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[Ventilaator]

Everybody else, regardless if they vote right or left, belong to the same team and should look at each other with empathy and establish a meaningful dialog.

No joke, I burst out laughing at this part.

People voted for Trump, whose entire platform could easily be summed up with "Everyone other than me is garbage", and then those people are going to look at the other group with empathy?

If there was any chance of...empathy existing in people in any form...we wouldn't be in this situation at all.

 

[Peyotl]

When you vote, you vote for everything the candidate stands off. You can't just select whatever you like and ignore the bad stuff.

So when you vote Trump, even if you're not racist, you're sending an OK message towards his racist/sexist views.

Maybe "silent majority" of Trump voters should stop being silent and issue an petition that they support Trump for his economic promises, not for his sexist and racist rhetoric and that they do not stand behind discrimination, bigotry and dismantling the civil rights of minorities.
If they are loud enough, maybe Trump will follow, he seems to care more about public image and the appreciation of the crowds rather than political ideology.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Is there anywhere to watch the Clinton / Trump election results stream?

 

[RedSonja]

Is there anywhere to watch the Clinton / Trump election results stream?

www.youtube.com

 

[ItIsOkBro]

www.youtube.com

I can't find the so called watch parties

 

[HeelPower]

Donald Trump - Never Come Down

I honestly love this beat.Its pretty great,also really like the chord progressions!

 

[Sad Affleck]

No joke, I burst out laughing at this part.

People voted for Trump, whose entire platform could easily be summed up with "Everyone other than me is garbage", and then those people are going to look at the other group with empathy?

If there was any chance of...empathy existing in people in any form...we wouldn't be in this situation at all.

I followed the discussion here on GAF for months but I didn't participate since I am an outsider. Both sides circled their wagons and refused to budge but that is to be expected from regular voters. Clinton's campaign's mistake of following the same logic and labelling every Trump supporter as a deplorable cost her the presidency. The media made the same mistake, treating Trump's candidacy, himself and his supporters as a joke. When you are wondering why people would vote for such a terrible person the easy answer is because these people are stupid racist hicks. The hard answer is that your failure to approach them, reason with them and reassure them that you care about their problems was so complete that they turned to the only other option they had.

 

[Brinbe]

I followed the discussion here on GAF for months but I didn't participate since I am an outsider. Both sides circled their wagons and refused to budge but that is to be expected from regular voters. Clinton's campaign's mistake of following the same logic and labelling every Trump supporter as a deplorable cost her the presidency. The media made the same mistake, treating Trump's candidacy, himself and his supporters as a joke. When you are wondering why people would vote for such a terrible person the easy answer is because these people are stupid racist hicks. The hard answer is that your failure to approach them, reason with them and reassure them that you care about their problems was so complete that they turned to the only other option they had.

hahahahahahhaa what bullshit. You act as if Dems aren't already extremely conciliatory to a fault. People aren't acting this way as a default response. These Trump voters legitimately don't listen to reason and don't care about anyone else but themselves. They've proven that time and time again. Look at a place like Kansas hard hit by awful conservative policies. Their economy is dead last in the nation now http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Survey-suggests-Kansas-has-worst-economy-in-US-400134791.html And what did they do? Double down on the people that brought them that mess. How do you explain that?

People are stupid. Voting to make their lives considerably worse.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Laugh all you want. The same thing that happened in the US also happened in the UK and is in danger of happening all over Europe. Dangerous people are being elected in positions of power all over the world. Unless there is a drastic change we are all fucked.

 

[Regginator]

To lighten up the mood a little, I just found this pic in my feed, lol

 

[Zips]

Maher is taking exactly the wrong approach. Feeling optimistic is fine for making you feel good, not so effective for what is actually necessary right now.

It seems to me like the central public figures are all trying to keep things from spiralling out of control and descending into mass civil unrest and violence, hence the supposed optimism and sudden light hearted suggestions of how it might not be so bad, suggesting everyone come together etc.

They probably recognize that there is a sensitive situation right now, which if they don't try to tone things down it could erupt into conflict.

A significant public figure taking lead of and supporting the movement could be a big part of what would be needed to help spin it into a government takedown. As long as they all toe the line and try to sooth everyone by saying things are ok, they are playing the waiting game and hoping the unrest peters out.

