I am post game. I was level 60 so I was able to do it. I finished Costlemark last night lol.
Actually that gauntlet is if you take the wrong stone or choose the wrong path.
Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
I am post game. I was level 60 so I was able to do it. I finished Costlemark last night lol.
Actually that gauntlet is if you take the wrong stone or choose the wrong path.
edgefusion
Member
Trying to make it through Pitioss Dungeon...I didn't realise how frustrating turning Noctis on the spot can be. Every time I try to just turn him around he immediately takes 2 or 3 steps forward and plunges off a cliff.
Thickstone
Member
Eh GAF, where is this supposed great ending?
It was OK, imo. I didn't feel attached to anything in this game storywise so it left me a little cold. It was a fine conclusion but I don't see the greatness. Could someone elaborate?
Apart from that, this game is a huge disappointment.
It was OK, imo. I didn't feel attached to anything in this game storywise so it left me a little cold. It was a fine conclusion but I don't see the greatness. Could someone elaborate?
Apart from that, this game is a huge disappointment.
There is water in insomnia.
Ramuh is the only astral you can summon in dungeons.
Yeah, that was super frustrating
A lot of us like how noctis died, we really liked the campfire scene, and most of us liked the "final fantasy" scene as well. I personally really loved seeing the sun come up after the 10 years of darkness. You just didn't get as much out of it as we did, and that's okay.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I am post game. I was level 60 so I was able to do it. I finished Costlemark last night lol.
Actually that gauntlet is if you take the wrong stone or choose the wrong path.
Point is though, unless you are going for the deep dungeon, you have nothing to gain from fighting the monsters in there. I smashed through that room 4 or 5 times before the penny-dropped that all it was, was a big fat waste of time and meds!
In hindsight it was stupidly obvious that resetting (if I ended up in there) was the quicker way to reach the boss!
Well that's fair enough. I don't think it's something that needs to be excused in the first place really; titillation is fine as a reason as any for design imo (though as with all writing there are exceptions).
Not too fond of the accent either myself, but I gotta admit it did grow on me lol
Noctis is used as a sacrifice in a cosmic game of destiny. He is just as bound as she is as neither of them have a choice in the matter and both are being used for the sake of everyone else. How is she somehow worse as a character for this?
PshycoNinja
Member
I read that quote on that same site too. It details that a character is "fridged" if what is stated above is the ONLY reason for the characters death. As it stands, Luna's death to motivate Noctis wasn't the sole reason. Hell, it wasn't even the primary reason for her death. Her actions got in the way of Ardyn's and was actively preventing his plans to come to fruition and so he killed her.
By your logic, Aerith was "fridged" because Sephiroth killed her and her death had Cloud grow as a character because of it. We know there was more than that. Her actions jeopardized Sephiroth's plan and so he had her killed.
Like I said, if you don't like her character that's one thing and I'd love to discuss that further. But Luna died because of Ardyn and Luna's actions. Noctis growing as a character is a byproduct of her death.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yes, she was.
You're focusing to much in the literal meaning of the trope and how it fits in the plot, and not the actual "fridging" when people refers when a character is killed as a plot device, and how is used.
He acts on his own will for the most part of the game, he wants to get revenge on the Empire, not because is his destiny, but his choice, is only at the end, when Bahamut appears, that he has a destiny to fullfill and he does.
He can go camping with his friends, he can choose destroy one Empire facility, to get vengeance, etc.., he has a freedom that Luna dosn't have, where she's bounded by the duty of her role and destiny, every one of her actions is to fullfill it.
... you may wanna rephrase that because you just said he was both focusing too much on the definition and not focusing on it at the same time.
It sounds like you're just arguing semantics now. What do you mean by "fridging" as a term then?
I'm legit upset this got lost in the last few pages.
Thanks jerks.
edit: Those are actually some great aerial shots of in-game Altissia.
If only I had known!!!I'm legit upset this got lost in the last few pages.
Thanks jerks.
edit: Those are actually some great aerial shots of in-game Altissia.
That is god damn hilarious and awesome. At the same time.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The definition of the trope.
"Stuffed into the Fridge"
not how "fridging" is used.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Expected is better than a forced romance.
Did we see the same story?? Because she literally has no personality other than being yet another female protagonist in a Japanese game with a "strong will," (shorthand for having no agency whatsoever), and 99.9% of her scenes involve Noctis.
I'm legit upset this got lost in the last few pages.
Thanks jerks.
edit: Those are actually some great aerial shots of in-game Altissia.
I wanna go to that castle
oh no, I got what you meant, its just that the wording was weird, which is why I suggested a rewrite. sorry
hey this implies she has 1000 scenes
I wanna go to that castle
You do though. For a speech!
