GinoFelino
Member
Well, maybe read at least some of the thread before posting
A lot of what you're saying is fairly sensible, but bolded is misinformed.
Okay. Console that releases a year later is more powerful. Got it.
PS4 Pro PR has been terrible
- Thread starter Caipirinha
- Start date
A lot of what you're saying is fairly sensible, but bolded is misinformed.
Okay. Console that releases a year later is more powerful. Got it.
Astral Dog
Member
1 GB of Slow RAM!
1. Some users will double dip, more sales
2. Normal PS4 needed a price drop to attract more customers
3. Add another SKU at original price to keep spending ceiling high
4. Generate new interest in old system, did wonders for the Xbox One S
5. Try out new business model in a stable, low risk environment
6. Keep some users from defecting to PC because of mid-generation slump
As you see, all but 5. means more potential revenue for Sony. It's not hard to see why.
EventHorizon
Member
Maybe you should read what I wrote because not only does that not contradict me, it backs me up. So once again, please state specifically what you think I said was wrong?Well, maybe read at least some of the thread before posting
A lot of what you're saying is fairly sensible, but bolded is misinformed.
Okay. Console that releases a year later is more powerful. Got it.
well ok then.
I shall refrain from any future posts on the topic.
Fantastic response btw
What do you expect when you invent fantasy scenarios that make no sense. There were developer slides talking all about 4K before the Scorpio video you somehow believe changed Sony's focus.
The tech wouldn't be any better and they would miss out of the millions of Pro sales in November thru February.
We first heard Sony talk about an upgraded PS4 a year ago, long before Scorpio.
We first heard Sony talk about an upgraded PS4 a year ago, long before Scorpio.
people probably would have reacted even worse than they have to the Pro TBH
GinoFelino
Member
Something you wrote backs you up? Shocking!
You said PS4P is 'a nice little bump in graphical quality for those who have 4K HDR TVs. That's it.'
That's misinformation. It benefits 1080p TV owners and non-HDR 4K TV owners as well.
Mihalis0013
Neo Member
No I actually wasn't being sarcastic. I enjoyed your response. It made me laugh.
To clarify my thought, it isn't that Sony suddenly changed everything about what they were doing because of a 3 minute video from the competition. Obviously that's lunacy. But following tech for several years, typically code names go together for a reason and supposedly VR GPU requirements are high and iirc one dev earlier this year leaked or mentioned something about the GPU boost being very helpful for VR. Maybe I read way too much into it. I think they changed some of the messaging not the machine itself like I have seen others suggest. Based on the few comments I read, people tend to disagree with me which is fine.
I found your response particularly enjoyable (no sarcasm).
EventHorizon
Member
Nice selective quoting you've got going there. Not feeling secure enough in your argument to actually quote that entire sentence? For god's sake it's only two more all important words. Here let me help you out:
"It's mostly a nice little bump in graphical quality for those who have 4K HDR TVs."
And if you doubt that characterization then I suggest you rewatch the unveiling event and notice what was emphasized.shinobi602
Member
What's the correlation between the two? What's Rockstar's model have to do with it? The base PS4 will continue to get full support until the PlayStation 5 rolls around, regardless of the Pro existing or not.
I'd say that's because they don't want to confuse anyone into thinking that you need a pro for VR.
You could apply that to anything. I guess nobody should complain about anything since there's always somebody that wants it?
Lmao
Is it toddler's bullshit when people were hoping the same thing for the original XB1 drm plans, or when they complain about "preorder/season pass culture"?
Honestly think Neogaf MS fans posting obnoxious fantasy time assertions about some magic Xbox One revision that doesn't exist outside of a codename is becoming the single most annoying thing to see on gaf right now. It's like there's no getting away from it no matter where you look.
I cannot believe there are people who believe Scorpio has had any kind of influence on Sony's PS4 Pro plan, especially when you actually look at that Scorpio "announcement" at E3, which is one of the most reactionary things I think I've ever seen at E3.
I cannot believe there are people who believe Scorpio has had any kind of influence on Sony's PS4 Pro plan, especially when you actually look at that Scorpio "announcement" at E3, which is one of the most reactionary things I think I've ever seen at E3.
names2hard4you
Member
I don't think it needs crazy amounts of PR, going by the amount of people on GAF saying they have one preordered. Those are the target audience anyway.
People like me, or even the more casual gamers don't need a Pro. They don't have the right TV, the money, or the fact that a lot of information is missing, alongside with how games for people with 1080p screen will only really take advantage of this if the developers so choose.
It's not worth it. This is a hardcore system for those in the know. I believe the Slim is the one that is going to shine and sell through the holidays for new adopters thanks to the reduced price and the bundles.
