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[XenIneX]

She owns her image as much as anybody else. Were there unfair criticisms. Yes.

Did she also have thirty years of politically expedient flip flops and lies that were clearly designed to build some sort of false personal narrative? Yes

Did she have the charisma of the tin man? Yes

Was she Often detached and smug in public? Yes.

You say "flip flops"; I say "changed her mind with the passage of time" or "had no strong opinion on certain subjects and was willing to bow to the will of the electorate". I call that a good thing. She was never a hard-line ideologue.

"Charisma" / "Detached": We never saw Hillary being Hillary... because that lesson was beaten into her long before Bill ever made his shot at the Oval Office. "Hillary Rodham" as a genuine public persona died an ignoble death at the hands of southern "gentility".

"Smug": ...What? The most I ever saw out of her was over-rehearsed, over-controlled, affected confidence. "Smug" was the smarmy used-car salesman she lost to.

Even if we say for the sake of argument that everything was unjustified, why would you ever want to nominate someone with such a persistent image issue?

"I" wouldn't. I am an Independent. I knew going in that a Hillary presidency would be ineffectual at best, thanks to hardliner GOP horseshit. However, I didn't get a vote before D-day.

Instead, my only would-have-been primary option decided to attempt to usurp the Democratic party's base and apparatus without actually joining said party. Then, when said party didn't offer him a reach-around, he and his new-found disciples threw a fit, damaging the party and contributing the next four years' shitshow. But I'm not bitter, or anything...

 

[StormKing]

Hilary Clinton voted for the Iraq War. That alone should have disqualified her.

 

[hoos30]

Typical fingerpointing. Everybody knows the answers after the exam is over. So far, I've only seen Michael Moore who predicted the outcome in the Rust Belt accurately.

All of these campaign sheep can STFU.

 

[Mortemis]

Man, if this is true what in the actual fuck. Incompetence gave us an orange fuck for president for the next 4 to 8 years, thanks?

 

[cheezcake]

Oh hey, the Clinton team is blaming everyone but themselves: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215


Much more at the link.

Of course they are they're trying to save their future in politics, hopefully no one's dumb enough to buy into this shit though.

 

[chrisPjelly]

So you basically relied on "My opponent is a liar and should not be trusted!" instead of rallying in areas you were lacking. Wooooow

 

[Ether_Snake]

Needed more money.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Oh hey, the Clinton team is blaming everyone but themselves: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215


Much more at the link.

Fuck.
Them.

We should make a new thread. These fuckers deserve to be pushed out of politics forever.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Oh hey, the Clinton team is blaming everyone but themselves: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215


Much more at the link.

DNC better boot these cunts or its gonna be Trump 2016-2024, then Ivanka Trump Life President.

 

[Illucio]

Hilary Clinton voted for the Iraq War. That alone should have disqualified her.

Trump was pro Iraq War until around 2003 changing his mind after the fact.

Hillary voted for the Iraq War as well but now admits it was probably the biggest mistake in her life.

This accurately describes the situation where our nation was incredibly eager to go to war and find justice because of 9/11. You need to remember we were in a state of panic and did a lot of stupid things like the Patriot Act.

 

[Big Green Anus]

Yeah but the scarier thing in that article is if Trump is able to realign the Republican Party to a worker/labor party. If he is able to do that, then the Democratic Party is fucked. Well it's already fucked, but it'll be damn near dead. Social issues alone won't get anyone elected at this point.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...m-saw-a-different-america-and-they-were-right

That's only if Trump and the current Republicans are smart enough to do that. I can see Trump attempting to do it, but not the current Republican party.

That being said, if it does happen, I REALLY hope Democrats has another Obama like figure in terms of charisma since it's going to be difficult battle against that new collation of the Republican party.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

I think this is the telling image. The voters clearly indicated they would prefer the status quo or someone more conservative.

Most people would. Have to convince otherwise but I doubt that will happen.

 

[old manatee]

Trump was pro Iraq War until around 2003 changing his mind after the fact.

Hillary voted for the Iraq War as well but now admits it was probably the biggest mistake in her life.