 

[legacyzero]

I was just reminded of the Dem Primary and Bernie upsetting in Michigan. Another sign.

I still can't fathom all this. I'm maybe just a little bit frightened by all of it

 

[Neoweee]

I was just reminded of the Dem Primary and Bernie upsetting in Michigan. Another sign.

I still can't fathom all this. I'm maybe just a little bit frightened by all of it

How is bad demographic weighting in polls before a primary a bad sign?

 

[Ventilaator]

The hard answer is that your failure to aprroach them, reason with them and reassure them that you care about their problems was so complete that they turned to the only other option they had.

I'm sure GAF has given this exact response to that exact argument a million times by now, but what the heck let's go again.

"No no no don't get me wrong, I'm not actually racist, I'm only racist because I saw the left getting angry about racism. This makes sense."

It's just...no.

You are trying to humanize Trump voters by saying that they were just worrying about X or Y and if only there was more Z this wouldn't have happened. My problem with that is that the idea of someone who realizes how awful Trump is, but still votes for him because he said "Jobs!" once, is even more horrifying than the idea of a Trump voter who just got really excited about the wall. The second guy is just dumb and uninformed, THAT PROBLEM CAN BE FIXED, the first one is an actively malicious monster.

I was unemployed for two years, which made life pretty difficult. Eventually I got a job...in a company that's constantly moving different elements into cheaper countries, so who knows how stable that is. I may have 'economic anxiety', and the plight of minorities like, completely 100% does not affect me in any way. Heck, I live in a country where I see a black person about once a month and it still feels like seeing a unicorn.

But I'm still voting left, because none of the above means I now have a free pass to be a complete dickhead to everyone. I may have struggled to get by, but I have a mother and two sisters. If the guy who promises to help me also thinks women exist only to be submissive to men, that's not a deal I'm going to make. Because unlike every single person who voted for Trump, I actually have empathy for other people, and sometimes care about stuff that's not completely about me.

 

[Oersted]

I won't pretend to understand what you're going through since I'm neither an american nor a minority. I think I have something to contribute in this discussion because I want to adress your point about half the country not caring about your rights.

Simply put, I don't believe that half of the US population is racist or that it doesn't care about minority rights. I believe that in most reasonably modern countries most people are supportive of minority rights. However, most people vote based on their personal interests first.

Trump pandered to a group of voters that were feeling completely left out by the political establishment. Many of those voters were desperate. When your own livelihood is at stake you will not put the interests of other people above your own. I wouldn't and you wouldn't either. You voted based on which candidate better represented your interests, others did the same.

Part of Trump's audience is undoubtedly made up of racists, gamergaters or just plain stupid people. The overwhelming majority of the people who voted for Trump didn't do it because they hate you or because they want you to suffer. They voted for him because, as vile and disgusting as he can be, he was the only one that directly adressed their concerns and gave them hope that something might change in their lives for the better.

Dismissing every Trump supporter as a racist, homophobic, fascist scumbag is a surefire way of driving a wedge between the american people and cementing an "us verus them" mentality. You don't need to coddle the racists or the homophobes or the scumbags, they are most likely too far gone. Everybody else, regardless if they vote right or left, belong to the same team and should look at each other with empathy and establish a meaningful dialog. Help others understands your plight, listen to others explaining theirs.

History has a rather long list of people voting for sexists/xenophobes for not xenophobic/sexist reasons, which than acted sexist and xenophobic in horrific ways.

 

[JaggedSac]

Can someone link me to those tweets he made during the 2012 election regarding the popular vote and revolution?

 

[Sad Affleck]

You are trying to humanize Trump voters by saying that they were just worrying about X or Y and if only there was more Z this wouldn't have happened. My problem with that is that the idea of someone who realizes how awful Trump is, but still votes for him because he said "Jobs!" once, is even more horrifying than the idea of a Trump voter who just got really excited about the wall. The second guy is just dumb and uninformed, THAT PROBLEM CAN BE FIXED, the first one is an actively malicious monster.

Or just desperate.

 

[RPGCrazied]

I'm so scared, I'm now at a position to owning a gun. I hate guns, but I feel like my rights as a gay citizen is over. I fear harassment, assault more than ever before.

