RubberJohnny
Banned
How much do people "going with the flow" have in it, compared to those concerned? That is probably the differentiation, people might not care about a smaller sum.
Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens
- Thread starter Raticus79
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Zalusithix
Member
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/citizens/Zalusithix
I think that says enough about how much I have "invested" in it. It doesn't have anything to do with the amount put into the game. It has everything to do with the mindset going in.
RubberJohnny
Banned
OK, but you must have a pain point? What date would you consider the PU hitting beta to be too late? 2020? 2025? This is the thing that never gets answered.
Zalusithix
Member
I don't really have a "pain" point. Like I said, the project could implode tomorrow and I wouldn't be making posts about how everything was for naught. At that point I'd be more interested in figuring out how to salvage what has been accomplished for the good of the community going forward. Heck even an outright failure could result in an interesting post mortem retrospective. I went into this knowing there was a real chance of failure; I didn't even back originally because I wasn't convinced they had the funding to accomplish what they set out to do.
That said, the longer things get drawn out without playable progress, the less likely I am to contribute more funds to the project. As it is, I've contributed far less in this past year than previously. Part of this is a general wind down in my contributions, but another part is hedging my bets until playable progress is made.
You know why. Because naive me simply does not understand game development, but you see the good in me and try your best to teach me wisdom, as hopeless as that may seem.
They said. Would you be willing to make a list of what they said and a list of what they did? They said a whole lot of things. LTI being over, development starting about a year before the kickstarter, increased scope not meaning any delays, nothing for a while and certainly not in advance when Star Marine did not show up when expected.
I wonder how many times they must not do as they say, before you stop believing that what they're doing is anything else than running a mega project headlong into a wall. What do you expect them to show of Star Marine in their anniversary stream? A full blown trailer to make the doubters' eyes bleed? Actual gameplay? Another talking Mark Hamill head? Highly fidelious mocap floor mopping? A release date?
A full blown trailer with actual gameplay and a release date would at this point honestly surprise me. Positively for a change. And that's saying something for this trainwreck. Edit: That is, unless such footage falls hilariously short of their "BDSSE" claim. That would pretty much only confirm what I've been seeing in the project at least since the middle of 2015.
Looks like someone picked up the story from one of Derek's tweets about one of the No Man's Sky designers moving over to Foundry 42.
Thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=224662287
I feel bad for the guy. You could tell from the twitter responses that he just wanted to be left alone.
Thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=224662287
I feel bad for the guy. You could tell from the twitter responses that he just wanted to be left alone.
Everything will be mondai nai.
This is why I straight up dont look look at any SC news or even this thread much and only come back every few months. If I actually invested half as much time following this game for the past 4 years as some of you guys have I wouldve gone crazy already.
I think I said this back in 2014, but I really dont expect to see the game reach beta state until 2018 at the absolute earliest. If we're lucky Squadron 42 will release late 2017. Realistically the game probably wont come out until late 2018 or possibly even 2019. And this is being optimistic.
I think I said this back in 2014, but I really dont expect to see the game reach beta state until 2018 at the absolute earliest. If we're lucky Squadron 42 will release late 2017. Realistically the game probably wont come out until late 2018 or possibly even 2019. And this is being optimistic.
iHaunter
Member
I think it's fine to do as long as you keep your expectations in check.
I expect Open Beta around 2018.
SQ42 late 2017 or early 2018. I think the SC side will probably pick-up once SQ42 is done.
It's funny that so many on SC reddit actually expected a 2016 release. It's white-boxed at least.
Don't bother responding to him. Dude just likes to shit on SC constantly until he retreats back to the Elite Dangerous OT to praise Frontier for adding another meaningless gameplay feature that can be accessed by grinding your way to the top.
iHaunter
Member
Having played ED, I personally think it's a bit mediocre.
I have about 14 hours in, after the 100th Cargo run, all you can really do is drive around the surface of the planets. I still think it has a lot of potential, but it seems like the development has halted almost entirely? I haven't seen much come out from the news or development side.
The main strength SC has over ED imho is the First Person and far better planet-tech. I must admit I was very impressed with the Planet Tech V2. It's almost more than I expected. Sandstorms already being in their build was neat too.
That's not even close to the final version of the planet tech either!
Edit: When is the actual live-stream?
I was about to write a wall of text about how I ran it with integrated hardware once upon a time but no, you're right.
I still expect SC to look noticeably better because, well, it already does 
Oh yesssss.
Absolutely unabashed Elite fanboy here. I could spend hours just babbling about how great Frontier's game design skillz are, how terrifically they handle all things concerning ingame player communication and how fleshed out exploration is in that game. I will never ever say a bad word about Frontier, promise. Seeing as you follow the Elite thread so closely, you of all people know best!4 p.m. EST / 2100 UTC.
I don't know how anyone has got themselves into a position where they can be "against" the production of a video game.
