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[Audioboxer]

Ah, yes. "Both sides" indeed.

I purposefully didn't mention names but seeing as you went out your way to quote that part of my post, yes, unashamedly I am getting a bit tired of seeing some GAFers act like lightning rods in topics to bring out the red carpet of constant "fuck yous" and relentless dog-piling. There are more respectable ways to call out opinions and disagree with people than making every controversial topic on this board a chore to read. The constant aggression and snark is rather off putting and I think more should pay heed to EviLore stating in the OT section that trying to run people off of GAF isn't the way to disagree and challenge.

 

[Aspiring]

lol I actually don't know, I was exaggerating.

Oh ok haha. Was starting to get annoyed that someone could say that shit.

 

[Madame M]

First, somebody define "super gay" for me please. Will giving Ellie a short haircut, dress her up in flannel be "super gay" enough?

/eyeroll

to some sad people it's simply being "out"

 

[Rixxan]

In Neil I trust

If he feels TLOU Part 2 being super gay is the best way to continue this masterpiece of a story then by all means be super gay

 

[shadowsdarknes]

The coming Vice President of the United States wants to electrocute homosexuals and repeal any laws of equality, but here we have fuckboi one, two, and three who are oh so concerned that their video game won't be the usual non-reflective heterosexual power fantasy that will constantly stroke their dicks and reaffirm their manhood, and if they don't get it, it's basically equivalent to the genocide of an entire population. Those poor souls.

And that's not talking about the so-called moderates with their veiled excuses for the status quo and "both sides" and whatever nonsense they can conjure up to serve as impediments towards the mere presence of non-straight existence.

This seems a bit extreme. At the end of the day, mostly everyone here enjoyed TLoU. We all have some idea where we want to see the sequel go and how the characters develop. Just because some people aren't as enthused at the idea as others doesn't really mean all that much.

If the writers decide to make Ellie a lesbian, that's fine. The execution of the idea could be done well or it could be done poorly. Designing a lesbian character isn't the same as designing a straight character. Just because someone may want to be a major highlight of her character and some do not, is not the end of the world. That's just part of normal discussion.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I'm talking distinctly about the small village that Joel massacres when he rescues Ellie. All the women and children just... disappear? Convenient, because they don't want to show him as a complete psychopath who stabs children with broken bottles, I guess.

there are female hunters & fireflies, they were not included in the campaign because of ps3's memory limitations. source:

Q: Hello! My question is related to my only real complaint i have with the game. Was there a story reason as to why there were only Male hunters who fight Ellie and Joel but no female ones? It's not a massive problem but I thought it was quite strange to me. Thanks!

A: It was mostly a tech/time issue (Melee animations for a different rig required a whole new set of animations and more memory).
Where we could, we included female antagonists (there are female soldiers that shoot at you that are outside of melee range).

you can also do all kinds of horrific executions in the mp which features female combatants.

 

[g11]

I hope the writing is better or at least more original. I loved the gameplay of TLOU but the story just seemed like Children of Men + The Road + "not really zombies" zombies but less good.

As for whether or not it's "super gay" or not, I'm good either way. I'm not clamouring for it but it wouldn't bother me either.

EDIT: On second thought, the gameplay had issues too. Those pallet-in-the-water "puzzles" were tedious.

 

[Laughing Banana]

The term "super gay" sure sounds like the author wants Ellie to scream around yelling "Hey folks! I'm gayyy!" during her adventures or something.

It's kinda hilarious tho, to see that there are people that have played Left Behind who think that Ellie's kiss towards Riley as "ambiguous". That was flat out a romantic kiss, no ifs or buts about it.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

"You know her being gay is great and all BUT... wouldn't it be better if she were straight and or bi because it'd suit my childish agenda

Not what I said. Come on. Read my follow-up posts before twisting this one beyond recognition.

instead of being a progressive character that lesbians could look up to???"

?? Seriously now?

actual heterosexual relationships for *PLAYABLE* female leads can be just as progressive????

There is kind of a clear and obvious avoidance of male romantic interests for the playable lead character.

Thank you.

