Clinton campaign didn't do tracking polls for the last month, ignored Michigan issues

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What you guys might not realize, is that those two things are closer than you think. A lot of people dismiss Trump's verbal discharges as dumb or insignificant. Some of it is. But a lot of it is calculated and crafted with the goal of eliciting an emotional response. Reputation and simplicity sticks in your brain. Make America Great Again. You can't forget it. It doesn't even fucking mean anything but that's not the point. You're getting drunk on member berries. It's substance and bullshit at the same time and that's why 60 million people voted for him.







Bannings had legit reasons like "derailment" or whatever, but from my observation, they were handed out unevenly to Bernie supporters. It does not help to keep one's composure if you're also being dog piled with accusations of sexism and racism left and right. It's the same problem that was discussed in the "den of cunts" thread the other year. This forum has always had an issue with it. It also didn't help that Clinton's superPAC paid people to "correct" I. E. disparage Bernie supporters online. I wouldn't be surprised if they were working on gaf too.

I normally don't believe in Astroturf conspiracy statements like this, but considering that apparently during the Xbox One reveal a lot of junior accounts here defending MS traced back to Microsoft headquarters, and considering that some of the most ardent Hillary supporters (and I WAS one of them, never once supported Bernie) are MIA right now.

I don't know. I just don't know.
 
I normally don't believe in Astroturf conspiracy statements like this, but considering that apparently during the Xbox One reveal a lot of junior accounts here defending MS traced back to Microsoft headquarters, and considering that some of the most ardent Hillary supporters (and I WAS one of them, never once supported Bernie) are MIA right now.

I don't know. I just don't know.

Some of the most ardent hillary supporters have not posted on the forum, *at all*, after 11/8
 
I normally don't believe in Astroturf conspiracy statements like this, but considering that apparently during the Xbox One reveal a lot of junior accounts here defending MS traced back to Microsoft headquarters, and considering that some of the most ardent Hillary supporters (and I WAS one of them, never once supported Bernie) are MIA right now.

I don't know. I just don't know.
I don't know either, and I want to reiterate that this is pure speculation. But Correct the Record did exist. They were pretty active on Reddit. I dunno about gaf, but I have no idea why it was so high in the rankings for redirects to Clinton's homepage. Probably a coincidence. Hillary supporters MIA can be explained by disillusionment and sadness. Another coincidence. It would take too much time and effort for a proper data analysis to find any concrete evidence, so that's why it's just speculation.
 
What you guys might not realize, is that those two things are closer than you think. A lot of people dismiss Trump's verbal discharges as dumb or insignificant. Some of it is. But a lot of it is calculated and crafted with the goal of eliciting an emotional response. Reputation and simplicity sticks in your brain. Make America Great Again. You can't forget it. It doesn't even fucking mean anything but that's not the point. You're getting drunk on member berries. It's substance and bullshit at the same time and that's why 60 million people voted for him.
Make America Great Again is not gibberish nonsense. It's an appeal to nostalgia. To simpler times when one was prosperous and the world seemed perfect. It's a genius slogan.
 
I normally don't believe in Astroturf conspiracy statements like this, but considering that apparently during the Xbox One reveal a lot of junior accounts here defending MS traced back to Microsoft headquarters, and considering that some of the most ardent Hillary supporters (and I WAS one of them, never once supported Bernie) are MIA right now.

I don't know. I just don't know.

Some of the most ardent hillary supporters have not posted on the forum, *at all*, after 11/8

I've noticed the absence too, but I've been distraught enough as a straight white etc. male who's been reliably skeptical of Hillary. For some people with tighter connections to the stakes, the candidate, and participation, I think it makes sense to take a break.
 
Not suprising since we had mods with Hillary as avatars. Everytime I thought about posting something about Bernie or was critical of Hillary I held back.




Doesn't make a damn but of difference to the election. In the end, it was her campaign and strategy that cost her the presidency and us our safety. Not a bunch of posters talking politics on a video game forum. God dammit.

I remember Evilore saying how he initially hesitated to make moderators names red as it would privilege their voice in discussion. I think he was right the first time.
 
