially change behavior or opinions in the real world.

I'm actually quite curious about that as well, even just watching the trailer and imagining it in VR, having never tested VR for myself, there were some scenes where I kinda backed off from the screen a bit, thinking "too close".

It's not the main draw for me, but I do wonder about it.
 
Things I learned recently about GAF: it seems a very progressive hive-mind but it's actually full of closet alt-right anime lovers, who would go to any length in order not to have their fun spoiled by any sensible or reasonable opinion.

Sorry OP, if someone is already so invested in the game as to declare that he would buy it and play it without thinking about the very evident issues you pointed out, there's no convincing that could make them think otherwise. You will only get back vitriol and sarcasm to reflect back any possible introspection. No discussion will ever happen on these basis.
First you call people closet alt-righters and then you lament the quality of discussion?
 
Actual footage of said game(starts at 4:52:00):
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/playstation-vr-launch-day-special/2300-11645/

This link is mainly for the people who are reaching or leaning too far in either direction, whether those of you who think it to be more sexual and offensive than it really is, or those of you who think it will be as entertaining as your DOAX3 playthrough.

Spoiler: It is neither, and it is boring.
I had only read comments about the game up until now(including this thread), but I expected something actually perverse. I was off the mark.

It's funny how perception of what something is can be so easily misconstrued.
 
I think 2. is a pretty good point. The absence of material to have healthy discussions on creates a much bleaker view of a subject. Because games which use sexuality tend to be superficial and cheap, the reputation is that if you have sex in your game you're just pandering to perverts or specific fetishes. This discourages developers from wanting to explore such themes unless they feel very strongly about them, because it cane be harmful for publicity and marketing. So we end up with a self fulfilling prophecy where most depictions of sexual themes in games are poor ones.

Would you consider Catherine an exception, or still not good enough for what you have in mind?

Well, I guess it's not really about sex, to be fair, but more of a "sex as part of life" things. It doesn't shy away from that, but it's more about relationships, and specifically marriage, than sexuality in general. But still, I'd say it counts.
 
Yeah, I think the really creepy part of this game is that it's a creepy teacher simulator. It's not only about ogling and flirting with a young girl. It's about unprofessionally doing so with someone who you are in a position of authority over. At the same time, while this is creepy as fuck, it could also be a really interesting experience that pushes gaming forward by making us empathize with a deplorable person who would hit on his (oblivious or not) student. It could be interesting in the same way as Nabokov's novel Lolita (about a pedofile and rapist) is considered a literary masterwork.
 
Ding ding ding.

Though I welcome everyone to the next photorealistic murder sim hype thread.
Firstly I think a murder sim game in VR would raise debate.
Secondly, I think the discussion in here is whether this game simulates abuse of women in any way (I argue it does, or rather it is intended to be "misused" for that), but what you and some are claiming now is that even if it does its fine cause there are other bad things out there? Do you really think a game where you can and obviously are intended to take advantage of a young woman (lets assume it does that for a second) is all fine? Shouldn't there be some outrage if that is the case?
 
I think it's really weird your criticizing people for being interested in a game you haven't actually played. Like I understand why your uncomfortable with the game and it's completely reasonable, but you shit up your own thread by casting aspersions.

I don't really have an opinion on Summer Lesson outside of "it's not a real human so whatever".
 
I haven't played it, have no intention of jumping in on VR at all, I'm just going off what I saw in Tokyo game show feed, etc. but I'm a bit confused. I thought she was flirting with you or enjoying her suggestive powers over you at least. But she's feeding you, zooming in on you, twirling in a maid costume for you, etc. completely oblivious to her charms?! I guess the situations they show seem too obviously loaded for her to be believably unaware of what she is toying with. It also seems completely unbelievable that people are not playing this game largely for that side of the relationship for that reason. It seems to be classic make the target of perversion do the work to make it seem less perverted and keep it tame enough that it doesn't unsettle people who want to play that fantasy without baggage.

But she isn't actually aware of what perversions she's playing with? I guess that also feeds the fantasy. Teenage girl toying with you because she sees you're a pervert and she likes being wanted/having power but she doesn't actually want you is scary. But could also just be she is genuinely flirting with you oblivious to how that compromises you as her tutor?

I think the game is supposed to be a fluff softcore fan service fantasy where there is a problematic relationship that many men like to fantasize about, which avoids being problematized by staying very ephemeral. But again, I'd find it weird if she is as clueless as OP posits.