 

[Sai-kun]

I purposefully didn't mention names but seeing as you went out your way to quote that part of my post, yes, unashamedly I am getting a bit tired of seeing some GAFers act like lightning rods in topics to bring out the red carpet of constant "fuck yous" and relentless dog-piling. There are more respectable ways to call out opinions and disagree with people than making every controversial topic on this board a chore to read. The constant aggression and snark is rather off putting and I think more should pay heed to EviLore stating in the OT section that trying to run people off of GAF isn't the way to disagree and challenge.

people get banned for saying 'fuck you' to anyone. tone policing is boring. time to get over it.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Not what I said. Come on. Read my follow-up posts before twisting this one beyond recognition.

?? Seriously now?


Thank you.

You don't think that people may hesitate to create a male love interest for a female lead not because of "feeling of ownership by the male players" but rather due to because creating a female lead with a male romantic interest can be seen as stereotyping in itself?

Just look at stuff like Moana, for example. One of the main reasons people gave it such a huge praise was because Moana didn't have a romantic partner in the movie and that was seen as such a great step by Disney. There is certainly a sense of that "if you want to portray a strong, independent female character, then you'd better not have her longing for a guy/have a romantic partner!" sentiment going around.

Tho, this conversation might be better reserved for another time since it is not really what this thread is about.

 

[Metroidvania]

I'm talking distinctly about the small village that Joel massacres when he rescues Ellie. All the women and children just... disappear? Convenient, because they don't want to show him as a complete psychopath who stabs children with broken bottles, I guess.

Didn't David explicitly say to evac the children and such once the fire started during that section?

Or at least somewhere in the timeline when Ellie was making her escape?

I'd swear I remember something to that nature being said.

(Also the whole Ps3 memory thing)

 

[Astral Dog]

Wow in your face much? How about being more subtle?

You're right. A gay superhero would be a cool idea BUT it has to be subtle..

 

[Lime]

I purposefully didn't mention names but seeing as you went out your way to quote that part of my post, yes, unashamedly I am getting a bit tired of seeing some GAFers act like lightning rods in topics to bring out the red carpet of constant "fuck yous" and relentless dog-piling. There are more respectable ways to call out opinions and disagree with people than making every controversial topic on this board a chore to read. The constant aggression and snark is rather off putting and I think more should pay heed to EviLore stating in the OT section that trying to run people off of GAF isn't the way to disagree and challenge.

I'm glad you're here on GAF to tell people how to properly react to those who don't even respect or acknowledge people's existence in video games. We wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of those poor souls and their inability to empathize with other human beings, while fucking heteronormativity is already brutalizing lgbtq identities around the world.

I think Jesse Williams addressed your post in his BET award speech. Something along the lines of sitting down instead of concern trolling and tone policing.

 

[firehawk12]

there are female hunters & fireflies, they were not included in the campaign because of ps3's memory limitations. source:
you can also do all kinds of horrific executions in the mp which features female combatants.

I mean, I never played the multiplayer, and I can only speak to what's in the game that I played. I only played the DLC on the PS4, but if it was a PS3 limitation did they ever reintroduce female combatants in the remaster?

Didn't David explicitly say to evac the children and such once the fire started during that section?

Or at least somewhere in the timeline when Ellie was making her escape?

I'd swear I remember something to that nature being said.

(Also the whole Ps3 memory thing)

I honestly don't remember any of the details. I just remember some debate about the issue when the game came out, and I think I just came to the conclusion that women were forced to be breeders and weren't allowed outside and that they were all forced to have children and be mothers, regardless of their orientation (Much like Veronica in Fallout New Vegas). Either way, it was convenient that outside of Marlene, who I still think was "right" anyway, all of the women in the game were basically allies.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You don't think that people may hesitate to create a male love interest for a female lead not because of "feeling of ownership by the male players" but rather due to because creating a female lead with a male romantic interest can be seen as stereotyping in itself?

Just look at stuff like Moana, for example. One of the main reasons people gave it such a huge praise was because Moana didn't have a romantic partner in the movie and that was seen as such a great step by Disney. There is certainly a sense of that "if you want to portray a strong, independent female character, then you'd better not have her longing for a guy/have a romantic partner!" sentiment going around.

Tho, this conversation might be better reserved for another time since it is not really what this thread is about.

Movies are different. It's common there, but almost unheard of in video games. But yes this is getting off-topic.

 

[Audioboxer]

people get banned for saying 'fuck you' to anyone. tone policing is boring. time to get over it.