I remember Evilore saying how he initially hesitated to make moderators names red as it would privilege their voice in discussion. I think he was right the first time.
I think Reddit actually has a good system for this -- moderators appear as normal posters,unless they are speaking as a moderator, in which case their names are highlighted as green.
 
I remember Evilore saying how he initially hesitated to make moderators names red as it would privilege their voice in discussion. I think he was right the first time.
I'm not sure about making their names the same as ours. There is some utility in knowing who they are. But there is an unfortunate appeal to authority that happens when a moderator says something a poster agrees with*. It's a habit we should probably just be more aware of.

*I know I'm quite guilty of that myself, I know for example that I've extensively quoted Stump's takedowns of spoilerphobia.
I think Reddit actually has a good system for this -- moderators appear as normal posters,unless they are speaking as a moderator, in which case their names are highlighted as green.
True, I do like that.
 
Well Hillary supporters that crossed the line got banned too. Just look at Amirox, for instance.

Damn I wonder what happened to him post Trump win... The amount of anger and confrontational energy he displayed was incredible. Can't even begin to imagine what he feels right now... That ban is a blessing, I suppose.
 
Obama's campaign, from what I've read, was run like a goddamn well-oiled engine.

How could this happen?
I guess in some ways it is probably unfair to keep comparing this campaign to Obama's since his seems almost unprecedented in what it did and the results it churned.

But it does seem like her campaign should have been taking notes and advice from them at the least. They certainly had the money to do things right.
 
It also didn't help that Clinton's superPAC paid people to "correct" I. E. disparage Bernie supporters online. I wouldn't be surprised if they were working on gaf too.

Not all that long ago there was a thread about how, by some metric that I cannot recall, neogaf was among the top 5 most pro-Hillary websites on the internet. Really bizarre, but when I think about it not all that surprising considering how insanely unrepresentative this forum was of Hillary support I encountered anywhere else. Anywhere.
 
Obama's campaign, from what I've read, was run like a goddamn well-oiled engine.

How could this happen?

Obama never once got arrogant and assumed any state save maybe California and New York were a freebie.. He ALWAYS knew he was fighting an uphill battle in 08. For 12, he slacked off and was hounded by Romney in the first debate (whether or not you think Romney won, Obama was mad at himself for not taking it seriously, according to the Authors of Game Change: Double Down). For the rest of the campaign he never once slacked off and, well...doubled down (in the book an aid said near the end he was only getting 3 hours of sleep per night, and no, he never insisted on flying home to sleep).
 
Make America Great Again is not gibberish nonsense. It's an appeal to nostalgia. To simpler times when one was prosperous and the world seemed perfect. It's a genius slogan.

Out of curiosity, when was America great? Because it seems like roughly every chapter in America's history book (and most countries for that matter) have some dark pages.
 
Out of curiosity, when was America great? Because it seems like roughly every chapter in America's history book (and most countries for that matter) have some dark pages.
That's why I said it doesn't mean anything. Look up Penn and Teller's Bullshit episode about the good old days to know more.
 
Out of curiosity, when was America great? Because it seems like roughly every chapter in America's history book (and most countries for that matter) have some dark pages.

MAGA resonates with the people who used to have jobs that didn't get priced out of the country. when middle/rural america wasn't as poor, and small businesses had a larger slice of the pie. when economic growth (or in this case, recovery) wasn't just taking place in cities. when wealth was more evenly spread between rich & poor.

so, a really really long time ago
 
Adam asked for a self-ban, and many are simply crafting the next sober, high-minded strategy for the next wave of democratic wonks

A self ban? That's seriously sign of a bad loser, the type who would turn the console off when you were at the finish line 0.5 seconds in front of him....

Is it true that she never had a concession speech as she thought she was so sure to win?
 
A self ban? That's seriously sign of a bad loser, the type who would turn the console off when you were at the finish line 0.5 seconds in front of him....

Is it true that she never had a concession speech as she thought she was so sure to win?
Well, she left without a word at night. She has a good one the next day, but it really didn't seem she was prepared at all.
 
Out of curiosity, when was America great? Because it seems like roughly every chapter in America's history book (and most countries for that matter) have some dark pages.
It's not a matter of when. It's a matter of where. And the answer is in people's memories.

