Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD

Infest said:
I have to say I was very impressed the first time I entered Altissia but now it's making me a little angry to see this huge area on the map and only be able to have access to 1/10 of the city or so, not even speaking of the massive surrounding areas. >.>
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Is the 1/10th you can access even have any interaction? So far I've only visited Lestallum, and for an RPG "town," it's pretty much shit. There's basically nothing to do, nothing to explore, nothing to enter and examine. Unless I somehow totally missed something.

Bleugh.
 
orthodoxy1095 said:
Is the 1/10th you can access even have any interaction? So far I've only visited Lestallum, and for an RPG "town," it's pretty much shit. There's basically nothing to do, nothing to explore, nothing to enter and examine. Unless I somehow totally missed something.

Bleugh.
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I just made it there and it's pretty much exactly like Lestallum, just more visually striking.
 
There are basically no towns like that in this game, but the interaction with citizens alone makes it more involved than FFXIII. And Lestallum and even Altissia feel more like towns than Palumpolum or Oerba did in that game, its rather crowded which looks good. There are scenes that take place inside rooms though. The lack of interactive towns where you can enter houses didn't really bother me in this game.

Wat bothered me the most is the piece of shit second half and Tenebrae.
 
Infest said:
I have to say I was very impressed the first time I entered Altissia but now it's making me a little angry to see this huge area on the map and only be able to have access to 1/10 of the city or so, not even speaking of the massive surrounding areas. >.>
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Cyns6z4UQAAhV-l.jpg



This shit is a slap to our faces. I remember opening this up the first time and thinking "holy shit we're gonna be able to explore all that. Even the hillsides. This should be sick"
 
ULTROS! said:
FFXVI shouldn't attempt an open world. I'm fine with towns as big as Lestallum and field areas as big as say... The Calm Lands of FFX.

Though what they can lift from FFXV are the dungeon designs and strong characterizations.
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Dungeon designs yes. Probably the best parts of the game by leaps and bounds over anything else, and probably the parts I genuinely enjoyed without any major grievances (poor camera notwithstanding).

Characterizations? Well, I think they should build more of that into the game to establish the characters much better rather than leave a lot of that in supplemental viewing materials. It took me almost till the end of the game to even think of them as more than just a prince+servants, a development I felt came way too late. Ultimately for me, it made a lot of the game just feel contrived as far as their "brotherhood" goes. I know some of this is also on me just simply not liking the characters very much.
 
SkylineRKR said:
I hope this is mere coincidence and not a trend. Basically, this and MGSV were my 2 top choices for this gen way back. And both underdelivered in actual storytelling and character building. Both saw huge development issues, so lets hope its just that.
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Absolutely, that's my biggest concern, too. I would hope for XV it is just a case of Tabata and the rest of the team just having to priortize what they could, and the open world became more of the priority over a dense story/use of characters. I guess I fear - kind of like what happened with Bethesda - that Square might continue to prioritize open world over story quality in the future.

yunbuns said:
I think they should have a world similar to XII again. There was a lot of great locations in that game that were a very distinctive from each other.
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Yeah, I think I was hoping for a lot more of that from XV. XII had so many different deserts, forests, grassy plains, mines, ruins, and quite a few city hubs (not that the NPCs were that interesting), with lots of smaller villages. The areas that are in XV beautifully designed, with a tangible atmosphere, but I would have taken a loss of scale for more diverse locales. I really hoped we were going to explore Tenebrae!. XV's dungeons are great, at least. I think XII had less, it is just that XII's were often bigger.

Filth said:
I wish the main cast of the game focused on cor and aranea.
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I've grown to be quite fond of Prompto, but man, I really wish I could switch Ignis and Gladio out for Cor and Aranea.
 
So how do you properly deal with those mosquitos without magic? I can't even beat a group near Ravanagh from the monster hunt and I'm like 10 levels higher, I jump in, I get smoked and stabbed. I run out, I get stabbed. I whiff, I get stabbed. I whiff again, I get grabbed. I block, I get grabbed. Everything whiffs, and smoke fucks up my view not to mention confusion.