Wait. So why were they both in the throne at the end? I thought they died? Was that just some afterlife thing?
Also, this game is a shame. This story could have been absolutely wonderful, but it just winds up feeling disjointed and all over the place. If stuff was properly explained and stuff it would have been great. Sigh.
Also, this game is a shame. This story could have been absolutely wonderful, but it just winds up feeling disjointed and all over the place. If stuff was properly explained and stuff it would have been great. Sigh.
PshycoNinja
Member
Your cheery picking quotes from the site. And not grabbing the full definition. Your definition is literally every character death ever. Here's what it means in more than one sentence:
Aerith and Luna do not die for the SOLE PURPOSE of affecting another character. Their deaths had larger story implications and reasons for their deaths. Character's being affected by their deaths is an obvious byproduct.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
oh no, I got what you meant, its just that the wording was weird, which is why I suggested a rewrite. sorry
I see, np.
Is not always that way, is not always used as a merely plot device and is not always used as a character motivator. And yeah, both Aeris and Luna's death provokes great afliction in the main hero character. The plot dosn't matter, what matters is the result and the intention of the writter.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
DP
Its an afterlife thing. Their "final fantasy" (I keep saying it, and it never sounds less tacky).
"The figure that lies asleep in the fantasy".
Completely agree with your second part :S
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Are we really arguing that Luna was not fridged? She's a prototypical example of fridging.
I think what Psychoninja is trying to say is that because there are reasons to kill luna more than just "make noct angry and to be antagonistic" that it doesn't fall square into the definition of fridged. Stuff like how she sets back the scrouge, how killing her will send the world to darkness, and how Ardyn wanted to kill all that had to do with the gods and the lucii, including the oracle.
Agree or disagree, idc. But there is valid reason to discuss whether this underdeveloped character was indeed fridged all things considered.
The plot reason does matter though.
It really sounds like you didn't actually play the game.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The original meaning, a meaning still valid to these days, was to name women in comic books that were killed off as a mere plot device to furthen the character arc of super heroes. In that meaning, in the meaning that actually matters, Luna is undoubtelly fridged.
It dosn't matter, to discuss if a female character is fridged or not.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yeah. I dunno what to say. I can keep reprating myself, but we have a clear difference of opinion. Let's move on
I mean, if we accept Psycho's viewing of fridged, couldn't we say Mufasa was fridged in The Lion King? Which if so, would then lead me to ask if being fridged is really a bad thing.
She was already resolute in what she was doing and had been since she was young from what we can gather. Everything she did was by her own accord. Her own brother even tried to disuade her from it which shows she had choice in the matter.
The main difference with Noctis was that he was in the dark in regards to what was happening. His goal of vengeance wasn't out of line with his destiny and in fact took him closer to it. When he ultimately wasn't ready for it, Bahamut essentially put Noctis into a "prison" until he could come to terms with his destiny. He never was given a choice. Throughout the game he's always told about his duty that he must fulfill, regardless of his own feelings.
Destiny is about the destination, not the journey by which you arrive there. Luna had her own journey which we didn't get to see unfortunately.
Even by those terms, she wasn't fridged. She was getting in the way of Ardyn's plans so he killed her. Look at it this way; if she had been completely unrelated to Noctis, would he have still done it? I would say so yes. Would you?
I know what it is and its definition, don't get me wrong.
but it can also be said that saying "female character dies, main male character is affected, thus fridging" can be disingenuous. Killing luna is definitely more than just character arc fodder, considering killing her fast tracks the starscourge and fucks over humanity for 10 years.
No no no.
Look at this scene:
That look of determination. Look at how strong she is.
TSUYOI DESU NE.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, She's got something for Noctis and that's it. When she gave it to him, she died.
SkylineRKR
Member
Wouldn't she die anyway? It seems she didn't die by Ardyn's hands but her body deteriorating from calling the Astrals.
He stabs her and then is like 'no wait, I let you give it to him'. That scene was put in to make the player hate Ardyn. But badly done. Not nearly as good as Sephiroth x Aerith. Her dying by summoning too much would have less impact.
He stabs her and then is like 'no wait, I let you give it to him'. That scene was put in to make the player hate Ardyn. But badly done. Not nearly as good as Sephiroth x Aerith. Her dying by summoning too much would have less impact.
No no no.
Look at this scene:
That look of determination. Look at how strong she is.
TSUYOI DESU NE.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, She's got something for Noctis and that's it. When she gave it to him, she died.
probably gave him a wii u
Does Cup Noodle have more ''character development'' and lines dedicated to it overall than Iedolas and Verstael ?(the Niflheim main guys)
Also,While I really appreciate the food models in this game,I find it strange that they would go on to model a hundred different photo-realistic food model when the game is missing critical aspects.
