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[UncleSporky]

What are you on? The OP didn't say he was glad to die in 70 years because of this.

Nice try tho.

It's just funny when the arguments you keep making can all be easily pointed back at you. There are actual GOOD arguments to be made, don't resort to "why do you care about this when there are starving children" and "yeah it's nice to want things but you'll never get it/don't expect it."

 

[Captain Europe]

this.

not to bully, but pandering to a very explicit minority isn't exactly needed when the vast majority of people in the world identify as male or female.

i don't think having both genders on the same character model is at the top of nintendo/gamefreak's list of things to do to be perfectly frank.

No one said it's offensive tho?

 

[Venfayth]

this.

not to bully, but pandering to a very explicit minority isn't exactly needed when the vast majority of people in the world identify as male or female.

i don't think having both genders on the same character model is at the top of nintendo/gamefreak's list of things to do to be perfectly frank.

It's not really an offensive concept. It's just a bit outdated and nobody would complain (it might actually make some people happy) if they expanded the character creation, or hell, even just altered the character creation text a little bit to demonstrate awareness of modern social issues.

 

[Zolo]

Does that response actually surprise you? Plenty of people still see gender as binary. Maybe most people.

I might be wrong, but I do think the idea of gender being binary is still the most common one. Even people accepting of transgender individuals will have a lot of people seeing it strictly male identifying as female and female identifying as male.

 

[Camwi]

this thread is exactly why we should do that more often, tbh.

Seriously. The amount of nonsense in this thread shows that education on topics like gender is pretty important.

 

[PBY]

this.

not to bully, but pandering to a very explicit minority isn't exactly needed when the vast majority of people in the world identify as male or female.

i don't think having both genders on the same character model is at the top of nintendo/gamefreak's list of things to do to be perfectly frank.

It's not pandering though.

The reason we need these threads is for that very reason - without vocal discussion of these issues, why would a company address issues concerning a minority?

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Even if your one of the many idiots in this thread, how would having this option harm you?
Unless, you just don't have in form of empathy.

 

[Captain Europe]

It's just funny when the arguments you keep making can all be easily pointed back at you. There are actual GOOD arguments to be made, don't resort to "why do you care about this when there are starving children" and "yeah it's nice to want things but you'll never get it/don't expect it."

I never uttered those sentences, but sure, keep putting words in my mouth if it makes you feel any better.

 

[Horp]

No one said it's offensive tho?

I'm consistently struck by the stark differences bw Gaming and OT.

Yeah, it should be updated. Saving "no, it's for kids" is more offensive to me.

I think people might be referring to this post. It's for kids makes it _more_ offensive, so it was offensive to start with then, right.

 

[chillybright]

Simple solution: Type in all your information rather than select it.

Name: ______
Age: ______
Gender: ______
Favorite X: ______
Hobby: _______
Favorite Y: _______

This doesn't solve the pronoun issue.

Plenty of easy, practical solutions have been proposed, actually.

I have yet to see one. Most ignores the choice of pronouns .

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'm all about tolerance and acceptance but fuck.... Now we shouldnt even be okay with deciding if youre a boy or girl? That's a new fucking level of sensitivity in my book.

Talking about sensitivity while making a post demonstrating your sensitivity over this topic being brought up

 

[Kazooie]

Everyone who agrees with the OP has no job, you've figured it all out, now you can dismiss our opinions.

That's not what I said, I was asking that specific poster if he has a job. Judging by his non answer, he doesn't. And that really doesn't surprise me. 15 year olds talking about identifying as xer-billy-bookcase might be acceptable on Twitter or US college campuses (sadly) but in the rest of the world, and in the business world it's not acceptable.

 

[messiaen]

I know about gender identity, but my original point still stands. Generally, kids do not think about this (not teenagers mind you, actual pre-high school kids, aka the main demographic for Pokémon). I've yet to hear a single kid questioning his identity as a boy or a girl.

Pokémon originally came out in 1998. I was in fourth grade and a good friend of mine didn't feel like they were boy. They didn't identify and didn't understand why they were born as one.