I have no problem beating Iron Giants etc, but these guys are taking the piss.
 
fidelio_forte said:
Absolutely, that's my biggest concern, too. I would hope for XV it is just a case of Tabata and the rest of the team just having to priortize what they could, and the open world became more of the priority over a dense story/use of characters. I guess I fear - kind of like what happened with Bethesda - that Square might continue to prioritize open world over story quality in the future.
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Yeah, everytime people say 'i hope SE takes the good points of this game forward!' i get the sinking feeling that the Japanese are hearing, 'foreigners always like open world over story in every circumstance, MORE OPEN WORLD, NO STORY'

Its already an assumption in japan already, and the reception to this game makes that more of an issue
 
Inuhanyou said:
Yeah, everytime people say 'i hope SE takes the good points of this game forward!' i get the feeling, the Japanese are hearing 'westerners always like open world over story, MORE OPEN WORLD, NO STORY'
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It seems Square was awe struck by The Witcher. I think I've read that somewhere. And there are certainly similarities. They shouldn't do that. Focus on what you're good at. Square has made FFX, FFXII... Keep the open world for MMO. Though I think the overworld of FFXV is impressive, it also feels half baked and a lot is cut in favor of a completely linear final phase to hamfist the story. And that part is even more linear than FFXIII (the fucking train). Then the Imperial city, holy shit. Thats like the worst dungeon I have ever played and it include every fucking trope from starting naked to having to backtrack 3 times and a door puzzle all of a sudden.
 
Open world design continues to be the death of potential for me. Nothing has changed -- it's just that yet another of my favorite franchises has fallen victim to it.

I don't believe it's coincidental. The Japanese studios are struggling to compete in the worldwide sphere by delivering open world experiences no matter the tradeoff. It won't end anytime soon.

What I now hope is that the divided nature of FFVII-R helps grant Nomura's team the necessary time to flesh out each chapter narratively. I think it's the only way Square gives me a Final Fantasy with an amply rich plot again anytime soon. And I'm willing to pay $180 across multiple releases for it. Because, frankly, I'm saving all that cash by not buying most open world RPGs, anyway.

To be clear! I am enjoying Final Fantasy XV up to a point. It's more than I can say for FFXIII. There's some great stuff in here and if Square properly prioritizes the things it takes from Tabata's game going forward, we're in for a treat. The aforementioned "death of potential" means FFXV's story is neutered into oblivion, but there are shining moments here nevertheless, even there. But so much was sacrificed to make this open world fantasy a reality.

Just like Dragon Age: Inquisition (please note: I still like this game). Just like Metal Gear Solid V. Just like Xenoblade Chronicles X. Just like Xenoblade Chronicles (yes, I feel it's true even there).

The cycle continues. I want off this open world train. I don't want to have to pop into the old Final Fantasies every time I need to be reminded that Square can -- or at least, could -- give me tightly-written stories.
 
I don't think the open world itself is the problem. Much stronger narrative could have easily worked even with the open world as it is. There just seems to be around 75% of the cut-scenes simply... missing, making the plot seem very bare-bones.
 
Burbeting said:
I don't think the open world itself is the problem. Much stronger narrative could have easily worked even with the open world as it is. There just seems to be around 75% of the cut-scenes simply... missing, making the plot seem very bare-bones.
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but this problem creeps in more often than not in large part because of companies deciding to go open world, methinks. Granted, Square has done a particularly ugly job. No denying that. But the resources required to make open world click tends to harm the content of these games in recurring ways.
 
JeffZero said:
Open world design continues to be the death of potential for me. Nothing has changed -- it's just that yet another of my favorite franchises has fallen victim to it.

I don't believe it's coincidental. The Japanese studios are struggling to compete in the worldwide sphere by delivering open world experiences no matter the tradeoff. It won't end anytime soon.

What I now hope is that the divided nature of FFVII-R helps grant Nomura's team the necessary time to flesh out each chapter narratively. I think it's the only way Square gives me a Final Fantasy with an amply rich plot again anytime soon. And I'm willing to pay $180 across multiple releases for it. Because, frankly, I'm saving all that cash by not buying most open world RPGs, anyway.

To be clear! I am enjoying Final Fantasy XV up to a point. It's more than I can say for FFXIII. There's some great stuff in here and if Square properly prioritizes the things it takes from Tabata's game going forward, we're in for a treat. The aforementioned "death of potential" means FFXV's story is neutered into oblivion, but there are shining moments here nevertheless, even there. But so much was sacrificed to make this open world fantasy a reality.

Just like Dragon Age: Inquisition (please note: I still like this game). Just like Metal Gear Solid V. Just like Xenoblade Chronicles X. Just like Xenoblade Chronicles (yes, I feel it's true even there).

The cycle continues. I want off this open world train. I don't want to have to pop into the old Final Fantasies every time I need to be reminded that Square can -- or at least, could -- give me tightly-written stories.
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I fear FFXIII might have killed any chance of Linear-based, story-focused, Final Fantasy games.

There is zero percent chance we get any linear FF as the next mainline game. While it is a fine, we do need a good balance between open world and linear, something like the semi-open nature of FFXII. But even that suffered in the story and character department.