Yes sure, but the aggression I say is getting tiring to read may not be against rules, but calling people "fuckbois" as a way to disagree is as I said, tiring. It's never ending from some posters, always cranked to 11. It is telling as well a poster went out of their way to snip that comment from my post and just do the usual "two sides" snark when I didn't even quote them in the first instance. Must have been obvious what aggressive behaviour I was a little bit fed up with.

The ironic thing here is as a defender of Ellie taking front stage, and as a defender of her written character, albeit it I simply said expect TLoU part 2 to be darker than the 1st, I now have the dogpiling police kicking off.

I'm glad you're here on GAF to tell people how to properly react to those who don't even respect or acknowledge people's existence in video games. We wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of those poor souls and their inability to empathize with other human beings, while fucking heteronormativity is already brutalizing lgbtq identities around the world.

I think Jesse Williams addressed your post in his BET award speech. Something along the lines of sitting down instead of concern trolling and tone policing.

*sigh* It's fine Lime, I'll leave you be and not even hint at any frustrations I have in some topics anymore.

 

[nakedeyes]

In Neil I trust

If he feels TLOU Part 2 being super gay is the best way to continue this masterpiece of a story then by all means be super gay

Exactly how I feel. Let the creators do what they think gets their vision across best and just leave it. I don't understand how people lose their shit so hard while talking about whether or not the developers should do it, when they are not the creators of said games.

 

[Sai-kun]

Yes sure, but the aggression I say is getting tiring to read may not be against rules, but calling people "fuckbois" as a way to disagree is as I said, tiring. It's never ending from some posters, always cranked to 11. It is telling as well a poster went out of their way to snip that comment from my post and just do the usual "two sides" snark when I didn't even quote them in the first instance. Must have been obvious what aggressive behaviour I was a little bit fed up with.

The ironic thing here is as a defender of Ellie taking front stage, and as a defender of her written character, albeit it I simply said expect TLoU part 2 to be darker than the 1st, I now have the dogpiling police kicking off.

fuckbois are fuckbois and should be called out on it idk man

the 'both sides' comment was pretty appropriate i think, given that you made some weird insinuation that people who are in (very vocal) support of ellie as an lgbt character are somehow damaging their own 'side' by responding with snark to people who don't really give a shit

 

[Audioboxer]

fuckbois are fuckbois and should be called out on it idk man

the 'both sides' comment was pretty appropriate i think, given that you made some weird insinuation that people who are in (very vocal) support of ellie as an lgbt character are somehow damaging their own 'side' by responding with snark to people who don't really give a shit

That isn't what I said at all. I said constant snark and aggression is grating to read. That doesn't suggest a stance on approval of conviction. As I just said above I fully support Ellie as a lead, ND and I find it positive people can relate to her character in real life. Although I gave my opinion this is going to be a darker game than the first so there might not be as much of a chance for a Left Behind like take on things. The remarks about aggression are solely about my opinion on the way a vocal few behave in nearly any topic that has unpopular dissenting opinion. Anyway, as I just said I'll quieten myself down and just ignore things. It was worth replying to you to clear up what you said as you did not relate the "both sides" comment to me correctly.

 

[Renekton]

I think a theme or political statement works only if woven well into gameplay, hence why Paper's Please works and why Mankind Divided fell short.

 

[Bronx-Man]

I think a theme or political statement works only if woven well into gameplay, hence why Paper's Please works and why Mankind Divided fell short.

Please don't remind me of that game.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Exactly how I feel. Let the creators do what they think gets their vision across best and just leave it. I don't understand how people lose their shit so hard while talking about whether or not the developers should do it, when they are not the creators of said games.

If that's the case, then this thread really shouldn't even exist.

At the end of the day, we should be able to discuss how we want to see certain characters developed as this is a very character driven game.

Knowing this, we should trust and respect ND's decision with whatever they do with this game. They've earned it so far.

 

[Henkka]

Movies are different. It's common there, but almost unheard of in video games. But yes this is getting off-topic.

Games like TLOU take their cues from Hollywood, though. I think a lot of people would be mad if Ellie was bi or had a boyfriend, since it wouldn't be "progressive" like Moana. (Or Elsa, or Rey, or Furiosa...)

 

[Laughing Banana]

Please don't remind me of that game.

Mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so much potential wasted.

 

[ANDS]

Designing a lesbian character isn't the same as designing a straight character.

The hell does this mean? You "design" a lesbian character with the same process as you do any other character: by doing your research and understanding the qualities you are about to imbue your character with.

Good lord this was a bad comment.

 

[nullset2]

Everyone is bisexual

 

[Tagavaka]

I don't think i've ever wanted anything more in this moment than a AAA game being released with a gay female lead. I would literally cry.

It would make a huge impact and pave the way for other devs not to be scared out of writing a character this way if they wanted to do it for their own stories.

Can I ask a question or two of the people saying it's fine as long as it's not a focus and not being made into a big deal or kept subtle.

What constitutes it not being made a big deal of in the game?

If Ellie is shown to have a love interest at some point is that too much?

Are games where the straight male lead is shown to have a romantic partner making a big deal of his heterosexuality by having the romance exist?

Why do people have different standards for the integration of queer people in a story and straight people in a story?

 

[Audioboxer]

I don't think i've ever wanted anything more in this moment than a AAA game being released with a gay female lead. I would literally cry.

It would make a huge impact and pave the way for other devs not to be scared out of writing a character this way if they wanted to do it for their own stories.

Can I ask a question or two of the people saying it's fine as long as it's not a focus and not being made into a big deal or kept subtle.

What constitutes it not being made a big deal of in the game?

If Ellie is shown to have a love interest at some point is that too much?

Are games where the straight male lead is shown to have a romantic partner making a big deal of his heterosexuality by having the romance exist?

Why do people have different standards for the integration of queer people in a story and straight people in a story?

She already is going to be a gay female lead. ND have confirmed she is the lead character for TLoU part 2. She also had a romantic interest in Left Behind. None of that is canon, it all happened and is still part of the world's history.

The bulk of what people are asking for was already on display in the first game (and for any haters, check those glorious game of the year awards), so I assume given the topic title some are just saying what next? Well, she is the lead role now rather than a secondary role from the first game.

I don't think anyone wants some ham-fisted Mass Effect sex scene for a token gesture that gay people have sex. While I'm being facetious there, yes, some games handle relationships like 14 year olds discovering sex for the first time. The games tone has been stated to be darker and the trailer inspired an Ellie who has seen some shit and is probably going partly insane. So for example is it going to be easy to fit in a Left Behind like more relaxed segment? Possibly, but Druckmann has pre warned this will be a darker game.

Given that it is a set world and is following on an already fairly dark ending to the first game there is a bit of advice for some thinking this game has some free role to be whatever they want it to be, to be brought back down to reality. Part 2 has very little chance of being a love story. It's most likely going to be a revenge story given the trailer and what Druckmann has stated. It also already does star a lead female gay character. Ellie isn't being rewritten, she's just aged and obviously we're going to find out how she reacts to Joel lying and whatever ends up happening to Joel. Whether she kills him, someone else kills him, or he's alive but Ellie just hates him for how he ended the first game. As I said, it's going to be a story of despair. It doesn't have a free reign to chuck the story from the first out of the window and write some happy days stylized drama. This is a dark, fucked up post apocalyptic world and while characters can display positive and happy emotions it's largely not what the canvas is there to do in the TLoU world. Hence politely and respectfully some people maybe need some expectations in check as the absolute majority of the sequel is probably going to be grim.

 

[old manatee]

I love the idea of Ellie growing up to be like Melissa Etheridge.

 

[Messofanego]

Didn't realise it until now that people asking for gay characters to be subtle had some homophobic connotations. "Don't have her sexuality play too much into anything, it makes me uncomfortable" kind of thing i.e. don't shove it down my throat.

Meanwhile, Nathan Drake's and hundreds of other AAA protagonist's heterosexuality plays heavily into their games LOL the double standard.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

The hell does this mean? You "design" a lesbian character with the same process as you do any other character: by doing your research and understanding the qualities you are about to imbue your character with.

Good lord this was a bad comment.

Not necessarily, no.

If you are going to design a lesbian character, and have her identity (which is one of a subculture), it needs to be approached differently.