Again, elections are not just about simple truth. Messaging is the name of the game. Yes, if you look at crime statistics or economic markers, in many ways, we may be much, much better off on average than we were ten, twenty or fifty years ago. But if someone feels less safe or less prosperous, perhaps even genuinely because they exist in a outlier industry or city, you still need to find a way to talk to them.

Perception is people's realities.
 
A self ban? That's seriously sign of a bad loser, the type who would turn the console off when you were at the finish line 0.5 seconds in front of him....

Is it true that she never had a concession speech as she thought she was so sure to win?
Dunno. If I had the guess she was probably too sad or had too much to drink. Holding onto that less than 5% chance of pulling it off.
 
Make America Great Again is not gibberish nonsense. It's an appeal to nostalgia. To simpler times when one was prosperous and the world seemed perfect. It's a genius slogan.

It's a great slogan. It's loaded in saying America is no longer great but also sets out a positive message of turning that around.
 
Obama never once got arrogant and assumed any state save maybe California and New York were a freebie.. He ALWAYS knew he was fighting an uphill battle in 08. For 12, he slacked off and was hounded by Romney in the first debate (whether or not you think Romney won, Obama was mad at himself for not taking it seriously, according to the Authors of Game Change: Double Down). For the rest of the campaign he never once slacked off and, well...doubled down (in the book an aid said near the end he was only getting 3 hours of sleep per night, and no, he never insisted on flying home to sleep).
How I admire his work ethics and character. I guess being a member of a minority really helps him to get a good dose of reality check. Minorities never take things for granted.
 
A self ban? That's seriously sign of a bad loser, the type who would turn the console off when you were at the finish line 0.5 seconds in front of him....

Is it true that she never had a concession speech as she thought she was so sure to win?

Ffs, don't presume to know what people's motivations are. HIllary posters are still active, they are just taking a break from GAF. I'm speaking to them daily.

Several of them quit because they are terrified o the results and the implications for them and so wanted their accounts removing. Several quit because the election depressed them so much. And several quit because they knew a ton of people who have no experience of what happens in political campaigns would be treating everything they hear right now as gospel truth and looking to put someone on a bonfire. When campaigns lose it always becomes a huge blame game as people leak to save their jobs.

I mean, ffs, no concession speech. She was the most prepared candidate in history, and even Obama had concession speeches written. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about
 
A self ban? That's seriously sign of a bad loser, the type who would turn the console off when you were at the finish line 0.5 seconds in front of him....

Is it true that she never had a concession speech as she thought she was so sure to win?

Nah, Adam's good people. Just a bit misguided at times. I don't blame him, he's probably had a rough time these past few days.
 
Obama's campaign, from what I've read, was run like a goddamn well-oiled engine.

How could this happen?

She inherited Obama's infrastructure and the ideas behind it. It's probably the best thats ever been created when it comes to that stuff. That should have easily carried her to a win.

The problem from what it sounds like is they were convinced a win was inevitable, so they started acting dumb and not listening to advice like...hey maybe we should spend some time in Michigan since Sanders stomped us so bad out of nowhere.

The worst part is, it's basically exactly what happened to her in 08 against Obama. Same mistakes, same hubris. If you haven't, I really recommend reading Game Change about that election, it's fascinating and I see a lot of parallels to this one when it comes to Clinton.
 
It's a great slogan. It's loaded in saying America is no longer great but also sets out a positive message of turning that around.
It's certainly better than "I am with her", which is even more meaningless and focuses on Hillary Clinton as the message. She had another one, "better together" or something, that was decent, but that wasn't used that often. Hell, it didn't even stick properly for me to repeat it.
 
to all the people talking about the clinton supporters: i, for one, am still here

but i have had a haunted expression on my face for two days running that i don't think will ever go away and that's not even going into my mental health.

most of us are barely hanging on. so don't fault us for not wanting to post here either in the short run or permanently.
 
It's certainly better than "I am with her", which is even more meaningless and focuses on Hillary Clinton as the message. She had another one, "better together" or something, that was decent, but that wasn't used that often. Hell, it didn't even stick properly for me to repeat it.
Stronger Together. Don't feel so bad, Bill Clinton forgot it during a speech too. Google it.
 