I am afraid I just don't see a proper solution to this problem and I feel we are just old farts who are screaming at cloud (pun intended) because the newer fans, new generation of them, might start loving the series due to open world nature and will have a hard time going back to linear-based gameplay.
 
DarkLordMalik said:
I fear FFXIII might have killed any chance of Linear-based, story-focused, Final Fantasy games.

There is zero percent chance we get any linear FF as the next mainline game. While it is a fine, we do need a good balance between open world and linear, something like the semi-open nature of FFXII. But even that suffered in the story and character department.

I am afraid I just don't see a proper solution to this problem and I feel we are just old farts who are screaming at cloud (pun intended) because the newer fans, new generation of them, might start loving the series due to open world nature and will have a hard time going back to linear-based gameplay.
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bring back world maps. problem solved
 
DarkLordMalik said:
I am afraid I just don't see a proper solution to this problem and I feel we are just old farts who are screaming at cloud (pun intended) because the newer fans, new generation of them, might start loving the series due to open world nature and will have a hard time going back to linear-based gameplay.
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Unfortunately, I fear you're right. Younger gamers are being raised on this idea that "environmental storytelling" is a better methodology even in video games that are attempting to be a bit more like great novels/TV shows with their lore.

Add to that the tepid reception to FFXIII and the word "linear" ending up with the same connotation as "poisonous" because XIII's gameplay loop of battle->cutscene->battle->cutscene across ultra-tight corridors was such a put-off. It's hard to fathom a better balance going forward but it's what I hope they'll strive for instead.

At the very least, I will maintain hope that FFVII-R's staggered release will keep it from flying completely off the rails narratively. If they need, say, three games to tell that singular story, then damn it, let's let 'em have it. It's obvious FFXV has a third of VII's story as-is, so it tracks.
 
JeffZero said:
Unfortunately, I fear you're right. Younger gamers are being raised on this idea that "environmental storytelling" is a better methodology even in video games that are attempting to be a bit more like great novels/TV shows with their lore.

Add to that the tepid reception to FFXIII and the word "linear" ending up with the same connotation as "poisonous" because XIII's gameplay loop of battle->cutscene->battle->cutscene across ultra-tight corridors was such a put-off. It's hard to fathom a better balance going forward but it's what I hope they'll strive for instead.

At the very least, I will maintain hope that FFVII-R's staggered release will keep it from flying completely off the rails narratively. If they need, say, three games to tell that singular story, then damn it, let's let 'em have it. It's obvious FFXV has a third of VII's story as-is, so it tracks.
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I have similar high hopes for FFVII: Remake albeit I am a bit confused on how our story progression will carry over for the next part. Say that we reach the end of part 1, how long will we have to wait for part 2. How will our progress carry over to it. What about the people who start with part 2 or lose their saves from part 1.

I am afraid, I have no idea how it will be implemented so I am just being hopeful. I certainly wouldn't like it if we are forced to start each part of the FFVII: Remake from scratch.

sappyday said:
No

Fuck man those Tenebrea shots kill me. The worst part is that when I got to Tenebrea it was night time so I couldn't see shit
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I was hoping the time of day was dynamic but alas it wasn't the case.
 
Nomura vision, lol. He wanted to make a road movie too. I think FFXV and Versus aren't that different, Nomura likely had input still. I think Wan Hazmer said this as well.

The first trailer of Versus was just a dream, where a young Noctis has all the royal arms and sits on the throne. I think thats been reshaped into that Omen trailer dream cutscene.

Ravus would probably be the final boss and Stella a polar opposite rival.
 
There are direct quotes from Nomura about him wanting Versus to be a seamless open world. I get peoples fears about open world damaging the narrative, but it was always a part of this games makeup.
 
DarkLordMalik said:
I have similar high hopes for FFVII: Remake albeit I am a bit confused on how our story progression will carry over for the next part. Say that we reach the end of part 1, how long will we have to wait for part 2. How will our progress carry over to it. What about the people who start with part 2 or lose their saves from part 1.

I am afraid, I have no idea how it will be implemented so I am just being hopeful. I certainly wouldn't like it if we are forced to start each part of the FFVII: Remake from scratch.
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Right now the biggest burning question on my mind is how many separate installments will wind up comprising FFVII now. Whether it's two releases or three, that'll really change what I, as a big-time FFVII nerd, can reasonably expect to be covered per chapter. From there, I can estimate how much depth each section will include. Many fans are anticipating Midgar covering the entire first game, for example, but I don't see that being the case without a narrative overhaul twice as drastic as I suspect will occur (and to be sure, I anticipate a fairly drastic overhaul).