I do find the justifying silly. "I just want to see what it's like to tutor!" Let's be honest, if you were tutoring a male, this game wouldn't get half of its current hype.

You don't have to justify your interest in the game, but if you do, don't lie.

Also this. I really hate this about these conversations. People trip over themselves to both defend the content and to deny that it actually is that content for them at the same time. Makes it really hard to have an honest conversation. I say what I say above knowing that at some level the fantasy does appeal to me (as I understood it, younger woman who looks up to you in some way and with a certain innocence presses upon you). I feel knowing that I need to look at its dark side both in the general sense and in the sense of why that is appealing to me. That doesn't mean there is no room to explore the fantasy, but personally I avoid things where that is pretty much all that is going on. There just isn't enough there to keep my interest. I like my fantasy-stroking within a wider story, but I have no interest in porn either, so I get that I am weird.
 
Is there anything lamer than people posting bingo boards? The nadir of internet discussion. Just write a list of arguments you don't want to engage with.

Then again this is a thread that is about "Why don't hate you what I hate? I'm so disappointed in the audience", so tact is out of the window.


Summer Lesson seems like a fairly innocuous game where the dirtiest thing going on is going to be in your mind, and it probably knows that. Talking to a cute girl is not "fanservice", although evidently it's not exactly pure either. It does seem boring and gimmicky, but I think novelty of VR may make it worth a try. I wouldn't be surprised dating sims, including the ones with the naughty bits, were valid early steps or experiments in how we do role-playing and human to human interaction in videogames; this seem kind of like that.


It's about execution when it comes down to that. The key criterion, IMO, comes down to the word 'senseless' and how context justifies 'senselessness'.

Does said work handle problematic topics/content well? More specifically, does it indulge in the problematic stuff? Does it have something to say about the issue(s), or does it provide a new perspective on it/them? Does it contextualise them in a realistic way?

(Of course not everything has to, especially works which are lighthearted or have a lot of levity.)

For instance, that massacre game. What's it called. "Hatred"? IIRC it did critically badly because it didn't have anything new to say and just indulged in senseless behaviour. But plenty of games with violence do not indulge in the senselessness. Some do - and again, that's fine if executed right- instead they contextualise it and make it part of their narrative. That's an important part of Western action games: contextualising the violence. In your example, imagine a game adaptation of American History X where we play a white supremacist. Even if we only played the home drama bits. That would be saying something about white supremacy, and when the player is forced to attack his sister, the violence would be contextualised and have a dramatic purpose.

...

This probably deserves more since I'm branching out on a few points, but I'm going to try to be succinct, even to a fault, since I don't want to write as much as you did right now. You restrict art too much to "narrative". Your basing everything on "senseless behavior" fails to consider the context of indulging in aesthetics, through abstraction and stylization. Not every game is trying to build a logical world or make that world at the center of the experience (ironically, this is anything, but "senseless", it involves the stimulation of our senses). A fighting game with outlandish characters paired with illogical inability to step sideways (unless a specific animation calls for it) can be beautiful and engaging even if it is not working with a story-based context. Along those lines, things like sexualized camera direction, characters yelling out their attack names or doing JoJo's-style poses, or not moving in combat in a JRPG, are not significant problems with "context", because the context of art exists above "setting" or "story" or "realism". At the end of the day, all of the various ways to make a game work is based on the "experience" of it, not some strict rule-set of what stories are supposed to be like and whatnot. Story/setting-context is not an end, it's a means.

As for "problematic" content and Hatred vs. sexy games, you are equating the narrative context of civilian massacre with sexual indulgence (and I struggle to see how Summer Lesson enters into it, since it features no explicit content). "Problematic" simply means "I have a problem with this" (or the people you are representing do), so it's not a stretch to say there are people who don't have a problem or have as much of a problem with different things. Every game depends on how it deals with "problematic content" (i.e., the parts you don't like), and "problematic topics" just adds another reason to have a negative reaction to something. Indulging in parts you don't like and indulging in parts you find problematic is the same thing. Trying create a special rule-set for problematic content through "realistic excuses" is a distraction, especially to people who don't find that context problematic or problematic in the same way. (I'm purposefully ignoring the whole aspect of "this game will change you into a worse person in some way" aspect. Plenty of other people seem interested in challenging that in this thread though.)