Refer back to the original post in this thread. About homosexuality being its own unique subculture. If people want Ellie designed where her sexuality isn't one of her major defining characteristics, then it's a reflection of uncomfortable straight people. If people want Ellie to be defined by her sexuality as a major defining characteristic, then we need to acknowledge that this would require a different degree of attention and design than if her sexuality were to be of low interest to the storyline or if she were made to be straight.

 

[Volimar]

I mean, I just figure that denim is resilient and would still be wearable years after many other clothes would have worn to shreds...

 

[GlassEmpires]

Ellie should be receiving pressured to hook up with a straight guy so that her immunity could be passed on

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

god i hope it's gay. that would make me so, so happy

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

The comment edited into the OP makes a really good point. I think usually you here the "subtle" critique coming from a place of not wanting a gay character to be a stereotype, to have more to their character than just being gay. Or even for a character to be gay almost offhandedly, with the idea being to show that it's normal.

I can see how, by going the subtle route, we may not be actually getting an accurate representation of a gay character. And it that case we're not really getting to see things from a different perspective or learn something about that perspective, which is one of the main benefits of diversity in media.

 

[Neff]

Odd thing to expect from TLOU. First game was a top notch story with utterly run-of-the-mill gameplay.

Funny, I felt the opposite. I thought the story was generic clichéd wank populated by unlikeable assholes, but the atmosphere, environment design and combat were all great.

 

[xRaizen]

We're talking about the guys that portrayed Bill in a great way, why are people worried? I have faith in ND

 

[Crossing Eden]

I think both of you are in the wrong. Invius' post was irrelevant to the topic but derailed this thread because of your (& others) overreactions. Their post was completely noninflammatory and you blew it up. The second part of your post is ridiculous, we don't often have threads about heterosexual romances/orientations so of course no one says they only care about gameplay in them. And like you said, everyone hopes every game has good gameplay, so it would follow that there will be posts about it. Your post was idiotic because you're literally shitting on someone for saying they hope the game plays well on a videogame forum, even though this thread isn't the place for it. Now this thread is Invius digging themselves deeper into a hole and people continuing to dogpile them.

Yet in those rare posts about heterosexual romances no one ever feels the need to bring up that they are in for the gameplay. Again, it's almost like there's some relation with the fact that it's about LBGT representation. Just like how a slew of people suddenly just care SO much about game violence whenever the topic of sexism is brought up. It's a deflection tactic, with the implication being "I, a white hetero dude constantly being represented in media don't care, so everyone stop discussing it."

 

[Madame M]

Everyone is bisexual

Nah tho

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Hmmm, I feel that a female character being homosexual isn't as big of a 'risk' as a male character being homosexual. I remember Lesbians are like the number one fetish in America so why wouldn't people accept a Lesbian character?

In the end IF (big fat if) she romances another character, it would still be with another girl. So nobody would be 'gross' out for kissing a dude.

 

[Tagavaka]

She already is going to be a gay female lead. ND have confirmed she is the lead character for TLoU part 2. She also had a romantic interest in Left Behind. None of that is canon, it all happened and is still part of the world's history.

The bulk of what people are asking for was already on display in the first game (and for any haters, check those glorious game of the year awards), so I assume given the topic title some are just saying what next? Well, she is the lead role now rather than a secondary role from the first game.

I don't think anyone wants some ham-fisted Mass Effect sex scene for a token gesture that gay people have sex. While I'm being facetious there, yes, some games handle relationships like 14 year olds discovering sex for the first time. The games tone has been stated to be darker and the trailer inspired an Ellie who has seen some shit and is probably going partly insane. So for example is it going to be easy to fit in a Left Behind like more relaxed segment? Possibly, but Druckmann has pre warned this will be a darker game.

Given that it is a set world and is following on an already fairly dark ending to the first game there is a bit of advice for some thinking this game has some free role to be whatever they want it to be, to be brought back down to reality. Part 2 has very little chance of being a love story. It's most likely going to be a revenge story given the trailer and what Druckmann has stated. It also already does star a lead female gay character. Ellie isn't being rewritten, she's just aged and obviously we're going to find out how she reacts to Joel lying and whatever ends up happening to Joel. Whether she kills him, someone else kills him, or he's alive but Ellie just hates him for how he ended the first game. As I said, it's going to be a story of despair. It doesn't have a free reign to chuck the story from the first out of the window and write some happy days stylized drama. This is a dark, fucked up post apocalyptic world and while characters can display positive and happy emotions it's largely not what the canvas is there to do in the TLoU world. Hence politely and respectfully some people maybe need some expectations in check as the absolute majority of the sequel is probably going to be grim.

