Nintendo Switch Dev Kit Stats Leaked? Cortex A57, 4GB RAM, 32GB Storage, Multi-Touch.

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Most developers aren't single platform developers like ND, or engine developers like DICE though (as I said in another topic).
Most studios are content producers, not trying to push the technical envelope.

When the best selling and best critically received games are squarely iterative 360/PS3 games - MGSV, Destiny, GTAV, Fallout, Skyrim, COD, FIFA, Madden, et al - and the end results are 'good enough' for consumers to buy in the millions, there is little compulsion to raise production costs further without commensurate sales benefits.
And as I said in the other thread, they're free to license other engines if they don't wanna put the extra work in.

I didn't say that they should push the technical envelope. All I'm saying is that high-level API programming is unacceptable for consoles.

Should I be satisfied with lazy ports like Just Cause 3 or AC Unity for example?

All I want is to have stable 30 fps as the bare minimum. They don't need to push any envelope. Just make sure that your games are optimized to run decently.
 
In my opinion, the CPU is so extremely weak that it will limit the GPU and make ports of PS4 games impossible. Also the system should have at least 500GB of storage if Nintendo wants to sell downloads.

Really? it has been told thats better than the jaguar.
 
Once again we have someone who can't handle the Switch actually being treated like a console. The PS4, PS4 Pro, and XB1 all go through DigitalFoundry comparisons and get criticized for lower resolution output or textures. Well if the Switch wants to compete at that level then it has to run the same gauntlet. The card and storage size means that the Switch will always be technically inferior to XB1 and PS4 games.

Btw, one of the reasons the Wii U failed was that it couldn't compete with the technical quality of its console competitors the PS3 and 360. So yea it's kind of important.

The Wii never got brought into these conversations with Digital Foundry. Was the Wii not a console?

The Wii U barely got brought into these conversations with Digital Foundry. Was the Wii U not a console? The power of a console has nothing to do with whether or not it qualifies or not and doesn't really matter in the first place. As Matt pointed out, it's something different in the same vein that an iPad is neither a phone nor a computer.

You were arguing on the last page that the Switch isn't a console and now you're arguing that it will fail because it not be able to produce graphics with the fidelity of a PS4/XBO. I'd suggest you stop changing your argument when one falters.
 
The Switch wants to be a hybrid. Most people think t\s the right next move for Nintendo. It will bring a lot more games than previous Nintendo consoles and handhelds did to your livingroom, or your backpack. That's it. You can wish for magic powder dust which makes it the best at everything, but for the rest of us, we know that certain advantages must be balanced with certain compromises. Your absurd hang-up on the semantics of this is at best foolish.

Hey I'm the one saying the Switch isn't a console. You should be arguing with the people trying to say it is.

Uhhhh.... you're the one saying the Switch has "already failed" because no HDD.
An HDD is not a game.
I didn't say the Switch failed because of no HDD. I say the Switch fails as a console because it has no HDD, small memory card size used for game delivery, and not enough reduction in cost to offset those limitations. If you properly treat the Switch as a mobile device then it compares quite favorable. However, if you insist on calling it a console, then I'm going to judge it as I would any other console, and by that metric it fails.

It's pretty simple. The Switch is a mobile device that allows you to easily play its games on a TV screen. It'll probably do fine in sales. It'll do similar if not slightly better numbers than the 3DS. That slightly better part is due to its hybrid nature, but the additional sales will in no way come close to the sales of a separate true console that was successful.
 
c9944caef143a54dd04932ec830ea333b666e73dc61bc5267dc7a0316ba08168.jpg


^ Where would you put the Switch CPU in this graph?

Keep in mind that we're talking about single-threaded performance (IPC). Multi-threaded code is a whole different ballpark and an absolute necessity these days:

https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/794453592887410690

We already know that PS4/XB1 allow access to 7 Jaguar cores for games. Switch will have 4 cores and 1 core will be required for the OS.


It's hard to say because I am not that familiar with that specific benchmark. I am basing my statement on a comparison of Cortex A15 vs Jaguar that I read several years ago. 1.8 Ghz A15 was close to a 1.6 GHz Jaguar and beat it in some benchmarks.