This accurately describes the situation where our nation was incredibly eager to go to war and find justice because of 9/11. You need to remember we were in a state of panic and did a lot of stupid things like the Patriot Act.

https://youtu.be/NdFw1btbkLM

 

[StormKing]

Trump was pro Iraq War until around 2003 changing his mind after the fact.

Hillary voted for the Iraq War as well but now admits it was probably the biggest mistake in her life.

This accurately describes the situation where our nation was incredibly eager to go to war and find justice because of 9/11. You need to remember we were in a state of panic and did a lot of stupid things like the Patriot Act.

Trump doesn't have a voting record like Hilary does.

The American people trusted Senator Clinton to make the right decision and she failed us. She did not have the courage or moral fortitude to do what was right when it mattered most.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Oh hey, the Clinton team is blaming everyone but themselves: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215


Much more at the link.

Exile all of them from the DNC. Bill seems to be ok because he also said don't ignore the rust belt. But everyone associated with Clinton at the inner circle level has to go. No excuses. Do it now.

 

[demon]

Exile all of them from the DNC. Bill seems to be ok because he also said don't ignore the rust belt. But everyone associated with Clinton at the inner circle level has to go. No excuses. Do it now.

There is no place for her in the party anymore. She's a fucking loser who will be seen as the center of what is the worst disaster for the party in a very long time. I agree, she and everyone associated with her need to get the fucking boot. The Democratic party needs to get its finger back on the pulse of the nation.

 

[Linkura]

There is no place for her in the party anymore. She's a fucking loser who will be seen as the center of what is the worst disaster for the party in a very long time. I agree, she and everyone associated with her need to get the fucking boot. The Democratic party needs to get its finger back on the pulse of the nation.

She is the Martha Coakley of America. The DNC needs an Elizabeth Warren to win next time. Perhaps not LITERALLY Elizabeth Warren, but they need someone with her energy.

 

[Byakuya769]

Bleh. A bunch of people who didn't think Trump could win the primaries and didn't think he had a chance in the election are now angry and looking for someone to blame.
The Clinton campaign likely made grievous mistakes, but I'd rather give the moment time to breath and really analyze what happened instead of these knee jerk reactions, hot takes and blame shifting.

"Victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan."

 

[victreeb3l]

I hope the Dems remember this kinda hubris for the rest of their fucking lives.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

Her campaign was a dumpster fire.

 

[ahoyhoy]

https://youtu.be/NdFw1btbkLM

Best girl

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It really is pretty amazing when you think about it. A candidate that demanded she fly home to her New York mansion every night to sleep in her own bed. You couldn't write a more anti-populist candidate than that.

It didn't hurt Trump, somehow.

 

[hoos30]

Bleh. A bunch of people who didn't think Trump could win the primaries and didn't think he had a chance in the election are now angry and looking for someone to blame.
The Clinton campaign likely made grievous mistakes, but I'd rather give the moment time to breath and really analyze what happened instead of these knee jerk reactions, hot takes and blame shifting.

"Victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan."

This. A 200,000 vote swing in the right places and none of these mistakes are ever known. Analyze the real problem; tactics isn't the problem.

 

[demon]

Bleh. A bunch of people who didn't think Trump could win the primaries and didn't think he had a chance in the election are now angry and looking for someone to blame.
The Clinton campaign likely made grievous mistakes, but I'd rather give the moment time to breath and really analyze what happened instead of these knee jerk reactions, hot takes and blame shifting.

"Victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan."

Just looking at the voting numbers you can see that the problem wasn't how many people voted for Trump but how few people voted for Hillary. She was the problem, we're seeing now where she screwed and what ultimately did her in, and there were many people screaming about these problems from the rooftops well before the general election. The party obviously needs to take some time to collect itself and figure out its next plan of attack, but there are some now painfully obvious things that need to be done.

 

[Speely]

I think it's fairly safe to say that at least some part of the Democrats' loss here is attributable to either an inability or unwillingness to genuinely look at and consider some key issues and regions among voters that were likely very relevant to this election cycle, and by extension, the state of our country as a whole. They seemed more concerned with hitting the bulletpoints of their models.