Hatred is actually not "senseless", as you put it. It simply deals with an unpleasant and extreme narrative context (suicide-homicide killing spree). Compared to something like Postal or even GTA (admittedly both more humorous games), it actually goes out of its way to give the game a really heavy stylized look to empower this dark, twisted aspect. This is different from characters doing sexy poses towards an otherwise unacknowledged player-controlled camera, which lacks of that context. Whether it has something to say (also lol at their being all these "new" things to say) depends on what you read from it (as it is with all art, messages are created by the audience based on their own understanding). It's impossible to walk away from something without a message, even if it's one you don't like or take pleasure in. You can call Hatred nihilistic or deconstructs common decency, but those are in fact "messages" that say something about life. (I would reiterate that I think the experience is more important than (or perhaps just uses) the message you want to conjure up in a highly immersive work of fiction.)

And through the whole "I'm going to gleefully murder people with a head-exploding shotgun and ninja-kill them before they react, but I can only feel okay if they says they are THE TERRORISTS" thing we can see a sort of discomfort (and dishonesty) with the fact we like the killing part (including the aesthetic of it) too. Not acknowledging that, as a game which is more concerned with the aesthetics than the excuse may force us to, comes across as burying your head in the sand. I mean what else would you call trying to create a mile-wide barrier between Hatred and GTA?


Things I learned recently about GAF: it seems a very progressive hive-mind but it's actually full of closet alt-right anime lovers, who would go to any length in order not to have their fun spoiled by any sensible or reasonable opinion.

Sorry OP, if someone is already so invested in the game as to declare that he would buy it and play it without thinking about the very evident issues you pointed out, there's no convincing that could make them think otherwise. You will only get back vitriol and sarcasm to reflect back any possible introspection. No discussion will ever happen on these basis.

You were disappointed you couldn't join a hive-mind? Not sure who you are insulting more, "left" GAF, secret "alt-right" GAF, or yourself.
 
I don't think it's malevolent or anything like that.

It is a bit creepy though, and as a female, it does make me feel uncomfortable but people are free to do whatever they want.

I do find the justifying silly. "I just want to see what it's like to tutor!" Let's be honest, if you were tutoring a male, this game wouldn't get half of its current hype.

You don't have to justify your interest in the game, but if you do, don't lie.
 
I don't think it's malevolent or anything like that.

It is a bit creepy though, and as a female, it does make me feel uncomfortable but people are free to do whatever they want.

I do find the justifying silly. "I just want to see what it's like to tutor!" Let's be honest, if you were tutoring a male, this game wouldn't get half of its current hype.

You don't have to justify your interest in the game, but if you do, don't lie.

Tbh i'm hoping harada keeps his word and adds a male to the game. There needs to be equal opportunity
 
I enjoyed your write up OP, but after looking into the game more, I feel like this is better saved for a less tame game. Down the line a game could, (and probably will), come out that warrants this discussion, but not this one from what I can tell from gameplay videos I've seen at least.
 
Depends on the tropes they go for with the male character, I guess. Most male anime tropes for characters around that age aren't very interesting for a tutoring game, imo.

One I'd be interested in is the "sports guy who has trouble with studies but really wants to improve and is unusually honest about it with someone he barely knows". That could be fun, and pretty funny in the inevitable "this is hard, let's take a break" scene when you've been studying for 5 minutes.
 
I haven't played it, have no intention of jumping in on VR at all, I'm just going off what I saw in Tokyo game show feed, etc. but I'm a bit confused. I thought she was flirting with you or enjoying her suggestive powers over you at least. But she's feeding you, zooming in on you, twirling in a maid costume for you, etc. completely oblivious to her charms?! I guess the situations they show seem too obviously loaded for her to be believably unaware of what she is toying with. It also seems completely unbelievable that people are not playing this game largely for that side of the relationship for that reason. It seems to be classic make the target of perversion do the work to make it seem less perverted and keep it tame enough that it doesn't unsettle people who want to play that fantasy without baggage.

But she isn't actually aware of what perversions she's playing with? I guess that also feeds the fantasy. Teenage girl toying with you because she sees you're a pervert and she likes being wanted/having power but she doesn't actually want you is scary. But could also just be she is genuinely flirting with you oblivious to how that compromises you as her tutor?