A57 is roughly 25-30% faster than A15 when running the same benchmarks. It also has the advantage of the ARM v8 (64-bit) instruction set which delivers massive performance gains in some scenarios.

So I think it's very clear that A57 will have a single-threaded advantage, although I am not sure how to quantify it.

Here's a comparison of A15 vs A57:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8718/the-samsung-galaxy-note-4-exynos-review/6
Here's a comparison of ARM 32 bit vs 64 bit:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4
Edit: here's a comparison of A15 vs Jaguar:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/SoC-Shootout-x86-vs-ARM.99496.0.html

Edit2: that tweet you refer to is actually about the limits of performance gains that can be achieved by throwing more cores/threads at the problem.
 
Since there is some good discussion about the CPU going on (and not about anything else at the moment) I'd like to remind people that the specs in the OP have been confirmed false essentially by Nvidia themselves, when they said the Switch uses a custom Tegra SoC, since the specs in the OP are pretty much for a standard TX1. Not to mention the source of the specs in the OP claimed Nvidia was not involved with the NX a week before posting this "leak."

So 4 CPU cores has in no way been confirmed. In fact, LCGeek indicated (last Spring) that the NX (Switch now) CPU is noticeably stronger than the XB1 and PS4 CPUs overall, which might actually put it ahead of the PS4 Pro CPU too. I don't believe that was referring to core for core performance- rather overall CPU performance.
 
The Wii never got brought into these conversations with Digital Foundry. Was the Wii not a console?

The Wii U barely got brought into these conversations with Digital Foundry. Was the Wii U not a console? The power of a console has nothing to do with whether or not it qualifies or not and doesn't really matter in the first place. As Matt pointed out, it's something different in the same vein that an iPad is neither a phone nor a computer.

You were arguing on the last page that the Switch isn't a console and now you're arguing that it will fail because it not be able to produce graphics with the fidelity of a PS4/XBO. I'd suggest you stop changing your argument when one falters.

I've said quite a few times now that I don't care if you call the Switch a console or not. I just insist that you pick one and stick to it. If you call it a console then it gets compared as every other console gets compared, DigitalFoundry included. If you call it a mobile device than I agree that all the console comparisons are meaningless.

The Wii was a one off fad that successfully charted its own course as a motion controlled game delivery system. While it was a console, it most certainly was not in the same category as the PS3 and 360. You could try to make the case that the Switch also blazes a new trail as a hybrid, but I find that a meaningless category since it is exactly like a mobile device with HDMI output.

The Wii U was a failed console which is exactly what I'm calling the Switch if you insist on calling it a console. The Wii U is a perfect example of the problems of treating the Switch as a console. It was too close in price to PS4, but didn't have the specs to match up. It also could not reduce that price because it had to include the extra cost of its gamepad.

The Switch is in the exact same situation. It's not powerful enough to compete head-to-head with the PS4/XB1, and it can't properly reduce its price because it has to include the price of it screen, battery, and small form factor. All of those are costs that the PS4/XB1 don't have to worry about. As a console the Switch is overpriced and an underperformer, which btw would be true of any mobile device compared to a console.
 
I've said quite a few times now that I don't care if you call the Switch a console or not. I just insist that you pick one and stick to it. If you call it a console then it gets compared as every other console gets compared, DigitalFoundry included. If you call it a mobile device than I agree that all the console comparisons are meaningless.

The Wii was a one off fad that successfully charted its own course as a motion controlled game delivery system. While it was a console, it most certainly was not in the same category as the PS3 and 360. You could try to make the case that the Switch also blazes a new trail as a hybrid, but I find that a meaningless category since it is exactly like a mobile device with HDMI output.

The Wii U was a failed console which is exactly what I'm calling the Switch if you insist on calling it a console. The Wii U is a perfect example of the problems of treating the Switch as a console. It was too close in price to PS4, but didn't have the specs to match up. It also could not reduce that price because it had to include the extra cost of its gamepad.

The Switch is in the exact same situation. It's not powerful enough to compete head-to-head with the PS4/XB1, and it can't properly reduce its price because it has to include the price of it screen, battery, and small form factor. All of those are costs that the PS4/XB1 don't have to worry about. As a console the Switch is overpriced and an underperformer, which btw would be true of any mobile device compared to a console.