It's certainly better than "I am with her", which is even more meaningless and focuses on Hillary Clinton as the message.
It didn't just place the value of the relationship on her, it also focused on the individual. It lets people say, "Well I'm not and don't want to be," as opposed to the similar yet much better, "She's with us."

Nah, Adam's good people. Just a bit misguided at times. I don't blame him, he's probably had a rough time these past few days.
to all the people talking about the clinton supporters: i, for one, am still here

but i have had a haunted expression on my face for two days running that i don't think will ever go away and that's not even going into my mental health.

most of us are barely hanging on. so don't fault us for not wanting to post here either in the short run or permanently.

These things too. I'm glad we're comfortable criticizing Hillary, the DNC, etc. now, but there has been an unpleasant uptick in conspiratorial posts from some people recently. Conspiracy and conspiratorial innuendo played an important role in this election from several angles, but we shouldn't speculate against eachother here.
 
I remeber when it was proudly announced that she flies home every day because she can't sleep in a hotel bed.

It's like people thought that would show how grounded and working class she is.

The funny thing about that thread here on GAF is that if it had just been Trump, he would have been ridiculed front to end by the Hillary-crowd. But everybody was "strangely" rather understanding of the both of them for flying home each night.
 
I remeber when it was proudly announced that she flies home every day because she can't sleep in a hotel bed.

It's like people thought that would show how grounded and working class she is.
Still don't understand how you claim to be the environmentally minded candidate while jetting back and forth around the country unnecessarily.
It's a great slogan. It's loaded in saying America is no longer great but also sets out a positive message of turning that around.
It's actually devious because of the terrible position you put your opponent in. Your opponent either has to acquiesce to the idea that they need to make the country great again (not in the same ways obviously but still that it needs some change) or you make them claim that the country is still great (which Hillary did) which instantly alienates your opponent from the people who feel disenfranchised or that the country isn't great because they feel unsafe and they've lost their jobs or futures.
 
I normally don't believe in Astroturf conspiracy statements like this, but considering that apparently during the Xbox One reveal a lot of junior accounts here defending MS traced back to Microsoft headquarters, and considering that some of the most ardent Hillary supporters (and I WAS one of them, never once supported Bernie) are MIA right now.

I don't know. I just don't know.

GAF so high on the list of Clinton site redirects was a dead giveaway.
Everyone was too afraid to say it.
 
The funny thing about that thread here on GAF is that if it had just been Trump, he would have been ridiculed front to end by the Hillary-crowd. But everybody was "strangely" rather understanding of the both of them for flying home each night.
That's cognitive dissonance for ya.

I'm on record in that thread saying that they're both fucking up the environment.
 
GAF so high on the list of Clinton site redirects was a dead giveaway.
Everyone was too afraid to say it.

That is a load of absolute horse crap, and you should be ashamed of it.

People whose posting history goes back years were correct the record shills? Ffs get a grip.

A lot of supporters have gone, either temporarily or permantly, for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones being a need to protect themselves from exactly this type of shameful garbage going on here. Those vanished posters are still talking to people and tryouts no to figure out what to do, just not in this sort of toxic environment.
 
That is a load of absolute horse crap, and you should be ashamed of it.

People whose posting history goes back years were correct the record shills? Ffs get a grip.

A lot of supporters have gone, either temporarily or permantly, for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones being a need to protect themselves from exactly this type of shameful garbage going on here. Those vanished posters are still talking to people and tryouts no to figure out what to do, just not in this sort of toxic environment.

oh no what a toxic environment where people criticize their queen openly
 
It's not a matter of when. It's a matter of where. And the answer is in people's memories.

Again, elections are not just about simple truth. Messaging is the name of the game. Yes, if you look at crime statistics or economic markers, in many ways, we may be much, much better off on average than we were ten, twenty or fifty years ago. But if someone feels less safe or less prosperous, perhaps even genuinely because they exist in a outlier industry or city, you still need to find a way to talk to them.

Perception is people's realities.
Yes there are people who watch their TVs and see a peaceful protest for BLM or what has been happening this week and see chaos and anarchy. Scares the shit out of them because of fear and they want it to stop.
 
oh no what a toxic environment where people criticize their queen openly
Reminds me of this Studio C sketch.