I also don't understand why it taking a long time is a bad thing.
Computer games take a long time, let see just ask everyone's favourite shitlord how things are going with his current game, now entering it's 5th year of delay and being lined up for further delays as he is now prepping it for its 3rd engine change.
See, even tier 1 engineers with a history of producing massive words and and complex game play mechanics, with the financing power of a pretend $200 million personal fortune and massive reach and connections in "the industry" think it's OK to take as long as you need.
I also don't understand why it taking a long time is a bad thing.
Computer games take a long time, let see just ask everyone's favourite shitlord how things are going with his current game, now entering it's 5th year of delay and being lined up for further delays as he is now prepping it for its 3rd engine change.
See, even tier 1 engineers with a history of producing massive words and and complex game play mechanics, with the financing power of a pretend $200 million personal fortune and massive reach and connections in "the industry" think it's OK to take as long as you need.
Anton Sugar
Member
lolwut
What is it with you and mentioning ED any time you rag on Burny? You can insult him without dragging another space game into it. We get it, you don't like ED. You could at least stand to read to Elite thread before you claim that Burny has ever hahahahahahah*PRAISED*hahahahahahah the grindy mechanics of Elite. Aside from our resident grump DrBo42, Burny is one of the more vocal critics of Elite. I could quote posts of his from the last page of the Elite OT alone but you're better off checking it for yourself.
The second content drop of Horizons was actually just released last month. FD definitely has trouble understanding grind and carrot/stick gameplay mechanics, and as of last month, they are behind on their delivery schedule for the next two content drops, but there is zero indication that development has slowed (as in, they're doing less work), let alone halted.
I love Elite, warts and all. However, I envy SC's seamless transitions (one of the biggest thorns in ED's side, IMO), overall greater graphical prowess, and its (preliminary) planet tech. I hesitate to criticize SC, because it isn't even a game yet. I'm curious where the flight model will go and how deep the game's overall mechanics will finally end up being. The concepts are fantastic, but they're just concepts at this point. 3.0 might be when I finally pledge something, but that looks like a year away, based on what y'all are saying.
Ah, another staple defense. Straw man with a dash of false equivalency.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Yeah, I did a double take at that comment.
The sad thing is Elite is probably being maintained by a skeleton crew at this point, two years after launch, but it's still adding features faster than the SC PU. Like all we can point to for the whole year is clothes shopping and a space station and they got crafting and passenger missions and ship-launched fighters and other stuff.
That's why people saying "if people saw the development of a game like GTA they'd think it's slow too", nah, the PU's progress is glacial compared to far smaller dev teams with far smaller budgets. It is absolutely not typical.
It's clear the vast majority of work inside CIG has been going on SQ42 for a long time, and the 3.0 pitch was an obvious "oh shit we need to actually give them something" move. I mean last year you had Erin Roberts saying the expansion to other star systems, which is now 4.0, was going to be 3.0, the original plan is we'd have this fleshing out of the current system as all the 2.X patches, which just didn't happen. Instead we had patches like 2.3 that added nothing other than a few ships - really helping the game come together!
iHaunter
Member
I haven't checked on ED content for a few months, I'll check out the new Horizon's content.
I agree, at this point it's more tech than content, at least from what we've seen. SQ42 has been very hush, I venture that'll be the first instance where SC will feel like a "Game."
Today?
TheVoidDragon
Member
Did you not watch the follow up video they did for the planned SQ42 demo? They were working on it months in advance, they thought they could get it done in time but unexpected problems meant they didn't finish it in time. It was going to be an hour long demo with over 70 characters that was 100% finished, even the parts that players wouldn't actually see.
I don't hate ED, I hate that the developers refuse to make the game fun. Flight mechanics are top notch and the immersion factor is incredible. There's so much that they could do but they keep squandering it. I keep mentioning it as keep wanting it to get better. As of now, it's far too grindy and lacking in many ways for it to be engaging, hence my criticisms.
Regarding Burny, I will admit that I do see him post in the ED OT frequently, so I assumed it was positive. I have him on my ignore list from previous SC comments so I don't read his posts. Now I see that he is just drawn towards all kinds of negativity lol.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
It's really hard to believe stuff like that when there wasn't even some B-roll footage they could've shown. Or the the brain dead AI in the planetside demo.
RubberJohnny
Banned
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize...ating_when_the_stanton_landing_zones_will_be/
I made this post on the subreddit about how long a landing zone takes to go from concept to finished (18 months) and what this means for 3.0's released date (maybe don't expect it before June 2017 at best).
I made this post on the subreddit about how long a landing zone takes to go from concept to finished (18 months) and what this means for 3.0's released date (maybe don't expect it before June 2017 at best).
Heh, thanks Anton.
Ahhh! The beauty of making assumptions about things without having to ever bother to check what they are actually like.