And the switch doesn't have to worry about the costs of a hard drive and an optical drive, yes it has the cost of flash storage but even in just a year or so I'd imagine the larger (presumably 128gb) option will be a trivial cost
 
c9944caef143a54dd04932ec830ea333b666e73dc61bc5267dc7a0316ba08168.jpg


^ Where would you put the Switch CPU in this graph?

Keep in mind that we're talking about single-threaded performance (IPC). Multi-threaded code is a whole different ballpark and an absolute necessity these days:

https://twitter.com/SebAaltonen/status/794453592887410690

We already know that PS4/XB1 allow access to 7 Jaguar cores for games. Switch will have 4 cores and 1 core will be required for the OS.

I really thought a corei7 would be a lot more than twice as powerful as a Jaguar. On this graph, current gen consoles doesn't look that bad. I also thought Xbox one would be better than PS4.
 
I really thought a corei7 would be a lot more than twice as powerful as a Jaguar. On this graph, current gen consoles doesn't look that bad. I also thought Xbox one would be better than PS4.

I'm not sure what year that was released, comparing something to a "Core i7" is like saying "I have the black Dell", but maybe it was a first gen i7? Or a mobile part? Who knows with that little detail on the graph.


4 A4-5000 CPUs, which are 4 Jaguar cores at 1.5GHz, get around 3000 in GB2:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/search?utf8=✓&q=A4-5000+APU

An i5-6600, over 12,000
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/2617358

If that graph is regulating by clock speed, even the i5 would still be a touch over twice as fast, an i7 of the same generation even more.
 
The Switch is in the exact same situation. It's not powerful enough to compete head-to-head with the PS4/XB1, and it can't properly reduce its price because it has to include the price of it screen, battery, and small form factor.

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I really thought a corei7 would be a lot more than twice as powerful as a Jaguar. On this graph, current gen consoles doesn't look that bad. I also thought Xbox one would be better than PS4.

The title of that graph suggests it is purely measuring decompression of textures, which, yes, games do, but is not exactly the most meaningful measurement of a CPU.
 
I'm not sure what year that was released, comparing something to a "Core i7" is like saying "I have the black Dell", but maybe it was a first gen i7? Or a mobile part? Who knows with that little detail on the graph.


4 A4-5000 CPUs, which are 4 Jaguar cores at 1.5GHz, get around 3000 in GB2:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/search?utf8=✓&q=A4-5000+APU

An i5-6600, over 12,000
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/2617358

If that graph is regulating by clock speed, even the i5 would still be a touch over twice as fast, an i7 of the same generation even more.

An i5-6600 being twice as fast as an 8 core jaguar doesn't make the jaguar look that bad.
 
We already know that PS4/XB1 allow access to 7 Jaguar cores for games.
Actually they don't. They have 6 cores available to games, plus one core of limited availability, so it cannot execute symmetrical workloads.

Switch will have 4 cores and 1 core will be required for the OS.
Source?
 
You guys are delusional if you expect 8 full cores in a mobile device... a big.LITTLE setup is possible though.

There's something called "thermal envelope". You don't see Apple cramming too many cores in their SoCs.

And last but not least, an octa-core Jaguar @ 1.6 GHz consumes around 30 watts. Bumping it to 2 GHz increases power consumption to 50 watts (at 28nm). That certainly doesn't classify as a "tablet" CPU in my book. Tablets don't consume more than 10 watts for the entire system (SoC + RAM + screen).
 
I've said quite a few times now that I don't care if you call the Switch a console or not. I just insist that you pick one and stick to it. If you call it a console then it gets compared as every other console gets compared, DigitalFoundry included. If you call it a mobile device than I agree that all the console comparisons are meaningless.

The Wii was a one off fad that successfully charted its own course as a motion controlled game delivery system. While it was a console, it most certainly was not in the same category as the PS3 and 360. You could try to make the case that the Switch also blazes a new trail as a hybrid, but I find that a meaningless category since it is exactly like a mobile device with HDMI output.