Kids are not innocent, ignorant beings like we as adults think they are. It is for their benefit that we begin talking about these issues early in their lives so they can feel comfortable about who they are. Not only that, but also so we can raise tolerance toward these issues amongst the cisgendered kids. The earlier that children are made aware that these kinds of things are perfectly normal, the more tolerance and education we can have among them.

 

[PBY]

That's not what I said, I was asking that specific poster if he has a job. Judging by his non answer, he doesn't. And that really doesn't surprise me. 15 year olds talking about identifying as xer-billy-bookcase might be acceptable on Twitter or US college campuses (sadly) but in the rest of the world, and in the business world it's not acceptable.

Yikes

HR exists for reasons just like this.

 

[Falchion]

I just remember being confused why the guy you could pick in Ruby had white hair. It was so weird to me that I picked the girl.

 

[Lunarwhale]

this.

not to bully, but pandering to a very explicit minority isn't exactly needed when the vast majority of people in the world identify as male or female.

i don't think having both genders on the same character model is at the top of nintendo/gamefreak's list of things to do to be perfectly frank.

"Vast majority" is bunk - a lot of (major) cultures have the concept of multiple genders, and it's a growing issue all over the world.

Also the pronoun issue can be solved easily with "they" or by just writing around it if they don't want to implement a custom solution. How often is the player character referred to by pronouns anyways?

That's not what I said, I was asking that specific poster if he has a job. Judging by his non answer, he doesn't. And that really doesn't surprise me. 15 year olds talking about identifying as xer-billy-bookcase might be acceptable on Twitter or US college campuses (sadly) but in the rest of the world, and in the business world it's not acceptable.

cool post openly supporting discriminatory hiring practices

 

[oni-link]

That's not what I said, I was asking that specific poster if he has a job. Judging by his non answer, he doesn't. And that really doesn't surprise me. 15 year olds talking about identifying as xer-billy-bookcase might be acceptable on Twitter or US college campuses (sadly) but in the rest of the world, and in the business world it's not acceptable.

Thanks for informing me that the business world is firmly against gender identify

 

[purseowner]

That's not what I said, I was asking that specific poster if he has a job. Judging by his non answer, he doesn't. And that really doesn't surprise me. 15 year olds talking about identifying as xer-billy-bookcase might be acceptable on Twitter or US college campuses (sadly) but in the rest of the world, and in the business world it's not acceptable.

I'm male and far older than 15.

Your mocking of non-binary people is highly unpleasant and your distinction with 'the business world' is frankly bizarre.

 

[ModBot]

go on

 

[Venfayth]

That's not what I said, I was asking that specific poster if he has a job. Judging by his non answer, he doesn't. And that really doesn't surprise me. 15 year olds talking about identifying as xer-billy-bookcase might be acceptable on Twitter or US college campuses (sadly) but in the rest of the world, and in the business world it's not acceptable.

I know this dude got nuked, but I wanted to make this post anyway for anyone who might get the wrong impression about what "The Business World" is.

I worked in a Fortune 500 company where a team member went through SRS and we formally were all sat down by our manager and we had a discussion about which pronoun to use among other things. It was an awkward meeting but the vast majority of people were incredibly respectful and understanding.

It's not rocket science to be respectful and any company that deserves a modicum of respect understands that as well.

 

[Yoshi]

Simple solution: Type in all your information rather than select it.

Name: ______
Age: ______
Gender: ______
Favorite X: ______
Hobby: _______
Favorite Y: _______

What is the hobby important for in a Pokémon game? And if you can just type anything in for Gender, how is the person then addressed? Always by the name, never using pronouns? This would be particularly difficult for German, where word like Pokémon trainer are actually gendered and the "generic masculine" will probably not make people happy who care about gender related stuff.

 

[PandaShake]

It's a kids game with options children can understand. It's not outdated, you've outgrown it.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

No. It's not asking about your gender. It's your character. The devs have the right to have only 2 genders in their game.