Damn those unexpected problems, leaving us unable to even show so much as any of those 70 characters or any percentage of those hundred percent finished content at all! *Sigh* It's always those unexpected problems creeping up two or three hours before that important presentation you've worked towards for months. (Edit
Despite being weeks away from finishing it, not months or - god forbid- years. And I'm the goddamn bloody tooth fairy!
I only know that adding up two and two, I tend to land in the very general vicinity of four. Not five or five hundred and a cocktail mixing game on top.
Zalusithix
Member
Nah, SC =
Squadron
mercenar1e
Member
the next time they reveal SQ42 will it be a whole new look at the game or are they just going to show off an updated version of the morrow tour?
TheVoidDragon
Member
They said they had more people working on the SQ42 demo than the planetside demo, the AI was pretty poor there but it seems to be something did just for the demo.
They said in the video that they didn't want to show just a bit of progress, but something representative of the actual game that was a full, entirely complete, finished quality gameplay segment. They didn't get that done in time because of problems in the last week or so, but they decided they'd rather postpone it and fix those problems for the game itself, not just fake them for the demo.
They said it would be a full play through of one mission.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
That...doesn't address my point. They allegedly had all these people working on this amazing super polished demo that was complete, amazing and full of great stuff. Sorry it wasn't shown because it broke right before they were supposed to show it.
Do you not see how silly that sounds, even if you take it at face value. The fact they couldn't even cut a quick snip of footage in case they failed before the presentation is troubling (again if we believe them). That they didn't plan a contingency knowing they were working down to the wire. The other point is faking stuff in demonstrations is not something that is beneath CIG. They do it with every showing, like the totally not scripted sandworm sequence "oh it never did that before." Roberts is a bullshitter, if you support the game you have to accept that or the constant doubling back on what was said will drive you mad.
mercenar1e
Member
If everything at CitizenCon worked out how could they play through a full mission without AI in the game? Something doesn't seem to be adding up.
They stated it was held back due to last minute animation issues but i feel it's much more than that.
Still no 2.6 or 3.0 either and it's missed the intended release window by a country mile. A 2019-2020 full release seems so much more likely now. By that time they're either going to continue the pace of backer funding, take out a loan or work with a publisher to finish development.
Leading up to CitCon2016 most everyone was working on either "Homestead" or the SQ42 "demo". The SQ42 demo was never complete, and they were working long hours to try and get it to a presentable state, but finally a couple of days before CitCon they realised they would never make it and pulled the plug to have everyone focus on ensuring "Homestead" was ready. I'm doubtful the "demo" they wanted to show was going to be all that amazing and full of great stuff, as CR seems to be very guarded against spoilers.
Regardless, they pulled the plug and that was that because CR didn't want to show something that was less than what HE wanted to show. We all might have been eager for even "B-roll" footage, and sometimes CR doesn't mind showing less than optimal stuff such as the "Morrow" tour from last year, but this year he seemed to want to make a bigger splash by showing just how further along their tech has advanced from last year. My impression is that Sean Tracey getting up on stage for his presentation was their contingency plan for cutting SQ42. Towards the end of his presentation some have speculated that there were a few little teasers about what might have been shown in the SQ42 demo... but who knows.
As far as the sand worm sequence goes I thought when CR said "oh it never did that before" he was talking about how it had glitched out and that sequence ended up showing twice in the live stream. In the final video on youtube they cut the duplicate sequence although I'm not sure if they edited out CR saying that, which would seem out of place if someone only saw the youtube cut and not the live presentation.
Yes, oh how very sorry we are. When we hyped up our 700$ spaceship .jpg sale before the show, nobody could have possibly predicted we wouldn't be able to even throw scraps at you a week later. But we made a sales trailer for our theory crafted .jpg to compensate, that should appease your appetite for space opera a bit, shouldn't it?
There's more of a tragic comedy here than any playable space opera they could show, and it's of the meta kind unfortunately.
He certainly did that. Only not quiet in the way he might have intended according to your speculation about what goes on in Chris Roberts' head. He's made sure that some people are waking up having their personal "emperor's new clothes" moment. He also made quiet sure that more people stop happily ejaculating the contents of their wallet at the monitor every time he drags his mug in front of a camera during their talk show charade, but will actually wait to see some of the shiny stuff he fabulates about in playable form, before giving them more money.
In a way I think he's done the project a lot of good. Some people are finally doing a long overdue reality check. What do they promise vs. what have they actually delivered and what can they realistically be expected to deliver based on that.
That is quite the narrative you are trying to spin there based on my idle speculation... I don't play those games, and will bow out with a simple thank you for reading my post.
Zalusithix
Member
I know you're a fan of hyperbole Burny, but you've stated this a number of times now, and it's a bit dismissive to call the last concept sale a "spaceship.jpg". Concept sales back in the day might have been little more than an artist's drawing, but as the ship pipelines have been ironed out over time, the concept sales have been for ships that are increasingly further along in production.