The Wii U was a failed console which is exactly what I'm calling the Switch if you insist on calling it a console. The Wii U is a perfect example of the problems of treating the Switch as a console. It was too close in price to PS4, but didn't have the specs to match up. It also could not reduce that price because it had to include the extra cost of its gamepad.

The Switch is in the exact same situation. It's not powerful enough to compete head-to-head with the PS4/XB1, and it can't properly reduce its price because it has to include the price of it screen, battery, and small form factor. All of those are costs that the PS4/XB1 don't have to worry about. As a console the Switch is overpriced and an underperformer, which btw would be true of any mobile device compared to a console.

It isn't exactly like a mobile device with an HDMI output.

The Switch is being expressly designed from a hardware and software perspective to adopt both portable and home console experiences seamlessly. More than just an optional feature like an HDMI out.

One of the main aspects is the dock will likely supply power as well as an HDMI out. While it's not confirmed, this will likely allow higher resolution outputs for televisions with greater fidelity than 720 p.

The joy-con controllers act as they do to functionally support the hybrid nature. They are able to be moved between the tablet and the more traditional joy-con grip controller set up. The pro controller is also offered for an even more traditional home console set up.

Local multiplayer is also a staple of home consoles and will likely be present here with split-screen experiences like Mario Kart and other titles. Previously, portables with HDMI out did not support that kind of one screen local couch multiplayer, because the games usually didn't provide it.

The software itself is providing both home console like experiences, like Breath of the wild, along with traditionally handheld experiences, like Pokemon. From Nintendo's development perspective, they are not drawing a line here between producing console-like larger experiences and smaller bite size experiences for mobile. We'll likely continue to see both kinds.

I don't understand why you are telling people to adopt such a binary stance in identifying the switch. It's enforcing an oversimplification on a product that's being designed around both kinds of play, while balancing power and affordability.
 
Good luck convincing publishers to use cards that big to sell games in. Few cents for each piece of plastic they call Blu-Ray (that you can order in small or big quantities and get repeated orders with a very quick turnaround) vs something in the tens or hundred+ dollars for the kind of cartridge you are talking about (and quite likely a much slower turnaround time from order to delivery and issues with minimum order size)... not really feasible.
That's the reason DS failed, it uses those damn cartridges. Oh wait!

But that's an exception, look at that null 3DS support because of them cartridges. Oh wait!

And those games were less expensive than games on Blu Ray.

Stop making ridiculous assertions. This are flash media cards, not cartridges, and right now, they are a better media for consoles and there is no turning back from that, as has been discussed a million times on GAF.

A 16 GB card makes sense this year for publishers to put their games on. Next year they will be 32 GB, after that 64 GB and then 128 GB, far surpassing optical media at a speed it can't match.


The future is flash, optical media is worse in every sense and irrelevant for gaming because it can't be used. The WiiU is the only current console that can run its games from the optical drive.
 
That's the reason DS failed, it uses those damn cartridges. Oh wait!

But that's an exception, look at that null 3DS support because of them cartridges. Oh wait!

And those games were less expensive than games on Blu Ray.

Stop making ridiculous assertions. This are flash media cards, not cartridges, and right now, they are a better media for consoles and there is no turning back from that, as has been discussed a million times on GAF.

A 16 GB card makes sense this year for publishers to put their games on. Next year they will be 32 GB, after that 64 GB and then 128 GB, far surpassing optical media at a speed it can't match.


The future is flash, optical media is worse in every sense and irrelevant for gaming because it can't be used. The WiiU is the only current console that can run its games from the optical drive.
You're confusing flash/NAND with Mask ROM (that's what Nintendo uses).

NAND is rewriteable and it has a 10-year data retention rating.

ps: The future is digital, not physical (optical/ROM).
 
About those cards...Good luck getting PS4/XB1 sized games on them.

Infinite Warfare is 44.6 GB on PlayStation 4, while Modern Warfare Remastered is 37.2 GB.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/call-of-duty-infinite-warfare-ps4-xbox-one-and-pc-/1100-6444970/
If the Switch gets ports of the other console games, they would have to be massively scaled back just to fit on the physical media. Once again, that would be understandable for a mobile device, but for a console it is laughable.

Oh, and what about digital delivery, yet another expected feature of a modern home console. Either the Switch won't have it and fail yet again in the head-to-head console feature battle, or the storage limitation issue is still there as large as ever.