 

[Onaco]

Wait until you find out there mainly male and female Pokémon, and they're labeled. You can't change their gender. The horror.

 

[A Link to the Past]

No. It's not asking about your gender. It's your character. The devs have the right to have only 2 genders in their game.

To clarify, who are you talking to when you imply that someone is trying to force Nintendo to change the game?

 

[Wishmaster92]

I never uttered those sentences, but sure, keep putting words in my mouth if it makes you feel any better.

I think he's talking about these

This is what makes you say that, not all the horror that's going on in the world like hunger?

Get some perspective in life dude.

It's nice to want things, like every one else on this planet.

Anyways this thread is getting dangerous seeing as it was locked to snipe out people. and i think it's time to bail as there is no right or wrong answer, just a lot of posts that have their meaning twisted. Be careful what you post people.

 

[nickgia]

No.

 

[Bio]

Can't we just agree that it's preferred to be a little more modern about this?

No one here is directly offended and that's not the point either.

It's okay to love something and also admit that a minor point of it is a bit outdated nowadays.

I don't think it can be considered outdated when 99.9% of people would just look at that choice and then pick "boy" or "girl" without a second thought, tbh

 

[Glass Shark]

It's a bad way to phrase the question, that's for sure. Regardless of whether I as a player am a man or woman, why should that determine the gender of the character I play as?

 

[Zolo]

It's a bad way to phrase the question, that's for sure. Regardless of whether I as a player am a man or woman, why should that determine the gender of the character I play as?

Instead of pretending, it's just flat-out saying it's self-insertion.

 

[EdwardTeach]

It's not really an offensive concept. It's just a bit outdated and nobody would complain (it might actually make some people happy) if they expanded the character creation, or hell, even just altered the character creation text a little bit to demonstrate awareness of modern social issues.

I think a lot of people would complain. Parents for example might not be pleased if there was a third choice.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

already ITT: cis people get all uneasy about being reminded gender isn't a binary, trivialize non-binary people for wanting acknowledgement and validation

Isn't it ironic that these so called tolerant and progressive people are just so fucking offended that others feel their corprate product should be opened up to more consumors. Now people might feel more included? Oh the horror!

Saint's Row 2 had a gender slider which was pretty progressive in my opinion.

And yeah TPC and much of the industry will probably be behind on stuff like this for 10 to 15 years. Sorry OP. Hopefully more diverse indie games will come out.

 

[PBY]

I think a lot of people would complain. Parents for example might not be pleased if there was a third choice.

Yeah, see thats offensive, ie pandering to intolerance.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

If it makes you feel better OP, Sun & Moon's character selection doesn't seem to explicitly ask you your gender, it just puts 8 different base designs on a palette and asks you to choose.

 

[CharminUltra]

I don't know if it's outdated or not, but I wouldn't complain if it went away, or if it got replaced by a character editor that skipped the question altogether.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

To clarify, who are you talking to when you imply that someone is trying to force Nintendo to change the game?

Whoever wants them to change it.

 

[woodland]

I don't believe this is an issue. It's Pokémon.

.

 

[Sou Da]

iirc they don't actually ask you this anymore, Kukui asks how do you look and the portraits for both characters come up in different skin tones.

Then you pick one.

 

[Diprosalic]

I just remember being confused why the guy you could pick in Ruby had white hair. It was so weird to me that I picked the girl.

I assume you found out that it was a hat right?

 

[Peltz]

I've never thought of this before, but OP is right. It would be better if it simply asked you to choose an avatar.

I don't really think this type of thing is on everyone's radar though. To the average person, this seems like a harmless question. But I could see this being a bit of a painful point for certain people, children especially, that are more gender fluid (p.s. is that a politically correct phrase? Sorry in advance if there is a better way of saying it).

 

[Zolo]

iirc they don't actually ask you this anymore, Kukui asks how do you look and the portraits for both characters come up in different skin tones.

Then you pick one.

I haven't played a pokemon game for a bit, so this would be a good thing to confirm. It kinda already answers the OP's question.