I said gay female lead because since Left Behind I have seen scores of, mostly dudes, argue that she went through a phase, that she was only romantically into Riley and not attracted to her, that it's not possible to know your sexuality that young, that she's really actually bisexual because of reasons, etc, etc.

I want them to confirm she is gay so I can stop hearing the whining and desperation to frame her as anything but.

I agree on the sex scene thing but I never expected something like that anyway, it's possible to have her in a relationship without showing any of that.

I get that it's dark and revenge themed and not a love story, I do, and I want that very much, but that doesn't mean Ellie can't be in a relationship. If Ellie and Joel are targets i'm guessing everyone they are close to are targets too, like Tommy. It would be interesting though if Ellie is in a pre-existing relationship when the game starts and that girl becomes a target too. I don't know, I just think there are a whole bunch of ways they can acknowledge it and integrate it into the game

EDIT:

I just don't think it is being written as a love story though so I'd have realistic expectations that even if there are topics of relationships it probably won't be center stage.

Unless Joel is dead out of the gate the main relationship like the first game will most likely be between "father" and "daughter", not partners. I guess that is where some say they don't want things forced and would rather a pre-existing story gets continued. It's not that ND cannot have the talent to do a good story around a romantic relationship, but that TLoU is largely an existing IP that's major focal point was between father and daughter, not lovers.

I don't disagree on partners and those kind of relationships not being center stage, it will always be Joel and Ellie because that is the heart of the story, but Ellie being in a relationship doesn't have to be a main relationship or a large focus. It can be integrated into the background like all others things that aren't Joel and Ellie

 

[zsynqx]

Odd thing to expect from TLOU. First game was a top notch story with utterly run-of-the-mill gameplay.

Funny, I felt the opposite. I thought the story was generic clichéd wank populated by unlikeable assholes, but the atmosphere, environment design and combat were all great.

You're both half right.

 

[Audioboxer]

I said gay female lead because since Left Behind I have seen scores of, mostly dudes, argue that she went through a phase, that she was only romantically into Riley and not attracted to her, that it's not possible to know your sexuality that young, that she's really actually bisexual because of reasons, etc, etc.

I want them to confirm she is gay so I can stop hearing the whining and desperation to frame her as anything but.

I agree on the sex scene thing but I never expected something like that anyway, it's possible to have her in a relationship without showing any of that.

I get that it's dark and revenge themed and not a love story, I do, and I want that very much, but that doesn't mean Ellie can't be in a relationship. If Ellie and Joel are targets i'm guessing everyone they are close to are targets too, like Tommy. It would be interesting though if Ellie is in a pre-existing relationship when the game starts and that girl becomes a target too. I don't know, I just think there are a whole bunch of ways they can acknowledge it and integrate it into the game

I just don't think it is being written as a love story though so I'd have realistic expectations that even if there are topics of relationships it probably won't be center stage. This isn't meant to sound harsh, but the game isn't a political piece looking for social points. It already done a good job within its first outing of handling various topics with maturity. Hence why I question what more are people wanting? Ellie has been given lead because it makes sense in many ways. Not just that she is older, but Joel doubled down and played his fate at the end of the first game.

Unless Joel is dead out of the gate the main relationship like the first game will most likely be between "father" and "daughter", not partners. I guess that is where some say they don't want things 'forced' and would rather a pre-existing story gets continued.

It's not that ND cannot have the talent to do a good story around a romantic relationship, but that TLoU is largely an existing IP thats major focal point was between father and daughter, not lovers. Yes Left Behind was a thing, but it was a prequel to Ellie's back story. We got a chunk of Joel's backstory right at the start of the game where he lost you know who.

I mean I can empathise you want them to confirm she is gay, but that is the epitome of writing that loses its maturity and just seems to seek to go after social points on the Internet. The way they done Left Behind was class, as was some nods throughout the main story. Not every human being likes to be in your face look at my sexual preferences. Most of us just go about our business and dating lives in private.