Can't Nintendo use extra compression for these games? I think I've read somewhere they do so already.
 
Not sure why this thread ended up so messed up. The NS should have no problems running any of the modern games. Storage shouldn't be a problem, either. Buy more storage space if you're in serious need of more space. This is no different from what we have going on now. I'm bummed out about the HDD issue, but I hope in the future they relent and allow us to connect up USB 3.0 drives.

Either way, the worry shouldn't be whether or not the NS can play the games. It should be whether or not the games will get ported in the first place. It can run them, but it's just a matter of whether or not publishers want to port them over. I hope they do, because another competitive system on the market is better for all of us.
 
I don't think ANY of them did by simply trying to fit their 360/pc/ps3 work.
That's exactly what I hope they'll do, and one of the reasons I consider the Wii the best system Nintendo has made in recent years.

Also, 'another' Xbox one and PS4 isn't what people want, people just want to be able to play those games while getting the immense exclusives Nintendo systems yield.
And that's an unreasonable expectation nowadays, I think.

Nintendo simply isn't appealing to a certain userbase, no matter how powerful is the hardware they adopt, and quite frankly, for that to happen they'd need to become an almost completely different company, one that I'm not sure I'd be able to appreciate.

Now, there surely is some overlap in genres (sports games immediately come to mind) and that's the kind of third party support that I believe Nintendo should try to get. But you just won't get your average GTA fan turning into a Switch believer overnight. Thinking otherwise is foolish to say the least.

Can Nintendo change people perception in the mid to long run? Who knows, maybe. As I said before, it currently seems quite a difficult task (unless Sony and/or MS commit suicide, which isn't that out of the question).

But I'm still convinced not only that a mainstream, but-not-Sony-like-mainstream lineup can have a place in this industry. No, I also think it should have a place in an industry so polarized like the one we have today, so that gamers can have a true, healthy alternative platform. The sooner we get out of the AAA-centric market the better if you ask me (AAA by itself is fine, mind you... but a AAA-only market, definitely isn't, not with current budgets; the same is true for the hardware IMHO, there's a reason we got APUs on XB1/PS4 instead of another Cell).
 
Can't Nintendo use extra compression for these games? I think I've read somewhere they do so already.
You are thinking about the audio - these days a lot of companies use uncompressed audio because it's slightly higher quality than MP3, and that takes up a TON of space. So yeah, Switch games could use MP3, and don't need 4k content (the examples given were designed for 4k machines). Also, those specific games are the exception, not the norm - they were called out in articles for being so gigantic.

But it doesn't matter anyways, because flash cards can easily get to 128GB or more, the 16GB "limit" are just the very first cards Nintendo is releasing. And of course you can get 128GB micro-SD cards for cheap for digital downloads.
 
You are thinking about the audio - these days a lot of companies use uncompressed audio because it's slightly higher quality than MP3, and that takes up a TON of space. So yeah, Switch games could use MP3, and don't need 4k content (the examples given were designed for 4k machines). Also, those specific games are the exception, not the norm - they were called out in articles for being so gigantic.

But it doesn't matter anyways, because flash cards can easily get to 128GB or more, the 16GB "limit" are just the very first cards Nintendo is releasing.

We haven't even heard that 16gb is a "limit" for the first cards
 
I realise the onboard wasn't retail but you were talking about UFS storage instead of MicroSD I thought. That is where we can get benefit if Nintendo provides it. I don't care if the storage is internal or not so long as they provide some sort of cost efficient method of expansion. That is, I do NOT want to pay US$60 to get what I consider to be sub-standard storage (128-256GB). $10-20 maybe but given the competition and what they offer now (1TB IIRC) Nintendo need to come to the party.

I should clarify. UFS can refer to two different things. It is an embedded flash memory solution used in high end phones offering higher performance than the cheaper alternative (eMMC), however there's now also a memory card standard which uses largely the same interface and is (slightly confusingly) also called UFS. The embedded variety should probably be referred to as eUFS to reduce confusion, but that's not a term I've seen used.