People like me, or even the more casual gamers don't need a Pro. They don't have the right TV, the money, or the fact that a lot of information is missing, alongside with how games for people with 1080p screen will only really take advantage of this if the developers so choose.
It's not worth it. This is a hardcore system for those in the know. I believe the Slim is the one that is going to shine and sell through the holidays for new adopters thanks to the reduced price and the bundles.
GinoFelino
Member
I quoted you fully and bolded the relevant part the first time around. No need to repeat everything.
I can see you're not willing to admit much at all. You weren't talking about the unveiling event or its characterisation of the Pro, you were talking about the Pro's benefits when compared to the OG PS4.
Norse
Member
I thought most of the reaction was good. Cept for lack of advertising.
Mihalis0013
Neo Member
That's the point I was failing to get at. I think that the Pro will benefit PSVR a lot. I think that Sony decided to not go with that message.
Clearly I have no actual information on this and it's just my opinion.
When I look at PC VR GPU requirements and then look at PS4 GPU and the recent article where Cerny was describing the Pro as almost having a second identical GPU seemed to lend itself to the idea of VR given that to my understanding you have to render the picture for each eye.
I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see the Pro messaged more towards VR. Or maybe I'm completely wrong.
blue_phazon
Member
The difference is Iterative models aren't bad for gamers, XB1 DRM was.
Although I don't think season pass/pre-order stuff is bad either
You can always just buy the base version. Just wait for PS5.
I hope there's not gonna be a PS5. Just a new Playstation iteration every 2 years.
VincentMatts
Member
Honestly, i feel the same way. I cancelled my pre-order yesterday. I still have no idea whats going to be done for BF1 if anything and its coming out in what, 2 weeks? How are there not more specific details about when patches come out and what they do? Its out in 2 weeks! Everything about this feels very "last minute" to the point where im not super confident about it for launch.
I rather wait and see how it all plays out first.
Farpoint(PSVR-game) will have 2x pixels on Pro for example
Season pass preorder stuff is even the same vein of the Pro ala "if you don't like it don't buy it but it's fine for other people to want it"
Mihalis0013
Neo Member
I believe that was the only game mentioned in the reveal event that had any kind of VR Pro benefit right?
I have not tried any of the VR (other than Galaxy which doesn't count) but my understanding is frame rate is very important to keep people from getting sick.
Maybe that will be the big difference. PSVR with PS4 will work great, PSVR with Pro will be the "high" graphic settings version.
I guess we'll know more in a few weeks.
Here you can read about some games that will get VR Pro-patches. https://m.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/590ek5/a_list_of_psvr_games_with_pro_upgrade_confirmed/
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The messaging has been extremely confusing, they're taking a half-measure on the 4k part, the haven't fully conveyed the benefits for those without 4K displays, none of the games don't look that much better, and it plays all the same games as those on a machine that's $100 cheaper. I could see a slightly upgraded console being good idea on paper but truth be told the marketing has done nothing to really make me excited. Maybe they should've taken the Xbox One S route and add a drive and upscaling for games while waiting to make the big leap with the PS5 2-3 years down the line.
Mihalis0013
Neo Member
Thanks. Reading down a few comments, it seems that devs are finding big benefits from the Pro for their VR projects so maybe my theory isn't completely insane, just the way I worded it was terrible. Thanks again for the link.
Please!
This industry has been chasing successful sales models for decades to the point of saturation and devaluation. Successful ventures become the norm. DLC, season passes, microtransactions, and now mid-gen iterations. These things start out innocuously enough, until they encompass more of the original element. Prince of Persia cutting the ending to sell it as an epilogue DLC. Star Wars Battlefront being a platform to sell a season pass. GTAV dropping single player DLC for online microtransaction-laden online elements...
And that brings us to the latest trend. Sony claims everything will be designed to still run on the PS4 throughout the PS4/Pro lifespan, but there is always the potential of iterative *.5 consoles being necessary to enjoy the most out of games later on. It's not a stretch to imagine a stair of affairs where games run/look shitty compared to a lead platform being the upgrade.
If it doesn't happen this generation, what about next gen? There's nothing successful in this industry that hasn't been pushed too far, and then become the norm.
When things don't work, though, they get abandoned. EA and Sony's online passes to play online failed, thankfully, and ceased to become a trend. Unfortunately, it seemed to cause companies to double down on the methods I listed above.
Killing_Joke
Member
It has better graphics. What's more to say that hasn't been said? Same thing for VR. You can have all the YouTube videos and FAQs and it won't mean shit till you try it.
The fact that it's so cheap makes it a nonissue for me. All of the tests have been positive. My true issue is picking a damn TV.