 

[transformer]

You are trying to humanize Trump voters by saying that they were just worrying about X or Y and if only there was more Z this wouldn't have happened. My problem with that is that the idea of someone who realizes how awful Trump is, but still votes for him because he said "Jobs!" once, is even more horrifying than the idea of a Trump voter who just got really excited about the wall. The second guy is just dumb and uninformed, THAT PROBLEM CAN BE FIXED, the first one is an actively malicious monster..

We got here due to intolerance of other people's opinions and viewpoints. You can easily replace "Trump" from your statement with "Clinton" and replace the talking points and that is how the Trump supporters feel and led them to vote for him. Let me show you (for the record I don't believe either side of this rhetoric):

You are trying to humanize Clinton voters by saying they were just worrying about X or Y and if there was more Z this wouldn't have happened. My problem with that is the idea of someone who realized how awful Clinton is, but still votes for her because she said "healthcare!" once, is even more horrifying than the idea of a Clinton voter who just got really excited about open borders. The second guy is just dumb and uninformed....

I suggest we all stop pointing fingers and stop being intolerant towards others. Instead, let's have actual discussion and debate. No name calling, no generalizing, etc. I'm not optimistic this will work, but it certainly more productive than the rhetoric going on right now.

 

[Wollan]

What are the chances we will see a pro-environment and/or non-creationist Republican candidate in the next election?

 

[Vyer]

Or just desperate.

Which is the absolute worst type of person to use to shape your decisions.

 

[Kathian]

I do hope this is just click bait...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-president-elect-donald-trump-support-assad-putin-syria-remove-rebel-backing-a7413346.html

Honestly don't trust anything from the independent. People need to be wary - it'd populist and has questionable sources with a greatly reduced team of jornos

 

[Vyer]

We got here due to intolerance of other people's opinions and viewpoints. You can easily replace "Trump" from your statement with "Clinton" and replace the talking points and that is how the Trump supporters feel and led them to vote for him. Let me show you (for the record I don't believe either side of this rhetoric):

You are trying to humanize Clinton voters by saying they were just worrying about X or Y and if there was more Z this wouldn't have happened. My problem with that is the idea of someone who realized how awful Clinton is, but still votes for her because she said "healthcare!" once, is even more horrifying than the idea of a Clinton voter who just got really excited about open borders. The second guy is just dumb and uninformed....

I suggest we all stop pointing fingers and stop being intolerant towards others. Instead, let's have actual discussion and debate. No name calling, no generalizing, etc. I'm not optimistic this will work, but it certainly more productive than the rhetoric going on right now.

We got here because some abhorrent and hateful views and speech got further tolerated and normalized. And because the counter to that stuff wasn't strong enough to overcome apathy. Your attempt at a Clinton parallel falls apart but you offer it because we've reached the point where you think there is an equivalence.

In any case, Solve the counter problem. Get those millions that just walked away.

The absolute wrong approach to this is to further normalize hate speech, bigotry and misogyny.

 

[Ventilaator]

We got here due to intolerance of other people's opinions and viewpoints.

This is right back to "Calling me racist makes you double racist"

"I think we've gone too far with this whole 'groups other than straight white males are human too' nonsense" is not an opinion that should be tolerated.

 

[Strike]

What are the chances we will see a pro-environment and/or non-creationist Republican candidate in the next election?

Unlikely. Now that they've won the congress, the supreme court, and white house there's little incentive for them to change.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Which is the absolute worst type of person to use to shape your decisions.

That's why you try to approach these people, talk to them and understand the problems they are facing. "Oh you worked in the coal industry? Bummer, there's nothing we can do, please vote us anyway because we're the good guys, kthxbye." Trump knew exactly where to strike and the democrats let him.

 

[transformer]

We got here because some abhorrent and hateful views and speech got further tolerated and normalized. And because the counter to that stuff wasn't strong enough to overcome apathy. Your attempt at a Clinton parallel falls apart but you offer it because we've reached the point where you think there is an equivalence.

In any case, Solve the counter problem. Get those millions that just walked away.

The absolute wrong approach to this is to further normalize hate speech, bigotry and misogyny.

Yeah... I think you pretty much proved my point here. There is not a large coordinated movement to normalize hate speech, bigotry, misogyny, etc. There is intolerance and you are trying to justify the intolerance with hateful rhetoric.