Whether we're talking about internal storage or expandable storage, Nintendo still have limited options, none of which provide for vast storage capacity at low prices. They could conceivably use full-size SD cards instead of MicroSD, but from a cursory glance at prices that would only save people perhaps 10% or so.

I don't think anyone complains about the PS4 or XBO as far as I know because it's just expected that a good, solid gaming console has good storage. People need to stop giving Nintendo free passes.

Of course they're not complaining, as PS4 and XBO have mandatory installs, so they're going to use up that space whether they like it or not. Those hard-drives also contribute far less to the overall cost of the machine than a large pool of flash memory would for Switch.

I'm not giving Nintendo a free pass, I'm just recognising that it's both technologically and financially impossible for them to include 500GB+ of storage in a device like Switch, so I'm not going to expect them to do something they (a) can't do and (b) have much less need to do, due to the lack of mandatory installs.

One thing you also need to take into account is patches which can be pretty large for the big games (10+GB) and we'd also need to know how they will handle filesystem access to assets and whether asset bundles all need to be in a relative path which would me having to duplicate some or all of the cart contents to storage if you patch.

Nintendo has been handling this for years now without issue on Wii U, so I would assume they're well versed in how to minimise file duplication in patches. Patch sizes that big are both very uncommon and likely exacerbated by the same practices of using uncompressed assets as full games are.

I'll guess we'll have to wait and see but I don't necessarily think assets will be much smaller than PS4 as the Switch is meant to do similar resolutions as far as we know. I would be surprised if it was designed to be a 720p machine on a large TV in this day and age. But who knows.

Additionally when it comes to effort, developers would rather not bother if it's a headache (Unless of course Switch sells gangbusters) especially given the sales for core games on Nintendo hardware.

Given the reported 3.2GB of usable RAM vs 5-6GB, I'd expect texture resolutions to be somewhat lower on Switch versus the other consoles. And it's not as if there's enormous effort involved in converting WAV to MP3 or AAC.

The two questions I have around UFS cards are : 1) Where can you buy them as a quick google pulled up nothing for me. 2) If they're brand new I'd guess they'd be expensive no?

You can't buy them, as there aren't any devices which support them yet. If Nintendo did support them with Switch (not that I'm expecting them to), they'd potentially be the first device to do so, although the Galaxy S8 releasing around the same time will probably also support them. They're likely more expensive than MicroSD, although the prices should come down over time as more devices support them and more manufacturers start producing them.

About those cards...Good luck getting PS4/XB1 sized games on them.

Infinite Warfare is 44.6 GB on PlayStation 4, while Modern Warfare Remastered is 37.2 GB.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/call-of-duty-infinite-warfare-ps4-xbox-one-and-pc-/1100-6444970/
If the Switch gets ports of the other console games, they would have to be massively scaled back just to fit on the physical media. Once again, that would be understandable for a mobile device, but for a console it is laughable.

Oh, and what about digital delivery, yet another expected feature of a modern home console. Either the Switch won't have it and fail yet again in the head-to-head console feature battle, or the storage limitation issue is still there as large as ever.

I feel like I should bold this, as people seem to ignore it every time it's pointed out:

Switch game cards, without question, will allow for larger storage capacity than PS4/XBO Blu-Rays

It's basic progression of solid state storage capacity. Nintendo should absolutely be able to offer publishers 64GB and 128GB game cards in 2017. I don't expect anyone to use 128GB cards, because games simply don't need it, and I don't even expect 64GB to be common. And before you start typing "but they'll be so expensive everyone will have to use 8GB cards!", a 128GB card in 2017 will be no more expensive than the 256MB card used for Archaic Sealed Heat in 2007 was or the 4GB card used in 2012 for RE: Revelations. Both of those were third party games selling for $40, by the way.

I'd also like to point out that you've literally given an example of a game bundle which doesn't fit on a single Blu-Ray but could fit on a single Switch game card.
 
The Switch is in the exact same situation. It's not powerful enough to compete head-to-head with the PS4/XB1, and it can't properly reduce its price because it has to include the price of it screen, battery, and small form factor. All of those are costs that the PS4/XB1 don't have to worry about. As a console the Switch is overpriced and an underperformer, which btw would be true of any mobile device compared to a console.

Amen to that.
 