I mean that really says something about the direction of the game.They never got their priorities straight.
Also,While I really appreciate the food models in this game,I find it strange that they would go on to model a hundred different photo-realistic food model when the game is missing critical aspects.
I mean that really says something about the direction of the game.They never got their priorities straight.
Iris is best girl
That summon thing would be cool, but I can't imagine how they would implement it without both cheapening the summon (since there are so few) and severely nerfing it too.
PshycoNinja
Member
I really think you're moving the goal posts here and not really understanding the "fidged" term or trope as detailed on said site. But as I said before, that is totally your poragitive. I just happen to disagree with it. At "worst" Aerith and Luna fall more under the Lost Lenore trope.
Thank you. This is what I am getting at. The definition of a "fridged" character is that they are killed off or harmed for the sole purpose of motivating the main character. But both characters deaths, while affecting the main characters and parties of both games, had more implications going into them. Sephiroth killed Aerith because she would've continue to foil his plan, his primary concern was to stop her from what she was doing. Cloud being affected by it was only icing on the cake for him. A similar situation occurs with Luna.
By RelaxedMuscles logic, most characters in FF are fridged characters because they motivate the main character(s) to press forward and grow. Palom and Porom, Cid, Tella, Tidus, Gabranth, other Cids (Cids die a lot huh?), and Haurchefant. And that is something I just don't agree with.
I wish summons were a slow bar that filled up in battle, but required all the amiger bar and all MP to use. If the damage was nerfed a lil, it would have been a much better system imo. "It takes a lot out of me" would be more appropriate of a saying after one.
I agree with your last 2 statements lol
orthodoxy1095
Banned
That seems to miss the point of what Gail Simone was cataloging back in 1999.
The problem with Luna's death is the complete context around it. There is no buildup of her character, she has no strong character arc, her personality seems to ultimately revolve around devotion to the main male lead, she's a MacGuffin all the way till Altissa, and then finally she's killed off in a scene that lacks any meaningful emotion. She is an empty shell of a "character" whose death is just a plot device to enrage Noct and set the motions of the rest of the plot forward.
That seems like fridging to me. The point that Gail Simone was making when she first started that website in 1999 is that this issue of killing off characters as plot devices and in brutal ways seems to be disproportionately used on female characters (mothers, wives, daughters, grandmothers, love interests, etc) more than on their male parallels.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
No, is not really.
The writting team used Luna's death to further the main hero story arc. Whatever explanation you may give it, in terms of plot, dosn't change that fact. And is the fact that matters when discussing the "women in refrigerators" trope.
The original "Women in refrigerator" trope, was created to show, how heroines, or females deaths are often used as plot devices. Palom and Porom dosn't fit it, Luna does and Aeris too.
I presumed that since they were dead, it was like a momentary dream and when they fell asleep they moved into oblivion.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I don't really care what we call it. Luna was a barely there character with close to 0 personality, almost no screen time, and the game tries to make a huge deal about her death despite never earning it. Tabata is terrible at this. His writing seems to always act like death is something that just has to happen to make a story good and never makes it meaningful. Even Noctis sacrifice feels forced since Bahamut just tells him "oh yea you have to die". Still leagues better than Luna
Noct was broken if anything. The only thing that made him continue forward was his friends pushing him and the duty he had to fulfill.
His reaction to it was on the lowest of the priority list in regards to the plot as well as how Ardyn's plans. A badly developed character (or one that isn't at all in this case) being killed off doesn't automatically make it fridging just because there happen to be people who care about said character.
Also I'm not sure how much this actually matters but, she got stabbed. I'd hardly call that brutal. It's the most basic way you can kill somebody.
PshycoNinja
Member
Yeah. I dunno what to say. I can keep reprating myself, but we have a clear difference of opinion. Let's move on
I mean, if we accept Psycho's viewing of fridged, couldn't we say Mufasa was fridged in The Lion King? Which if so, would then lead me to ask if being fridged is really a bad thing.
My definition of "fridged" is a character that strictly dies to motivate the main character and has no bearing on the plot or story otherwise, as defined by the site I linked earlier. It's not even my definition, I am just going by what is said to be the definition by Gail Simone.
huh... just realizing how Noct died a virgin makes the ending kinda sadder... ya know?
Tabata didn't write the game.
Nor did he cut the older trilogy into what we got.
Nor did he write the original script.
Nor did he do scenario design.
ghost sex, one way or the other it happened
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Considering is basically the only character that gets killed on screen, is telling.
And latter her dead body was hanging in a twisted way as a trophy. Brutal, I would say.
Lucklily, you don't get to define those things. Fridging may have a more wide definition, but it also encompasses the Gail Simone original "Women in refrigerators" trope.
Just finished the story an hour ago and I have a few questions.