 

[Vyer]

Yeah... I think you pretty much proved my point here. There is not a large coordinated movement to normalize hate speech, bigotry, misogyny, etc. There is intolerance and you are trying to justify the intolerance with hateful rhetoric.

Then you probably need to research a little more.

But the idea that you think not tolerating racism is 'hateful rhetoric' probably says enough.

 

[Ventilaator]

There is not a large coordinated movement to normalize hate speech, bigotry, misogyny, etc.

This is literally what anti-PC shit like Gamergate is. And now half the country decided to tell every single person in those groups that what they're doing is good and worthwhile.

And it's the liberals who are being hateful by not being tolerant of that.

 

[Vyer]

That's why you try to approach these people, talk to them and understand the problems they are facing. "Oh you worked in the coal industry? Bummer, there's nothing we can do, please vote us anyway because we're the good guys, kthxbye." Trump knew exactly where to strike and the democrats let him.

That's what the better counter has to offer. It can still be done without trying to tolerate the hateful stuff. At least it should be possible, if as some claim, these people don't also carry some agreement with those views with them.

Understand, though, that you still face a roadblock. Trump probably isn't going to help those people, or at least not offer more of the same. Repubs have done plenty to create their plight. They didn't care, or they bought Trump's con. It's a tough hurdle to reach those folks.

 

[Sad Affleck]

That's what the better counter has to offer. It can still be done without trying to tolerate the hateful stuff. At least it should be possible, if as some claim, these people don't also carry some agreement with those views with them.

Understand, though, that you still face a roadblock. Trump probably isn't going to help those people, or at least not offer more of the same. Repubs have done plenty to create their plight. They didn't care, or they bought Trump's con. It's a tough hurdle to reach those folks.

It's very tough but it has to be done. Otherwise Trump-like candidates become the norm and the whole world suffers.

 

[Vyer]

It's very tough but it has to be done. Otherwise Trump-like candidates become the norm and the whole world suffers.

Agreed, but normalizing and tolerating the hate speech has the same effect. There are people right now who are emboldened to think their views are more acceptable now that they've seen Trump win. And they will believe they have a shot at those positions of power now too. It's a dangerous path either way.

 

[Ventilaator]

Otherwise Trump-like candidates become the norm and the whole world suffers.

Yeah this already happened. Trump already won on a platform of fascism. In the absolute impossible best case scenario where he gets immediately impeached and for some reason his supporters completely accept it, he still won a national election on a platform of white supremacy.

So the next time you're like "Ugh, Youtube comments" you should remember that it's not a small minority of 4chan weirdos or edgy teenagers, it's literally 50% of the country.

 

[transformer]

Then you probably need to research a little more.

But the idea that you think not tolerating racism is 'hateful rhetoric' probably says enough.

Another example supporting my claims. I don't think what you assume I think. I merely claim that calling people racist, or other hateful things, when they are none of these things is hateful rhetoric. I stand by that.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Agreed, but normalizing and tolerating the hate speech has the same effect. There are people right now who are emboldened to think their views are more acceptable now that they've seen Trump win. And they will believe they have a shot at those positions of power now too. It's a dangerous path either way.

Hate speech absolutely shouldn't be tolerated. If someone says "Trump is right, Mexicans are criminals" or "I'm voting for Trump because I don't trust a woman as president" then go ahead and call them racist, misogynistic shitheads because that's what they are. However, many people made the colossal mistake of labelling Trump voters as racist, misogynistic shitheads before they even got the chance to explain why they were voting for him. Many democrats and liberals held (and still do hold) the opinion that Trump voter= racist misogynistic shithead by default. That is just not true.

 

[Ventilaator]

I merely claim that calling people racist, or other hateful things, when they are none of these things is hateful rhetoric. I stand by that.

I would agree with that. I've just not seen that happen yet. Voting for the "White males are the only real group of people" candidate kind of by definition makes you a racist.

 

[transformer]

I would agree with that. I've just not seen that happen yet. Voting for the "White males are the only real group of people" candidate kind of by definition makes you a racist.

But I didn't vote for him, so am I not racist then? Because I was originally told I was racist because I didn't vote for Hillary... I'd like to know how to appropriately not be a racist. This is an important line to iron out. Let's put it down:

Vote for Hillary: not racist.
Vote for Trump: racist
Vote for third party (Johnson, stein, etc): Racists or not? Does it matter which one is voted for or can be group non Hillary/Trump votes all in one?