Switch game cards, without question, will allow for larger storage capacity than PS4/XBO Blu-Rays

It's basic progression of solid state storage capacity. Nintendo should absolutely be able to offer publishers 64GB and 128GB game cards in 2017. I don't expect anyone to use 128GB cards, because games simply don't need it, and I don't even expect 64GB to be common. And before you start typing "but they'll be so expensive everyone will have to use 8GB cards!", a 128GB card in 2017 will be no more expensive than the 256MB card used for Archaic Sealed Heat in 2007 was or the 4GB card used in 2012 for RE: Revelations. Both of those were third party games selling for $40, by the way.

I'd also like to point out that you've literally given an example of a game bundle which doesn't fit on a single Blu-Ray but could fit on a single Switch game card.

This needs to be repeated again and again, since it seems like people expect Switch gamecards to be something like the N64 cartridges, and they're not.

It's not going to be such a big deal, i'm sure 64gb cards are going to be produced (and even bigger than that) if necessary.
And let's not forget that there probably not going to be any mandatory installs, so another plus for the gamecards, just plug and play.
 
I feel like I should bold this, as people seem to ignore it every time it's pointed out:

Switch game cards, without question, will allow for larger storage capacity than PS4/XBO Blu-Rays

It's basic progression of solid state storage capacity. Nintendo should absolutely be able to offer publishers 64GB and 128GB game cards in 2017. I don't expect anyone to use 128GB cards, because games simply don't need it, and I don't even expect 64GB to be common. And before you start typing "but they'll be so expensive everyone will have to use 8GB cards!", a 128GB card in 2017 will be no more expensive than the 256MB card used for Archaic Sealed Heat in 2007 was or the 4GB card used in 2012 for RE: Revelations. Both of those were third party games selling for $40, by the way.

I'd also like to point out that you've literally given an example of a game bundle which doesn't fit on a single Blu-Ray but could fit on a single Switch game card.

I'll help you repeat the bolded.

But regarding the production costs for a hypothetical 128GB card, that is very very reassuring if true. I'm curious how you came to that conclusion though (not that I question it).


The only real issue I can see with storage on Switch is for people who want to go all digital. Considering Nintendo has emphasized how important and lucrative digital sales are to them I am definitely expecting one of the yet-to-be-revealed features about the Switch to address this. Personally I'm thinking SCD accessories positioned purely as storage devices, but that's based on pure speculation on my part.
 
I really thought a corei7 would be a lot more than twice as powerful as a Jaguar. On this graph, current gen consoles doesn't look that bad. I also thought Xbox one would be better than PS4.

This is probably an Ivy Bridge i7 at the same clock speed with hyperthreading enabled (which slightly reduces single-threaded performance if anything else is running.
 
All you need for digital downloads is micro-SD. You can get a 128GB micro-SD card for $40. If it fills up, buy a second one (they sell larger ones but it's really not worth it when you can hot-swap em).
 
You can't buy them, as there aren't any devices which support them yet. If Nintendo did support them with Switch (not that I'm expecting them to), they'd potentially be the first device to do so, although the Galaxy S8 releasing around the same time will probably also support them. They're likely more expensive than MicroSD, although the prices should come down over time as more devices support them and more manufacturers start producing them.

I should note that Samsung stated back in June that they're working with "various partners" to implement card slots that support both microSD cards and UFS cards, so if Nintendo wanted in on UFS, a multi-compatible card slot isn't out of the question, and I doubt it'd be much more expensive than a regular microSD slot. UFS support would be enormously beneficial, even if the cards will likely start off more expensive, the read/write speeds being close to SSD levels would be worth the cost. Considering Samsung would be eager to give consumers a reason to actually buy the damn things, I doubt they wouldn't accommodate Nintendo as much as possible.
 
As long as the OS uses very little, then that *should* be enough.

Many gaming PCs ran fine with 4GB RAM (and some still do). PS4 had 4GB planned until close to finalization IIRC.
The PS4 has 5GB for games and I remember a mod (someone with a red name) on this forum saying that an SDK update increased it to 6GB or something.