To risk being flippant about it: It's like the Hillary camp constructed a model of the US that only exists in their data and treated it like the real thing. The map is not the territory, yada yada yada. This is what happens when you grow too big to be connected to the constituents you seek. This will affect how those people view your platform and party.

That, combined with a disturbingly-healthy dose of racist Americans, was a death knell, in my opinion. And now we are all fucked.

 

[demon]

I think it's fairly safe to say that at least some part of the Democrats' loss here is attributable to either an inability or unwillingness to genuinely look at and consider some key issues and regions among voters that were likely very relevant to this election cycle, and by extension, the state of our country as a whole. They seemed more concerned with hitting the bulletpoints of their models.

To risk being flippant about it: It's like the Hillary camp constructed a model of the US that only exists in their data and treated it like the real thing. The map is not the territory, yada yada yada. This is what happens when you grow too big to be connected to the constituents you seek. This will affect how those people view your platform and party.

That, combined with a disturbingly-healthy dose of racist Americans, was a death knell, in my opinion. And now we are all fucked.

Referring to an important constituency that was largely responsible for her losing as a bunch of "deplorables" certainly didn't help. That showed an astounding lack of discipline and being out of touch.

 

[Cromat]

Thing is while it sounds kinda cheesy, Trump was a man who seemed to have defied all odds and was capable of making the impossible possible. He was supposed to be out so many times but only seemed to come back stronger. They should not have underestimated him.

Agreed about Trump beating expectations, but the basic argument went like this:

1. Obama beat Romney pretty comfortably, and no one who voted for Obama would vote for Trump (GUESS WHAT)
2. The electorate is more diverse than ever
3. Trump only appeals to white people and they would never swing his way enough to offset minorities and women (Wrong!)
4. She has a massive lead among women that was solidified after PussyGate
5. All the polls say that she is winning
6. She has numerous paths to 270 and a firewall that approaches 270 on its own (Sad!)
7. She is massively outspending him
8. She has a massively more sophisticated ground game


This set of supposed facts was enough to convince rational people that this is a done deal. Everyone thought he would lose. The whole narrative was wrong and filled with wishful thinking, cherry-picking, confirmation bias and a healthy dose of condescension. It is a catastrophic failure of our media and the pollsters. To an extent, Hillary and her campaign were also victims of this massive misinformation - they had every reason to think they were doing a fairly good job. She won the debates (according to the polls). The polls reacted to her debate performance and to Trump's bigger scandals (pussy, Khan family). They invested time and effort in states that deemed competitive. They were advised by the polls to take risks on places like Arizona and Georgia (good luck with that). They were acting on shitty data and false premises.

There was a huge disconnect between the state of the race as portrayed in the media and by so-called data journalists and what was actually happening. Ohio was never a swing state - Trump took it easily. The entire North was not remotely safe. It was a firewall in the sense that it burnt Clinton's chances of ever becoming president. Women did not respond to Trump's numerous scandals as depicted in the polls. Minorities voted for him in greater numbers than Romney! The debates mattered little, or the polls showing voters' response to them were bogus.

You can't make good decisions based on bad data. If the Democrats were aware of the actual state of the race, which states were actually competitive and what issues really resonate with voters then they could have adjusted. I'm not sure it would have been enough to put Hillary in the White House but it would have been better than what happened. They went in blind. The media, the analysts, the pollsters, the markets - they were all fooled. I tip my hat to people like Michael Moore who predicted this outcome and how it would come about. They saw through what was clearly a fog of bullshit.

 

[KingV]

You say "flip flops"; I say "changed her mind with the passage of time" or "had no strong opinion on certain subjects and was willing to bow to the will of the electorate". I call that a good thing. She was never a hard-line ideologue.

"Charisma" / "Detached": We never saw Hillary being Hillary... because that lesson was beaten into her long before Bill ever made his shot at the Oval Office. "Hillary Rodham" as a genuine public persona died an ignoble death at the hands of southern "gentility".

"Smug": ...What? The most I ever saw out of her was over-rehearsed, over-controlled, affected confidence. "Smug" was the smarmy used-car salesman she lost to...