 

[Theanine3D]

Refer back to the original post in this thread. About homosexuality being its own unique subculture. If people want Ellie designed where her sexuality isn't one of her major defining characteristics, then it's a reflection of uncomfortable straight people. If people want Ellie to be defined by her sexuality as a major defining characteristic, then we need to acknowledge that this would require a different degree of attention and design than if her sexuality were to be of low interest to the storyline or if she were made to be straight.

I think the point is that it shouldn't be the sole defining trait. It can be one of them, but it should not be the only one. One-dimensional characters are already an epidemic in gaming. A character defined entirely by being gay is neither progressive nor daring. It's boring and regressive (you know, like the majority of straight white male characters in AAA games, whose "personalities" can often be summed up in a single sentence). Stereotypical gay characters have been in games for a long time, they are nothing new, and have always been used as the butt of cheap, low-hanging-fruit homophobic jokes. It's only just recently that developers actually started giving gay characters any depth and backstory and included them in stories as more than just comedic props.

Ultimately they just need to write characters that are like people in the real world. And gay people in the real world are not just one single thing. We are complete people just like everyone else, with thoughts, beliefs, ideas, and goals that may have nothing to do with our sexual orientation. For those who do feel their orientation defines everything about them, that's perfectly fine and it's their right to do so. But not every gay person feels or thinks that way. I sure don't. I feel insulted when I'm reduced to nothing but one single trait. I want people to see me as everything that I am, not as what they only want to see out of their personal convenience. It's dehumanizing to do the latter.

I have no doubt Naughty Dog will deliver, though. They have a good track record with gay characters so far.

We're talking about the guys that portrayed Bill in a great way, why are people worried? I have faith in ND

Exactly

 

[Hellwarden]

If they decide to make it a part of the story, cool.

How popular was that DLC by the way? I do wonder how many people who beat the first game know Ellie is gay.

 

[Frozenprince]

I think a theme or political statement works only if woven well into gameplay, hence why Paper's Please works and why Mankind Divided fell short.

Why does her being gay have to be a "theme".

It's not a fucking theme it's just her sexuality. It's just a part of her, it doesn't have to DEFINE her.

 

[Apathy]

I think the point is that it shouldn't be the sole defining trait. It can be one of them, but it should not be the only one. One-dimensional characters are already an epidemic in gaming. A character defined entirely by being gay is neither progressive nor daring. It's boring and regressive (you know, like the majority of straight white male characters in AAA games, whose "personalities" can often be summed up in a single sentence). Stereotypical gay characters have been in games for a long time, they are nothing new, and have always been used as the butt of cheap, low-hanging-fruit homophobic jokes. It's only just recently that developers actually started giving gay characters any depth and backstory and included them in stories as more than just comedic props.

Ultimately they just need to write characters that are like people in the real world. And gay people in the real world are not just one single thing. We are complete people just like everyone else, with thoughts, beliefs, ideas, and goals that may have nothing to do with our sexual orientation. For those who do feel their orientation defines everything about them, that's perfectly fine and it's their right to do so. But not every gay person feels or thinks that way. I sure don't. I feel insulted when I'm reduced to nothing but one single trait. I want people to see me as everything that I am, not as what they only want to see out of their personal convenience. It's dehumanizing to do the latter.

I have no doubt Naughty Dog will deliver, though. They have a good track record with gay characters so far.



Exactly

Basically this. I can't speak for everyone, but when I say subtle, I mean this, and I even mention it in my post. Being gay or bi should be one of Ellie's characteristics to flesh her out as a more realistic representation of a person that makes it easier to relate to her and have her story gets through to people rather than be a caricature of a gay person that doesn't do her justice as a character.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If they decide to make it a part of the story, cool.

How popular was that DLC by the way? I do wonder how many people who beat the first game know Ellie is gay.

I'm pretty sure that it was very popular. Plus you had the PS4 bundle with TLoU:R that included LB.

 

[Frozenprince]

I mean.

I don't give a shit how we get represented as long as it's not clearly trying to insult us. Because gay people are barely represented as it is. Young LGBT people finally have things in pop culture that they can look too as a piece of identity that's not porn or barely a step above porn. More inclusion no matter how it's representative is a GOOD thing.

This whole "it needs to be done right/well" argument is pointless. It can be done like that when we're on equitable standing with the heteronormative community in pop culture. Until that time, ANY representation is good.