 

[Ventilaator]

But I didn't vote for him, so am I not racist then? Because I was originally told I was racist because I didn't vote for Hillary... I'd like to know how to appropriately not be a racist. This is an important line to iron out. Let's put it down:

Vote for Hillary: not racist.
Vote for Trump: racist
Vote for third party (Johnson, stein, etc): Racists or not? Does it matter which one is voted for or can be group non Hillary/Trump votes all in one?

It's

Vote for Trump: Racist, or ridiculously stupid.
Vote for anyone else: I don't know your story and don't have the information to judge. You could still be anything, I just don't know.

Glad to have helped.

 

[transformer]

It's

Vote for Trump: Racist, or ridiculously stupid.
Vote for anyone else: I don't know your story and don't have the information to judge.

Glad to have helped.

Great! I'm thankful to not be racist and I think I found the overall problem. Intolerance. Now to try and find a solution!

 

[Sad Affleck]

It's

Vote for Trump: Racist, or ridiculously stupid.

This attitude played a part in Trump winning the presidency.

 

[Izuna]

This attitude played a part in Trump winning the presidency.

Why
Do
People
Say
This

"People say a Trump vote is Racist. Well fuck you I'll vote for him then!"

 

[Ventilaator]

This attitude played a part in Trump winning the presidency.

So people voted for a racist because they were told to not vote for a racist?

I thought children weren't allowed to vote.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Why
Do
People
Say
This

"People say a Trump vote is Racist. Well fuck you I'll vote for him then!"

People who spite vote for a racist are ridiculously stupid.

 

[Master Yoshi]

Instead of ever adopting #thanksTrump, can we transfer #thanksObama into #thankswhitepeople?

 

[Vyer]

Another example supporting my claims. I don't think what you assume I think. I merely claim that calling people racist, or other hateful things, when they are none of these things is hateful rhetoric. I stand by that.

You read 'not tolerating hate speech' as 'calling people racist', which is part of the problem.

And no, not tolerating hate speech and racism isn't 'hateful rhetoric', which you claimed. It is not. I stand by that.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Why
Do
People
Say
This

Because voting for a racist doesn't necessarily mean the voter is racist himself. It may mean that he is so desperate that voting for the racist is his only lifeline or the only way he can be heard.

 

[Izuna]

Because voting for a racist doesn't necessarily mean the voter is racist himself. It may mean that he is so desperate that voting for the racist is his only lifeline or the only way he can be heard.

"If you don't stop calling this option racist, I'm going to do it to prove that a non-racist can vote in a racist!" ???

 

[More_Badass]

Because voting for a racist doesn't necessarily mean the voter is racist himself. It may mean that he is so desperate that voting for the racist is his only lifeline or the only way he can be heard.

Perhaps for rural/rust belt demographic. For the middle-class voters, a likely reason is that the promise of lower taxes, less regulation, and not having to pay for stuff they don't believe in/care about (i.e. clean energy, etc.) through taxes outweigh those racist/sexist/xenophobic concerns because they may believe Trump was just saying stuff to get elected but won't actually act upon them.

 

[Ventilaator]

Because voting for a racist doesn't necessarily mean the voter is racist himself. It may mean that he is so desperate that voting for the racist is his only lifeline or the only way he can be heard.

Assuming you are 100% correct and I am just unable to see the perspective of those people, doesn't that excuse just a tiny minority of Trump voters though? I'm not actually sure about this, but didn't the stats say that Trump voters were more well off than Hillary voters?

"If you don't stop calling this option racist, I'm going to do it to prove that a non-racist can vote in a racist!" ???

xD

The hypothetical people that people have come up with to explain Trump voters consistently make way less sense than the simple explanation of "I voted for Trump, because mexicans are evil"

 

[Sad Affleck]

Perhaps for rural/rust belt demographic. For the middle-class voters, a likely reason is that the promise of lower taxes, less regulation, and not having to pay for stuff they don't believe in/care about (i.e. clean energy, etc.) with taxes outweigh those racist/sexist/xenophobic concerns because they may believe Trump was just saying stuff to get elected but won't actually act upon them.

Quite possible. As I said earlier most people vote selfishly, based on the issues they personally care about.