The fact that it's so cheap makes it a nonissue for me. All of the tests have been positive. My true issue is picking a damn TV.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
I can't see this happening without Sony destroying most of the good will they built up for the past five years.
well thats an extremely cynical way to look at it
Darkangel
Member
Microsoft has an incentive to start the next generation early since they're currently getting destroyed. The PS4 Pro is a weird half-step that can't really do native 4K and is hamstrung by an old CPU architecture.
I'm assuming that corporate researchers know more about the competition than the general public. Maybe they caught wind that Microsoft was toying with the idea of a new console relaunch. I could easily see Sony fast-tracking the Pro in order to beat Microsoft to the punch.
It just seems like an awkward time to upgrade the PS4 when you consider all of the new technology that is right around the corner.
My thoughts exactly.
Why isn't it bad for people who like generations? And you'll find plenty of people who wish Microsoft would've stuck with the original XB1 drm plans, people who wouldn't have been negatively affected by them. Is it fair that they can deflect all the criticism MS was receiving by just shouting "selfish"?
GinoFelino
Member
I actually think you're right, but you chose the wrong venue to vent.
The Pro isn't a cynical cashgrab by any stretch.
You've based this post on the false assumption that Microsoft will start a new generation with Scorpio, when they've been very clear about the fact that it's not a new generation at all. Also, it's very likely that Scorpio will also feature the old CPU architecture.
Depends on your budget. If you can afford it, get a Pro. It'll be noticeably better on your old TV, too.
in fact it's supposedly the end of generations!
EventHorizon
Member
Since when is chopping of the first two words of a sentence that directly contradict you, quoting fully? Admit it. You are wrong.
I'm talking about what the Pro is and I used Sony's own unveiling event to prove what I said was true. How can you possibly criticize using source material for reference? You on the other hand have just thrown out unsubstantiated attacks. You have yet to prove anything I said was wrong.
I just hope we won't be stuck in cross-gen hell with this iterative model
I like clear cut differences between generations and games that are tailored to take full advantage of the new hardware
shinobi602
Member
Since we're specifically talking about iterative consoles, I'll just focus on this point since the rest of your points weren't relevant (no offense). I don't see the basis in saying iterative consoles will be "necessary" to enjoy games later. What makes you say that exactly? Games are developed with the lowest common denominator first and specced higher accordingly from there for more powerful platforms. The Pro is not the lead console.
It's no different than multiplatform games now with PS4 and XBO to PC. Would you say most multiplats run and look shitty compared to their PC ports?
DarkJedi24
Member
Pretty much. Also people are way overthinking the situation. PS4 Pro is a more powerful box. Nothing more, nothing less.
I was in when it was still called Neo, but having a 4K TV made it obvious for me. Even so, Sony directly addressed how lower resolution displays could benefit from the increased power... and they are the same benefits that more power has provided since the beginning of time lol.
This will all be sorted once the thing is in the wild.
gundamkyoukai
Member
The only place the X1 is selling is where X1 sells to begin with .
A system that plays games better is a better selling point for the hardcore .
They will still be a PS5 is 3 years this just get Sony some extra money and gamers some extra for power.
Why would Sony only want to appeal to the hardcore of the hardcore gamers though? There are plenty of people out there with lots of disposable income who don't do their research. Like this co-worker of mine, he was telling me how he reserved a PSVR, so I starting talking to him about how the Pro was coming out next month, and he had no idea what the hell I was talking about.
Darkangel
Member
I guess time will tell how it all plays out. I'm getting some "third pillar" vibes when they talk about Scorpio fitting into the Xbox One family.
If Scorpio really takes off, and Sony releases the PS5 in a timely fashion, then it will basically have kickstarted the next generation even though it's still technically an Xbox One.
It would have been a laughing stock. PS5 with those innards? Naw
VincentMatts
Member
Although i agree with what youre saying, i think the difference here is that this isnt a new generation of console, its just a new model of this generation.
My fear actually is that they will do exactly the opposite of what youre saying and never take full advantage of the better hardware, which ultimately (to me) makes this a much less interesting purchase.
Had they allowed games on pro to be more than just better framerates and visuals, youd be right. But theyre not allowing that and thats just going to make most devs imo not want to put much more effort in the Pro/Scorpio versions of games since there isnt much more benefits to them other than better visuals and framerates.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Do you need a high end PC to get the best out of games ?
That is all PS4 pro is a stronger PS4 .
Yes it will have extra features and power but that is what happens when tech don't stand still for 6 years .
If PS5 comes out in 3 years Scorpio would have not had any effect on Sony plans .
Always-honest
Banned
Will Scorpio players play mp games against XboxOne owners? Or is this not covered yet?
Because if this is true, then they can't give Scorpio players an advantage, can they?
Just wondering how this will all work.