I think the game is supposed to be a fluff softcore fan service fantasy where there is a problematic relationship that many men like to fantasize about, which avoids being problematized by staying very ephemeral. But again, I'd find it weird if she is as clueless as OP posits.
That point surprised me as well. I assumed that it was meant to be more intentional flirting.

I also wonder if the player character is given an age by the game. Most people make it sound like as if you play as a 30 year old teacher, but a tutor might as well be someone who's just one or two grades above you. Or perhaps theres no age at all which would make it depend on whoever plays the game.
 
So the game is like a porn movie set-up but without the actual pornographic content? What's the hook?
Wired made it sound pretty interesting

Things started off fairly benign, with the student appearing and sitting down next to you, reading from a textbook. You could choose to teach English to a Japanese student in her bedroom, or Japanese to an American student at a beach house. At one point, and this happens in either scenario, the student leans in very close and asks, “Sensei, how do you read this word?” Then she places the book in front of your face, leaning into you in what can only be described as an extremely intimate manner.

My heart rate went up. The experience triggered the same alarms that would go off if a real-life stranger got so close I could feel her breath. This goes on for a few minutes, with the student perhaps leaning over you to pick something up, or leaning in to whisper something in a hushed, conspiratorial tone.

It’s important to note that this is not about gawking at a virtual woman. Everyone involved is dressed entirely appropriately. There are no bikinis, no peeks up a skirt, nothing like that. This isn’t salacious. But it is, quite plainly, erotic. It’s supposed to be. The genius of Summer Lesson is how it illustrates the sheer power of virtual reality to not only transport you but to create genuine emotional reactions to what you see. The women in Summer Lesson need not dress provocatively, or talk about sex, or do anything more than get slightly closer than societal convention typically allows.
https://www.wired.com/2015/09/playstation-vr-kitchen-summer-lesson/
 
Woah... 7 full length pages??? This must be interesting...

I think the OP does bring up some interesting points and is fairly nuanced. At least much more than a lot of these kinds of threads (from both sides).

Can't say the same for some of the actual posts.
 
I have no idea how can someone be ok with God of War and then complain about Summer Lesson.

The Poseidon's Princess bit from God of War 3 is far more vile and insulting than anything in Summer Lesson. I think they even cut that part from the PS4 version of the game.
 
This game isn't my cup of tea. It seems awkward to me..

but

I an super glad it exists. Whether or not it was the intention or not, it is the exact thing VR needs; an experience that cannot be had anywhere else. Its a pretty interesting idea that if expanded could lead to legit advancement in interaction with AI. Be it erotic or not....

I hope Harada and team expands on it by adding different types of people and all that jazz...even if I may never play it.
 
Lol it seemed to be totally understood amongst everyone here that this game was some "animated Japanese girl waifu simulator" bullshit before this thread. Now all the sudden it's some kind of high art. Pllleeeaseee...

I find it pretty creepy and I'm not gonna have it anywhere near my PS4 but, ultimately, there's a lot of strangely sexualized gaming stuff coming from Japan that I've always been able to avoid. I'm just glad this thing isn't making it out west any time soon because, when I tell people I got a PSVR, I really don't want them to assume I'm in it for this shit.
 
I argue that Summer Lesson comes much closer to simulating this example. So is it OK because video game? The girl doesn't actually exist, so no harm done right? But again, I don't give it a free pass. I still think it's valid to question a game that is designed to evoke this type of motivation by the player. I also think it's valid to question why people would want to experience it in the first place.

What a time to be alive... VR will bring forth various topics of philosophical discussion, including this one. Not a new topic, but new to a lot of people who will take part in that discussion.

Keep in mind, however, that this could be seen as a cultural thing. Japan has been on the perve-bandwaggon for years now... within all their forms of media. This was just the next logical step.

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I don't think it's depressing at all for the gaming audience to not give backlash to summer lesson. It's not like it's that important since it's not showing anything illegal or disgustingly gory. It's just chill. Nothing wrong with the game.
 
I'm just glad this thing isn't making it out west any time soon because, when I tell people I got a PSVR, I really don't want them to assume I'm in it for this shit.

That's a pretty nonsensical mindset, tbh. Are you embarrassed of admitting that you have internet, a computer, movies? Those are things that are used for porn, and in much larger quantity and more explict content than anything that will ever come out for PSVR in Japan.
 