1) even Warren was insinuating her ass was a misleading flip flopper a few years ago. Saying she changed her vote on a payday loan bill because of lobbyists.

And she lied about dumb shit, like Sniper fire and the origin of her name. All of that adds up to somebody untrustworthy. Who lies about their name? Its like the kid that says his uncle works for Nintendo or he has an Ultra 64 in his basement but you can't play it Or see it because it's packed up. Everything she says is suspect because of those high profile lies, and criticism for flip flops that came from the left.

Hell, she admits that she lies in her Goldman speeches. "Public and private positions" reads a lot like "sometimes you say you are going to do something that you have no intention of actually doing", probably all politicians do this but she sucks bad at it. Terrible salesman.

2) I don't care why she doesn't have charisma. I just care that she doesn't have it.

3) we're in a thread taking about how smug her campaign was that is literally littered with examples of smugness. You should consider reading the op and some of the posts.

I just looked this up in the dictionary:
having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements

Tge example sentence was "smug-ass Hillary bought fireworks and glass shaped confetti and didn't write a concession speech because she was so sure she was going to win."

 

[Azih]

It didn't hurt Trump, somehow.

Trump was a maniac in terms of holding events and speeches despite going back and forth.

 

[cheezcake]

This. A 200,000 vote swing in the right places and none of these mistakes are ever known. Analyze the real problem; tactics isn't the problem.

You mean a 200,000 vote swing in those key states in which the Clinton campaign decided to not visit or completely neglect anything outside of urban areas? Sounds like a tactics issue to me.

 

[UraMallas]

Thing is while it sounds kinda cheesy, Trump was a man who seemed to have defied all odds and was capable of making the impossible possible. He was supposed to be out so many times but only seemed to come back stronger. They should not have underestimated him.

And now he made it. Think about what his base must think of him right now - how fervent they must be.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Wow.

So many of you are getting so angry towards Clinton right now.

The complete turnaround for the mood towards her in here is quite something to behold.

 

[Odrion]

It didn't hurt Trump, somehow.

anti-establishment messaging

 

[Averon]

Tge example sentence was "smug-ass Hillary bought fireworks and glass shaped confetti and didn't write a concession speech because she was so sure she was going to win."

Romney did the exact fucking thing in 2012. That is, not having a concession speech ready.

The more I think about it, the more Hilary and her campaign reminds me of Romney and his campaign and all his flaws as a politician.

The arrogance that they were so sure they'd win
The tone-deafness of the campaign to middle class needs
The "hot mic" moment (47%ers for Romney and deplorables for Clinton)

 

[Timeaisis]

They were smug. Thought they had it. This is what happens.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Wow.

So many of you are getting so angry towards Clinton right now.

The complete turnaround for the mood towards her in here is quite something to behold.

What you're seeing now are all the people who were either ambivalent about or against Clinton who GAF sort of chased off in the last 6 months coming out.

 

[demon]

Wow.

So many of you are getting so angry towards Clinton right now.

The complete turnaround for the mood towards her in here is quite something to behold.

Welcome to outside of the Hilldawg-gaf bubble. These sentiments have always been around but here they were totally shut out by loud, smug "how dare thou" Hillary supporters. And of course that dislike of her will transform into anger after she loses the fucking election.

And might I add, Hillary herself did nothing AFAIK to reign in that kind of behavior. Happily standing next to Madeleine Albright as she tells the women of America there's a special place in hell for them if they don't vote for Hillary because she shares the same genitalia is the wrong way to try to win support. Talk about a smug sense of entitlement.

 

[numble]

anti-establishment messaging

He still campaigned like crazy. Maybe because he could choose to fly back to either his home in Florida or New York:

You can't take that away from him. Just look at the difference. I just compared the number of listings per day according travel calendar provided a page or two back.