Is there a go-to post that explains the clusterfuck of a "story", especially the last third?
Why the fuck was the emperor suddenly a daemon and all we got was a short dialog line mentioning the fact?
Why was there a 10 year gap and why was it not explained? Did I space out and miss something here?
Why couldn't they show badass daemon hunter Iris and older Cidney?
What exactly was Ardyn's deal? I got the gist of it but would have liked a little more info.
Why did Ninjas continuously cut a shit ton of onions during the last strech of the story? Seriously. By the end of the game I was majorly invested in the guys' friendship. Broke my fucking heart to see them at the camp for the last time and then seeing the empty chairs afterwards. Stand by me was also a perfect fit for the credits. Showing the pictures of their adventure was a gut punch on top...
Am I the only one who took a close up of Cidney into the throne room at the end? That final scene with Luna was fucking hilarious with that picture!
Great transition from the final scene into the FFXV logo.
All in all this is a great game that suffered from the long dev time and transition into something new. The story and execution of it felt like a jigsaw puzzle. The first half was too open with too little story and the second half could have used a little more openness between the chapters.
It also felt pretty weird that there was almost no animosity between the crew and the empire guys whenever important characters met. They helped each other more times than they fought against each other.
My three major disappointments are the battle system, the story and especially the lack of different biomes.
The game was always pitched as a road trip but it feels like they spent most of their time driving around a small region. I was hoping the Duscae biome would be one of many but the surrounding regions looked like slight variations of it.
Story wise I thought it was pretty sad that most major plot points were losses. Everyone fucking died. I would have really liked a few more happy moments. The guys had some fun moments but that was never really story related.
Is there a go-to post that explains the clusterfuck of a "story", especially the last third?
Why the fuck was the emperor suddenly a daemon and all we got was a short dialog line mentioning the fact?
Why was there a 10 year gap and why was it not explained? Did I space out and miss something here?
Why couldn't they show badass daemon hunter Iris and older Cidney?
What exactly was Ardyn's deal? I got the gist of it but would have liked a little more info.
Why did Ninjas continuously cut a shit ton of onions during the last strech of the story? Seriously. By the end of the game I was majorly invested in the guys' friendship. Broke my fucking heart to see them at the camp for the last time and then seeing the empty chairs afterwards. Stand by me was also a perfect fit for the credits. Showing the pictures of their adventure was a gut punch on top...
Am I the only one who took a close up of Cidney into the throne room at the end? That final scene with Luna was fucking hilarious with that picture!
Great transition from the final scene into the FFXV logo.
All in all this is a great game that suffered from the long dev time and transition into something new. The story and execution of it felt like a jigsaw puzzle. The first half was too open with too little story and the second half could have used a little more openness between the chapters.
It also felt pretty weird that there was almost no animosity between the crew and the empire guys whenever important characters met. They helped each other more times than they fought against each other.
My three major disappointments are the battle system, the story and especially the lack of different biomes.
The game was always pitched as a road trip but it feels like they spent most of their time driving around a small region. I was hoping the Duscae biome would be one of many but the surrounding regions looked like slight variations of it.
Story wise I thought it was pretty sad that most major plot points were losses. Everyone fucking died. I would have really liked a few more happy moments. The guys had some fun moments but that was never really story related.
Every single emotional scene in this game is like this :
HERE PLEASE BE EMOTIONALLY MOVED,EVERY1 DIES AT THE END TO SAVE THE WARLD.SOB.SOB.DYING IS SAD & BAD.
Text book definition of cheap shots at the player.None of it is earned & none of it needed to happen.
They could've started the game with this ending and it would have had the same effect.
The game should've had the guts to maintain its happy go lucky nature and actually deliver some tonal consistency.I would've appreciated that more.
HERE PLEASE BE EMOTIONALLY MOVED,EVERY1 DIES AT THE END TO SAVE THE WARLD.SOB.SOB.DYING IS SAD & BAD.
Text book definition of cheap shots at the player.None of it is earned & none of it needed to happen.
They could've started the game with this ending and it would have had the same effect.
The game should've had the guts to maintain its happy go lucky nature and actually deliver some tonal consistency.I would've appreciated that more.
As was Regis, the Emperor, and even bafflingly enough, Nyx.
All of which get killed on screen. Noctis himself, gets killed on screen, albeit willingly, but in a brutal manner. Death is everywhere in this game. Luna's was hardly special.
YUUUUUUP
This was probably the biggest issue I had with the ending and really... a lot of the game. Key events which could've and should've held actual meaning had all the impact of a fart in the wind... and it sucks. I genuinely wanted to feel something in those moments. It all just felt so arbitrary though.
Perhaps I'm being hyperbolic, but this game feels like a poster child for "Becuz reasons".