People are not angry because other people supported Hillary, hell, quite some Bernie supporters went on to vote Hillary. It's about the people who kicking down on other people, about the people that refused to walk with others and expected them to "fall in line".
 
I was a Bernie supporter (not online) and when he lost shifted right over to Hillary.

I feel betrayed now that I sent how she fucjed up.
Never doubted she wasn't liked just overestimated how many people would fall for the crazy guy just to avoid her or for fear of her policies. Lack of Dem turnout was all Hillary. Lack of charisma independent ideas and evidently bad management.

I'm pissed
 
I guess in some ways it is probably unfair to keep comparing this campaign to Obama's since his seems almost unprecedented in what it did and the results it churned.

But it does seem like her campaign should have been taking notes and advice from them at the least. They certainly had the money to do things right.
I read a few books on the 08 election. Obama had an App called Narwhal. Their ground game was next level. I guess I expected Hillary to inherit a few things from him but it appears Axelrod moved on. Such a goddamn shame
 
It's not a matter of when. It's a matter of where. And the answer is in people's memories.

Again, elections are not just about simple truth. Messaging is the name of the game. Yes, if you look at crime statistics or economic markers, in many ways, we may be much, much better off on average than we were ten, twenty or fifty years ago. But if someone feels less safe or less prosperous, perhaps even genuinely because they exist in a outlier industry or city, you still need to find a way to talk to them.

Perception is people's realities.

So fucking true. The vagueness of MAGA is that it lets everybody find their own era. I wrote it off as stupid, and it is because it lacks specificity and is therefore empty. But goddamn if it isn't good politics.
 
It's certainly better than "I am with her", which is even more meaningless and focuses on Hillary Clinton as the message. She had another one, "better together" or something, that was decent, but that wasn't used that often. Hell, it didn't even stick properly for me to repeat it.

I never got the Better Together one. Am pretty sure they picked it from the Scottish Independence vote (the winning Unionists campaign was called Better Together); so I didn't really get how it fitted the contest of the election.

Supposedly they tried hundreds of slogans which to me just shows a campaign with not enough input from experienced politicians. When political folk start blaming bad polls you know theyre not natural politicians - polls are a tool, not a strategy. The polls clearly showed her unfavourable numbers and that Trump was competitive in key states.
 
It cracks me up that you guys don't even remember that her slogan was "Stronger Together". That's pretty good evidence that it was shit.

The fucked up thing is, that wasn't even her worst slogan. (Love Trumps Hate).
 
It cracks me up that you guys don't even remember that her slogan was "Stronger Together". That's pretty good evidence that it was shit.

The fucked up thing is, that wasn't even her worst slogan. (Love Trumps Hate).


That one cracks me up because where I live the Clinton campaign ran an attack ad that showed the clip of Trump mocking the disabled reporter about 6 million times. They took the low road over and over and then still wanted credit for taking the high road.
 
That is a load of absolute horse crap, and you should be ashamed of it.

People whose posting history goes back years were correct the record shills? Ffs get a grip.
Obviously not all HillGAF were astroturfers or anything but the amount of vitriol being spewed towards anyone questioning her was mindbogling even for a liberal forum.

A lot of supporters have gone, either temporarily or permantly, for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones being a need to protect themselves from exactly this type of shameful garbage going on here. Those vanished posters are still talking to people and tryouts no to figure out what to do, just not in this sort of toxic environment.

I am sure lashing out against me will help.
In any case they are slowly coming back to PoliGAF, complaining about the "White left Tea Party". I am at a loss of words on that one.
 
The worst part is, it's basically exactly what happened to her in 08 against Obama. Same mistakes, same hubris. If you haven't, I really recommend reading Game Change about that election, it's fascinating and I see a lot of parallels to this one when it comes to Clinton.

This is the most frustrating thing about this. Hilary learned NOTHING from her defeat in 2008 and Sander's strong, dark horse run.

Hubris
Arrogance
Taking shit for granted
Being tone deaf

These were the same damn mistakes she made in 2008, and she fell into the same damn trap. I've been told for the past 18 months from Hilary diehards that Hilary Clinton was this super smart, experienced person that will get shit done. She sure as hell betrays that image as far as I can see,
 
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