?? Because the media was nothing but hostile to Trump and he's the president?
Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves
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?? Because the media was nothing but hostile to Trump and he's the president?
Sanders would've gotten 80%+ of H voters, and stole some from Trump too. People who wanted an outsider but were wary of the crazy
The media is not why she lost. The people are why she lost. They weren't motivated, energized or enthused by her. She ignored the rust belt. She ignored a large part of the populace in general.
Sure bad things happened in the media, but they always do. That's not what cost her the election.
SolidSnakex
Member
You can blame the Clinton campaign and the DNC for that because the media did exactly what they wanted them to do
http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...ed-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
TarpitCarnivore
Member
You're aware that part of this was due to the echo chamber constantly engaging and sharing the material right? The amount of anti-trump stuff I saw within my circle was off the charts. Let's not forget the terribly dumb Drumpf thing from Last Week Tonight
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie, and Pence are all going to be great yes men for Trump, to name a few. Hell, Pence congratulated Trump on his performance in the debates after being snubbed by Trump's "we don't talk much" line. Cronyism is as lucrative as ever.
No he was not "normalized." He was cast as an unacceptable choice, from the very moment he talked about building a wall. He was characterized as a joke candidate, through and through and was never at any point considered a good choice. And Hillary was always cast as the "correct" choice, despite being universally hated.
Blaming this on the media is the ultimate scapegoat. Lest we forget, we already did this 8 years ago. It's just that Hillary never got past the primaries.
UnemployedVillain
Member
When I think of liberal bubble, I think of how those people are perceived from the outside. Far outside. As in from the perception of a rural or poor right winger. Basically as "college educated middle class". Obviously those aren't really the elite class in the country, but for the sake of argument, those would be the types most accused of being elitist liberals
Yep and like a fool I held my nose and voted for Hillary. Too bad no one else did! lololol.
Seriously... going to cry about the media reporting the news you feed them now? WTF. The Gotcha liberal media at it again?! omfg.
SneakersSO
Member
The media was hostile to CLINTON!?! Are you kidding me? The owners of CNN, Time Warner, WERE SOME OF HER HIGHEST DONORS!
The media tried as hard as they possibly could to surpress the ridiculous amount of bile that kept coming up about HRC. Wikileaks emails barely got any coverage. The Donna Brazile question leaked barely got coverage, which is ironic & hypocritical today because all the media can talk about is how Trump got stuff leaked to him from FOX all the time during the election, which came out this morning.
The media chalked up a ton of legitimate criticism to conspiracy theory rhetoric, and no one ever fully explored even half of the claims that were being made, which is both good & bad, because a lot of it was mostly bullshit. However, thats the point - by the media ignoring all those stories and not separating real from fiction, and by some of those stories getting proven true, ALL OF THE STORIES had the potential to be true, and that ultimately fully played into her being dishonest & sneaky. Her campaign did nothing to remedy that. This was her perception. The media fully gave her a pass that they'd never give any other candidate, including Trump.
Trump was the one the media spent 90% of its efforts on demonizing, which was the same thing Hillary pushed - he's the devil, vote for me. There were several media outlets who came out yesterday and admitted they were part of the problem; that for the last month they had become cheerleaders for HRC, when they should've been journalists. And you're gonna sit here & say that the media was too hostile to her? GTFO.
You know, I was having an argument with a Trump supporter a few days before the election... He said Trump was going to win, and relatively comfortably.
I accused him of being in the bubble! Not listening to facts! Look at all this polling data! How could you refute that?
All the while, we were in the bubble. And yes, part of the media was too.
Except maybe with the tape, they weren't hostile. They treated his disgusting viewpoints as eccentric wild slips of the tongue. Online outlets read by the left took him seriously, of course, but television is dominant for the average voter, and this is what they see:
Audioboxer
Member
Don't be too harsh on yourself there. I think MANY Trump fans who would say that would say it for the same reason you want your sports team to win. Sheer hope, belief and wish. No facts needed.
Hence why we usually try to rely on pollsters and neutrals to make sense of political trends and likely outcomes. Oh boy did they fuck up this time though... Only a handful called Trump.
Dems don't need a Liberal Trump. They need someone who can actually go out there and inspire. Yes, they could be wrong about things or have bits that aren't exactly liberal... but they need fire. They have to have a candidate who makes me want to vote for them, because I believe in them. Not a candidate who I feel like I should vote for because the other option is absolutely fucking atrocious. Clinton was not that. Obama was. That's the difference.