Carrying forward our story progress is a really good concern to have, though. It's possible Square will alter the variables such that Level 200 or so is the final number, rather than 99. That'll give them far more breathing room to make each game full of "level up" opportunities via
fetch quests lol but still.
Take this number and all the stats therein, allow room for changes in-between installments depending on feedback, and keep files on consoles/the cloud for previous-gen BioWare-style upload. That'd be ideal.

Slater said:
There are direct quotes from Nomura about him wanting Versus to be a seamless open world. I get peoples fears about open world damaging the narrative, but it was always a part of this games makeup.
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I was never a hardcore Versus supporter and I personally do not associate the damaged narrative on a switch in director's chair, for what it's worth. I think this was always going to be an issue.
 
Burbeting said:
I don't think the open world itself is the problem. Much stronger narrative could have easily worked even with the open world as it is. There just seems to be around 75% of the cut-scenes simply... missing, making the plot seem very bare-bones.
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The lack of (properly fleshed out) cutscenes is one of my main problems with the game.

And while it's impressive on a technical level that they managed to make pretty much everything running in real time I'm just not a fan of it, especially if it's not well edited like here. Not even speaking of all the awkard NPC faces, janky movements and dithering hair that comes with it. I like my fancy CG cutscenes in Final Fantasy games, you can still do so much more impressive stuff with them and I think they could've gone away with some of the story problems by doing it this way. Cause XV suffers a lot from talking about things and not showing them.

They probably did run of budget/time because of kingsglaive though... which is a bummer.
 
Slater said:
There are direct quotes from Nomura about him wanting Versus to be a seamless open world. I get peoples fears about open world damaging the narrative, but it was always a part of this games makeup.
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Yea and it was always supposed to have the Leide, Duscae region it seems. The Coernex station was in the 2010 tgs trailer so the mixture of Americana was still in.
 
SkylineRKR said:
It seems Square was awe struck by The Witcher. I think I've read that somewhere. And there are certainly similarities. They shouldn't do that. Focus on what you're good at. Square has made FFX, FFXII... Keep the open world for MMO. Though I think the overworld of FFXV is impressive, it also feels half baked and a lot is cut in favor of a completely linear final phase to hamfist the story. And that part is even more linear than FFXIII (the fucking train). Then the Imperial city, holy shit. Thats like the worst dungeon I have ever played and it include every fucking trope from starting naked to having to backtrack 3 times and a door puzzle all of a sudden.
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Except there's a world's difference between Witcher 3' storytelling and FFXV's.

Like there's 10 times more cutscene time in W3
 
SkylineRKR said:
Nomura vision, lol. He wanted to make a road movie too. I think FFXV and Versus aren't that different, Nomura likely had input still. I think Wan Hazmer said this as well.

The first trailer of Versus was just a dream, where a young Noctis has all the royal arms and sits on the throne. I think thats been reshaped into that Omen trailer dream cutscene.

Ravus would probably be the final boss and Stella a polar opposite rival.
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That's a whole lot of conclusions based on nothing.

He wanted to make a journey and a game with open areas, but we don't know any extent to what that was.

Nomura didn't touch the game period after he left, and actually refused to comment on it after his departure, just like Tabata had nothing to do with FF7R as they are different teams entirely. Nojima does not even get a spot in the credits.

What the end result of the game's broken narrative is has a lot more to do with the changes in the past 2 years, a lot of footage which is not even in the game.

People dismissing this issue are misrepresenting the project by pretending it was always going to be a mess narratively when this is misrepresenting the pressures the team had, both under Nomura and under Tabata.

It was not a smooth development workflow.
 
I can't remember which event it was, but I remember them making some sort of deal with the structure of the Empire and yet in the end, it's kind of like they don't exist. It would of been nice if they expanded Ardyn's involvement and how he managed to get everyone turned to demons.
 
Wait. Prompto, Ignis, and Gladio died?

I want to pretend they didn't die.

Tabata has a thing for killing everyone, no?
 
Inuhanyou said:
What the end result of the game's broken narrative is has a lot more to do with the changes in the past 2 years, a lot of footage which is not even in the game.
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Exactly and there's even a lot of stuff from recent trailers that didn't make it. Here's some of the content from 2013 or more important 2014 - 2016 that is not in the game:
vlcsnap-error8599pso4.jpg
 
They should just let Niinou direct the next FF (aka guy who helped direct ARR:FFXIV and direct Dragon Quest Builders GOTY).
 
Infest said:
Does anyone know when the ultimania guides come out in Japan?
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My pre-order statement puts the release date as 28th December 2016.