I haven't read the entire thread because it's long so maybe these points were brought up, but anyway here's the thing.

Regardless of how the game can be used by the audience, it's still an absolutely impressive piece of technology. You heard about it in impressions when people grew positively uncomfortable when the girl(s) got in their personal space and other such events.

Is it still a "waifu simulator"? Maybe, but it's absolutely a fascinating step toward fully immersive social simulators that anyone that cares about immersive technological experiences shouldn't see as a negative.

You say you never played it, so maybe try to remedy that before judging those that have (even if you have to use a friend's or something)/
 
Things I learned recently about GAF: it seems a very progressive hive-mind but it's actually full of closet alt-right anime lovers, who would go to any length in order not to have their fun spoiled by any sensible or reasonable opinion.

Sorry OP, if someone is already so invested in the game as to declare that he would buy it and play it without thinking about the very evident issues you pointed out, there's no convincing that could make them think otherwise. You will only get back vitriol and sarcasm to reflect back any possible introspection. No discussion will ever happen on these basis.

You think everyone who disagrees with your opinion is instantly from the alt-right?


Sad!
 
Things I learned recently about GAF: it seems a very progressive hive-mind but it's actually full of closet alt-right anime lovers, who would go to any length in order not to have their fun spoiled by any sensible or reasonable opinion.

Sorry OP, if someone is already so invested in the game as to declare that he would buy it and play it without thinking about the very evident issues you pointed out, there's no convincing that could make them think otherwise. You will only get back vitriol and sarcasm to reflect back any possible introspection. No discussion will ever happen on these basis.

This is a really weird point. People being interested in a potentially revolutionary bit of technology makes them alt-right? I'm as left as most of gaf, so it's weird to see accusations like this. Of course I feel like the term alt-right has almost lost all meaning at this point when I see a lot of people being accused as such when they have a single moderate or right-leaning opinion and are total lefties otherwise.
 
That's a pretty nonsensical mindset, tbh. Are you embarrassed of admitting that you have internet, a computer, movies? Those are things that are used for porn, and in much larger quantity and more explict content than anything that will ever come out for PSVR in Japan.

Nah, because everyone knows what's up with the Internet and films at this point. There's not a ton of content on VR and a large portion of the population probably can't fully contextualize what VR is and what you can do in it. This is not how I would choose to introduce a newcomer to VR because I find the blatantly obvious subtext/allure a bit unsettling.

That's my problem, of course. I'm not saying this software has no right to exist, or that anyone who partakes is some sort of degenerate... I just prefer to call it what it is and I'd prefer this type of human-interaction VR breakthrough to not have these blatant, pandering undertones.
 
Would you consider Catherine an exception, or still not good enough for what you have in mind?

Well, I guess it's not really about sex, to be fair, but more of a "sex as part of life" things. It doesn't shy away from that, but it's more about relationships, and specifically marriage, than sexuality in general. But still, I'd say it counts.

I thought about mentioning it, but shamefully I haven't actually gotten around to ever playing the game, so I can't say for sure! :(
 
I agree with OP, but I'm also cognizant that our great-grandkids will be fucking Westworld androids all day long, so this seems like a natural yet creepy stepping stone that we were bound to hit eventually, and will look back on as quaint.
 
If video games haven't made me criminally violent then these games aren't going to turn me into a sexual predator.

It is not THAT simple because how our culture works with sex and violence are COMPLETLY different.

Our culture is full of "killing is bad" while we have stuff like rape culture that encompasses lots of the stuff that trivializes predatory behavior .... so if a game is another thing doing this than it might help to someone rationalize what they are doing as ok since everything they see and hear is saying it is ok to do this shit
 
New frontier baby! We're gonna have the equivalent of VR Hotline Miami one of these days so I can really see what it's like to slice a person's face off up close. Maybe we'll get a demo where we can get almost right up to the rape scene and theeeeen stop. For maximum ludo narrative dissonance.

I think it's gross in its obvious-infantile-pandering way like a fucking Maxim advertisement, but I don't have beef with the software or its makers, people gonna people. If it stops someone from enacting taboo fantasies, it could provide some therapy... Or normalize and trivialize a mentality so that it becomes easier for people to lean into actions they might not otherwise do!

Either way, what are all turned on by more in VR- torturing a potential murder victim or just you know, grabbing their pussies?