Every I think of Bams, I think of Harvey Milk. Yes, it's not perfect, but he gives you Hope. If you fight, there is a chance that Hope will come true. Clinton never did. Clinton was the definition of settling for less.
Rather, the DNC fucked up by putting there hands over their ears and not listening... now, it looks like they want to shove their entire head up their ass.
Every I think of Bams, I think of Harvey Milk. Yes, it's not perfect, but he gives you Hope. If you fight, there is a chance that Hope will come true. Clinton never did. Clinton was the definition of settling for less.
Rather, the DNC fucked up by putting there hands over their ears and not listening... now, it looks like they want to shove their entire head up their ass.
Then you and I must have watched different coverage.
CNN had to kick Navaro off the panel because she was screaming at the Trump surrogates defending it. Lemon could barely contain his composure, and everyone there was denouncing it. Did you want them to light people on fire or something?
The problem was, as it turned out, that people didn't really care. They wanted to 'drain the swamp' so badly they were able to overlook his racism, xenophobia, and his sexual predatory history.
Yep. Think of all the Democratic nominees who have lost in the last 20 years... Gore, Kerry, Clinton. What did they all have in common? They were boring candidates.
How much more do we have to see? Voters don't care about policy. We've known this since the very first televised debates. When will the party learn?
UnemployedVillain
Member
But that's the point! "Joke" characters are what we reserve for people with no power and no true ability to influence. Comedians are jokes. The problem is that we kept calling someone with the possibility of real, significant power a "joke" instead of rightfully acknowledging him as a dangerous entity like he was. Not saying everyone did, but enough of the media did that most people did "normalize" his behavior as this crazy joke of an individual, instead of this crazy dangerous person with the potential to be placed at one of the most important positions in the world.
Yeah I know. I'm saying it's the perception. It's the stereotype. And as we all know, stereotypes aren't always accurate.
teruterubozu
Member
C'mon. We were all in on the media shit. We loved the train wreck aspect of it. Fuckin' 5+ Trump threads a day.
Oh lord. No they weren't. They normalized him from day 1 and never pressed him on hard questions, ever. No "What will you do about Aleppo?" moment because they wanted to make him look strong. It all comes back to that leaked audio from Morning Joe, and the CBS boss saying he's "good for business".
Meanwhile with Clinton they killed her on everything even when they didn't actually have anything. It was a disgrace.
I have to seriously wonder if the people claiming the media was hostile to Clinton own a TV and actually watch cable news.
Except quite a few people did. Everyone just called them stupid and naive.
PdotMichael
Banned
At this point it is: any Trump coverage = support for Trump
Although it was pretty much every time about his bullshit, which painted him in a bad light.
Pretty sure you couldn't find many opinions that it was a good thing for Trump before the election.
Audioboxer
Member
Yup, and while this is true, I always hammer home it's never a reason not to go out and vote. Never settle on "its cool, someone else has this vote covered because the media says it's in the bag".
This is kind of hilariously true. There was about 10 Trump threads a day where you could kind of only respond with "Ohhh Trump." because it was just about another thing he said. Sadly those were the days that fueled such a belief he could never win because of the volume of ridiculous statements.
Defend what? The tape? Because I said that's the only time they didn't simply tolerate him. They had some people on panels who opposed him, but they always made sure to provide 'neutrality' in the form of people on Trump's payroll as well.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Really now, Fox News wasn't hostile to Clinton? CNN didn't extensively cover the emails? What was the media doing when the FBI interfered with the election last minute for no good reason at all? They speak a good week and a half dragging her through the fucking mud, and remember when Trump started talking about things being rigged? What happened? First off, some in Fox News peddled that exact same rhetoric, and then you would have places like CNN asking the question, "is it rigged?" Could this happen? All the while almost completely ignoring voter suppression, and the GOP essentially bragging about it, or being shot down(in part) by the courts in some areas. (or never called it just how fucked up and unfair it is that Clinton was being specifically targeted by hackers, releasing all her personal shit, while those hackers praise Trump the hell and back... and you had the whole russia thing which SHOULD have been constantly talking about, but it wasn't good for ratings, apparently)
I want you to consider how Clinton would've been treated if she had a fucking fraud trial coming up after the election, do you think the media completely forgets to remind the public of that fact? HELL NO. Double standards are a thing, and they were very fucking real here.