SkylineRKR said:
Unless he was erased from history. I saw the scene again and he was the first Lucis Caelum and a Healer who was ready to be chosen, but a jealous King who wasn't chosen fucked him over. That king can't have been a Lucis Caelum, as that was Ardyn's name. He took it.

So the whole line was built on a lie. Noctis isn't from the same blood, but does carry his name.
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Crossing Eden said:
I know Izunia is the person who cast him out, but it's unclear why that person would take his name as well since it seems so vague.
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Also, where did you guys get the info regarding Izunia taking the original Lucis Caelum name and assuming the throne? As I recalled, it was never explicitly stated who Izunia was. The person could be the Oracle instead.

Crossing Eden said:
Yea his motivation makes complete sense, dude got played like a fiddle and thus went all scorched earth. Seriously wish they would explain how he fooled the empire for 30 straight years into not questioning his lack of aging. In fact it would make sense if he was like magically mind controlling Ledolus or something considering how bored the and emotionless the dude is with like everything. "Kill the princesszzzz" Either way, he won, the family that betrayed him died with Noctis, really wish the bros and Luna weren't there during the ending as this whole thing was between him and the Lucian Kings.
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Slater said:
I agree, everything he does is a middle finger to the world/family/Astrals that fucked him over, taking the name to taint it would fit right in with his spite
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Where was it mentioned the Lucis family betrayed Ardyn and denied him King? As far as I know, it was Bahamut and the Crystal who refused Ardyn the power. The Lucis line simply took responsibility in eliminating Ardyn (when he went insane) as he was a part of their family member.


Or all this is just speculation? I may have misunderstood the context. I just need clarification. Thanks.
 
Just finished the game, the second half of the game seems like someone was telling them to hurry up and finish the damn game. The first few chapters went by very slowly but around chapter 8 or so it's nothing but story.
 
Finished the game.

I really enjoyed the second half. This is a DARK Final Fantasy game. However, it feels like there are missing cutscenes.

-Gladio runs off to do... what? (DLC?)
-Ignis getting blinded
-EVERYTHING involving the Empire and its fall happens off screen
-Shiva being killed happens off screen and is hardly alluded to before you meet her dead corpse (really cool scene by the way)
-Gentiana is Shiva? Wtf?
-Ravus suddenly being good... for what reason?
-Tenebrae being a vista in the distance
-Prompto is from Nifleheim. Cool... ok, let's never bring that up again
-90% of the antagonists are underused, with some (old guy that's not the emperor, for example) showing up a grand total of one time
-So Ardyn is who? This was explained really poorly.
-The World of Ruin was only two chapters long, we don't get to see Iris, Cindy, or anyone else
-Why do Talcott and Prompto look manly as heck but sound like annoying little kids still?

I loved this game. Probably right behind FFX for me as my third favorite FF. But it has a lot of problems. Ironically I found no real problems with the road trip portion of the narrative, but maybe that's because I watched the movie and followed every Insomnia-based trailer since 2006. I can get feeling lost otherwise.

The towns were disappointing, but man were they beautiful.

I really wanted to spend more time with the older gang.

5Lu1v82.jpg
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All in all, I found this game conceptually amazing but mechanically lacking. It's really obvious what kind of story they were going for, but it falls flat in its execution. However, the overall tone and atmosphere was spot on.
 
EscapeArtist said:
Just finished the game, the second half of the game seems like someone was telling them to hurry up and finish the damn game. The first few chapters went by very slowly but around chapter 8 or so it's nothing but story.
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Ironically the game needed even more story added to it.
 
Second half should have been the characters sitting in chairs on a starry background while narrating all the cool stuff that we don't get to see.
 
Open world has nothing to do with anything. Open world didn't prevent Assassin's Creed 2 or Infamous SS from being cohesive stories. A lot of content just seems gone.
 
Honestly, they could have dropped the main plot(s) from the first half of the game and made it about the deamons being actual people. Chapters 13 and 14 pretty much made everything that happened prior irrelevant. knights blades? Who cares you get them ALL when you enter God mode! Awakening of the Astrals? Who cares when they play no part in actually defeating the big bad.

I also refuse to blame open world design on shitty writing / what was chosen to stay in the game.
 
Just finished it. I'm having mixed feelings. The second half of the main storyline is obviously rushed and it shows. Most of the plot points get tossed around and everything you knew prior doesn't matter. I'm not sure I even understand what happened at the end and who Ardyn actually is plus Chapter 13 should've been cool but was a big drag.

Still, the overall tone and the finishing cutscenes really drove home. I teared up a bit and I don't even know why.
 
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