White boxing.
And beyond.
Sure it's not flyable (systems aren't even in to handle a ship like that yet), but to call it a jpg is really downplaying it. Even in the unfinished state, there's probably more actual modeling done than your average Elite ship. ;P Oh, and it's the Polaris, not the Idris (from one of your previous posts that I didn't feel like pointing out).
You know very well what I mean, so do we even need to discuss this?
Yes, it's dismissive and hyperbolic on purpose. Take ".jpg sale" as short form for: Selling something they have somewhere between concept drawing and partly finished 3D model stage without any readily developed ingame content and mechanics to go along, including a hangar ready ship model (calling that "content" is a bit rich already) with a whole lot of "Use" prompt points or - heavens forbid - the network technology to even have more than two of those eventually fully crewed ships in one PU instance. Let's not even talk about flyable. Do I really have to mention AI passengers and flight attendants all with health simulation and cocktail mixing games again? Mining? Cargo Hauling? Exploration?
I'll stick to using ".jpg sale" as shorthand form for the above for as long as they don't release the ship fantasies that were sold in that manner within a reasonable timeframe from the sale as playable content to backers including the game mechanics that give purpose to those theory crafted expensive digital fantasy items.
Zalusithix
Member
I know what you mean, but given the amount of misinformation (and disinformation) out there on Star Citizen, I'm not too keen on hyperbole that can be taken at face value by less informed people. In the very least I feel compelled to point it out for any random lurkers out there. I get enough headaches from people claiming there's a $15,000 ship (singular) in SC. I don't need people taking your hyperbole as fact adding to that headache count. =P
TheVoidDragon
Member
So for those here who seem to be complaining about the SQ42 demo not being shown at Citizencon and think that is a bad sign that means things must be in a terrible state and worse than they claim, how will you react if the demo is actually shown tomorrow for the anniversary livestream? It's not definite but a while back they did it could be shown then.
iHaunter
Member
Well, I'm not that worried about SQ42 to be honest.
I think they should've let us know FAR sooner that it wasn't going to be ready, looks like they've known for months.
But most of it is already white-boxed, i.e. built out. They're waiting on tech, assets, and bug/polishing.
They mentioned it could be on one of the two streams they're having. Tomorrow should be interesting though I'm reserving my hype.
I think we'd hear about it by now, if the SQ42 demo was indeed scheduled for tomorrow. Xmas livestream seems the more likely candidate.
In any case, it wouldn't be enough. Short of SC living up (and then some) to every single bullet point, announced or simply expected, nothing will ever be good enough.
Fair enough,
Very happily surprised. If it's not a complete eyewash demo as both the Gamescom and Citizencon demos were. Those were trying to sell us heavily scripted demo fetch quests as (targeted
) MMO content. Only the actual game they showed was about as janky as we know from the current "Alpha 2.x" release and didn't even contain so much as the second "M" from "MMO" in the latter's case. It'd actually have been more convicing if they tried to sell such missions as Squadron 42 content.Or is anybody realistcally expecting them to fill a hundred Star Systems with a couple of thousand of multiplayer-ed scripted quests such as those in the two demos sometime within the next two decades measured by CIG's current rate of progress? Quiet apart from the actual played footage not looking like it's able to compete with any other high profile shooter wihtout a massive load of work put into it?
Then there's of course the quality of such a demo. Going by Roberts' hubris and behavior, it better be the best shit ever, otherwise 130$ Mio. milked out of backers and five years dev time by his account will make it look like a mighy poor showing if put into context.
TheVoidDragon
Member
What are you basing that on? They couldn't have told us sooner because they didn't know. It was only a few days before Citizencon (while they were still working on it) that they realized they wouldn't get the remaining problems sorted out in time. Before that they were pretty confident it would be done in time.
mercenar1e
Member
i believe they said that AI wasn't in the game for a few months and animation issues appears on every monthly round up. that's currently one of Star Marines blocker.. i don't know what they plan on showing tomorrow. ships maybe? 2.6 isn't fully fleshed out yet and they just recently started revamping the flight model. its going to be an average live stream but who knows.. if they show the full SQ42 mission it might be one of the best.
everything that they said would be released in 2016 looks like it might be pushed into 2017 and the updates beyond 3.0 would fall into 2018. when exactly is the game getting out of alpha?
how much of the multiplayer universe are they finished with? how much of it have they shown? it feels like for all the "transparency" there is soooo much that we just dont know about.
iHaunter
Member
They couldn't even get a single mission to show for CitCon and that was an all hands for almost a month.
That's an indication that the actual game is FAAAAR from ready. I look forward to hopefully see a the mission they were prepping for CitCon in one of the live-streams.
Again, I don't mind the delay, I have other things I can spend my time on.