Switch will most likely allocate at least 1GB to the OS. Wii U OS was pretty barebones and it required the same amount of RAM. I expect the Switch OS to be more feature-heavy (cross game chat, achievements, perhaps DVR etc.)

Comparing consoles with PCs is pointless, since PCs have discrete RAM/VRAM. hUMA/HSA saves a lot of RAM thanks to zero-copy.
 
The PS4 has 5GB for games and I remember a mod (someone with a red name) on this forum saying that an SDK update increased it to 6GB or something.

Switch will most likely allocate at least 1GB to the OS. Wii U OS was pretty barebones and it required the same amount of RAM. I expect the Switch OS to be more feature-heavy (cross game chat, achievements, perhaps DVR etc.)

Comparing consoles with PCs is pointless, since PCs have discrete RAM/VRAM. hUMA/HSA saves a lot of RAM thanks to zero-copy.

I think someone posted a few pages back that the NS has 4GB of RAM, but 3.2GB is available for games. I guess they figure they don't need as much for the OS this time around.
 
The Switch is in the exact same situation. It's not powerful enough to compete head-to-head with the PS4/XB1, and it can't properly reduce its price because it has to include the price of it screen, battery, and small form factor. All of those are costs that the PS4/XB1 don't have to worry about.

Uh, aside from the battery as batteries typically don't reduce in price, every other component will reduce in price as any other console would assuming sales are brisk. The Wii U gamepad had custom hardware and the volume of sales meant the screen price never drastically went down. The atypical CPU and GPU also harmed cost reduction measures as there wasn't an easy to bring them down to smaller fabrications. It couldn't be justified either as there's still a fair amount of Wii U stock. The combination of bad sales and non-standard components was the reason for the lack of cost-cutting done on Wii U.
 
I think someone posted a few pages back that the NS has 4GB of RAM, but 3.2GB is available for games. I guess they figure they don't need as much for the OS this time around.
Still, 3.2GB is 36% less RAM than the 5GB allocation of PS4/XB1.

Open-world collectathons
(the bane of this generation)
require a lot of RAM, so porting ain't gonna be easy...
 
Still, 3.2GB is 36% less RAM than the 5GB allocation of PS4/XB1.

Open-world collectathons
(the bane of this generation)
require a lot of RAM, so porting ain't gonna be easy...

It'll be fine. The Wii U did Xenoblade X with WAY less. It'll be no problem with 3.2GB.
 
Still, 3.2GB is 36% less RAM than the 5GB allocation of PS4/XB1.

Open-world collectathons
(the bane of this generation)
require a lot of RAM, so porting ain't gonna be easy...
Depends on the game and on the dev. GTAV and Skyrim managed quite a bit on less than half a gig. BOTW seems impressive on just 1GB.

As with everything Switch, it's more likely to come down to market forces over anything else. If Switch is a success then publishers will push for the ports, if it's not then they won't.
 
An i5-6600 being twice as fast as an 8 core jaguar doesn't make the jaguar look that bad.

Nope. In aggregate the performance was never as bad as people said for a 400 dollar box in 2013, it was just per-core performance that took a hit for die size and power draw considerations. Mind, that's twice as fast per clock, where the i5/i7 would clock much higher.

If you got all 7ish cores spinning it probably trades blows with a modern i3, which can also run most modern games well if the GPU allows.

All in all, it was wise to allocate more power to the GPU really.
 
Xenoblade was an exclusive game, tailored for the Wii U.

Do you expect games like Witcher 3, AC Unity/Syndicate etc. to refactor their codebases?

I don't think they'd have to do that much to get those games to work in 3.2GB of RAM. It won't be a problem. No point in even worrying about it. The only thing stopping these kinds of ports is gonna be whether or not they'll sell. It won't be the hardware.
 
Depends on the game and on the dev. GTAV and Skyrim managed quite a bit on less than half a gig. BOTW seems impressive on just 1GB.

As with everything Switch, it's more likely to come down to market forces over anything else. If Switch is a success then publishers will push for the ports, if it's not then they won't.

Basically this. It's not only a matter of specs, it's mostly a cost-reward thing, and Switch owners need to show that there's a viable market for 3rd parties. Of course if 3rd parties are late botched ports (missing dlc etc) they cannot expect to see any strong sales.
 
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