So you're saying that instead of treating Trump like a clown, he should have been treated like a serial killer?
1. That's not an excuse, because you don't vote for the clown anymore than you vote for a serial killer. Neither is an acceptable leader.
2. Trump eventually evolved from clown to serial killer.
3. This isn't the media's job anyway; it's Hillary's job to dehumanize Trump.
4. To think that this would have had any difference is just another symptom of the echo chamber. People did not want Hillary. Despite her long list of accomplishments and years of experience, she represented exactly the opposite of what people wanted. Plus, people already hated her. As we all saw, people were willing to vote for TRUMP, despite him being cast as Hitler.
People wanted change. Period. The only way Hillary could have won was if the media painted her as a new-age hippie.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Where exactly do you think the bubble comes from? Do you somehow mystically gain this information while sleeping and share it amongst yourselves when you wake?
The media are lapdogs. Nothing more. I warned everyone to fucking ignore the lot of them months ago. Ignore them, the polls, the whole stupid lot.
They are not on your side. They curry favor with their leaders, donations, etc. They aren't there to tell you what they see, they are there to warp the truth to make you comfortable so you echo what they say so they feel validated.
It worked.
Lys Skygge
Member
I agree with them in that those things helped contribute to Clintons loss, however, the Clinton campaign shares much of the blame as well.
It's crazy that people think ther politicsl campaigns, especially clinton's wouldnt have editorial control is some tin foil hat bs.
When the primaries started to get heated, before wiki leaks, it leaked that the new strategy was going to discredit sanders directly by paying astroturfers and by using joint attacks with the media to denounce his capabilities. This is even how the triviality of the "she's not qualified" came forth, with Clinton skirting the line after this was leaked and sanders responding vehemently defending his character on what was reported to him. The media circus of course decided to give the time to this "controversy" versus anything else.
The Clinton wing needs to go and not just because of losing and being incompetent, but for being rotten to the core in their campaign strategies and goals.
lol yes I do.
You had all the hosts debating Trump reps on Hillarys behalf. You had trump calling into shows daily and Hillary refusing to answer press questions.
Clinton didn't get that kind of coverage? She DIDNT HOLD RALLIES! She had private fund raisers! JESUS.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Did you read or understand anything I said? Anything that anyone else has said?? Look at how big bankers are portrayed when their scandals are exposed. Look at Anthony Weiner was portrayed for just sexting. Then compare that to Trump was portrayed. How his surrogates and their "boys will be boys" comments were portrayed.
How can you not see this?
The idea of having surrogates instead of actual social scientists is crazy.
His "surrogates" don't represent the media. Of course they're going to take up for their candidate. Did you want CNN to put "fucking moron" on a banner while they were speaking or something?
UnemployedVillain
Member
Yeah, I'm done
legacyzero
Banned
Maybe.
But the problem is, Hillary supporters took that kind of stance for almost literally EVERYTHING she's done. Emails, trade deals, special interests. Iraq, banks, Clinton foundation, etc etc.
Before you grill the media, the voters have to look at themselves.
At the very least they should be fact checking aggressively since day 1. More people are migrating to Mexico than to the US. Crime rates for inmigrants aren't higher. Hiring surrogates that have to lie in order to protect their clients and repeat what they just said is awful.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Well be done then. I see that you described Bernie's base an "elite liberal thought bubble," so now I have a better understanding at your very warped perspective.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
CNN put his surrogates front and center, hours upon hours, peddling their and his bullshit, and it was a ratings grab, we all know.. Did this happen last cycle, did they hire a Corey Lewandowski type in 2012? I mean, CNN turned into the goddamn Jerry Springer show, and that right there is good for a carnival barker like Trump. We've seen the rallies, they eat that shit up.
Clinton News Network, my ass, they dragged her through the fucking mud OFTEN. They were salivating when the Comey released that letter and completely changed the narrative of the election.
SDCowboy
Member
I really wish there was a Trump/Election sticky thread.
And they just let his surrogates' claims go unchallenged? When?
jesus fucking christ
Van Jones? Angela Rye? Anna Navarro?
To act like Trump surrogates got to say whatever they wanted with out being called on their bullshit is....bullshit.
Vestal
Junior Member
The blame lies on the media, the campaign and every single one of us that thought simply casting our vote was enough. We didn't do more and for that our children may very well suffer the consequences. It now falls on us the people to right those wrongs. To lend voice to those that dont have a voice. To defend the rights of those that can't fight against oppression or persecution.