September:
Clinton: 0 events for 7 days, 1 event for 13 days, 2 events for 9 days, 3 events for 1 day
Trump: 0 events for 2 days, 1 event for 9 days, 2 events for 10 days, 3 events for 9 days

October:
Clinton: No info for 2 days, 0 events for 5 days, 1 event for 9 days, 2 events for 11 days, 3 events for 4 days
Trump: 0 events for 1 day, 1 event for 8 days, 2 events for 7 days, 3 events for 14 days

November:
Clinton: 0 events for 0 days, 1 event for 0 days, 2 events for 3 days, 3 events for 3 days, 4 events for 1 day
Trump: 0 events for 0 days, 1 event for 0 days, 2 events for 1 day, 3 events for 3 days, 4 events 1 day, 5 events for 2 days

 

[Carnby]

Tge example sentence was "smug-ass Hillary bought fireworks and glass shaped confetti and didn't write a concession speech because she was so sure she was going to win."

Holy fuck. Did she really do all of that? If so, she is a smug fucking piece of shit.

 

[Henchmen21]

There was a super PAC that spent 1 million dollars astroturfing social media with pro-Clinton posts.

They seemed pretty enthusiastic at least.

6mil. It got more after the primary. DNC also funneled money from down ballot dems back into her campaign.

You kidding? Yas Queen Slay just lost you guys the Supreme court FOR ANOTHER GENERATION!

Greatest fucking irony is the constant "You have to vote for Hillary! The SC is at stake!" for months from Hillary supporters. Thanks a fucking lot.

 

[KingV]

Holy fuck. Did she really do all of that? If so, she is a smug fucking piece of shit.

Yes, she rented a building with a glass ceiling and was going to release the confetti to signify her breaking the glass ceiling.

 

[Yoda]

Talk about hubris...

 

[Averon]

Wow.

So many of you are getting so angry towards Clinton right now.

The complete turnaround for the mood towards her in here is quite something to behold.

The "Yasss Queennn!!!!" PoliGAF bubble that dominated discussion here was popped. People can finally discuss Clinton in an honest and open manner without diehards stifling debate and discussion. And given the results Tuesday, the implications those bring, and the arrogance of the Hilary and her campaign, there's a lot of well deserves anger aimed at her.

 

[Carnby]

Yes, she rented a building with a glass ceiling and was going to release the confetti to signify her breaking the glass ceiling.

But did she really not write a concession speech?

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Wow.

So many of you are getting so angry towards Clinton right now.

The complete turnaround for the mood towards her in here is quite something to behold.

I'm fucking pissed because I towed the line like good little solider I am, because I give a shit about people that have been shat on in this country for fucking years, and now the whole country is fucked because of the fucking arrogance and incompetency of this campaign. All of it blew up in our faces and now we suffer.

That may sound like wounded pride from me, but I don't give a fuck about me.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

As a Michigander, the presence of democratic presence had been abysmal. I was counting the amount of Trump signs in yards to Clinton and it had to be something like dozens-to-one. I just figured it was Trump supporters were louder and wanting to advertise their ignorance. But then there was a lack of campaigning that sort of cemented the vote for this state. It's a painful lesson that we're all going to pay for (hell, maybe the entire globe), but at least the democratic party knows to pay more attention here in the midwest?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

But did she really not write a concession speech?

I think that's just his assumption because she didn't give her concession until the morning

 

[Splash Wave]

Welcome to outside of the Hilldawg-gaf bubble. These sentiments have always been around but here they were totally shut out by loud, smug "how dare thou" Hillary supporters. And of course that dislike of her will transform into anger after she loses the fucking election.

And might I add, Hillary herself did nothing AFAIK to reign in that kind of behavior. Happily standing next to Madeleine Albright as she tells the women of America there's a special place in hell for them if they don't vote for Hillary because she shares the same genitalia is the wrong way to try to win support. Talk about a smug sense of entitlement.

It's incredibly encouraging that these conversations can now actually happen on GAF. The democratic primary and the run up to the general election were completely insufferable.

 

[Goodstyle]

Hilary Clinton voted for the Iraq War. That alone should have disqualified her.

I bet you would not be saying this about Joe Biden.

 

[Flying Toaster]

It's incredibly encouraging that these conversations can now actually happen on GAF. The democratic primary and the run up to the general election were completely insufferable.

They were horrid. After I voted in the primary in my state I decided to avoid the political discussions on GAF because it was madness.