Is this something that is forever going to be a tradition of the Pokémon mainline games and remakes? I mean it doesn't have to be worded the way it is , Pokémon Go at least tried to do something about it.

 

[PBY]

I've never thought of this before, but OP is onto something. It would be better if it simply asked you to choose an avatar.

Really think this was all OP meant by this thread - just raised a question as to how to make something better that - in a very small way - would help move the industry forward and be a great thing for kids. No one is attacking Nintendo or is specifically offended by this.

 

[Anth0ny]

What would the solution be? "Choose your style" or "Choose your Avatar? maybe?

 

[CharminUltra]

I've never thought of this before, but OP is onto something. It would be better if it simply asked you to choose an avatar.

Yup. Seems like an elegant solution to me. Let the player decide how their avatar looks like. Boom.

 

[Camwi]

I think a lot of people would complain. Parents for example might not be pleased if there was a third choice.

There are parents out there who are not pleased that evolution is taught in schools. One shouldn't cater to those who choose to remain ignorant.

 

[Kazuhira]

Add more pokemon genders while you're at it.

 

[tirkaroKujo]

I mean, the shitty strawman HAHA I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS LOOK HOW SILLY I AM block of text kind of has a point. It wouldn't really take that much more effort than any other feature to have some more options for further diversity in how the player character can be represented. I could understand it in the earlier sprite games due to technical limitations or what have you, but I found it really silly that you couldn't even change skin color in ORAS despite XY having that feature, and it made my decision to skip that game all the more easier.

But hey, I guess the fact that I want my character to have my own skin tone means that I'm screaming to high heavens and calling the developers out as bigots, as opposed to all the other nitpicks I could be making, like how Wally's Gallade doesn't come out of the correct ball or something.

 

[Servbot24]

What would the solution be? "Choose your style" or "Choose your Avatar? maybe?

"Choose a character"

The available characters are boys and girls. That's really all it takes to avoid directly confronting the player with "You there, playing this game! You are either a boy or a girl!"

Even better than that would be to include a 3rd non-descript character in addition to the boy and girl.

 

[Crocodile]

Man this thread has been weirdly aggressive? A lot of really dickish posts in here. I honestly don't get it and I'm a kind of saddened by it

As for the question posed by the OP, is the issue resolved by just by rewording the question? If they said "Which more accurately describes you" rather than "are you a boy or a girl?" would that be better? Someone said Pokemon Go asks you "which style do you prefer?". If that is what is being asked for I have a hard time seeing why anyone would object to that or why this thread would blow up. I could get behind that.

With regard to character creation, I admit I don't play too many games where there is a character creator but all the ones I've played give you a male or female option and then let you go to town with the customization. A few have mentioned I think a few games with a "gender slider" but what exactly is that and how does that differ from something that lets you adjust body type?

With regards to Pokemon itself, I think it likely works to Nintendo's advantage to have "default" characters that you can edit in game than have a full blown character creation system for the sake of marketing. Similar to say how Mass Effect did things. If there is no default character, you can't use them in ads or promotional videos. More than once (see Pokemon Generations as a recent example) the "default" characters from a generation has been used in an anime - that would be lost if there were no default characters. A distinct male and a distinct female character default character seem like they would appeal to more people overall (to both cisgender and transgender players) than one or two androgynous, gender-ambiguous characters. The issue of prononuns has also been touched upon before and would likely be a headache for multiple languages.

The character edit options in Sun/Moon seem light years ahead of X/Y so I think/hope they will cover 99% of bases (I guess we still have to see how clothing works out though).

There's nothing male about a penis and nothing female about a vagina. Those are gendered terms, totally made up, irrelevant, and out of date. Our society is slowly seeing that, at least in the US.

Ok this post confuses me but maybe male and female are being used in different ways that typical (as a reference to ones sex rather than ones gender) in this post?

 

[Xaeroxcore666]

It should include one predefined character and no more. Just to end this kind of idiotic discussions. I´ts a videogame in which the point is catch all the pokemons, not real life.