Agent_Carnage
Member
After a few days of thinking on this heres where to blame.
1. The Clinton campaign itself. As they eather dident see or dident anticipate the working class coming out in droves in WI,MI and PA. The Clinton campaign I dont think fully addressed this demographic to sway to her from Trump.
2. The DNC itself. I think they needed to clean house with the DNC leaks it painted them in a poor light as being self interest.
3. The ads never talked about Clintons policy's. In all the ads I seen here in FL it was all about what Trump has said. That tactic dident work. What the ads should of been Clintons policy
1. The Clinton campaign itself. As they eather dident see or dident anticipate the working class coming out in droves in WI,MI and PA. The Clinton campaign I dont think fully addressed this demographic to sway to her from Trump.
2. The DNC itself. I think they needed to clean house with the DNC leaks it painted them in a poor light as being self interest.
3. The ads never talked about Clintons policy's. In all the ads I seen here in FL it was all about what Trump has said. That tactic dident work. What the ads should of been Clintons policy
Vestal
Junior Member
Someone who lies through his teeth like Corey L and Jeff Lord should not be validated by having a platform on national TV.
Yes, the media that donated huge amounts towards the Clinton campaign but still had ratings as a top priority. The media failed you because Trump actually had a good plan to control and dominate the 24/7 news cycle. But lets not forget that Clinton was being favored and the media blurred and ignoring Sanders until he actually started winning primaries at which point they started their crucifixion of his character. Having long term Democrat Icons reaffirming the Clinton campaign memos on National TV like calling him sexist, calling his supporters racists, reaffirming the Bernie Bro narrative on live TV, calling into question his Civil Rights Record, saying young women who supported him were entitled - didn't know real struggles - were just there for the boys, his plans were scrutinized far more by Mainstream Media than any other candidates because there would be follow up question after follow up question and gotcha interviews where they simply were looking for someone who is a policy wonk instead of concentrating on what actually makes Bernie a good candidate. He understood there was a large rift that politics as usual won't be able to mend.
It's clear to me that you barely watched this elections coverage on CNN through this entire year if you have to ask.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's cool that voters can't share in the blame of getting the cheeto monster elected though, because Clinton made the mistake of listening to the blowout narrative, or not thinking she was about to get blindsided by the FBI a couple weeks before election day, while early voting was going on, and then dropped when early voting finished. Gosh, Clinton, how come you did see that coming?
Voting isn't hard(unless you're being suppressed, but lets not talk about that!), but boo hoo, she didn't visit certain states, or she was charismatic, or wasn't a man. CHILDISH SHIT. She was the only fucking option, and now we have what can be one of the most conservative government for the next 4 years. I mean, 45% of voters essentially said, "fuck it", both are just as bad as each other, so lets be apathetic and help plunge this country into a potential horror show. Beautiful.
Voting isn't hard(unless you're being suppressed, but lets not talk about that!), but boo hoo, she didn't visit certain states, or she was charismatic, or wasn't a man. CHILDISH SHIT. She was the only fucking option, and now we have what can be one of the most conservative government for the next 4 years. I mean, 45% of voters essentially said, "fuck it", both are just as bad as each other, so lets be apathetic and help plunge this country into a potential horror show. Beautiful.
legacyzero
Banned
I struggle to put this on voters after SHE and the DNC left a great deal of them disenfranchised. Their mistreatment of the Bernie camp with the condescending demand hat they "fall in line" with no good reason other than "TRUMP BAD". In all that, they stupidly forgot to tell us why she's good. Why we should stomach our pride and vote for her. I don't give a fuck who the opponent is. If you abandon your base, they will not only abandon you, they'll flip on you. Trump courted the Bernie base 100% more than she did! She didn't after the demographic that we just assumed she'd have in the GE. The black vote for example. Look at how many times she mistreated BLM right to their faces. Stupid pandering platitudes like "she's like your Abuela!"
This isn't on the voters. You gotta fucking EARN that vote. Not demand it. People aren't going to buy what you're selling if the product has proven time after time as untrustworthy. Even if the competing product is shitty, buyers will try it at least once just to make sure.
this would've pissed me off even if she had won. normalizing his ilk would still have been considered insanely destructive
and she didn't win. so she had a hand in sculpting this nightmare hellscape herself. I am so insanely angry at her right now.
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