I agree with OP, but I'm also cognizant that our great-grandkids will be fucking Westworld androids all day long, so this seems like a natural yet creepy stepping stone that we were bound to hit eventually, and will look back on as quaint.
Basically.

Thankfully, we can still all choose whether or not to indulge, unlike that one Black Mirror episode.
 
Nah, because everyone knows what's up with the Internet and films at this point. There's not a ton of content on VR and a large portion of the population probably can't fully contextualize what VR is and what you can do in it. This is not how I would choose to introduce a newcomer to VR because I find the blatantly obvious subtext/allure a bit unsettling.

That's my problem, of course. I'm not saying this software has no right to exist, or that anyone who partakes is some sort of degenerate... I just prefer to call it what it is and I'd prefer this type of human-interaction VR breakthrough to not have these blatant, pandering undertones.

Oh, I know what you mean, it's only the "I'm glad it's not being localized" part that's weird to me. I probably wouldn't introduce someone to VR with Summer Lesson either, but it being available for purchase in my region doesn't change that.

I thought about mentioning it, but shamefully I haven't actually gotten around to ever playing the game, so I can't say for sure! :(

Fair enough. When I read your post, I instantly searched the thread for "Catherine". Surprised that no one brought it up yet.
 
You know, I didn't think anything of that pen gif UNTIL I saw her reaction. Why is she covering herself like that in embarrassment if the game doesn't expect you to check her out at least a bit in that scene?
 
Reading back some of the thread, I see people comparing this to rape simulators. That's... really bizarre if you take any time to research the game, which the OP actually has...

People will want all kinds of porn/pervy experiences with VR, that is only natural. We have laws and ratings that should prevent rape/pedo stuff from ever releasing in legit marketplaces.

On PSVR, sure as true pornographic experiences wouldn't be allowed, but I'm definitely expecting stuff like that on PC VR. Whether there should be laws against it or not, well that's another topic entirely.
 
Definitely agree with the OP.

By not being explicitly sexual, the game rather aims to reward an unethical behavior. It's basically a game about pretending to be decent person, while you're secretly just using them.

It's the dishonesty, and the fact that you're enabled in it by saying it's just a game, that makes me uneasy.

I'm not suggesting anything happen, I just also agree that this warrants a discussion on what we as consumers want/dont want as much.
 
On PSVR, sure as true pornographic experiences wouldn't be allowed, but I'm definitely expecting stuff like that on PC VR. Whether there should be laws against it or not, well that's another topic entirely.

Illusions Summer Lesson Clone will feature Sex.

Also Illusion patched their old engines for VR, so you can play stuff like Artificial Girl or Custom Maid 3d already in VR.
 
This game seems incredibly innocent. Sure, there is an element of sexualization but there is nothing wrong with that. I don't get the outrage here.
 
I don't know why folks try to think this there is some sort of equivalence with murdering people and being a pedo. They are completely seperate.

Scientifically-speaking (and you know, based on common sense) they really aren't. Fantasy is fantasy regardless of what it entails.

But this is a moot point because this isn't even close to a "pedo simulator". Save your outrage for when those start appearing with VR, which they definitely will.
 
I have no idea how can someone be ok with God of War and then complain about Summer Lesson.

The Poseidon's Princess bit from God of War 3 is far more vile and insulting than anything in Summer Lesson. I think they even cut that part from the PS4 version of the game.

That was kept in, just the trophy was removed.
 
I was reading an old article about how having more axis of controls makes a game more immersive.

Our controllers are getting more and more complicated that we have gone from D-Pads and sticks, to hand motion inputs, and now our heads are inputs as well.

This game is considered as tame as dating sim games can go, but people find a problem because you can now physically peek down and ogle at a girl, and make her feel uncomfortable. Would it be less sick if you do the same thing via a controller, rotating the sticks so the camera can glance down at her?

I wonder if the same thing can be said for violent games. Let's say that problematic God of War scenes. Imagine if VR is the input, and you physically grab the neck off the enemies. I can't even watch those scenes without feeling sick, I wonder how bad it would be if you are fully immersed in VR doing that action.
 
We have a winner right here folks. So much this.

That's a boring non-argument. Why is so much of the knee-jerk reaction to this suggesting that criticism = censorship? They're free to make the game, I'm free to say it's creepy as shit and appeals to the worst in people. It's simulating ogling a young girl who doesn't have the choice not to be ogled.
 
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